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Can Mandatory National Service Unite A Polarized America?

searcher

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#1
National service can unite a polarized America

I once had a very close friend named Charlie. We spent every day together, much of the night, too. I got to learn about his family and old neighborhood, and he got to learn about mine, and then one day I saw him no more. I went my way and he went his, and it has been many years, but I remember him still. We had been in the Army together.

What provoked this thought is Houston and its devastation — and now Florida and the Caribbean. We have been repeatedly told and shown how people have pitched in to help one another. The poor helped the rich and the rich helped the poor, and people of all races rescued each other. In Texas, this was called the Texas Spirit, and while my inclination is to mock and question everything about Texas, I will take a pass this time. The stories were convincing.

Full article here: http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/national-service-unite-polarized-america-article-1.3487902
 

brosil

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#2
He has a point but I don't see a practical way to implement it. We have an effective military because we don't have a draft. Most of our national programs are for the poor. I don't see a practical way to do it.
 

gringott

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Work corps. You need welfare, move them in to communal type living like the old Army, food clothing housing provided and a monthly stipend - half in cash, half to savings to be released when the human failure leaves.

Work will be physical, on local government projects.
 

Thecrensh

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#4
In theory, yes. In practice? I don't know. Like minded people are going to migrate to each other. Overall it probably would be a good thing, but there would be pockets of hate.

There was a shop on my first ship during my Navy time...it was the supply shop. All the spare parts were kept their and documented. Every time I went down to get a spare part for the radar, their discussions stopped and it was very awkward. They never said or did anything to me, but I felt malevolence from the guys there...looks and "aura" of the place. I never thought much about it.

Then one day after I was stationed on my second ship (across the pier), I was watching the news and saw one of the guys from that shop. He and a group of other guys had kidnapped, tortured, gang-raped and killed a white girl (google Missy McGloughlin Charleston) for "400 years of slavery". The group that was on my first ship was probably part of the reason he took part in such a heinous crime...these thoughts don't normally get acted on in isolation.

I'm sure there are pockets of white supremacists in the military as well...I just don't have any experience with them.
 

phoneman

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#5
On my ship when Dr King was killed black sailors were jumping white sailors and beating them. During this time many from my crew from the north, told me and others from the south that we were racist. Then one by one some of the white sailors told me how they stood guard over family property armed with guns during the black riots up north. Didn't want to acknowledge this publicly. Couldn't show any agreement with southern trailer trash. We didn't have all those riots down south. Many people hunt in the south and have guns, and know how to use them.
 

gringott

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In theory, yes. In practice? I don't know. Like minded people are going to migrate to each other. Overall it probably would be a good thing, but there would be pockets of hate.

There was a shop on my first ship during my Navy time...it was the supply shop. All the spare parts were kept their and documented. Every time I went down to get a spare part for the radar, their discussions stopped and it was very awkward. They never said or did anything to me, but I felt malevolence from the guys there...looks and "aura" of the place. I never thought much about it.

Then one day after I was stationed on my second ship (across the pier), I was watching the news and saw one of the guys from that shop. He and a group of other guys had kidnapped, tortured, gang-raped and killed a white girl (google Missy McGloughlin Charleston) for "400 years of slavery". The group that was on my first ship was probably part of the reason he took part in such a heinous crime...these thoughts don't normally get acted on in isolation.

I'm sure there are pockets of white supremacists in the military as well...I just don't have any experience with them.
Back about 1989 - 1991 the Army conducted a fact finding investigation based on accusations that there were white supremacists in various units. After a long and drawn out investigation, they came back with there really wasn't a white supremacist problem - there was a black gang member problem ACROSS the Army, not isolated.
That investigation was quickly buried.
 

the_shootist

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#8
Back about 1989 - 1991 the Army conducted a fact finding investigation based on accusations that there were white supremacists in various units. After a long and drawn out investigation, they came back with there really wasn't a white supremacist problem - there was a black gang member problem ACROSS the Army, not isolated.
That investigation was quickly buried.
Makes you long for the good old days, doesn't it? I don't recall any black gangs back then, do you folks? They seemed to be much more willing to stay away from making trouble back in those days and much lighter on their feet....



Seriously, the more we tolerate the black bullshit the worse it gets. Doesn't anyone see that yet???
 

Thecrensh

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#9
Makes you long for the good old days, doesn't it? I don't recall any black gangs back then, do you folks? They seemed to be much more willing to stay away from making trouble back in those days and much lighter on their feet....



Seriously, the more we tolerate the black bullshit the worse it gets. Doesn't anyone see that yet???
I don't long for those day at all...def not "good". It isn't a black problem...it's a thug subculture problem and that isn't limited to blacks or hispanics.
 

the_shootist

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I don't long for those day at all...def not "good". It isn't a black problem...it's a thug subculture problem and that isn't limited to blacks or hispanics.
Not all blacks were hung in those days either. A great many built a good life and were well respected. Why weren't they hung if they were black? Me thinks we don't give our forefathers enough credit!
 

bb28

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#11
No, the government is already in our business enough. I already pay enough in taxes and regulatory BS. We don't need to add mandatory public indentured service on top of that. And, if it is not indentured, then it will be just another welfare check that I will be generously contributing.

bb
 

Pyramid

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#12
Agree with brosil. How do you practically implement such a program? .Gov programs have become money sinks to redistribute wealth from the producers to the leeches. Some of FDR's "New Deal" initiatives worked out ok, like the Civilian Conservation Corps. CCC planted millions of trees, built buildings, trails, bridges, docks, etc. that remain today on our public lands. The CCC program put a lot of poor, unemployed people to work who gained some skills and work ethic, as opposed to loading an EBT card and Section 8 housing every month for the generational deadbeats we see today.

For what it's worth, The Confederation of Helvetica has a semi-mandatory military service for men; women may enlist voluntarily if they wish. I don't recall the details, but Swiss men can "opt out" if they have health issues or are a conscientious objector, they just have to pay a 3% higher income tax rate in lieu of serving for the same time period. Basic training is something like 6 months with a 3 week commitment per year thereafter until 300 days of total service is met. They keep their uniforms and firearms at home during this period, which obviously makes CH a difficult target from foreign invasions and terriorists. I'm not promoting this concept, but it is hard to argue with most of the CH reasoning, as they are arguably one of the most intelligent, wealthy, and stable nation in the world. There is also a tremendous amount of unity and national pride in Swiss folks, regardless of the regional Canton and if they speak Swiss-German, French, Italian, or Romansh. M2C and good luck out there folks.
 

mayhem

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#13
Work corps. You need welfare, move them in to communal type living like the old Army, food clothing housing provided and a monthly stipend - half in cash, half to savings to be released when the human failure leaves.

Work will be physical, on local government projects.
Most excellent idea. Didn't Slick sign some law requiring just that? Look, we need change at the bottom and get this everyone is equal crap out of our schools. Until kids grow up knowing failure they will never amount to a hill of beans. My personal failures far exceed my successes, but the successes made more money. No risk, no gain.
 

the_shootist

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Most excellent idea. Didn't Slick sign some law requiring just that? Look, we need change at the bottom and get this everyone is equal crap out of our schools. Until kids grow up knowing failure they will never amount to a hill of beans. My personal failures far exceed my successes, but the successes made more money. No risk, no gain.
You learned quite a bit from your failures, isn't that right? Failure is part of a good learning path!
 

Silver

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#15
Most excellent idea. Didn't Slick sign some law requiring just that? Look, we need change at the bottom and get this everyone is equal crap out of our schools. Until kids grow up knowing failure they will never amount to a hill of beans. My personal failures far exceed my successes, but the successes made more money. No risk, no gain.
The secret to success is going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm. Churchill
 

mayhem

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#16
You learned quite a bit from your failures, isn't that right? Failure is part of a good learning path!
Tonight's excuse is I'm really tired and should stop posting. Only had two hours sleep last night.

Yes failures really hurt, but my daddy would pick me up and whoop my butt if I didn't have at it again. Today you get warm milk and cookies.
 

brosil

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#17
Work corps. You need welfare, move them in to communal type living like the old Army, food clothing housing provided and a monthly stipend - half in cash, half to savings to be released when the human failure leaves.

Work will be physical, on local government projects.
No. You're concentrating on the poor again. For it to work, you have to have a full cross section of society mixed together. All races, all parts of the country, all economic levels forced to work as a team. That's why I don't see it as practical at this time.
 

brosil

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#18
Makes you long for the good old days, doesn't it? I don't recall any black gangs back then, do you folks? They seemed to be much more willing to stay away from making trouble back in those days and much lighter on their feet....



Seriously, the more we tolerate the black bullshit the worse it gets. Doesn't anyone see that yet???
I'd like to point out that about 2/3rds of the folks levitating in the 1920s and 30s were white.
 

gringott

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I'd like to point out that about 2/3rds of the folks levitating in the 1920s and 30s were white.
Good point, another myth shattered. Just like the old saw about minorities being over represented in the Vietnam War, the numbers prove it to be a lie.
 

gringott

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No. You're concentrating on the poor again. For it to work, you have to have a full cross section of society mixed together. All races, all parts of the country, all economic levels forced to work as a team. That's why I don't see it as practical at this time.
I plead guilty.
More to the point of the OP, I served both in a draftee Army and the Modern Volunteer Army [MVA]. I was the only Regular Army volunteer in my company my first time through basic training. I was also the youngest.

My humble opinion, both Army types have merits. Draft Army had a much better mix of economic class types. MVA had a force that wanted to be there, at least at first, leading to better morale, higher state of training. Less of the Lifer vs. Joe conflict. Theoretically, all soldiers in the MVA are "professionals".
For a national service type Army, it must be without deferments, all must be included, rich or poor, etc. Alternatives should be available to conscientious objectors. Otherwise you end up with some groups grossly under represented, such as Jews and the rich / politically connected, and some groups over represented, such as white blue collar.