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ill bet
Breaking: Texas Elementary School Shooting--as many as 14 Dead, including suspect
- Thread starter SilverCity
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Single story school. Windows. They waited for a key?
One can only wonder in 1 hr & 22 minutes if some private citizen had shown up with 3-5 weapons and handed them out to parents how much sooner this would have been over. Also wonder what the donut eaters would have done had it been taken out of their hands........
Radio "expert" for what they are worth anymore said in a school situation you never disengage.
I'm thinking America is starting to think about our "leaders" the same way..........
Commander made ‘wrong decision’ waiting to go inside Uvalde elementary school, official says
At least some of the 911 calls made during the Tuesday attack on Robb Elementary School came from inside one of the connected classrooms.
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The local fire department has forcible entry tools to open doors. A rescue unit has alot more. Can't tell me that these resources were not immediately available.
One of the pundits said they label the classroom number on the outside windows so fire and rescue can identify specific classroom externally
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Now they are saying that they thought the situation had transitioned from an active shooter to a barricaded subject. This is ridiculous. If he is armed and barricaded in a school with children then he is still an active shooter.
the classroom doors of our local skoolz have been reinforced - where it takes big effort/equipment to break in without the key. probably federal money after previous events like this one. i bet the uvalde doors got same reinforcement
i'm guessing this is why they were waiting on the 'key'
it was probably a violation of protocol that the classroom door was open. without that fck up the tranny wouldnt have got into the classroom
a lot of blame to go around -- but those two open doors stand tall - the outside door and the classroom door. the teacher that left her door open paid the toll
i'm guessing this is why they were waiting on the 'key'
it was probably a violation of protocol that the classroom door was open. without that fck up the tranny wouldnt have got into the classroom
a lot of blame to go around -- but those two open doors stand tall - the outside door and the classroom door. the teacher that left her door open paid the toll
I would seek out every cop that rescued his child and kill his child in front of him. Then him.
Damn' good thing even my grandchildren are grown...
Damn' good thing even my grandchildren are grown...
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That's a bit harsh on the kid, even for you
So what happened to the story about the US Marshall that went in "without" backup to kill the guy? Entirely bullshit? Or before the 19 cops in the hallway got a key and hey went through a window or something? I'd call 19 heavily armed asshats in the hallway backup, but hey, you do you.
Ask me (or yourself) if I'd (you'd) givvashit. A couple huge school murders more like that -- responded to brutally and justly (but no hand wringing types allowed) and that shit would go back to like it was in the 1950's: Discipline in every classroom, NO armed intruders anywhere in the country out to kill kids. KIDS had rifles in school. I did.
If I was in a police uniform and my commander said, "Don't go in there (except to rescue OUR kids) for an hour. It might be dangerous."
I would tell him I would deal with him later, and I would lead a charge (alone if necessary ) in there and solve the problem.
Talk to me, shootie: WHAT WOULD YOU DO if it was YOUR KID on the fucking phone with you, and is screaming for help. And a cop tases you for heading in? Develop that picture fully in your mind. No bullshit unreal skimming the overall view, fearfully holding in mind public/twitter reaction about "harsh".
Be honest with yourself. Cast aside what other "skimmers of the situation" say from 40,000 feet. Be real. Your child screams as the bullets tear into flesh. AND A MOTHERFUCKING COP TASED YOU TO STOP YOU FROM SAVING YOUR KID FROM DYING IN YOUR SIGHT.
I take it from the "harsh" grade given by your Understanding Gentleness that you might write a stiff letter to the editor. Or even float the idea of some sort of lawsuit. NAH. Lawsuit won't work. The cops DO NOT have to protect you or anyone else despite what is written on the car doors.
So... stick with the stern letter declaring your opprobrium. That will satisfy you and justice for your dead kid. Good job, Lamb Chop.
The Rule in The Real World: When you are in the grass, those who oppose you are your enemy. <-- It is not a complex rule. Apply it to the cop(s) that tased dads trying to rescue their own children. <--Got that CLEAR picture in your mind?
If you are in a war, shoot the enemy. <-- Who murders/and assists in the murders/and prevents YOU from stopping the murders... THAT, shootie, is your enemy. Obliterate him and everything about him.
Who, shootie, is the enemy if they are direct fucking accessory to the murder of your child(ren)?
And I am harsh? Go back to Disney World where everything is safe.
The enemy's family is a proper target in the ultimate life-or-death real fucking world. Like Coventrating an English city. Or Berlin. Or Nagasaki. Until the enemy is totally gone and those who were thinking of joining them in their evil -- then drop the idea completely.
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We can't believe anything we get from the media any more. We also can't believe anything we get from the internet celebrities telling us they 'know' what happened.
This period is our time will probably be known as the Great Lying Period of our dying civilization
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String the adults up, not the kids! How and why would you blame them? Were those kids of the cops in on what we pretty much know was a false flag?
Punish the adults, not their kids....that's all I'm saying
There's angry and then there's loony. I'm angry, are you loony?
Sounds like this scene.
Parkland MSD is mostly rich kids, but the school is government run.
That time the Broward Sheriff's deputy on site checkened out.
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Go back up and read what I added that you did not see.
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My comment was directed at this^^^not what you added
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Anyone have this much hate directed to the real people at fault........ the ds? Those that enslave us all.
All these cops standing around & one asshat says don't go in........ ff
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Not only that, the door the the shooter used to enter the school building had been propped open by a teacher.
Wtf was that person thinking?
For anyone who is interested, here is a good run-down and analysis of what we know so far.
About 11 minutes.
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The SC has already ruled that the police are under no obligation to put their lives at risk to save anyone, including children.
I would rather see 20 cops get shot, taking fire with all their bullet proof gear on. It distracts the shooter from killing kids and then I would call them heros.
we should really just get rid of the police. They don't serve much of a function. Legalize all drugs, let the addicts kill themselves.
Suggested speed limits and have patrol officers stop and arrest anyone that is driving crazy or drunk. Wide open highways, no speed limit.
Kind of ironic that the police will stop you for speeding or not wearing a seatbelt, take your money and call " public safety."
I would rather see 20 cops get shot, taking fire with all their bullet proof gear on. It distracts the shooter from killing kids and then I would call them heros.
we should really just get rid of the police. They don't serve much of a function. Legalize all drugs, let the addicts kill themselves.
Suggested speed limits and have patrol officers stop and arrest anyone that is driving crazy or drunk. Wide open highways, no speed limit.
Kind of ironic that the police will stop you for speeding or not wearing a seatbelt, take your money and call " public safety."
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Yea that place in Ct as well. Very affluent community. I guess my comment needs to be corrected.
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Almost all fire departments have auto extrication equipment ("Jaws of Life"). It consists of spreaders, cutters, etc. They can cut you out of a vehicle, even after a semi ran over you. These extrication tools can be used to open reinforced doors, if you wanted to. These tools are portable, where they can be powered by a battery or portable power unit. The means were there to open the doors. "Wait for a key" is no excuse!
Not sure how they would do all that without drawing fire.
What, and loose my pension? No way.
He was probably Roman Catholic.
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Possibly. Even the Pope is an atheist.
The "Mistakes were made" defense for piss poor performance....Commander made ‘wrong decision’ waiting to go inside Uvalde elementary school, official says
At least some of the 911 calls made during the Tuesday attack on Robb Elementary School came from inside one of the connected classrooms.www.masslive.com
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The pope is a communist!
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criminal negligence should result in police prosecutions!
FBI AGENT GOADED GARLAND SHOOTER TO “TEAR UP TEXAS,” RAISING NEW ALARMS ABOUT BUREAU’S METHODS
An undercover FBI agent egged on a would-be terrorist shortly before he opened fire on a Texas cartoon contest last year, raising new doubts about the bureau’s approach to cozying up to its targets.
Murtaza HussainAugust 9 2016
Photo: Brandon Wade/AP
THE REVELATION THAT an undercover FBI agent encouraged a would-be terrorist to “Tear up Texas” shortly before he opened fire on a “Draw Muhammad” cartoon contest in Garland, Texas, last year raises new concerns about FBI counterterrorism efforts that were already under fire for manufacturing terrorism cases rather than halting them.
According to an affidavit filed in a related case last week, Elton Simpson — one of two men who donned body armor and fired assault weapons before being shot dead by a Garland police officer — had been corresponding with an undercover FBI agent. And in a text message roughly a week before the attack, as they discussed the cartoon contest, the agent had exhorted Simpson to “Tear up Texas.”
But testing the willingness of suspects to take certain steps in a conspiracy is one thing; actively encouraging them to commit a violent, criminal act is another.
“The FBI uses informants and undercover agents to pressure suspected ISIS sympathizers into committing acts of violence, so that they can then be prosecuted. The Garland shooter case is the most striking illustration yet of the dangers of this approach,” says Arun Kundnani, a lecturer on terrorism studies at New York University. “Essentially, it suggests the government may be manufacturing the very threat it is supposed to be countering.”
Kundnani called for “an independent congressional investigation of the FBI’s tactics.”
The extensive role played by the undercover agent was first reported by the Daily Beast.
Though sting operations are generally seen as an appropriate tool for infiltrating criminal organizations or conspiracies, their use is more problematic in contemporary terrorism cases involving isolated individuals. In those cases, the concern is that the informant or undercover agent could plant the idea to actually conduct an attack in the mind of a suggestible or unstable person.
“These cases always have a lot of gray area and there has always been a question of how far the FBI should go when they get involved in these sting operations,” said Karen Greenberg, director of the Center on National Security at Fordham Law School. “But if you’re going to target potentially unstable, vulnerable individuals in undercover sting operations, you have to examine the potential consequences of having these types of discussions with them.”
The utility of sting operations has changed in the era of Islamic State, Greenberg said. Terrorist groups in the past, including al Qaeda, tended to have more coherent plots and mature conspirators. “There are several factors which make it harder to control a situation with informants in ISIS cases, including the instability, vulnerability, and, frequently, the young age of most ISIS recruits,” Greenberg said. “Not only is there often a lack of a specific plot in mind, there tends to be a real sense of suicidal thinking and self-hatred in their motivations that can make it more difficult to control a situation.”
“We just don’t know what happened in this case, but it’s a real warning sign that the foreseeable consequences of acts are now unknown,” she adds. In none of the previous cases is the FBI known to have actively encouraged violence, nor dealt with anyone equipped and prepared to carry out an imminent, violent act. Here they seemingly did both.
FBI Director James Comey has said there are active investigations of suspected ISIS sympathizers ongoing “in all 50 states.” But little is known about the nature of the individuals held under suspicion or what methods the FBI is using to investigate them.
The New York Times reported in June that since February 2015, two thirds of terrorism prosecutions related to Islamic State have involved undercover operatives.
And in recent years a number of plots have materialized involving seemingly unstable individuals interacting with government informants. This January, a 25-year-old man with a history of psychiatric problems was arrested after attempting to attack an upstate New York bar with a machete — with the assistance of a government informant who helped provide him with the machete. And in October 2014, a former army recruit was introduced to FBI informants after being released from of a mental institution. Months later, he was arrested for plotting to attack a military facility — with a fake bomb provided by the informants.
Although more than 100 alleged Islamic State plots have been documented in the United States since 2014, it’s unclear how many would have materialized without the involvement of informants or undercover agents. Such cases nevertheless help inflate the public fear of terrorism and feed the misconception that terrorist sleeper cells are ubiquitous in the United States.
The escalation of FBI tactics to actively encouraging violent actors in these investigations would be a dangerous step.
Many of the targets of prior terrorism investigations did not demonstrate any ability to prepare for an actual attack without the FBI providing their equipment. But the Garland shooters did.
And had they been more competent in their assault, the result could have been one of the deadliest terrorist attacks in recent U.S. history – an attack that was encouraged by the FBI.
Top photo: FBI crime scene investigators document the area around two deceased gunmen and their vehicle outside the Curtis Culwell Center in Garland, Texas, in May 2014.
FBI Agent Goaded Garland Shooter to “Tear Up Texas,” Raising New Alarms About Bureau’s Methods
An undercover FBI agent egged on a would-be terrorist shortly before he opened fire on a Texas cartoon contest last year, raising new doubts about the bureau’s approach to cozying up to its targets.
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Great but....there's no one left to hold the FBI accountable. The only entity that can is The People but they/we still refuse to do what we need to. It's not quite time yetFBI AGENT GOADED GARLAND SHOOTER TO “TEAR UP TEXAS,” RAISING NEW ALARMS ABOUT BUREAU’S METHODS
An undercover FBI agent egged on a would-be terrorist shortly before he opened fire on a Texas cartoon contest last year, raising new doubts about the bureau’s approach to cozying up to its targets.
Murtaza Hussain
August 9 2016
Photo: Brandon Wade/AP
THE REVELATION THAT an undercover FBI agent encouraged a would-be terrorist to “Tear up Texas” shortly before he opened fire on a “Draw Muhammad” cartoon contest in Garland, Texas, last year raises new concerns about FBI counterterrorism efforts that were already under fire for manufacturing terrorism cases rather than halting them.
According to an affidavit filed in a related case last week, Elton Simpson — one of two men who donned body armor and fired assault weapons before being shot dead by a Garland police officer — had been corresponding with an undercover FBI agent. And in a text message roughly a week before the attack, as they discussed the cartoon contest, the agent had exhorted Simpson to “Tear up Texas.”
The FBI, in the affidavit, explained the comment as “an effort to continue their dialogue” with the suspect.
But testing the willingness of suspects to take certain steps in a conspiracy is one thing; actively encouraging them to commit a violent, criminal act is another.
“The FBI uses informants and undercover agents to pressure suspected ISIS sympathizers into committing acts of violence, so that they can then be prosecuted. The Garland shooter case is the most striking illustration yet of the dangers of this approach,” says Arun Kundnani, a lecturer on terrorism studies at New York University. “Essentially, it suggests the government may be manufacturing the very threat it is supposed to be countering.”
Kundnani called for “an independent congressional investigation of the FBI’s tactics.”
The extensive role played by the undercover agent was first reported by the Daily Beast.
Though sting operations are generally seen as an appropriate tool for infiltrating criminal organizations or conspiracies, their use is more problematic in contemporary terrorism cases involving isolated individuals. In those cases, the concern is that the informant or undercover agent could plant the idea to actually conduct an attack in the mind of a suggestible or unstable person.
“These cases always have a lot of gray area and there has always been a question of how far the FBI should go when they get involved in these sting operations,” said Karen Greenberg, director of the Center on National Security at Fordham Law School. “But if you’re going to target potentially unstable, vulnerable individuals in undercover sting operations, you have to examine the potential consequences of having these types of discussions with them.”
The utility of sting operations has changed in the era of Islamic State, Greenberg said. Terrorist groups in the past, including al Qaeda, tended to have more coherent plots and mature conspirators. “There are several factors which make it harder to control a situation with informants in ISIS cases, including the instability, vulnerability, and, frequently, the young age of most ISIS recruits,” Greenberg said. “Not only is there often a lack of a specific plot in mind, there tends to be a real sense of suicidal thinking and self-hatred in their motivations that can make it more difficult to control a situation.”
“We just don’t know what happened in this case, but it’s a real warning sign that the foreseeable consequences of acts are now unknown,” she adds. In none of the previous cases is the FBI known to have actively encouraged violence, nor dealt with anyone equipped and prepared to carry out an imminent, violent act. Here they seemingly did both.
FBI Director James Comey has said there are active investigations of suspected ISIS sympathizers ongoing “in all 50 states.” But little is known about the nature of the individuals held under suspicion or what methods the FBI is using to investigate them.
The New York Times reported in June that since February 2015, two thirds of terrorism prosecutions related to Islamic State have involved undercover operatives.
And in recent years a number of plots have materialized involving seemingly unstable individuals interacting with government informants. This January, a 25-year-old man with a history of psychiatric problems was arrested after attempting to attack an upstate New York bar with a machete — with the assistance of a government informant who helped provide him with the machete. And in October 2014, a former army recruit was introduced to FBI informants after being released from of a mental institution. Months later, he was arrested for plotting to attack a military facility — with a fake bomb provided by the informants.
Although more than 100 alleged Islamic State plots have been documented in the United States since 2014, it’s unclear how many would have materialized without the involvement of informants or undercover agents. Such cases nevertheless help inflate the public fear of terrorism and feed the misconception that terrorist sleeper cells are ubiquitous in the United States.
The escalation of FBI tactics to actively encouraging violent actors in these investigations would be a dangerous step.
Many of the targets of prior terrorism investigations did not demonstrate any ability to prepare for an actual attack without the FBI providing their equipment. But the Garland shooters did.
And had they been more competent in their assault, the result could have been one of the deadliest terrorist attacks in recent U.S. history – an attack that was encouraged by the FBI.
Top photo: FBI crime scene investigators document the area around two deceased gunmen and their vehicle outside the Curtis Culwell Center in Garland, Texas, in May 2014.
FBI Agent Goaded Garland Shooter to “Tear Up Texas,” Raising New Alarms About Bureau’s Methods
An undercover FBI agent egged on a would-be terrorist shortly before he opened fire on a Texas cartoon contest last year, raising new doubts about the bureau’s approach to cozying up to its targets.theintercept.com
Read It: Fed Who Killed Shooter Got Text From Wife Who Was Inside, Grabbed Gun From Barber and Sped to School
Read It: Fed Who Killed Shooter Got Text From Wife Who Was Inside, Grabbed Gun From Barber and Sped to School
That's a scary text to receive from a loved one.
[Forwarded from Chief Nerd]
Uvalde School District Police Chief Who Ordered the Cops NOT to Engage the School Shooter Was Elected to City Council Just Days Before Massacre
“According to a law enforcement official who anonymously spoke to The New York Times, the agents had been puzzled as to why they were being told not to enter the school and engage the gunman.
Arredondo, who was born in Uvalde and was elected to city council just days before the massacre, has had an unremarkable career as a cop.”
@ChiefNerd
Uvalde School District Police Chief Who Ordered the Cops NOT to Engage the School Shooter Was Elected to City Council Just Days Before Massacre
“According to a law enforcement official who anonymously spoke to The New York Times, the agents had been puzzled as to why they were being told not to enter the school and engage the gunman.
Arredondo, who was born in Uvalde and was elected to city council just days before the massacre, has had an unremarkable career as a cop.”
Man who ordered cops NOT to confront Texas gunman was a 911 dispatcher
Uvalde's school district police chief Pete Arredondo is facing backlash for refusing to let his officers engage the active shooter at Robb Elementary
www.dailymail.co.uk
@ChiefNerd
Man who ordered cops NOT to confront Texas gunman was a 911 dispatcher
Uvalde's school district police chief Pete Arredondo is facing backlash for refusing to let his officers engage the active shooter at Robb Elementary
www.dailymail.co.uk
The rot is at the top.