• "Spreading the ideas of freedom loving people on matters regarding metals, finance, politics, government and many other topics"

bitcoin is the int'l banker/communist trojan horse

EO 11110

UNBANNED
Mother Lode
Site Supporter ++
Survivor
Joined
Jul 31, 2010
Messages
20,018
Reaction score
20,848
Location
clown world


The NSA may have helped to invent Bitcoin, founder of world’s second largest cryptocurrency Ethereum claims​

Comment

author image
Jasper HamillFriday 15 Jun 2018 9:49 am




LONDON, ENGLAND - DECEMBER 08: Founder of Ethereum Vitalik Buterin during TechCrunch Disrupt London 2015 - Day 2 at Copper Box Arena on December 8, 2015 in London, England. (Photo by John Phillips/Getty Images for TechCrunch)

Vitalik Buterin is one of the world’s top crypto innovators
The founder of the world’s second-biggest cryptocurrency has claimed US intelligence services may have played a role in the creation of Bitcoin.
At the beginning of his career Vitalik Buterin, the Russian-born creator of Ethereum, suggested the National Security Agency (NSA) might have been involved in the development of the virtual currency.
A person or group called Satoshi Nakamoto published a white paper in 2008 which first set out the mechanics of Bitcoin.
But although several people have been identified as the ‘real’ Satoshi, his identity has never been unequivocally proven.

Bitcoin symbol in front of a green binary code on a acrylic mirror

Bitcoin is the most famous and valuable crytocurrency (Photo: Alex Baumann)
We have discovered a post on the website Bitcoin Talk in 2011 in which Buterin responded to the following comment from a user called Bazil, who wrote: ‘Satoshi never let anyone know who he was.


‘I wouldn’t be surprised if he is actually an American working for the NSA specializing in cryptography. Then he got sick of the government’s monetary policies and decided to create Bitcoin.’
Vitalik Buterin account then replied: ‘Or the NSA itself decided to create Bitcoin.
‘Things as big as megacorps and governments work against themselves all the time, I wouldn’t be too surprised if the NSA has some part in at least supporting it.’
Vitalik later responded to this article in a statement published on his Twitter account, which you can see below.
‘My opinions have changed a lot since then,’ he wrote.
https://t.co/4ilP0RJijt
More crazy misrepresentations in this article.
* "I wouldn't be surprised" = "10-50% chance", not "claims it's true"
* That bitcointalk post was from 2011. My opinions have obviously changed a lot since then.
— Vitalik "Not giving away ETH" Buterin (@VitalikButerin) June 16, 2018

coindesk-bpi-chart-1.jpeg

A graph showing the price rise of Ethereum since 2015 (Picture: Coindesk)
Earlier this year, it was reported that a boss of the Russian cybersecurity firm Kaspersky made a similar claim.
‘Bitcoin is a project of American intelligence agencies, which was designed to provide quick funding for US, British and Canadian intelligence activities in different countries,’ she said, according to Sputnik News.
‘[The technology] is privatized just like the Internet, GPS and TOR. In fact, it is dollar 2.0. Its rate is controlled by the owners of exchanges.’
This week, the CIA said it could neither confirm nor deny that it held information on the identity of Satoshi.
 

EO 11110

UNBANNED
Mother Lode
Site Supporter ++
Survivor
Joined
Jul 31, 2010
Messages
20,018
Reaction score
20,848
Location
clown world

newmisty

Transcending the 5 Elements
Mother Lode
Site Supporter ++
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
38,190
Reaction score
61,592
Location
Qmerica
It's not rocket surgery.
Every pleb that's hip & trendy thinks it's all the rave.

Come-on man!
 

Brio

Site Supporter
Midas Member
Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
7,790
Reaction score
10,455
NSA designed SHA256, that's old news.
 

chieftain

Trump got them plump
Gold Chaser
Joined
Jan 4, 2020
Messages
4,979
Reaction score
8,303
Most of the cryptographic algorithms and routines can be traced back to the alphabet agency that starts with N.
 

Scorpio

для продажи слегка подержанный
Founding Member
Board Elder
GIM Hall Of Fame
Joined
Mar 25, 2010
Messages
33,326
Reaction score
54,161
there has been a lot of info put out re satoshi

but it is kind of rich, where a RUSSIAN founder of the main competitor Ether, is declaring chitcoin as a product of us spooks

and of course he is completely honorable
 

gringott

"Internet Moofluencer"
Midas Member
Site Supporter ++
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
18,926
Reaction score
31,226
Location
Stable
Just making a leap here, I am thinking do not trust any of them?
 

solarion

Midas Member
Midas Member
Midas Supporter
Joined
Nov 25, 2013
Messages
9,363
Reaction score
16,318
Just making a leap here, I am thinking do not trust any of them?
I certainly wouldn't.

I do however trust myself to go over open source code and determine what I perceive to be secure. SHA-2 was built by the NSA and released publicly in 2001. It's not a secret. In fact lots of you have used it and not known it, since it's also used to protect online banking connections. Hardly a smoking gun.

...and of the two bitcoin is far more trustworthy than ethereum...which was actually exploited due to their own coding incompetence before they reversed thousands of transactions in an unprecedented and deeply unpopular "charge back" which reversed all those transactions.
 

gringott

"Internet Moofluencer"
Midas Member
Site Supporter ++
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
18,926
Reaction score
31,226
Location
Stable
I don't trust you. You should not trust me. We can all trust Jesus. Everyone else will fail you.
I'm not sure about Jesus, but he does cut a nice lawn.
I trust myself sometimes, but I have been known to fuck that up too.
 

ds_mustang

Libertarian, Capitalist, Software guy
Silver Miner
Joined
Apr 1, 2010
Messages
1,471
Reaction score
1,321
I doubt the NSA created a decentralized currency that not only undermines banks and gives people the power to bank themselves, it very possibly could overtake the dollar as a global exchange currency.

Also all the code is public, so the implication there is something nefarious going on with it is BS.
 
Last edited:

gringott

"Internet Moofluencer"
Midas Member
Site Supporter ++
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
18,926
Reaction score
31,226
Location
Stable
You are dreaming. If they were threatened by bitcoin, there would be no bitcoin.
 

gringott

"Internet Moofluencer"
Midas Member
Site Supporter ++
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
18,926
Reaction score
31,226
Location
Stable
Watch them, #48Fan
 

solarion

Midas Member
Midas Member
Midas Supporter
Joined
Nov 25, 2013
Messages
9,363
Reaction score
16,318
Welp, they done screwed up because they can't stop it now.
Why stop it, when you can tax the fuq out of it and regulate it into submission.

Anyway, the bitcoin "futures" markets will eventually do for bitcoin what it has done for commodity markets. When enough stupid people accept the price of bet slips as "the price" of the underlying asset, they'll simply counterfeit enough bet slips to set the price wherever they wish. Just get enough people waxing dumb about how happy they are that they have bitcoin "exposure" and real price discovery will be on its way out.
 

Goldhedge

Retired
Mother Lode
Midas Supporter ++
GIM Hall Of Fame
Joined
Mar 28, 2010
Messages
63,646
Reaction score
137,570
Location
Rocky Mountains
The NSA may have helped to invent Bitcoin, founder of world’s second largest cryptocurrency Ethereum claims
Wouldn't that be the turnabout?
 

ds_mustang

Libertarian, Capitalist, Software guy
Silver Miner
Joined
Apr 1, 2010
Messages
1,471
Reaction score
1,321
You are dreaming. If they were threatened by bitcoin, there would be no bitcoin.
You are dreaming. All they can do is outlaw it in the US. It would still function even if outlawed, and in the rest of the world it would still be used. And if that happens it's still possible to move to a crypto friendly country. I personally know many people into crypto who already have. There are already a lot of restrictions on Americans where it comes to crypto--if you want to be free, you need to move out of "the land of the free."
 

ds_mustang

Libertarian, Capitalist, Software guy
Silver Miner
Joined
Apr 1, 2010
Messages
1,471
Reaction score
1,321
Why stop it, when you can tax the fuq out of it and regulate it into submission.

Anyway, the bitcoin "futures" markets will eventually do for bitcoin what it has done for commodity markets. When enough stupid people accept the price of bet slips as "the price" of the underlying asset, they'll simply counterfeit enough bet slips to set the price wherever they wish. Just get enough people waxing dumb about how happy they are that they have bitcoin "exposure" and real price discovery will be on its way out.
They're not regulating bitcoin, they're regulating Americans and what they can do. It's chains on YOU not on bitcoin. If you don't like it, leave while you still can.
 

solarion

Midas Member
Midas Member
Midas Supporter
Joined
Nov 25, 2013
Messages
9,363
Reaction score
16,318
I do not buy crypto derivatives or ask permission from dictators to start businesses. I invest in cryptos directly when I wish, and I refuse to dox myself. ...and I'm likely in the minority at this point.
 

gringott

"Internet Moofluencer"
Midas Member
Site Supporter ++
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
18,926
Reaction score
31,226
Location
Stable
How many Americans receive money like paychecks through direct deposit, pay their bills electronically, shop using a debit or credit card, all denominated in US FRNs? And never see a physical FRN. Millions and millions.

Now tell me that is not a digital currency. You can convert to cash FRNs at the bank. No tax or fees.

Where do you convert bitcoin to cash? I know you can.
Where? Isn't it a taxable event each time you spend bitcoin?
Like spending money from a investment in US FRNs.
It is a taxable event.

Just saying.
 

solarion

Midas Member
Midas Member
Midas Supporter
Joined
Nov 25, 2013
Messages
9,363
Reaction score
16,318
Where do you convert bitcoin to cash?
I've typically done it face to face. I transfer the bitcoin and they hand me a stack of dead presidents. Would usually meet for coffee while a confirmation block or two comes through. Never had a problem.
 

gringott

"Internet Moofluencer"
Midas Member
Site Supporter ++
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
18,926
Reaction score
31,226
Location
Stable
I've typically done it face to face. I transfer the bitcoin and they hand me a stack of dead presidents. Would usually meet for coffee while a confirmation block or two comes through. Never had a problem.
Sounds good. How did you find this connection? You think housewives and retirees and factory workers find that a practical method?
They gotta meet their 'connection' to do a transaction. I just don't see it happening in any mass way. That is why there is coinbase etc, and coinbase will report your transactions to the IRS. Period.
 

EO 11110

UNBANNED
Mother Lode
Site Supporter ++
Survivor
Joined
Jul 31, 2010
Messages
20,018
Reaction score
20,848
Location
clown world
timeline

bitcoin is a revolution -- it will hurt/kill the world currency, aka federal reserve note - smartest people laughed here

bitcoin is just another investment - and fully featured in all nyc (federal reserve) propaganda and financial markets - smart people laughed here

now it is being revealed to be a tool of the spy grid and alleged to have NSA fingerprints on it (just like google was unmasked....and facebook)

how much more proof until the midwits catch on?
 

gringott

"Internet Moofluencer"
Midas Member
Site Supporter ++
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
18,926
Reaction score
31,226
Location
Stable
Everybody pumps what they own, EO 11110. It is natural even if you don't really want to. Nobody will say anything against some investment they have big money in. If I had gold I wouldn't talk it down in public unless I wanted some cheeper.

Think of it like the jab. If you took it for a donut or for free, you must feel pretty stupid right about now. They will never admit they made a mistake, or it might in the end be a con. You got people dying, telling you they are glad they got the jab.
 

EO 11110

UNBANNED
Mother Lode
Site Supporter ++
Survivor
Joined
Jul 31, 2010
Messages
20,018
Reaction score
20,848
Location
clown world
Everybody pumps what they own, EO 11110. It is natural even if you don't really want to. Nobody will say anything against some investment they have big money in. If I had gold I wouldn't talk it down in public unless I wanted some cheeper.

Think of it like the jab. If you took it for a donut or for free, you must feel pretty stupid right about now. They will never admit they made a mistake, or it might in the end be a con. You got people dying, telling you they are glad they got the jab.

that's disheartening. i expect more from this crowd.

maybe they'll read this and stifle the muh revolution claptrap -- https://www.ccn.com/4-reasons-to-believe-the-deep-state-or-the-nsa-created-bitcoin/
 

solarion

Midas Member
Midas Member
Midas Supporter
Joined
Nov 25, 2013
Messages
9,363
Reaction score
16,318
How did you find this connection?
I used local bitcoin's website when I was liquidating lots of bitcoin for cash. It was nice to interact with fellow bitcoiners. Back then there was very little information available beyond the white paper and a few nerd forums.

It's fun to hear people here afraid of alleged spying by big brother with respect to bitcoin. What do those same people have to say about bank accounts? Credit transactions? Bitcoin is the alternative to those yes? Think the bitcoin network is generating a S.A.R.(suspicious activity report) each time someone spends > $10k worth of bitcoin? lol If the federal regime accuses you of a crime, can they shut off your ATM access and credit cards? ...or your bitcoin wallet?

Lots of people that got into bitcoin early did plenty of research about how it works and don't find these silly headlines about alleged goobermint spying to be the least bit startling. The propaganda works significantly better on people that aren't willing to attempt to understand how bitcoin works.
 

gringott

"Internet Moofluencer"
Midas Member
Site Supporter ++
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
18,926
Reaction score
31,226
Location
Stable
the spying thing was not brought up by me. I don't care.

Taxes & the IRS was.

Okay, at the start of bitcoin you physically interacted with people. Sure.

You did not address the current situation (and don't as far as YOU are concerned, I will let it go, we have no idea how many people or who is reading this) nor how Jane Housewife or Joe Sixpack is running around meeting up with "somebody" to physically trade bitcoin for cash so they can buy things that bitcoin cannot be used for, like local groceries gas etc never mind bills.

I saw somewhere the other day that you can direct deposit your paycheck into bitcoin. Anybody think that is secret and not taxed?

This is the same issue with PMs. For most people, they will cash out a large amount when they cash out. Not for daily expenses.

Any change from bit to cash in the USA is a taxable event. You have not addressed that.
You can buy PMs, cars, a house I am sure with bitcoin. But at the point of exchange, you just created a tax liability, along with creating a record of how much bitcoin you traded, from you and to them. You think a car dealership isn't reporting bitcoin purchases, they certainly are reporting cash purchases.

I agree with you guys on, if I had to transport wealth (above the limit) across national borders, for example, and I didn't care if it was an illegal action, bitcoin would be close to gold jewelry for me. But I wouldn't of course. I follow all laws.

Long term investment, not needed to "cash out" until I liquidate bitcoin, sure. Understanding that I will have to pay capital gains on profit, if any.

Put any serious cash in it, make huge money, who you gonna cash out with in person. It won't happen I suspect.
Most likely have to pay the tax IMHO. So the whole point of secret etc goes out the window unless you are changing chump change.

I had bitcoin. When the IRS went after Coinbase for tax reporting information, I bailed out of the market, for the same reason I don't actively trade outside retirement accounts or work for pay. Every trade out or into another instrument is taxable if there are capital gains. I refuse to work or pay any capital gains I don't have to because I am starving the government of stealing my earnings. I have enough FRNs to support my body until I croak. I don't have to have more. Example: last car I bought I paid cash, from my RothIRA. No taxes.

You guys like it, fine. More power to you. But every answer you provide is full of holes except if you are working for black money and investing black money and nobody is looking to see how you are paying to stay alive. Remember Al Capone. He didn't pay taxes on his criminal income, so he went to jail for tax evasion. Fact.
 

solarion

Midas Member
Midas Member
Midas Supporter
Joined
Nov 25, 2013
Messages
9,363
Reaction score
16,318
Any change from bit to cash in the USA is a taxable event. You have not addressed that.
I refuse to pay federal taxes. The IRS can sukkit, I have no representation and therefore I do not pay them. Yes, I'm aware they now require people to dox themselves to convert FRNs to BTC. I did say I refuse to dox myself. As far as getting cash from bitcoin without meeting someone that wishes to swap a stack of cash for them...I'd suggest buying PMs with bitcoin, then selling the PMs locally for cash. Call it a loophole if you like, PM dealers are not required to report sales under a certain limit, and the local LCS is not required to report purchases below a certain limit. I didn't make those rules, the fascist traitors in charge did.

We need to be talking about why the federal regime thinks it can install an illegitimate POTUS clearly suffering from dementia that shits himself in public and what Amerikans are going to do to take their country back when peaceful means are clearly not going to work. Instead we're all supposed to live in terror of the IRS? ...uh no thanks.

That we refer to financial freedom as a crime involving "black money" is all one really needs to know. Either we're slaves or we're free...make a choice...I've made mine and if you guys stop hearing from me, it may be because I've been legally kidnapped(or murdered) for refusing to hit my knees. So be it...it was a conscious decision I made.
 

EO 11110

UNBANNED
Mother Lode
Site Supporter ++
Survivor
Joined
Jul 31, 2010
Messages
20,018
Reaction score
20,848
Location
clown world
I used local bitcoin's website when I was liquidating lots of bitcoin for cash. It was nice to interact with fellow bitcoiners. Back then there was very little information available beyond the white paper and a few nerd forums.

It's fun to hear people here afraid of alleged spying by big brother with respect to bitcoin. What do those same people have to say about bank accounts? Credit transactions? Bitcoin is the alternative to those yes? Think the bitcoin network is generating a S.A.R.(suspicious activity report) each time someone spends > $10k worth of bitcoin? lol If the federal regime accuses you of a crime, can they shut off your ATM access and credit cards? ...or your bitcoin wallet?

Lots of people that got into bitcoin early did plenty of research about how it works and don't find these silly headlines about alleged goobermint spying to be the least bit startling. The propaganda works significantly better on people that aren't willing to attempt to understand how bitcoin works.

making money and observing the implications of the vehicle are two separate issues

child traffickers make money. home invaders make money

my issue is with the dumbasses that portray the new spy tool as good for our countrymen. that's akin to celebrating child molesters and vibrants kicking in doors
 

solarion

Midas Member
Midas Member
Midas Supporter
Joined
Nov 25, 2013
Messages
9,363
Reaction score
16,318
A "spy tool" that keeps a public ledger of alpha numeric strings a human may or may not choose to attach to themselves? A string that never ever has to be used twice? Uh no.

Bitcoin/block chain is literally the precise opposite of what the federal regime would implement to spy on Americans. Any bitcoiner with even a shred of knowledge can create untraceable transactions...casually. Yes, the federal regime has decided to tax it...as they do everything, but no it's not designed to be open to spying...quite the opposite in fact. Bitcoin/blockchain is the work of a genius mind or minds.
 

gringott

"Internet Moofluencer"
Midas Member
Site Supporter ++
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
18,926
Reaction score
31,226
Location
Stable
Well, thanks for sharing solarion. You make some interesting points.

My big worries are kinda simple - my MIL is getting to the point she is hopeless, I am caught here in as the observer as my wife goes slowly insane wondering what might happen when and how she is going to handle it. Worst case she can quit her job she is over 20 but then the whole flying / jab / quarantine thing keeps changing, and if / when she goes over who knows when she will come back. If I go with her I face the same nightmare. So I am looking closer to home right now trying to make some plan. I'll fix the USA when I get back. lol.

Nice thread.

p/s I mean no harm or foul, just asking questions for my own edification. As I said, I had some. Good luck! And I don't judge you for what you chose to do with your life, I understand that the membership here is very diverse with one common draw PMs.
 

solarion

Midas Member
Midas Member
Midas Supporter
Joined
Nov 25, 2013
Messages
9,363
Reaction score
16,318
My sons are all 20 somethings. I can definitely relate. I advised them all to store wealth in gold & silver years ago...they didn't listen. I later advised them to stack cryptos...1 listened. The other two are pissed they didn't listen.
 

plata_oro

Silver Member
Silver Miner
Joined
Aug 15, 2012
Messages
430
Reaction score
427
Location
Treasure Valley
Mining cryptos is a good way to obtain them with anonymity. That's how I got most of my ether. Always store on a hardwallet.

I don't own much bitcoin anymore. I gambled most of it away when it was $400. I have no desire to purchase more as fees are outrageous and let's face it, it's becoming the dinosaur of cryptos. But that isn't stopping the mainstream buyer and hedge funds.

I don't buy them for profit but like G&S, protection.

My choices; ethereum and litecoin. Litecoin is cheap and effective to transact while ethereum is improving more and more as it matures. A lot of ethereum tokens show promise like uniswap and chainlink and I know there are others too.
 

ds_mustang

Libertarian, Capitalist, Software guy
Silver Miner
Joined
Apr 1, 2010
Messages
1,471
Reaction score
1,321
Mining cryptos is a good way to obtain them with anonymity. That's how I got most of my ether. Always store on a hardwallet.

I don't own much bitcoin anymore. I gambled most of it away when it was $400. I have no desire to purchase more as fees are outrageous and let's face it, it's becoming the dinosaur of cryptos. But that isn't stopping the mainstream buyer and hedge funds.

I don't buy them for profit but like G&S, protection.

My choices; ethereum and litecoin. Litecoin is cheap and effective to transact while ethereum is improving more and more as it matures. A lot of ethereum tokens show promise like uniswap and chainlink and I know there are others too.
Litecoin is only cheap and effective because people don't use it much. If that changes you'll have to find another crypto.

It's the same with countries... good countries for people that appreciate freedom end up being the ones that aren't as crowded (with governments that don't have the size and power to try to control everyone).