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the_shootist

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1633703661551.png
 

Ensoniq

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No, it's because the are making Facebook pay for links to external news content owned by someone else. It's not censorship, they are not being prevented, they just don't want to pay for content.

Is it right? I don't think so, but that is another argument.

Can I call it soft censorship?

They certainly didn’t add a fee to encourage free and open communication;)
 

Ensoniq

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They pinched the Cossack

 

Zed

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Can I call it soft censorship?

They certainly didn’t add a fee to encourage free and open communication;)

They applied it to google as well, I don't know the limits of it but it isn't suppressing the info at all. Facebook chose to react with a ban, I guess because, I think, Facebook actually imports part of the content which is what they don't like. Google still delivers Aussie News links, so they choose not to shut it down. This is on Facebook more than anything else.
 

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I'm not saying I think it is good policy, but it's an argument over copyright and not censorship.
 

Zed

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They pinched the Cossack


Yeah, it seems to be a private war with a cop that is making no sense. The police are just embarrassing themselves here. It will be interesting to see if some action is eventually taken against the police, it certainly looks like harassment. I'm not even sure what he is supposed to have done!
 

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We must have government as the arbiter of speech

Mind your own business you small minded wanker

Yeah I dunno about this one, I can see problem with anonymity leading to people stepping outside the limits of free speech and saying things that would normally see them sued. On the other hand if you are saying things that the government doesn't like it's like having a target on your back.

I think we need to know who is saying what but I think that we need to put way stronger protections in place for the individuals. It looks to me like the Cossack shouldn't be able to be targeted like he is.

Can of worms IMO. Needs a lot of debate.

... but I can't imagine this place working if we all had to be officially ID'd
 

Bigfoot

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They pinched the Cossack


I feel for the Cossack and his wife, but the Cossack will pinch them back. This will only generate more attention and negative attitudes towards the tyranny of the NSW police. People are probably already waiting for post-jail interviews.
 

Ensoniq

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Yeah I dunno about this one, I can see problem with anonymity leading to people stepping outside the limits of free speech and saying things that would normally see them sued. On the other hand if you are saying things that the government doesn't like it's like having a target on your back.

I think we need to know who is saying what but I think that we need to put way stronger protections in place for the individuals. It looks to me like the Cossack shouldn't be able to be targeted like he is.

Can of worms IMO. Needs a lot of debate.

... but I can't imagine this place working if we all had to be officially ID'd

The concept of free speech isn’t to protect speech that agreeable

Should be a tort if libel or arrest if truly incitement

There’s no way a government can be trusted with the task of referee. This way lies the road to hell
 

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The concept of free speech isn’t to protect speech that agreeable

Nobody ever suggested that was the case.

Should be a tort if libel or arrest if truly incitement

Which is the point being made, if you don't know who is slandering you it is hard find out. Anonymity breeds cowards and invites slander etc which isn't freedom of speech.

There’s no way a government can be trusted with the task of referee. This way lies the road to hell

That depends on the way that the law is framed.
 

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One of the issues here is that most of the law written around free speech, slander, liable etc was framed with no consideration for mass use of social media that allows anonymity. The law needs to catch up with technology. It all needs to be reconsidered. I don't know what the answer is, but there has to be a better balance.
 

chieftain

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When seasoned cops with a metric fuckton of experience are questioning the validity and legitimacy of the CHO's (and by corollary Dan's) decrees... there are systemic and fundamental flaws with the institution of government in this state and possibly the nation. She is one of hundreds.

If there are positives to take away from the rampant criminality of those "elected" to represent the people, it's that their actions exposed these fundamental flaws in the system.
 

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When seasoned cops with a metric fuckton of experience are questioning the validity and legitimacy of the CHO's (and by corollary Dan's) decrees... there are systemic and fundamental flaws with the institution of government in this state and possibly the nation. She is one of hundreds.

Yes... I can see our laws being revised in due course.
 

chieftain

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This needs to go beyond legislation Zed, systemic change needs to occur to prevent the sort of catastrophe caused by governments the nation over.

The system allows legislation like this to get passed:


123AA Immunity in relation to certain assistance

(3) Each of the following is a protected person:
(a) a member of the Defence Force;
(b) an APS employee in the Department;
(c) a person authorised under subsection (4) to perform duties in
respect of the provision of assistance mentioned in
subsection (1).
(4) The Chief of the Defence Force, or the Secretary, may, in writing,
authorise a person, or each person in a class of persons, to perform
duties in respect of the provision of assistance mentioned in
subsection (1), if the person, or each person in the class of persons,
is any of the following:
(a) an APS employee or other employee of the Commonwealth
or a Commonwealth authority or agency;
(b) a member of the naval, military or air force of a foreign
country, or a member of a foreign police force (however
described).

The same system and people can't be counted on to right the wrongs of psychopaths.
 
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dacrunch

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One of the issues here is that most of the law written around free speech, slander, liable etc was framed with no consideration for mass use of social media that allows anonymity. The law needs to catch up with technology. It all needs to be reconsidered. I don't know what the answer is, but there has to be a better balance.
uh, that's "libel"... just saying...

... and I noticed that the "brave whistleblower policewoman" used the "wrong words" when she was searching for the "appropriate ones"... a couple times...
 

dacrunch

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The moral of the story is never argue with an Irish immigrant.


He should have added the "health benefits of vitamin D from sunlight against Covid" too, while he was at it... and that they were attempting to prevent him from "taking his medicine".... and "endangering his health"...
 

Joe King

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There’s no way a government can be trusted with the task of referee. This way lies the road to hell

That depends on the way that the law is framed.
No matter how it's framed, the tyrannical in gov will always find a way to pervert the best of intentions.
 

Ensoniq

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No matter how it's framed, the tyrannical in gov will always find a way to pervert the best of intentions.

Exactly

They’ve got their nose into everything and we don’t need to passively let them get further into our business

You’ve got Don (the dumbest man on Tv) Lemon, making the same argument that gov needs to prevent people from lying on social media.

More gov means less freedom
 
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Zed

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uh, that's "libel"... just saying...

... and I noticed that the "brave whistleblower policewoman" used the "wrong words" when she was searching for the "appropriate ones"... a couple times...

Ya, speech to text and bad proof reading. I get some hysterical output some times. Often it gets it right then alters the whole sentence based on some algo. Often it is foul, makes me wonder what Google is picking up out there in the wild.
 

Zed

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No matter how it's framed, the tyrannical in gov will always find a way to pervert the best of intentions.
Yet you built a nation on it. We are not that bad yet.
 

Zed

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Exactly

They’ve got their nose into everything and we don’t need to passively let them get further into our business

You’ve got Don (the dumbest man on Tv) Lemon, making the same argument that gov needs to prevent people from lying on social media.

More gov means less freedom

He isn't talking about lying.
 

Ensoniq

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He isn't talking about lying.

who is he?
Don Lemon is absolutely talking about government monitoring and playing the role as speech arbiter. I heard him interviewed leading the charge that anonymity on the net let’s people lie and we can have that. We in the media/government will decide what’s true and hold you accountable.

your guy hasn't gone that far yet, give him time. It all goes to the same endpoint

we‘ve got your unapproved Facebook post right here!!!

Were you out of your house with an anti government opinion???

 

DodgebyDave

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Zed

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This needs to go beyond legislation Zed, systemic change needs to occur to prevent the sort of catastrophe caused by governments the nation over.

It's a system of laws isn't it? I mean that and the desire to live by them is all we actually have as a nation.

... but yes, I think it needs to be a pretty deep dive on how this works in future.
 

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who is he?

Morrison, the guy in the original video post that kicked this off.

Don Lemon is absolutely talking about government monitoring and playing the role as speech arbiter. I heard him interviewed leading the charge that anonymity on the net let’s people lie and we can have that. We in the media/government will decide what’s true and hold you accountable.

Don is an idiot, it's unenforceable.

your guy hasn't gone that far yet, give him time. It all goes to the same endpoint

That's your opinion. Morrison is on our right, if he wants to be reelected I doubt he will try and go anywhere near that far. We have no idea what is proposed yet. They have simply expressed a frustration that social media has allowed things that would, in any other medium, see you prosecuted to the full extent of the law. That isn't right.

we‘ve got your unapproved Facebook post right here!!!

Were you out of your house with an anti government opinion???

In our country that stuff has been specific to organizing protests against health orders under a state of emergency. It's VERY narrow so you are drawing a very long bow there.

Not that I think it has been handled well by the government.

I don't think this is the thin end of the wedge I think it is more of a wake up call to which there is already a significant reaction developing.

The media picture you are getting is pretty distorted, keep that in mind. This hasn't been wide spread Stazi like behavior but there have been a number of really badly handled cases. This is all pretty new really so many mistakes have been made, I can see a tighter pandemic response mechanism being put in place over the next few years once we have had time to understand the mistakes. Personally I want to see the TGA pulled through a hedge backwards. :-)
 

Zed

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They’ve got their nose into everything and we don’t need to passively let them get further into our business

Yes and if the pandemic has done anything it has really pushed that home to many people. There will be a response all over the world, these things are cyclical... feedback loops etc.

Lets see what comes of it before we get too suicidal.
 

Joe King

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They have simply expressed a frustration that social media has allowed things that would, in any other medium, see you prosecuted to the full extent of the law. That isn't right.
Libel and slander laws are already enforced on the internet. Nothing more than that is needed.
 

Joe King

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In our country that stuff has been specific to organizing protests against health orders under a state of emergency. It's VERY narrow so you are drawing a very long bow there.
In other words, you have no way to redrees your grievances of government. If the gov represents the People, then they have to have the Right to protest anything the gov says or does.
 

chieftain

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^ About as much capabilities of redress as Americans do against outfits like the CDC and the alphabet gangs.
 

Joe King

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^ About as much capabilities of redress as Americans do against outfits like the CDC and the alphabet gangs.
At least they aren't going to peoples doors wanting to arrest them for posting a pic to the internet.
 

Zed

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Libel and slander laws are already enforced on the internet. Nothing more than that is needed.

You need to know who is doing it... don't cha?