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Catastrophism thread

Cigarlover

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#81
If you've been following the Suspicious observers channel and Ben's series on catastrophe, here's another rabbit hole to go down. This book is what ben started with on his channel. Now we have the book and another channel to follow for the rest of the story. :) This video is just an introduction.

 

Thecrensh

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#82
If you've been following the Suspicious observers channel and Ben's series on catastrophe, here's another rabbit hole to go down. This book is what ben started with on his channel. Now we have the book and another channel to follow for the rest of the story. :) This video is just an introduction.


I don't buy the earth's crust rotation 90 degrees in a couple of hours. That would destroy all human life on Earth. I can see it shifting 30 degrees in a few days though...that would allow some humans to remain.
 

Cigarlover

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#83
I don't buy the earth's crust rotation 90 degrees in a couple of hours. That would destroy all human life on Earth. I can see it shifting 30 degrees in a few days though...that would allow some humans to remain.
I agree. It's a tough one to wrap my head around as well. And that other guy saying this happens every 12068 years or so, not sure I am on board with that either. There does seem to be something that happens but does the human population expand to 10 billion then get knocked back to a few hundred or thousand every 12k years? If so it seems like we should be uncovering hoards of human remains from 12k years ago like we do the wooly mammoths and there were only a few million of them.
Other than the foundations that the pyramids sit on which probably are much older than the pyramids and speculation is that they just built over the top of ancient sites, there really isn't much evidence of any huge civilization prior to the period around 12k years ago. Oh there is the city under water off the coast of india I guess. Dwarka i think it's called. Then those places in Bolivia that has some fairly advanced stone work. There may be a lot more evidence right off of the coasts around the world but not much exploration has been done there. Oh and the caves and underground cities around the world.. Is that really because of crustal displacement or is it something else like CME"s?

Another thing is that supposedly this was supposed to be a common occurrence through the galaxy and universe and although we have seen a few pop off like mini novas, you would think if this was common we would be seeing these things pop off like popcorn and happening all the time.
 

Thecrensh

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#84
I agree. It's a tough one to wrap my head around as well. And that other guy saying this happens every 12068 years or so, not sure I am on board with that either. There does seem to be something that happens but does the human population expand to 10 billion then get knocked back to a few hundred or thousand every 12k years? If so it seems like we should be uncovering hoards of human remains from 12k years ago like we do the wooly mammoths and there were only a few million of them.
Other than the foundations that the pyramids sit on which probably are much older than the pyramids and speculation is that they just built over the top of ancient sites, there really isn't much evidence of any huge civilization prior to the period around 12k years ago. Oh there is the city under water off the coast of india I guess. Dwarka i think it's called. Then those places in Bolivia that has some fairly advanced stone work. There may be a lot more evidence right off of the coasts around the world but not much exploration has been done there. Oh and the caves and underground cities around the world.. Is that really because of crustal displacement or is it something else like CME"s?

Another thing is that supposedly this was supposed to be a common occurrence through the galaxy and universe and although we have seen a few pop off like mini novas, you would think if this was common we would be seeing these things pop off like popcorn and happening all the time.
But that's the thing. Conventional "history" tells us that Stonehenge, the Pyramids, Myan temples, Macchu Picchu, Tiuanacu, etc. are no more than 3-4k years old...that is, until the discovery of Gobekli Tepe...which has been confirmed to about 12K years ago. That alone should call into question the dates for all the other sites (well, many of them at least). But it won't.

Maybe sites like the Pyramids are actually remnants of civilization from 12k years ago??
 

Cigarlover

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#87
Seems like in order to prove or disprove these theories you need a well rounded education in several disciplines. For now I am going to say the diehold foundations theory is interesting but in my mind, still just theory. I suspect that part may be true and other parts, not true.

What we know as fact is that the Heinrich events are real. They do seem to occur every 12k years or so.
The geological evidence would seem to suggest something is impacting earth, could be a micro nova or could be a meteor.
For it to be a meteor on such a regular interval doesn't seem plausible.
The earth stopping and changing direction every 12k years also doesn't seem plausible. If we go back to Randalls videos and his work out west, it's very obvious there was a huge meltwater event that caused the erosion. If the earth stopped spinning and changed direction and the oceans washed over the continents there should be really obvious evidence of that as well.
If you look at he scablands it's for the most part, pretty barren, even 10-12k years later. If the oceans washed over the continents most continents would look similar to the scablands would they not?
The micro spherules found all over the place at the 12k year boundary are pretty good evidence that there was a solar outburst.
Ancient myths describe the floods all over the planet. The ice sheets melting and causing rapid sea rise would certainly explain this.

Are there any ancient myths talking about the sun and a bombardment from space?
I'm not looking at ancient DNA and how it's being used to try and follow migration paths. It's interesting that much of the work focuses on the last 10k years. Or rather starting at about that time period. 8-10k years ago it looks like the farmers were coming out of turkey and expanding through the mediterranean.
There is still opinions that people came over the land bridge between Russia and the US and down into mainland US. However, I have seen other information stating that the clovis sites appears to be heading west. Or more northwest to be exact. We also have the Kooteney indians in Colorado who say their history goes back at least 10k years. Seems to me that populations were well established in north America sooner than the experts think. It also doesn't seem very plausible that people would walk across siberia and down through Alaska to get to a place that was ice free. It would take an enormous amount of time to do that and hunter gatherers just wouldn't be able to make that trek. Thats just my opinion of course.

Something certainly happened back then to wipe out the mega fauna. It looks like the human population was knocked back pretty good as well.

I'm going to continue to look at the migration patterns from the past as much as possible. Should give a starting point and from there can try and figure out how people survived. It does look like there is more than 1 starting point though. Could be the rockies as well as Turkey and also Africa.

There are also mud core samples from the bottom of the oceans and those are stored at some university in Ohio. Should be easy to contact them and see what evidence they have for events at 12k year intervals. Those events should line up with the ice core data.

Those are my random thoughts for now. :).
 

TAEZZAR

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#88
Remember, "A problem is not a problem, IF there is NO solution ! I see no problem. :don't know:
 

Cigarlover

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#89
Here's a geology professor from Wa state. I've watched a lot of his stuff on the gold regions out there as well.

 

Thecrensh

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#90
Seems like in order to prove or disprove these theories you need a well rounded education in several disciplines. For now I am going to say the diehold foundations theory is interesting but in my mind, still just theory. I suspect that part may be true and other parts, not true.

What we know as fact is that the Heinrich events are real. They do seem to occur every 12k years or so.
The geological evidence would seem to suggest something is impacting earth, could be a micro nova or could be a meteor.
For it to be a meteor on such a regular interval doesn't seem plausible.
The earth stopping and changing direction every 12k years also doesn't seem plausible. If we go back to Randalls videos and his work out west, it's very obvious there was a huge meltwater event that caused the erosion. If the earth stopped spinning and changed direction and the oceans washed over the continents there should be really obvious evidence of that as well.
If you look at he scablands it's for the most part, pretty barren, even 10-12k years later. If the oceans washed over the continents most continents would look similar to the scablands would they not?
The micro spherules found all over the place at the 12k year boundary are pretty good evidence that there was a solar outburst.
Ancient myths describe the floods all over the planet. The ice sheets melting and causing rapid sea rise would certainly explain this.

Are there any ancient myths talking about the sun and a bombardment from space?
I'm not looking at ancient DNA and how it's being used to try and follow migration paths. It's interesting that much of the work focuses on the last 10k years. Or rather starting at about that time period. 8-10k years ago it looks like the farmers were coming out of turkey and expanding through the mediterranean.
There is still opinions that people came over the land bridge between Russia and the US and down into mainland US. However, I have seen other information stating that the clovis sites appears to be heading west. Or more northwest to be exact. We also have the Kooteney indians in Colorado who say their history goes back at least 10k years. Seems to me that populations were well established in north America sooner than the experts think. It also doesn't seem very plausible that people would walk across siberia and down through Alaska to get to a place that was ice free. It would take an enormous amount of time to do that and hunter gatherers just wouldn't be able to make that trek. Thats just my opinion of course.

Something certainly happened back then to wipe out the mega fauna. It looks like the human population was knocked back pretty good as well.

I'm going to continue to look at the migration patterns from the past as much as possible. Should give a starting point and from there can try and figure out how people survived. It does look like there is more than 1 starting point though. Could be the rockies as well as Turkey and also Africa.

There are also mud core samples from the bottom of the oceans and those are stored at some university in Ohio. Should be easy to contact them and see what evidence they have for events at 12k year intervals. Those events should line up with the ice core data.

Those are my random thoughts for now. :).
I lived in Charleston in the early 90s and one day a Univ of SC professor took his team to a site nearby and dug down deeper than they ever had before...and found signs of human civilization. I think it was dated back to around 9000B.C. or so, but I seem to remember that they went below the C-T layer (the 12.7K YBP layer). When CNN interviewed him he literally said "we never dug so deep before because we didn't think we'd find anything...". Right there he revealed to me the narrow-mindedness of "science".
 

Cigarlover

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#91
I lived in Charleston in the early 90s and one day a Univ of SC professor took his team to a site nearby and dug down deeper than they ever had before...and found signs of human civilization. I think it was dated back to around 9000B.C. or so, but I seem to remember that they went below the C-T layer (the 12.7K YBP layer). When CNN interviewed him he literally said "we never dug so deep before because we didn't think we'd find anything...". Right there he revealed to me the narrow-mindedness of "science".
Unfortunately the gov has gotten way to involved with science. To the point that no one can believe much of any of it anymore. Probably why we are having this discussion. :).

I probably mentioned this earlier in the thread but seems like if you lower the ocean levels there is a larger mass in the central atlantic. Off the coast of portugal. In addition, the US coastline would also extend much further out. Gulf of Mx would be a puddle. I'm sure we lost a shitload of civilizations around the world when the flood hit, probably including around the coast of the US.
Lets go back further and we have at least 240,000 years of human history thats really not accounted for.
What we do have is Gobekli type, ancient Egypt and perhaps the oldest of all, that place in indonesia they are working on now. Looks like at least 24k years old though.
We went from stone age to today in 10k years. I'm sure we could have done this before. With more land exposed it would have been easier to get around as well.
 

Thecrensh

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#92
Unfortunately the gov has gotten way to involved with science. To the point that no one can believe much of any of it anymore. Probably why we are having this discussion. :).

I probably mentioned this earlier in the thread but seems like if you lower the ocean levels there is a larger mass in the central atlantic. Off the coast of portugal. In addition, the US coastline would also extend much further out. Gulf of Mx would be a puddle. I'm sure we lost a shitload of civilizations around the world when the flood hit, probably including around the coast of the US.
Lets go back further and we have at least 240,000 years of human history thats really not accounted for.
What we do have is Gobekli type, ancient Egypt and perhaps the oldest of all, that place in indonesia they are working on now. Looks like at least 24k years old though.
We went from stone age to today in 10k years. I'm sure we could have done this before. With more land exposed it would have been easier to get around as well.

Yeah...there are examples of items such as gold chains, hammers and such that are embedded in chunks of coal. IF civilization didn't form until 2500B.C., then how were things like hammers and necklaces made by hunter-gatherers? The mere existence of these items is scoffed away by "academics" because we all know that civilization is more advanced than it ever has been before....(big assumption).

I was thinking tonight about this...if, in 10k years, archeologists were digging in the Amazon rain forest and came across camp sites, arrow heads, stone implements, they would assume that today's civilization was mere stone-aged people incapable of anything more than hunter-gatherer type behavior (with the odd shamanistic religion) when the reality is, we've put people on the moon. Why couldn't that have been the case 50k years ago?
 

Thecrensh

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#93
Unfortunately the gov has gotten way to involved with science. To the point that no one can believe much of any of it anymore. Probably why we are having this discussion. :).

I probably mentioned this earlier in the thread but seems like if you lower the ocean levels there is a larger mass in the central atlantic. Off the coast of portugal. In addition, the US coastline would also extend much further out. Gulf of Mx would be a puddle. I'm sure we lost a shitload of civilizations around the world when the flood hit, probably including around the coast of the US.
Lets go back further and we have at least 240,000 years of human history thats really not accounted for.
What we do have is Gobekli type, ancient Egypt and perhaps the oldest of all, that place in indonesia they are working on now. Looks like at least 24k years old though.
We went from stone age to today in 10k years. I'm sure we could have done this before. With more land exposed it would have been easier to get around as well.

As for the large land mass in the C. Atlantic, it's extremely interesting that the time Plato gave for the sinking of Atlantis is exactly around the time of the great meltwater pulses and megafauna extinctions in N. America. What an astounding guess.
 

Cigarlover

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#95
Here's a very good presentation by Robert Schoch. I watched this one awhile back and just ran into it again. This was from 2014 and he was already saying a lot of what is coming to light from other presenters now. The solar outbursts stuff is the 2nd hr of the video or so but the first part is also worth watching.
 

Thecrensh

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#96
Here's a very good presentation by Robert Schoch. I watched this one awhile back and just ran into it again. This was from 2014 and he was already saying a lot of what is coming to light from other presenters now. The solar outbursts stuff is the 2nd hr of the video or so but the first part is also worth watching.
I have to admit, the first half was a yawner and I couldn't get past his voice. But when he began to warm up and get into the things that we've discussed, it became very interesting. Thanks!
 

michael59

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#98

michael59

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#99
IDK why that short clip designated 3,000 years as they figured the lava flow that blocked the outlet happened 600K years ago....and the fact that the Uruntu or what ever civilization was considered a myth. Humm? Is this where the lady of the lake comes from?
 

Cigarlover

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Nice find.. Added to my reading list. :).

I'm planning on finishing my pond this spring and was going to go down about 40' so I can stock it with trout.. Thinking I may go even deeper now just to see whats down there. I'd like to go down to at least the end of the younger dryus period just to see whats there. It's going to be a little tricky since I think my property is right on the edge of the last glacial boundray. And I do mean right on the edge. I am 1 1/4 miles down an old dirt road, high hills on both sides and the road terminates just past my house. The end of the road is bowl shaped so I think the glacier ended here after it pushed up these hills and then melted off.. I just got some gold pans in yesterday and going to check the stream on the front edge of my property. All of the runoff from this end of the road comes off of these hills and flows just on the front edge of my property so if there's any gold in these hills it would be there. The leading edge of the glaciers is where glacier gold is supposed to be found.

The geology of Ohio is supposedly 300 million years or so ago there was a shallow sea here.