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Bitcoin Chart Fractal. $5000?

Joe King

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Last I'd checked, it seemed he was still unable to claim those coins. As a result he has inadvertently increased the value of everyone else's bitcoins by lowering the number of coins that will ever circulate...by two.
He held his key so tightly, no one can get his btc. Not even him it seems.
 

Flight2gold

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What, he didn't memorize his key, address and password? :))
 

goldielox1

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I'm not "pumping" anything. If you want cryptos, get some. If you don't, then don't get some.
....and I certainly haven't told anyone to go all in. All I've done is answer questions and state how I feel about it, but you seem to take issue with any that show btc in any type of positive light. Why? Is it just sour grapes, or what? It sure comes across that way.
Well considering probably 80% of your posts are pumping bitcoin, how is that not pumping?

Again, why is it only pumpers like you are allowed to post. Those realists that point out the facts are seen as "sour grapes"? Ridiculous, but I'd expect nothing less from you.
 

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To say nothing of the fact that if they hold and don't panic, a buyer at $6500 has, imo, a better chance of breaking even or booking some gains then sustaining further losses.
Silly of course a bitcoin pumper believes it's perpetually going up. Did you really need to point this out as if it were some amazing revelation?
 

Joe King

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Well considering probably 80% of your posts are pumping bitcoin, how is that not pumping?
How so? I haven't pushed it on anyone. If people want in, they can. If not, that's fine by me too. Being positive about something is not pumping.

Again, why is it only pumpers like you are allowed to post.
Again, not a pumper. Just someone with a good experience.
....and you can post too. It's just that you come across as though you are hoping that it will fail so that anyone already in will learn a lesson.

Those realists that point out the facts are seen as "sour grapes"? Ridiculous, but I'd expect nothing less from you.
Well, that's how you come across in many of your posts on the subject. Or is it that you secretly fear it being widely adopted, thereby forcing you to participate too? Kinda like how the gov forces ya to deal in dollars and then taxes ya for the privilege?
 

goldielox1

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How so? I haven't pushed it on anyone. If people want in, they can. If not, that's fine by me too. Being positive about something is not pumping.

Again, not a pumper. Just someone with a good experience.
....and you can post too. It's just that you come across as though you are hoping that it will fail so that anyone already in will learn a lesson.
What is your definition of a pumper than?
 

Joe King

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What is your definition of a pumper than?
Someone who is making exaggerated claims in an attempt to actively sell it. I'm not sellin' it and I don't care whether or not you buy any. So why do you care so much if other people do buy it? Have you got something you'd prefer to sell to them?
 

solarion

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Silly of course a bitcoin pumper believes it's perpetually going up. Did you really need to point this out as if it were some amazing revelation?
lol ...and you seemed so concerned about those poor suckers at the time. Guess it had less to do with worrying about investors losing currency and more to do with your cheering that bitcoin was correcting. BTW I routinely make posts suggesting that bitcoin is ahead of itself and that I'm taking some profits...in the form of PMs, but hey, don't let my actual post history interrupt your narrative.

I guarantee you a bunch of suckers are down big in the 20+% drop in the last 4 days. Not everyone got in at $1000. A ton of suckers listened to pumpers like Joe and Solarian and got in at $6500+. Who do you think is on the other side of the trade when there is a transaction done at any price (hint: a seller AND a buyer)
 

Joe King

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BTW I routinely make posts suggesting that bitcoin is ahead of itself and that I'm taking some profits..
He thinks that by doing that, you're ripping people off.
....but he'll do the same when Au does its Moon shot too. Ie: try to sell to someone who'll pay more for it than he did. Ie: he'll count on its extrinsic value. Same as people do with btc.
 

goldielox1

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Someone who is making exaggerated claims in an attempt to actively sell it. I'm not sellin' it and I don't care whether or not you buy any. So why do you care so much if other people do buy it? Have you got something you'd prefer to sell to them?
Why would a pumper sell something before all the suckers hop on board? Go on a stock forum and look at all the "pumpers". None of them are going to sell until it makes a move (and they think there pumping is making a difference --- usually micro investors with like $100 invested I might add but think they're warren buffets).
 

goldielox1

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He thinks that by doing that, you're ripping people off.
....but he'll do the same when Au does its Moon shot too. Ie: try to sell to someone who'll pay more for it than he did. Ie: he'll count on its extrinsic value. Same as people do with btc.
Again another post that shows you don't know what money is. Why would I "sell" money?
 

Joe King

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Why would a pumper sell something before all the suckers hop on board? Go on a stock forum and look at all the "pumpers". None of them are going to sell until it makes a move (and they think there pumping is making a difference --- usually micro investors with like $100 invested I might add but think they're warren buffets).
A pumper looks to build demand in order to sell in to that demand.

It'd be like buying truck loads of Ag in 2000 and then pitchin' it hard from 2007-2011 so that it could be sold all the up to $49. That's what pumpers do.


Again another post that shows you don't know what money is. Why would I "sell" money?
What's the point of holding Au if not to be able to access the wealth it represents at some point in the future? Or do you plan on dying with it and leaving it to heirs that will, in most cases, immediately sell it for cash?

If you never plan on selling, what are you going to do with it? Make little figurines out of your gold? Or make gold foil? Or maybe just use the bars for door stops? That's what I use mine for. Works really good and if you paint them grey, you can tell people they are blocks of lead. That way no one will steal them.
...and if you really wanna thwart the thieves, buy a safe, but keep it full of bricks. That way the burglars will steal that and leave your "door stops" alone.
 
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A 'bit coin' is made of what again? bits? Backed by bits?

Ok, back to the doghouse. This is as much normal as I can handle in one day..
It's backed by math and energy and I trust so much more in math than any central bank or private bank. Thought you were a bit open minded :p
 
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Not clubbing down or any reality check! I am happy for all the cryptocurrency holders including a friend of mine who supposedly made more than 100 million us dollars in bitcoins. Have to agree with you that Bitcoin is the grand daddy of it all. The momentum is definitely on its side.

However what is block chain technology. If we on this forum are not convinced by some promise stored in some computer server outside of this country to be a store of value? many of us here would not invest in paper gold nor store our assets in some Perth mint!
This site should use https correctly at least to use some of the same technology that bitcoin is based on.

Secondly, the promise that only a certain finite amount of bit coins will be produced and that it will be increasing hard to mine newer bit coins? The amount of bit coins is far less than the population demand for it to be a widely accepted currency, as an exchange medium. In other words unlike the debt bubble this one has no elasticity and how do you address that problem
Just read the bitcoin whitepaper, very simple to understand. Bitcoins are dividable by 100.000.000 and more decimals can be introduced without changing the max amount. It do not get necessarily harder to mine bitcoins, that depends on the competition among miners, but the reward for finding new blocks get halved each 4th year. Now it's 12.5BTC per block + transactions fees.

Third as long as the USA and China don't see eye to eye with each other, bit coin speculation will go on. One fine morning if all this G20 /IMF/BIS or whatever Cabal and their handlers like Jamie Dimon make cryptocurrency transaction illegal except the ones called blakes fine diamonds issued by Goldy Saky

Full disclosure. Bought some lite coins in October 2017
By the way it's spelled bitcoin. You really dont understand computers, network, math and cryptology. Dont you think the G20 would have closed down the darknet if they could by now? They can't. You cant ban math, even in North Korea.
 

smilershouse

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Whatever goldie.

BTC profit past 11 weeks 130% gain.....................Ag profits past 10 years a measly 2%. The real casino is with the SLV/GLD derivatives exchanges. Day trading and paper PM' prices only. Merely profits for a notional value. As I have pointed out, one fine day PM's will shine again. Until that day the economy will be dictated by a digital entry, as with BTC is today.

As with you, I am also hoping for a stampede in the PM's when everything else is falling apart. Until that time, BTC has the massive edge on profit potential. I woke up to BTC at its inception. Sadly I continued to believe everyone else's opinion and evaluations. In denial, I decided to finally invest in BTC in Aug this years and paid heavily for the price of delay.


20K invested in Ag late 2007 made a just 4k profit 10 years later. 20K investment into BTC 2009 would now be worth a net 3 billion. Cannot argue with the math :-) .


Nuff said.

SH
 
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goldielox1

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Whatever goldie.

BTC profit past 11 weeks 130% gain.....................Ag profits past 10 years a measly 2%. The real casino is with the SLV/GLD derivatives exchanges. Day trading and paper PM' prices only. Merely profits for a notional value. As I have pointed out, one fine day PM's will shine again. Until that day the economy will be dictated by a digital entry, as with BTC is today.

As with you, I am also hoping for a stampede in the PM's when everything else is falling apart. Until that time, BTC has the massive edge on profit potential. I woke up to BTC at its inception. Sadly I continued to believe everyone else's opinion and evaluations. In denial, I decided to finally invest in BTC in Aug this years and paid heavily for the price of delay.


20K invested in Ag late 2007 made a just 4k profit 10 years later. 20K investment into BTC 2009 would now be worth a net 3 billion. Cannot argue with the math :-) .


Nuff said.

SH
Yes you could have also lost it all. You could have also bet on the horse races or gone to Vegas or bought a lottery ticket and lucked out as well. If you like gambling then knock yourself out. btc could be $1 billion next year or it could be $0. No one can argue either is wrong since it has no intrinsic value and is all based on the greater fool principle.
 

Joe King

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btc could be $1 billion next year or it could be $0. No one can argue either is wrong
We can argue today which one is, and for the foreseeable future, too.

since it has no intrinsic value and is all based on the greater fool principle.
Seeing as how you feel that intrinsic value seems to be the most important part of owning something, how do you measure the intrinsic value of your gold?
As in, what exactly is it that gives it this intrinsic value that you say is so important to have?
....and don't get me wrong, intrinsic value in anything is a good thing IMHO, so I'm not saying that a given items intrinsic value is worthless or anything. Just asking what it is that gives gold its intrinsic value.
 

smilershouse

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Efficacy as a medium of exchange – Gold is a universal form of money which cannot be manufactured. Because it is immune from inflation, it's an ecxellent store of wealth.

Oh....And women love it!
Maybe women do, although I have to disagree with PM's monitoring inflation and holding CB's to account. With the cosy relationship existing between Goob and CB's to keep this debt based economy alive, gold has been consistently manipulated to the downside since Nixon , Ag even more so, as a primitive action to hide the insane cost of the Vietnam war. Just look at the national debts across the board with endless money printing, to finance endless wars, leftist social experiments and welfare that also allow the big boyz to cream off the top and park their ill gotten gains into off shore bank accounts ?. The USD has been printed into oblivion,- losing 95% of its value in less than a century, the insane level of debt to GPD is beyond ridiculous. And yet, gold and silver as forms of money, traded with derivatives on the world exchanges have not kept up with the inflationary printing presses and egged on by stupid levels of low IR.

Satoshi realised something had to be done to avert the big boys stranglehold on all forms of the economy. BTC was born as an idea to allow the Joe blows and Joanne Public's to become involved in a market that would eventually pose a serious challenge to oligarchs that, up until recently have controlled the economy from ivory towers. The Big boyz of the finance industry and Goobs are now looking at ways to exploit the current $US312,411,040,043 market cap of the cryptos. Both are seeking to control it, to tax it, to regulate it so that the status quo remains intact. In fact some big boyz and captains of industry are now looking at ways to utilise the blockchain tech in the form of fintech. Some have already incorporated DLT as a form of settlement. just 8 years ago no one was bothered by it, everyone, myself included could not see the value in something that could not be touched or valued. When cash becomes obsolete 5 trillion dollars that is floating around in the economy will enter the crypto markets. Many ICO's will fail, however some will continue the thrive and as more and more countries accept BTC as payment, the old cash economy will become redundant and obsolete. BTC is taking away the lucrative manipulative powers from the financial oligarchs. And not before time. No wonder hacks like Jamie Dimon are worried, calling BTC a fraud. The pot calling the kettle black. Let us leave the antics of JPM for another time.

SH
 

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The USD has been printed into oblivion,- losing 95% of its value in less than a century, the insane level of debt to GPD is beyond ridiculous. And yet, gold and silver as forms of money, traded with derivatives on the world exchanges have not kept up with the inflationary printing presses and egged on by stupid levels of low IR...
Your frustration and outrage is shared by many. That gold (and silver) "have not kept up with the inflationary printing presses" is purely incidental. The intrinsic value of gold is not influenced by commodity trading. Sure, the price is affected by the markets, but not it's value. In a few years, the "cap" on bitcoins might be raised. If/when this happens, the price will go down, and they could lose value. I personally think that Bitcoin is already entering it's bubble phase.

Gold and silver will ALWAYS hold their value because the supply cannot be manipulated - they cannot be printed or manufactured. PMs will always be a low-risk asset for preserving wealth. Which is a part of their intrinsic value (imo).
 

smilershouse

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Your frustration and outrage is shared by many. That gold (and silver) "have not kept up with the inflationary printing presses" is purely incidental. The intrinsic value of gold is not influenced by commodity trading. Sure, the price is affected by the markets, but not it's value. In a few years, the "cap" on bitcoins might be raised. If/when this happens, the price will go down, and they could lose value. I personally think that Bitcoin is already entering it's bubble phase.

Gold and silver will ALWAYS hold their value because the supply cannot be manipulated - they cannot be printed or manufactured. PMs will always be a low-risk asset for preserving wealth. Which is a part of their intrinsic value (imo).

I wholeheartedly agree with you chief,

I am not a BTC advocate, moreover am using its platform to increase holdings, primarily because it is a vehicle to make profits a lot quicker and heavier than the cartel, oligarchical controlled PM markets and its monetary commerce. As pointed out PM's will have their day in the sunshine that is for sure. I like many others here hope that when the total market cap of the cryptos exceeds 5 trillion, rumours of an EMP etc will have this cash flooding into the ever tighter market of physical bullion. However, whilst sitting on PMs for a 4% profit over 10 years, have more than doubled my investment in a matter of 3 months in the crypto space. The world today is demanding phenomenal returns, and 7% per annum is now regarded as chicken feed, and BTC has trashed most HFTS on the ASX. Personally, I feel there is 5-10 years of massive gains ahead before the world and its tech system descends into chaos and we revert back to Gold and Silver. What will happen then is anyones guess, yet will surmise that at that time, PM's will be so scarce, people will convert clumsy assets that grow with inept CB intervention into something more liquid and manageable. Sadly there will not be enough to go around unless an ounce of gold is re-pegged to the USD at 50000-100000. And that figure is based on the current scheme of things. If the western economies maintain their frivolous spending habits, I see no reason why, in the event of a 200 trillion debt pile, gold cannot be 1 million USD a ounce, or even more than that on the free markets.

SH
 

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Seeing as how you feel that intrinsic value seems to be the most important part of owning something, how do you measure the intrinsic value of your gold?
Gold is money but it also functions as a commodity. The commodity aspect assures that it will always have an intrinsic value. It's pretty simple. The intrinsic value would be the marginal cost which is what it costs to mine the amount demanded over current available supply. Of course if there's a panic, the more difficult mines to scour will be the ones setting the price floor (intrinsic value) if even they can keep up with demand. Now I'm talking strictly about the intrinsic value, in the event of a panic, the value could go parabolic where the overall value far exceeds the intrinsic value.
 

Joe King

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The commodity aspect assures that it will always have an intrinsic value.
The commodity aspect is its extrinsic value. Ie: the valuation that is determined externally to the thing itself. It's intrinsic value would be the value of what the metal itself could be used for. Its industrial uses, for example. Doing nothing with it other than holding onto it in the hopes someone will pay you more for it later, is called relying on its extrinsic value.
 
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In a few years, the "cap" on bitcoins might be raised. If/when this happens, the price will go down, and they could lose value. I personally think that Bitcoin is already entering it's bubble phase.
May I ask how you think this cap would be raised? Who do you think decides that?
 

Nomis Elpmis

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An article just came out that said around 4 million Bitcoins of the 21 million total have been lost or are unretrieveable to date. This has to affect things. Makes them rarer?http://fortune.com/2017/11/25/lost-bitcoins/
 
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An article just came out that said around 4 million Bitcoins of the 21 million total have been lost or are unretrieveable to date. This has to affect things. Makes them rarer?
I saw that too. I dont understand how they estimate that, but it's a fact that people forget passwords, dont take backup of their files and die, so yes, bitcoins get lost each day. Maybe in the future with quantum computers these forgotten public keys will be nice prices to use the power.

The bitcoin network will be one of the first networks to be quantum resistant. Long before the governments, private banks or the military.
 

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May I ask how you think this [Bitcoin] cap would be raised? Who do you think decides that?
Honestly, I have no idea. I just think when the 21 Million cap is reached, miners will continue to mine bitcoins. They have invested a lot of money in their mining hardware. Why would they just stop when the cap is reached?
 
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Honestly, I have no idea. I just think when the 21 Million cap is reached, miners will continue to mine bitcoins. They have invested a lot of money in their mining hardware. Why would they just stop when the cap is reached?
It's called an deterministic algorithm. You should read at least the 9 pages of the bitcoin whitepaper. https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
 

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Honestly, I have no idea. I just think when the 21 Million cap is reached, miners will continue to mine bitcoins. They have invested a lot of money in their mining hardware. Why would they just stop when the cap is reached?
No offense Chief, but a few minutes of research and you'd never have posted any of that.

If miners stop mining then there'll be no bitcoin. Miners aren't just looking for that magic nonce that yields a block reward, they're processing transactions. Miners also get the fees that are paid by people using bitcoin, so to answer your question...they'll keep mining because it'll be profitable to do so even as the mining subsidy reaches zero in the year 2140.
 

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No offense Chief, but a few minutes of research and you'd never have posted any of that.

If miners stop mining then there'll be no bitcoin. Miners aren't just looking for that magic nonce that yields a block reward, they're processing transactions. Miners also get the fees that are paid by people using bitcoin, so to answer your question...they'll keep mining because it'll be profitable to do so even as the mining subsidy reaches zero in the year 2140.
The whole thing sounds like a Star Wars movie theme to me....

....a long time ago, in a galaxy far far away....BitCoin formed!
 

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Yes I know, people prefer their currency to have the official seal of fedgov...despite what they say to the contrary.
 

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I saw that too. I dont understand how they estimate that, but it's a fact that people forget passwords, dont take backup of their files and die, so yes, bitcoins get lost each day. Maybe in the future with quantum computers these forgotten public keys will be nice prices to use the power.

The bitcoin network will be one of the first networks to be quantum resistant. Long before the governments, private banks or the military.

I hope you are right Smarty,

Quantum computers, the new generation will be a serious test for the cryptos.

SH
 

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Feel like you missed out? Another chance coming up shortly. Currently in the 'Anger Stage' approaching 'Depression'. Wait for it?
BTCWEAREHERE.jpg
 
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smilershouse

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With BTC , it may be time for the granddaddy to hang up its boots and allow its more efficient siblings to continue with blockchain developments.

SH