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ds_mustang

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I wouldn't discount the king: Bitcoin. Alts are good for high risk speculation at present, but remember most of them aren't going to make it. Even Eth is questionable right now, in my mind anyway. Bitcoin isn't going anywhere and is the safest play IMHO. And, it's half price right now from what it was a couple months ago. Buy a little at the same time each week/month and forget about it. Let me know how it goes in a few years.

ETA: I bought my daughter $50 in Bitcoin in 2019 for her birthday. It's worth much more today, even after this cyclical bear.
IMO the future of Bitcoin is more questionable than ETH. Yes the eth mainchain is expensive to use, but that's because it's being used so much. Look at the above list of crypto with cheap fees, it's a list of tokens nobody wants or uses. Ethereum is hitting its current limits on usage and constantly setting new standards across the crypto space and is the center of DeFi and NFTs. Does that sound like a crypto with a questionable future? Also freedom has a cost. Things that are "free" have hidden costs that are likely worse than a fee.

Meanwhile Bitcoin doesn't do much and has two major political problems that put it at risk: (1) too much energy use, and (2) it's goal for its use case is to replace the dollar as a global reserve/trade asset. The first issue has environmentalists wanting to globally ban it. The second issue is going to put it right in the crosshairs of this new Biden executive order on crypto and national security.
 
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ds_mustang

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This would not be correct, as we have all seen during donate time,
the vig fees are there at paypal,

donate x, and only y makes it to the end
To say nothing of the fact your transactions have gatekeepers and are not remotely private.
 

specsaregood

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This would not be correct, as we have all seen during donate time,
the vig fees are there at paypal,

donate x, and only y makes it to the end
How do you have it setup? Receiving donations has a fee, but friends and family have none from when I have used it.
Sending domestic personal transactions

When you send money (initiated from the "Friends and Family" tab of the "Send Money" flow) to, or receive money into your PayPal account from, friends and family without making an underlying commercial transaction (that is, the payment is not for the purchase of goods or services or for making any other commercial transaction), we call that a "personal transaction".

The rates relating to personal transactions are set out below:
PayPal balance or a bank account Fee is waived
 

Scorpio

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got it, never have tried to use it for anything other than mig
 

specsaregood

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got it, never have tried to use it for anything other than mig
yeah. fortunately? I've been in the position to send money to family and friends in need for a couple decades now and have been using paypal during much of that time due to the reasons I stated. I have no love for paypal otherwise; but it does work.
 

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Uhm, well the most obvious reason is that I can send money to family or friends in need with paypal at ZERO cost (no fees for either party), and they get it instantly.

From a merchant stand point it works, is easy too integrate, and is ubiquitous -- all your customers have access to it and are familiar with it. You can save transaction information and use it for future charges or set up subscription/automated payments. There are built in fraud prevention measures and more.

Crypto services (that I am familiar with) are nowhere near as full featured or reliable as paypals merchant services.

Until they decide that they need to raise money from that service as well. Or the IRS "forces" them to drop it.
 

ds_mustang

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Another point that is critical to understanding the fee discussion: Fees on most crypto like Bitcoin are for the trivia of transmitting coins. Fees on ethereum are for innumerable complex and highly valuable operations like managing loans, minting NFTs, bundling operations from other networks, etc. To compare eth fees to bitcoin fees is like comparing apples and computers.
 

specsaregood

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Until they decide that they need to raise money from that service as well. Or the IRS "forces" them to drop it.
Well one could be paralyzed with worry about what could theoretically happen and never do anything.
But you asked, "The biggest question here is why would people use PayPal, lol." so I gave a couple simple examples.

I've integrated with well over a dozen payment processing solutions in my career, even helped build the API for one. Paypals solutions are still one of the easiest and most reliable for merchants. They have been successful for a reason.

Bitcoin's 10minute confirmation requirement with multiple confirmations to ensure payment is a non-starter for many ecommerce transactions.
 

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Another point that is critical to understanding the fee discussion: Fees on most crypto like Bitcoin are for the trivia of transmitting coins. Fees on ethereum are for innumerable complex and highly valuable operations like managing loans, minting NFTs, bundling operations from other networks, etc. To compare eth fees to bitcoin fees is like comparing apples and computers.

What do you think of the Ethereum competitors like Solono or ...?
 

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Well one could be paralyzed with worry about what could theoretically happen and never do anything.
But you asked, "The biggest question here is why would people use PayPal, lol." so I gave a couple simple examples.

I've integrated with well over a dozen payment processing solutions in my career, even helped build the API for one. Paypals solutions are still one of the easiest and most reliable for merchants. They have been successful for a reason.

Bitcoin's 10minute confirmation requirement with multiple confirmations to ensure payment is a non-starter for many ecommerce transactions.

Yea, I understand 10 minute confirm times are a no go. I was more looking at Paypal's 8 DAY settlement period, WTF. And we know they have gone woke so it will be pretty easy for them to start making like tough for Consertive merchants if they want.
 

specsaregood

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Yea, I understand 10 minute confirm times are a no go. I was more looking at Paypal's 8 DAY settlement period, WTF. And we know they have gone woke so it will be pretty easy for them to start making like tough for Consertive merchants if they want.
yeah, like gun-related businesses. One of our customers that used paypal for a dozen different businesses, needed an account for a new gun-related business. They found a processor that would accept gun business and ended up moving all their businesses to it.
 
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Lancers32

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Bitcoin will end up with a fixed supply I understand there is no limit to how many ETH will be created.
 

ds_mustang

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What do you think of the Ethereum competitors like Solono or ...?
I like the SOL technology, though it's arguably more centralized and has had a number of public problems. But it's growing fast (which is probably most important), and I'm a fan of being diversified, so I hold some SOL and a few tiny SOL projects as lottery tickets.
 

ds_mustang

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Bitcoin will end up with a fixed supply I understand there is no limit to how many ETH will be created.
I don't think the fixed supply is a big a deal as its made out to be. Bitcoin will be inflating for a long time to come, and right now Bitcoin is inflating faster than Ethereum. After ETH's EIP-1559 change last year ETH issuance rate dropped below Bitcoin's for the first time. After Ethereum's switch to PoS this year it might even start to deflate supply. But really I don't think the issue is that critical. The important thing about issuance is it's reasonable, public, algorithmic, and is managed for the public good, not the benefit of governments/special interests.

As a final point I became convinced during the Bitcoin forks that bitcoin's supply won't be fixed as everyone thinks. During the forks I watched as political pressure changed Bitcoin's mandate (and code) from an electronic cash system to a store of value. So Bitcoin already has a precedent for change, the same as ETH. And it seems clear to me that once issuance drops low enough, there will be economic and political pressure from miners and other interests to change the issuance strategy. And once again we'll find bitcoin is only as immutable as general consensus is immutable (which is to say not immutable at all). So I expect they'll somehow switch to having a small inflation rate with the excuse of keeping the network secure or offsetting lost coins or something. They'll also probably change Bitcoin to PoS at some point in response to the environmental political attacks. Bottom line, bitcoin can change. If you want immutability, stick with gold.
 
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Lancers32

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I don't trust any of this stuff just a trade for me. I confess to not knowing anything about it.
 

ds_mustang

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I don't trust any of this stuff just a trade for me. I confess to not knowing anything about it.
I think there is incredible promise in crypto and I have my money where my convictions are. In particular I think innovations coming out of DeFi, stablecoins, and such are earth-shaking and will swallow the financial system. However crypto is still created and managed by humans. It will suffer from instability, hacks, forks, politics, bugs, scams, and every other flaw that arises from the foibles of humanity. It's an improvement on a government controlled money and financial system, but that's not saying much. Meanwhile gold is gold and will be there long after humans and their inventions are long gone.
 

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What do you think of the Ethereum competitors like Solono or ...?
Solana is great, cheap, and easy to use when it's functioning, lol. I do like it, but it has a ways to go to scale. I've personally been more interested in Avalanche (AVAX).
 

solarion

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Bitcoin will be inflating for a long time to come, and right now Bitcoin is inflating faster than Ethereum.
Come on man. I'm trying to ignore your ETH fixation here, but gimme a break.

There's 526% more ETH in existence right now than bitcoin and while bitcoin will indeed be inflating for another 118 years, that inflation will only add another 2.1m coins(11%). ...and it's ETH that rewound their blockchain to undo their own screw up. If one of these blockchains is to be thought of as immutable...it ain't Vitalik's baby. A bitcoin is 14.6x more valuable than an Ethereum 2.0 coin because it's a whole lot more rare and a whole lot more useful for nearly everyone using cryptos as a currency.

Pump ETH if you feel you need to do so, but it's painfully clear ETH sucks for 95% of people just trying to find a way to pay for stuff outside the banking system...which is the subject of this thread. Ethereum 2.0 cannot compete with bitcoin when it comes to general transactions. The transaction fees aren't even close to competitive between the two...bitcoin spanks ETH as a low cost payment alternative and the little bit of ETH being destroyed rather than paid out to miners isn't even making a dent in its inflation rate.
 

Lancers32

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Come on man. I'm trying to ignore your ETH fixation here, but gimme a break.

There's 526% more ETH in existence right now than bitcoin and while bitcoin will indeed be inflating for another 118 years, that inflation will only add another 2.1m coins(11%). ...and it's ETH that rewound their blockchain to undo their own screw up. If one of these blockchains is to be thought of as immutable...it ain't Vitalik's baby. A bitcoin is 14.6x more valuable than an Ethereum 2.0 coin because it's a whole lot more rare and a whole lot more useful for nearly everyone using cryptos as a currency.

Pump ETH if you feel you need to do so, but it's painfully clear ETH sucks for 95% of people just trying to find a way to pay for stuff outside the banking system...which is the subject of this thread. Ethereum 2.0 cannot compete with bitcoin when it comes to general transactions. The transaction fees aren't even close to competitive between the two...bitcoin spanks ETH as a low cost payment alternative and the little bit of ETH being destroyed rather than paid out to miners isn't even making a dent in its inflation rate.


This is what I understand and while I don't know much at all about it from what I hear BTC will have a fixed supply and we are over 80% there IIRC.
Until it costs next to nothing to use/spend why would anyone use it for that purpose? The whole NFT thing makes the whole space suspect to me but I am an old fashioned old fool and have a problem bringing myself to take any of this that seriously.
 

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Until it costs next to nothing to use/spend why would anyone use it for that purpose?
...
but I am an old fashioned old fool and have a problem bringing myself to take any of this that seriously.
I don't get the impression that ds_mustang is hungup on using it for something as simple as moving money around. In theory ETH and others have a lot more capabilities than that. I like the idea of using it for a stock exchange or other ownership contracts.

As to the taking payments/sending money: I have around 270 active customers and a couple hundred more that aren't currently active. Almost all are small or medium sized businesses. We are involved in their AR/AP process for over half of them, with many of them taking online payments.
To this day, not a single one has asked us about crypto options; and we would be the people they would ask about it if they were interested in the slightest.

From my view: either crypto for payments is a completely overblown fad or it has a LOT of room to grow. I'm ambivalent on which.
 

ds_mustang

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Come on man. I'm trying to ignore your ETH fixation here, but gimme a break.

There's 526% more ETH in existence right now than bitcoin and while bitcoin will indeed be inflating for another 118 years, that inflation will only add another 2.1m coins(11%). ...and it's ETH that rewound their blockchain to undo their own screw up. If one of these blockchains is to be thought of as immutable...it ain't Vitalik's baby. A bitcoin is 14.6x more valuable than an Ethereum 2.0 coin because it's a whole lot more rare and a whole lot more useful for nearly everyone using cryptos as a currency.

Pump ETH if you feel you need to do so, but it's painfully clear ETH sucks for 95% of people just trying to find a way to pay for stuff outside the banking system...which is the subject of this thread. Ethereum 2.0 cannot compete with bitcoin when it comes to general transactions. The transaction fees aren't even close to competitive between the two...bitcoin spanks ETH as a low cost payment alternative and the little bit of ETH being destroyed rather than paid out to miners isn't even making a dent in its inflation rate.
I agree Bitcoin is better for payments and as a currency than ETH. But what I said is true. Eth is now inflating at a lower rate than Bitcoin (due to fee burning), and after the POS switch completes later this year issuance will drop even lower and could go negative making ETH the first deflationary crypto. See below linked article.

I'm not particularly interested in the payments/currency use case. It's one use case, isn't very profitable, and has major political issues. BTC, BTH, dogecoin, and all the old crypto can fight over that use case. I'm busy watching as the smart contact ecosystem takes over the crypto space and metaverse. Bitcoin maxis are so focused on one protocol, it's like being fixated on email and missing the invention of browsers and the world wide web. "Yeah email is great, but have you seen this web thing...?"

If you don't like ETH take a look at ada, or sol, or dot, or avax, or algo, etc. ETH is the leader like Netscape was, but there are many choices.

 
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I enjoy this thread. Haven't got the first clue how to MINE, STORE, or BUY cryptos. Just a Silverite and Goldbug enjoying the conversation.
:popcorn:
 

solarion

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But what I said is true.
True, ....and very misleading. If I print up 120 million of something, and then release a patch to lower the inflation of that something by a few percent of new supply(meaning a reduction in inflation...NOT deflation), it helps existing stake holders at the expense of new investors. None of this does a thing to change the fact that there are 100 million more ETH 2.0 in existence than bitcoins.

We'll have to wait and see what happens with the ETH 3.0 release...assuming it ever actually happens. I like PoS coins and stacked a few ETH in anticipation even though I dislike the way it's managed. The PoS transition will obviously again benefit large stakeholders disproportionately who will then be supplying the vast majority of new supply. I wish they'd simply begun with PoS and not screwed around with their blockchain so much, but that's kind of the hallmark of ETH 2.0.

I doubt ETH 2.0/3.0 ever deflates to any meaningful degree....and I doubt also the supply is ever much less than 100m > than the supply of bitcoin. A gap likely far greater than it sounds when it comes to moving coins/tokens as far greater numbers of bitcoin(as a percentage of total supply) have surely been lost than ETH 2.0. Back in the day lots of people tossed bitcoin around like nothing, heck a lot of people lost private keys and/or pass phrases and those bitcoin will never move again. That simply wasn't the case by the time ETH came along.

Until it costs next to nothing to use/spend why would anyone use it for that purpose?
Simple. Exchange rates, privacy, convenience, lower fees vs bank credit, etc. Try buying large(ish) quantities of physical gold, silver, and/or platinum with US dollars(bank credit) and compare that to payment with bitcoin. There are already so many restrictions upon the use of bank credit that bitcoin kicks the snot out of it for most purposes. Plus, like I said...exchange rates. If I can get 2300 ounces of silver or 36 ounces of gold in my hand for a single bitcoin...I'm making that trade all day long. I'm doing so as a means of efficiently reducing risk of exposure to the us dollar AND cryptocurrency volatility relative to the USDx.

Bitcoin/PM exchange rates gyrate wildly...particularly the btc/Ag exchange rate. That can be used to great advantage if one pays attention. This latest run up and crash of the BTC/USD exchange rate caused the BTC/Ag exchange rate to move from a high of 2300:1 down to as low as 1236:1. That's a 46% swing in a few months as BTC ran up to over $68k and then fell to $34k. People swapping BTC to PMs near the top of that run up are now sitting on lots of undervalued metal outside the scheisse dollar system while price inflation gobbles up dollar purchasing power.
 
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ds_mustang

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True, ....and very misleading. If I print up 120 million of something, and then release a patch to lower the inflation of that something by a few percent of new supply(meaning a reduction in inflation...NOT deflation), it helps existing stake holders at the expense of new investors. None of this does a thing to change the fact that there are 100 million more ETH 2.0 in existence than bitcoins.

We'll have to wait and see what happens with the ETH 3.0 release...assuming it ever actually happens. I like PoS coins and stacked a few ETH in anticipation even though I dislike the way it's managed. The PoS transition will obviously again benefit large stakeholders disproportionately who will then be supplying the vast majority of new supply. I wish they'd simply begun with PoS and not screwed around with their blockchain so much, but that's kind of the hallmark of ETH 2.0.

I doubt ETH 2.0/3.0 ever deflates to any meaningful degree....and I doubt also the supply is ever much less than 100m > than the supply of bitcoin. A gap likely far greater than it sounds when it comes to moving coins/tokens as far greater numbers of bitcoin(as a percentage of total supply) have surely been lost than ETH 2.0. Back in the day lots of people tossed bitcoin around like nothing, heck a lot of people lost private keys and/or pass phrases and those bitcoin will never move again. That simply wasn't the case by the time ETH came along.


Simple. Exchange rates, privacy, convenience, lower fees vs bank credit, etc. Try buying large(ish) quantities of physical gold, silver, and/or platinum with US dollars(bank credit) and compare that to payment with bitcoin. There are already so many restrictions upon the use of bank credit that bitcoin kicks the snot out of it for most purposes. Plus, like I said...exchange rates. If I can get 2300 ounces of silver or 36 ounces of gold in my hand for a single bitcoin...I'm making that trade all day long. I'm doing so as a means of efficiently reducing risk of exposure to the us dollar AND cryptocurrency volatility relative to the USDx.

Bitcoin/PM exchange rates gyrate wildly...particularly the btc/Ag exchange rate. That can be used to great advantage if one pays attention.
I'm with you on how annoying the execution of ethereum has been. But they've been paving a totally new idea that's several orders of magnitude more complex than Bitcoin. PoS wasn't ready when ethereum launched. Nobody knew all the difficulties of making secure smart contacts. It's done surprisingly well considering. There's now a lot of second and third generation smart contact projects coming online. Ethereum might not be the eventual largest smart contact network, but it's got a better chance than most I think.

The only thing I know for sure, is the bitcoin maxi notions of "only bitcoin matters" and "if bitcoin fails then all crypto fails" are wrong. Tech marches forward and tech that isn't marching forward won't be leading for long.
 
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solarion

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With you on most of that, but PoS has been around nearly as long as Proof-of-Work. Heck, I posted about PoS coins here about the time ETH was "born" and gave some away at that time. Battlecoin, zeitcoin, hobonickels, philosopher stone, and the grand daddy of all PoS coins...peercoin. I'd have to check on each one to be certain, but I believe they're all older than ETH. Peercoin was released in 2012 and pre-dates ETH "classic" by three years.

I forget the exact date of the Ethereum debacle where they were robbed because they were stupid and subsequently "rewound" their blockchain to undo all those transactions, split what we now call "Ethereum" off from the original chain, and renamed the original chain "Ethereum Classic", but it was only a few years back and well after PoS was a known quantity. I'd like ETH 2.0 a whole bunch more if it were PoS then...as it will allegedly become with the 3.0 incarnation.

 

Lancers32

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True, ....and very misleading. If I print up 120 million of something, and then release a patch to lower the inflation of that something by a few percent of new supply(meaning a reduction in inflation...NOT deflation), it helps existing stake holders at the expense of new investors. None of this does a thing to change the fact that there are 100 million more ETH 2.0 in existence than bitcoins.

We'll have to wait and see what happens with the ETH 3.0 release...assuming it ever actually happens. I like PoS coins and stacked a few ETH in anticipation even though I dislike the way it's managed. The PoS transition will obviously again benefit large stakeholders disproportionately who will then be supplying the vast majority of new supply. I wish they'd simply begun with PoS and not screwed around with their blockchain so much, but that's kind of the hallmark of ETH 2.0.

I doubt ETH 2.0/3.0 ever deflates to any meaningful degree....and I doubt also the supply is ever much less than 100m > than the supply of bitcoin. A gap likely far greater than it sounds when it comes to moving coins/tokens as far greater numbers of bitcoin(as a percentage of total supply) have surely been lost than ETH 2.0. Back in the day lots of people tossed bitcoin around like nothing, heck a lot of people lost private keys and/or pass phrases and those bitcoin will never move again. That simply wasn't the case by the time ETH came along.


Simple. Exchange rates, privacy, convenience, lower fees vs bank credit, etc. Try buying large(ish) quantities of physical gold, silver, and/or platinum with US dollars(bank credit) and compare that to payment with bitcoin. There are already so many restrictions upon the use of bank credit that bitcoin kicks the snot out of it for most purposes. Plus, like I said...exchange rates. If I can get 2300 ounces of silver or 36 ounces of gold in my hand for a single bitcoin...I'm making that trade all day long. I'm doing so as a means of efficiently reducing risk of exposure to the us dollar AND cryptocurrency volatility relative to the USDx.

Bitcoin/PM exchange rates gyrate wildly...particularly the btc/Ag exchange rate. That can be used to great advantage if one pays attention. This latest run up and crash of the BTC/USD exchange rate caused the BTC/Ag exchange rate to move from a high of 2300:1 down to as low as 1236:1. That's a 46% swing in a few months as BTC ran up to over $68k and then fell to $34k. People swapping BTC to PMs near the top of that run up are now sitting on lots of undervalued metal outside the scheisse dollar system while price inflation gobbles up dollar purchasing power.
To gain any long lasting traction don't these cryptos have to have more use than as a way to flip in and out of the metals? Is the end game to stabilize prices? Not sure how it would be any different than what we have now if that is not the case.
 

solarion

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To gain any long lasting traction don't these cryptos have to have more use than as a way to flip in and out of the metals? Is the end game to stabilize prices? Not sure how it would be any different than what we have now if that is not the case.
Not sure what you mean. A bitcoin in my wallet is already a whole lot more useful than an ounce of gold in my safe...at least as long as there's a blockchain and access to such. I can easily use the bitcoin to get food, water, and shelter...while the gold coin...unfortunately is only recognized as valuable by a select few.

IMO, the endgame is to offer an electronic alternative to fiat dog barf outside the banking system...just as gold bullion does physically. Clearly governments around the world are not going to allow that to happen without a huge ruckus. This helps explain why bitcoin in particular has found a whole lot more acceptance in parts of the world where the populace is largely unbanked. ...there's not much banking infrastructure to displace in Nigeria for instance.
Not sure how it would be any different than what we have now if that is not the case.
It's deflationary and de-centralized...it's very different in nearly every way. This is immediately apparent when one attempts to buy bullion online with bank credit(debit card) vs bitcoin. There are more fees with the bank credit, purchase limits, and can be blocked by the bank issuing the card. Bitcoin is wide open.

If I choose to use BTC to buy physical silver and have it shipped to me then I'll simply transmit the crypto and it'll happen. Yet when I've tried the same with more than a few thousand dollars worth of PMs online using bank credit, I'm told I'm not allowed to do so....because limits. Limits on MY money imposed by a bank issuing the card and the US federal regime.

I don't mean to seem insulting, but people that haven't used bitcoin(or altcoin) as a currency don't tend to appreciate the economic freedom they represent. This technology has the potential to do major damage to elected dictators' stranglehold on economic freedom around the world...THAT'S why they hate it so much. ...and unfortunately a whole lot of people don't trust or understand this and think it's just like bank credit...and therefore unimportant...which is simply not true.
 

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got a guy trying to pay me in crypt

$250 bones

so the guy purchases $250 of ether, but after fees is only 240.02 in his account ether value (9.98) fee

then he tries to transfer to me, where it is hit with another massive fee bringing the total actually arriving at destination down to 214.62

250-214.62 =35.38 = 14% total fees to accomplish the transaction

meaning, this whole idea of crypto is a bunch of hoo ha at those values,

ie worthless as everyone claims crypt to be eventually used for
Yeah, so Been confused as of late. Ya see, there was this sealed piece of silver got dropped in my lap from above. The Constitutional tone simply couldnt be more clear and concise and it has been my understanding that this very slogan quite possibly is the quintessential datapoint dad is the reason for the creation of the site in the first place.
But memories being what they are in time going the way it does I feel like maybe I misinterpreted the words but I'm struggling Define the word crypto or data or blockchain written anywhere.
Is there nano print I'm not seeing or maybe I was late again with my newsletter dues?
20220130_113020_HDR~2.jpg
 

Goldhedge

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GOOD or EVIL. Power of Blockchain is Unbannable​

Welcome to Freedom Unchained! We are living in a time where the Truth can't be Stopped! This Channel hopes to shine a light on that Truth about Law, Government Lies and Corruption, Correct Meaning of Words, and Help everyone to be a (wo)Man.
 

Lancers32

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Not insulting at all. Trying to get my head around it.
 

specsaregood

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If I choose to use BTC to buy physical silver and have it shipped to me then I'll simply transmit the crypto and it'll happen. Yet when I've tried the same with more than a few thousand dollars worth of PMs online using bank credit, I'm told I'm not allowed to do so....because limits. Limits on MY money imposed by a bank issuing the card and the US federal regime.
What is your remedy if they don't ship the silver to you after you have paid with your BTC?
 

Lancers32

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Currently I pay for everything with a credit card. Utilities groceries the whole nine yards right? Currently nobody accepts Bitcoin for payment. Since I live in the US I pay with $. Suppose they all accept Bitcoin as payment. Do you think you would not get screwed with the conversion when you go to pay the bill?
 

ds_mustang

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With you on most of that, but PoS has been around nearly as long as Proof-of-Work. Heck, I posted about PoS coins here about the time ETH was "born" and gave some away at that time. Battlecoin, zeitcoin, hobonickels, philosopher stone, and the grand daddy of all PoS coins...peercoin. I'd have to check on each one to be certain, but I believe they're all older than ETH. Peercoin was released in 2012 and pre-dates ETH "classic" by three years.

I forget the exact date of the Ethereum debacle where they were robbed because they were stupid and subsequently "rewound" their blockchain to undo all those transactions, split what we now call "Ethereum" off from the original chain, and renamed the original chain "Ethereum Classic", but it was only a few years back and well after PoS was a known quantity. I'd like ETH 2.0 a whole bunch more if it were PoS then...as it will allegedly become with the 3.0 incarnation.

The PoS protocols from back when ETH was launched had a number of issues that weren't fully solved. You'll notice those early PoS coins are gone or upgraded. There was a lot of discussion on how to launch ETH and I think the right decision was made... use well understood PoW mining and switch to PoS when it was more developed.

I disagreed with the blockchain rollback, but Ethereum (like most crypto) is community and market driven. If Bitcoin wanted to move from an electronic cash system to a store of value system by crippling its blocksize, that was their choice. If the Ethereum community decided to cancel a major hack by rolling back the blockchain, that was also their choice. In both cases there was a fork and the market chooses the winner--no point complaining about it, the market has spoken. In hindsight maybe they made the right choice... they showed how the community was in charge and could make hard decisions even over core philosophy. For as many people that hated the choice, there were clearly many more people who felt secure knowing future problems would be fixed if they could be and not just lived with for the sake of a philosophical position.
 

Scorpio

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The Constitutional tone simply couldnt be more clear and concise and it has been my understanding that this very slogan quite possibly is the quintessential datapoint dad is the reason for the creation of the site in the first place.

if you only understood what that really means,
then you may not be so brazen to put it up in a discussion of crypts,

I have spoken of it many times in the past,
 

Lancers32

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Is XRP a good alternative and why did the government go after it?
 

#48Fan

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Is XRP a good alternative and why did the government go after it?
I'm not a fan. It is very centralized. Govt went after them accusing them of being a security.
 

Lancers32

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I'm not a fan. It is very centralized. Govt went after them accusing them of being a security.


I know that. Assume the big banks run everything and we get to the point where the govt run by the banks want to make it illegal to hold crypto currency? What would they do?
 

ds_mustang

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Is XRP a good alternative and why did the government go after it?
Government went after Ripple because they could. Most of crypto understands banks and government are the problem and are structured decentralized--without centralized structures for government to go after. Ripple structured as a company and tried to work with banks and government and found out what happens.

I'm not a fan of XRP, it was created centralized, has no mining, company controlled the coins. Maybe things have changed somewhat but I'm still not interested. It seems to me some people like it because they don't understand market cap and think the low price means it's "cheap." Shib and doge are "cheap" in the same way and attract similarly clueless people.
 

Lancers32

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It comes down to this for me. Do you think the govt will allow Bitcoin or any other crypto to exist alongside of the current system or the coming FedCoin? They want total control and with paper money they have a hard time tracking. With a Fedcoin they can see every transaction and can collect every tax they choose. From what I understand every purchase made with Bitcoin is trackable on the blockchain right?
 

newmisty

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if you only understood what that really means,
then you may not be so brazen to put it up in a discussion of crypts,

I have spoken of it many times in the past,
I'm sorry that I made it seem like my message was directed at you. I was just venting from my soap box a bit. That is after all the basis of a discussion board.

Ya know it really won't kill ya to lighten up a bit.