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BRILLIANT Legal Answer to "Jab or Fired" Companies

Unca Walt

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In less than two minutes, you will be amazed.

https://welovetrump.com/2021/11/22/man-has-brilliant-argument-about-employer-vaccine-mandates/

In case you do not want to click, here is a quick summary: When you go to work, you spend your hours doing work for the company. This is what the company pays you for.

AFTER you are done with your working hours, your time and life are your own and you can do what you want. But if you are forced to get vaxxed by your company, you do NOT have your own time and life to do as you wish because you cannot leave the vaxx at the company door.

So that means the company is governing what you do -- and are -- while you are not at work. And THAT means the company has to pay you for those hours.
 
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the_shootist

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In less than two minutes, you will be amazed.

https://welovetrump.com/2021/11/22/man-has-brilliant-argument-about-employer-vaccine-mandates/

In case you do not want to click, here is a quick summary: When you go to work, you spend your hours doing work for the company. This is what the company pays you for.

AFTER you are done with your working hours, your time and life are your own and you can do what you want. But if you are forced to get vaxxed by your company, you do NOT have your own time and life to do as you wish because you cannot leave the vaxx at the company door.

So that means the company is governing what you do -- and are -- while you are not at work. And THAT means the company has to pay you for those hours.
That only works for hourly employees. Us exempt (salaried) folks are on the clock 24/7/365
 
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Goldbrix

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In less than two minutes, you will be amazed.

https://welovetrump.com/2021/11/22/man-has-brilliant-argument-about-employer-vaccine-mandates/

In case you do not want to click, here is a quick summary: When you go to work, you spend your hours doing work for the company. This is what the company pays you for.

AFTER you are done with your working hours, your time and life are your own and you can do what you want. But if you are forced to get vaxxed by your company, you do NOT have your own time and life to do as you wish because you cannot leave the vaxx at the company door.

So that means the company is governing what you do -- and are -- while you are not at work. And THAT means the company has to pay you for those hours.
As Union President I used this same strategy when management wanted to place folks "On Call" and only pay them when they arrived at work.
Our logic was - Carrying a pager or a "Company Cell Phone" was work and deprived the employee his/her personal freedom as such the employee is to be in a PAY STATUS during this ON CALL status.
Management withdrew their position and placed it on their managerial staff.

The extended logic: If the company demands you be "Jabbed" 1). "The Jab" is to be done on Company Time and 2). The Jabbed employee(s) are placed on a 24/7/365 pay status at the same rate of their regular hourly pay. ( They have been denied Personal Freedom )
WINNABLE in a Greivance, Arbitration, or a Court Case.
 

agcoacres

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It would also seem that, if the Company mandated the shot via OSHA standard, any associated negative side effect or illness should be a recordable incident, and companies do not like recordables.
 

the_shootist

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It would also seem that, if the Company mandated the shot via OSHA standard, any associated negative side effect or illness should be a recordable incident, and companies do not like recordables.
A job is replaceable, a life isn't. I guess it all depends on your personal risk appetite for how each person faces this horrible decision!

Edit: No offense or disrespect meant to anyone here!
 
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agcoacres

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A job is replaceable, a life isn't. I guess it all depends on your personal risk appetite for how each person faces this horrible decision!
Agreed. Just relaying some of the discussions that us represented hourly folks have been having at the workplace.
 

Unca Walt

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As Union President I used this same strategy when management wanted to place folks "On Call" and only pay them when they arrived at work.
Our logic was - Carrying a pager or a "Company Cell Phone" was work and deprived the employee his/her personal freedom as such the employee is to be in a PAY STATUS during this ON CALL status.
Management withdrew their position and placed it on their managerial staff.

The extended logic: If the company demands you be "Jabbed" 1). "The Jab" is to be done on Company Time and 2). The Jabbed employee(s) are placed on a 24/7/365 pay status at the same rate of their regular hourly pay. ( They have been denied Personal Freedom )
WINNABLE in a Greivance, Arbitration, or a Court Case.
A job is replaceable, a life isn't. I guess it all depends on your personal risk appetite for how each person faces this horrible decision!

Edit: No offense or disrespect meant to anyone here!
Well, NOBODY... NOBODY AT ALL has to make that decision if they learn where they really stand on this, legally.

Just tell the company that they owe him 24/7, 365 days/year pay for the rest of his life. Sobering, if you are in management.
 

the_shootist

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Well, NOBODY... NOBODY AT ALL has to make that decision if they learn where they really stand on this, legally.

Just tell the company that they owe him 24/7, 365 days/year pay for the rest of his life. Sobering, if you are in management.
My company is already in the data collection stage (vaxxed or not vaxxed). I already went on record as refusing to divulge my personal info because there is no OSHA mandate in place presently requiring it. If and when they put their foot down, so will I.
 

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Unca Walt

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My company is already in the data collection stage (vaxxed or not vaxxed). I already went on record as refusing to divulge my personal info because there is no OSHA mandate in place presently requiring it. If and when they put their foot down, so will I.
As a really dirty-handed meany, I would like to offer you a gem of an idea/action:

See to it -- somehow -- management gets that quote. You could drop it on a desk, hand it to them, paste it on a fargin door... just so they see it.

This one:

As Union President I used this same strategy when management wanted to place folks "On Call" and only pay them when they arrived at work.

Our logic was - Carrying a pager or a "Company Cell Phone" was work and deprived the employee his/her personal freedom as such the employee is to be in a PAY STATUS during this ON CALL status.

Management withdrew their position and placed it on their managerial staff.

The extended logic: If the company demands you be "Jabbed"

1). "The Jab" is to be done on Company Time and

2). The Jabbed employee(s) are placed on a 24/7/365 pay status at the same rate of their regular hourly pay. (They have been denied Personal Freedom.)

WINNABLE in a Grievance, Arbitration, or a Court Case.
 

Casey Jones

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This all presupposes that we live in a world governed by laws, equally applied.

We don't. Start with the Fourth Amendment: "The Right of the People to be secure in their persons" (without unwanted medical intrusions of any sort)..."

...is now reduced to dicta.

On to this. The argument is perfectly, totally logical and reasonable. But for it to stick, you have to have a judge that took time off from reading Rules for Radicals, to actually crack a law book. That's few of them, today.

I had actually seen a similar argument fail. Drug tests of the military personnel. Random; at any time.

We had a few cases of enlisted men coming back from long leave periods, out of state, and popping positive on the wizz quiz.

Before I was even in...someone had tried to invalidate the regulations. The argument was, what a person does on leave periods, away from the base or military property, has no bearing on his behavior or consumption of substances while serving actively on a Navy ship or in a military unit.

The argument failed. The answer was, the individual was bringing drugs onto the base - IN HIS BODY. Even though his use may have been many days prior. So...OTH separation...bring in the next case.

Unless someone finds himself in front of a very-courageous judge, he'll probably get similar disregard. And then, you can bet that either the employer or OSHA will appeal it up.
 

ttazzman

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While those are "brilliant " arguments.....a employer can terminate without cause....and hire with cause .....
 

the_shootist

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While those are "brilliant " arguments.....a employer can terminate without cause....and hire with cause .....
yeah but then there's all these nasty little anti-discrimination laws the progressives have slid in there...HR policies are no longer that cut and dried!
 
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Unca Walt

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yeah but then there's all these nasty little anti-discrimination laws the progressives have slid in there...it's no longer that cut and dried!
There It Is. It would be very public and very roundly supported by many. Class Action Suit rings a big bell on this one. The result is the asshole diaper mindset would have to back off or pay big.
 

Unca Walt

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While those are "brilliant " arguments.....a employer can terminate without cause....and hire with cause .....
(*snicker*) Lemme change yer mind. You got a company comprising 50 employees. So you terminate all the black employees and hire white.

Do you really think that scenario would get a whisper of support about "can terminate without cause"? Me neither. KABOOM.
 

ttazzman

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(*snicker*) Lemme change yer mind. You got a company comprising 50 employees. So you terminate all the black employees and hire white.

Do you really think that scenario would get a whisper of support about "can terminate without cause"? Me neither. KABOOM.

Absolutely wrong....no law requires you to continue to employ anyone....can you be sued of course anyone can sue....the key is what can they get if they sue...if there is nothing to get it is meaningless....we set up shell companies that all they provided was labor at cost to other companies, all it cost was reforming costs to give the litigant the whole company....so its not hard to get around these issues......try again
 

Casey Jones

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Absolutely wrong....no law requires you to continue to employ anyone....can you be sued of course anyone can sue....the key is what can they get if they sue...if there is nothing to get it is meaningless....we set up shell companies that all they provided was labor at cost to other companies, all it cost was reforming costs to give the litigant the whole company....so its not hard to get around these issues......try again
There is a legal term for this...wish I could remember the exact phrasing. Something like "Forbidden Characteristics."

You can NOT use race, ethnicity, age beyond parameters of legal adulthood, to hire or retain or terminate employees. Beyond that, at least in theory, you're free to hire and fire at will.

This is why the endless EEOC lawsuits. Black people who were also slovenly, unqualified, unmotivated, underperforming - often demonstrably so - get fired and then sue to try to convince a judge, or give a radical judge a chance, to validate their fiction - that it was all about RACE.

Here, too. Not only are the Unclean not a politically-protected group; but the official Government Narrative is that everyone should/must be Jabbed. So, expect no protection, unless it furthers the Narrative.
 

ttazzman

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There is a legal term for this...wish I could remember the exact phrasing. Something like "Forbidden Characteristics."

You can NOT use race, ethnicity, age beyond parameters of legal adulthood, to hire or retain or terminate employees. Beyond that, at least in theory, you're free to hire and fire at will.

This is why the endless EEOC lawsuits. Black people who were also slovenly, unqualified, unmotivated, underperforming - often demonstrably so - get fired and then sue to try to convince a judge, or give a radical judge a chance, to validate their fiction - that it was all about RACE.

Here, too. Not only are the Unclean not a politically-protected group; but the official Government Narrative is that everyone should/must be Jabbed. So, expect no protection, unless it furthers the Narrative.

in our world anyone can file suit ...or legislate, regulate etc..........those only work is there is a carrot at the end of the stick......point is every business is at risk from about anything at anytime.......and while regulations etc may require something that is only effective if there is a monitary carrot at the end of the stick ....remove the carrot and the act becomes "legal" due to lack of punitive kickback ..... and even if the carrot is there you can still do the act.......just gotta pay...... for years i saw construction companies that were labor only companies and if they got a large osha fine or insurance rates go to high they just closed that company since it had zero assetts and reopened it under another name .....