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Daguerreotype images and those of other early processes

Hystckndle

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#1
Boy with book..jpg
09-10-2015.
Upon a helpful suggestion of Scorpio and and some personal thought, I have relocated this thread to this forum.
Scorpio considers this ( and so do I ) genre' to be an " other " investment.
He is correct.
The daguerreotype image is a " one off ".
A mid 19th century poloroid.
A silver coated copper plate created with " sweat equity ".
As with any collectible, even RE, the market values vary.
And a myriad of factors can determine the market price once you wish to sell.
Hopefully, this thread will enjoy its new home and will inspire others to trade that fiat.
For fiat will always be fiat.
But real tangibles for me....thats the ticket.
:)


Original thread started 01-14-13
On Daguerreotypes:
I started to put a couple of more daguerreotype images up on NewMistys’ show and tell thread today

http://www.goldismoney2.com/showthr...amp-TELL-THREAD-Bullion-Coins-Collections-etc

and then I noticed that the thread was in the Numismatics area and not general discussion. “ Opps; said I …my bad , I hope that NM did not think I was hijacking his thread ! "
You see, I had originally thought the thread was in general discussion so I apologize to NM as it was not my intent to post anything in the thread not coin / numismatic related. My only intent was to share a “silver” related collection.
I will start a new thread here to revist from time to time devoted to Dagurreotypes and perhaps other earlier photographic processes.
I will also endeavor to include some images that are not in my collection, as mine is a most modest one at best,
but that pertain to the earlier formative years of this country or that I find interesting as far as subject matter or image quality.
And of course without saying, any that pertain to the pursuit of real money.

To start:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daguerreotype

The daguerreotype pron.: /dəˈɡɛrətaɪp/ (French: daguerréotype) was the first commercially successful photographic process, invented by Louis-Jacques-Mandé Daguerre.
The physical daguerreotype itself is a direct positive made in the camera on a silvered copper plate.
The raw material for plates was called Sheffield plate, plating by fusion or cold-rolled cladding and was a standard hardware item produced by heating and rolling silver foil in contact with a copper support.
The surface of a daguerreotype is like a mirror, with the image made directly on the silvered surface; it is very fragile and can be rubbed off with a finger, and the finished plate has to be angled so as to reflect some dark surface in order to view the image properly.
Depending on the angle viewed and the color of the surface reflected into it, the image can change from a positive to a negative.
The cases provided to house daguerreotypes have a cover lined with velvet or plush to provide a dark surface that reflects into the plate for viewing....snip...

A recent acquisition of mine. Came in the mail while I as at the FUN show with the Southfork and the Solo. Very fine workmanship. +- 160 years old.
Regards to all.
 
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Hystckndle

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#2

Hystckndle

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#3
GOLD MINING 1.jpg
GOLD MiNING 2.jpg
MURPHY'S CAMP.jpg
GOLD MINING 3.jpg
GOLD MINING 5.jpg
The Gold Rush.
( NONE of which will be of mine on this thread...:vollkommenauf: pockets not deep enough )
 
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newmisty

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#4
Thank you HSN, I was happy with what you posted in the S&T thread but it probably is best to keep this in a separate category. I would like to see a SHOW and TELL thread for all things un-related to PMs if anyone is feeling up to making one. If not I''ll do it. I love the culture art and wisdom that our little board brings to the table. It's really a blessing to have such an environment as our message board.
 

southfork

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#5
There were actually a dealer or two at the fun show stack that deal in this type of photos.
 

Hystckndle

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#7
Thank you HSN, I was happy with what you posted in the S&T thread but it probably is best to keep this in a separate category. I would like to see a SHOW and TELL thread for all things un-related to PMs if anyone is feeling up to making one. If not I''ll do it. I love the culture art and wisdom that our little board brings to the table. It's really a blessing to have such an environment as our message board.
10-4, No worries. I just did not wanna step on any toes with my junk.
:cheerful:
 

Hystckndle

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#8
There were actually a dealer or two at the fun show stack that deal in this type of photos.
I saw a few, but you were covering a lot of ground !! It was hard to keep up !!! HAH.
The Southfork is one intense hunting dude !!:s9:
Seriously though, I checked them out later. Interesting dudes.
Guy had an ambrotype of a cat he said was James Buchanan. $ 26,000.00
Gag me at that number. talk to a museum maybe.
And he also had another couple of others that "were" Abraham Lincoln but were ambrotypes and not very good quality.
I dunno. Looked iffy to me and they were +- 3K , which IF a real AL maybe maybe maybe.
Another few booths had some stuff but they also were not the mirror silver finish of a daguerreotype.
Talked to a couple of them though. But 'twas not an image show...those are even farther and few between than coin shows...heh
 

Gold Rush

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#9
Hystckndle, Thanks for starting this thread! I think these are really cool!..Where I live, there are alot of antique malls, and little antique shops in the area, so at times I come across these..is there any advise you can give to a new collector?.....is there certain things to look for, that would make a Daguerreotype rarer then others? and are there any books or guides you can recommend to learn more about collecting these...I guess as far as a fair price to pay for Daguerreotypes when you come across them, it's the same with how much you like the image, and are willing to pay, or am I wrong?
 

newmisty

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#10
Like you need another thing to collect! :p
 

GOLDZILLA

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#11
I see these in the antique stores all the time. I always feel sorry for the families who lost these picture of their ancestors. Many times If I see a name on the back of one, I will buy it and try to find their family through the internet so that even if they do not have the original, they have a digital copy of picture of a family member and a face to put with the name.


http://genealogy.about.com/od/orphan_photos/Orphan_Photos_Rescued_Family_Memorabilia.htm
 

AgAuGal

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#12
very cool, neat idea for collection.
 

Ragnarok

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#13
I wonder how many if those ended up in the refiner's bins over the decades. :vollkommenauf:

R.
 

REO 54

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#14
The Gold Rush.
( NONE of which will be of mine on this thread...:vollkommenauf: pockets not deep enough )
Miners 49's? Sure looks like the foothills of the Sierras.

Nice pic's.Beautiful frames. :thumbs_up:
 

Hystckndle

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#15
Hystckndle, Thanks for starting this thread! I think these are really cool!..Where I live, there are alot of antique malls, and little antique shops in the area, so at times I come across these..is there any advise you can give to a new collector?.....is there certain things to look for, that would make a Daguerreotype rarer then others? and are there any books or guides you can recommend to learn more about collecting these...I guess as far as a fair price to pay for Daguerreotypes when you come across them, it's the same with how much you like the image, and are willing to pay, or am I wrong?
Hey there GR,
In the weeds a bit I am right now.
Not ignoring you, be back soon.
Haystack
 

Hystckndle

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#16
$T2eC16RHJGoE9nuQfRtIBQ7hHNdIOw~~60_57.jpg
Hystckndle, Thanks for starting this thread! I think these are really cool!..Where I live, there are alot of antique malls, and little antique shops in the area, so at times I come across these..is there any advise you can give to a new collector?.....is there certain things to look for, that would make a Daguerreotype rarer then others? and are there any books or guides you can recommend to learn more about collecting these...I guess as far as a fair price to pay for Daguerreotypes when you come across them, it's the same with how much you like the image, and are willing to pay, or am I wrong?
Hello Gold Rush,
I have been on a " side job" for the last two weeks and have not forgotten you.
I say " all work is good work " but I think sometimes I am a little excessive. :vollkommenauf: and forget to smell some of the roses around.
Yes !, Those little antique malls are good places. I used to go to ALL shows, but I got away from that. Just about anywhere is a good hunting ground.
What I look for are ( not in this order ) :
Process ( what kind it is )...I.E. no "mirror " finish = no daguerreotype, not a bad thing mind you.
Clarity
Image content.
Rarity I guess is in the eye of the beholder and people go nuts for different items.
Military stuff has a huge premium no matter what. I stay away from this stuff.
Folks with weapons are also popular as well as animals, outdoor scenes, identified folks, occupationals, post mortems,
etc etc.
Some people specialize in known photographers, backgrounds and a wide number of things.
Prices ( heh, like NM says...like you need something more to collect...:cheerful: ) vary as wide as the color spectrum.
You could in a years time have a nice quality # of images and never pay more than 100 for any one item.
On the other hand, it is really up to you as to what you will pay. As always, the market almost always sets the price
and in one out of 10 or 20 times you will get a " buy ". The internet has done a lot to level out pricing as well.
I have been a member of the Daguerrean Society for over 20 years now their website is interesting.
There are many books on the subject. I will try and list a few this week. I probably have 50 or more.
Here is a nice tinted image. The tint was applied AFTER the image was processed and I find it magical at times.
( as opposed to the digital in your face colors of todays images and films and teevee, the other end of the spectrum I guess )
Talk to you a little later GR. ( note...I always liked your handle 'cuz it reminded me of daguerreotypes ! )
 

Hystckndle

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#17
I see these in the antique stores all the time. I always feel sorry for the families who lost these picture of their ancestors. Many times If I see a name on the back of one, I will buy it and try to find their family through the internet so that even if they do not have the original, they have a digital copy of picture of a family member and a face to put with the name.

http://genealogy.about.com/od/orphan_photos/Orphan_Photos_Rescued_Family_Memorabilia.htm
That is pretty cool GZ !, I may need to try that for some therapy.
Yeah, I absolutely HATE it ( secretly ) of course when someone gives me ( used to happen frequently ) one of those old ( usually ratty )
velvet covered albums they picked up somewhere because I knew before I opened it that chances were lotto winning odds of me being
interested in even ONE image in there.
HAH.
And I just KNEW I could never throw it away.
Y'know those old Kodak slide carousels ? Someone gave me about 40 of those and each and every one was full of slides of some older couples
travels to all over the world. Berlin, Venice etc etc. Took me forever to decide what to do with them and to go through them. Still not done.
Talk to you later GZ. Thanks again for the link.
 

Hystckndle

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#18
BOYS WITH DARK HANDS.jpg
AB1.jpg
Kids with ' dark" hands.
Many would think they were gloves.
Upon closer inspection, IMHO you would find that the hands were dye stained.
Clothing business of their parents or even from trying to assist the family on the outside with endeavors of their own.
I dunno without closer inspection. Interesting these images.

Also, an outdoor scene, very candid and very sought after.
 

Hystckndle

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#19
FRAT GENTS 2.jpg
FRAT GENTS.jpg
Fraternal brothers.
You will find at least two of the gents in the closer up in the larger group image.
Note that the quality of the smaller group image is of the best I have ever seen.
 
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gringott

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#25
I really like the "hidden hand" dude, the guy with the bling belt, and the hot chick.

Super pictures. Keep 'em coming.
 

B00B001000

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#27
Thanks for the Photos, they were great, those 49'ers were really something, looks like the 'Long Tom" was the operation of choice. I have spent a lot of time around Virginia City, on the Comstock a very interesting place, consider the majority of silver and gold mined from the Comstock was sold for $ 2.00 for silver, and $5.00 ounce for gold. Has anyone on this post ever looked at the Sutro Tunnel??How about the " Big Bonanza" discovered by the " Big Four" on the Comstock.
 

Hystckndle

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#28
BRIDE.jpg
LINCOLN.jpg
BOOB, Thanks for the tips for researching a bit of history. I will look those up.
( Hey TomD, Where did your post go ? :cheerful: Bring it back whatever it was will ya ? )
A couple of other scans from the archives.
I have seen the bride image personally at the George Eastman House.
It is fantastic.
And the other one....
A Senator from a fine state of the union....my what we have become...:hmmmm2:
 

Hystckndle

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#29
OUTDOOR 1.jpg
OUTDOOR 2.jpg
A couple of outdoor scenes.
The surface of the plate after exposure and development is very fragile.
With the swipe of a cloth an exposed ( not covered with its protective glass ) plate can
lose the likeness imposed upon it forever. Scratches can appear after a glancing blow of a sleeve or fingernail.
Collectors seems to shy away from or impose sharp pricing penalties for sometimes the slightest imperfections.
Myself, I sometimes find that the character of the image is enhanced as in these two outdoor scenes.
 
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Hystckndle

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#30
CURLS.jpg
VEST.jpg
POST MORTEM 1.jpg
As with anything,
there are many variants of interest amongst collectors.
Some specialize in and seek out images marked on the case or the cover or the mat the name and location of the photographer
as in the image of this beautiful lady. " C.H. Williamson, Brooklyn "
Others ( like myself ) enjoy a nice hat or appreciate a sharp vest.
And second IMO only to military images, a very competitive group of folks vy for the post mortem images.
 
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Hystckndle

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#31
WILLIAMSON 1.jpg
OCCUPATIONAL 1.jpg
LITTLE GIRL 1.jpg
Another Williamson, an eye for how to present the ladies he had...
An occupational, what type of living did this chap engage in ?
And a spunky child, one that seemed ( possibly ) to enjoy posing for a portrait.
 
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Hystckndle

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#33
OCCUPATIONAL 3.jpg
OCCUPATIONAL 4.jpg
A few occupational images:
Note: In todays world of darn near plastic or virtual EVERYTHING;
I have a soft spot for just about any occupational---sweat equity --image.
 
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Hystckndle

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#34
WHITE HOUSE 1.jpg
CAPITAL 1.jpg
I wonder how many if those ended up in the refiner's bins over the decades. :vollkommenauf:
R.
Silver coated copper plates ? Hard to imagine the ones tossed away. :thumpdown:
The earliest know plates of the White House and the Capital were found in a California flea market in the early 1970's.
Taken by a gent named Plumbe.
In NYC as well as other locales, when you went to say his,
or Brady's or Anson's or Willamsons' galleries, it was custom to be able to view their works on the walls of the parlor.
I have read accounts of these visits where untold numbers of plates of celebrities of the day, politicians and prominent citizens were on display.
( is it wise to use the words politician and prominent citizen in the same sentence ? , maybe I should have swapped celebrity and put it next to politician...
seems more fitting those two close to each other )

What became of all of those images ?....sadly....I am afraid; many hit the smelter. :vollkommenauf:

Plumbe's work:
 
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Hystckndle

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#36
tinted 1.jpg
tinted 3.jpg
tinted 4.jpg
........yeah, I cannot sleep tonight....a couple of more from da archives and I gotta make myself
do some eyelid diversion.....

I am also crazy for tinted images although the pricing now reflects the scarcity.
The tinting, or gilding, done at the end of the process, just before the packaging, and
after the image ran the gauntlet of a total myriad of "murphyslawisms" is an entirely different twist.
Some images cause one to be in amazement while others have maybe a touch on the cheeks or on the tablecloth or something very simple.
Extra $ it was as well. Kind like that .25 and up charge for an extra pickle or tomato slice.
Dunno if they were as pushy back then as they are these days to " biggee " size it or add some cookies etc etc.
 
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Hystckndle

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#38
CHARACTER 1.jpg
CHARACTER 8.jpg
daguerreotype.jpg
FIREMEN.jpg
Probably should have said "20" characters above....lol
We overestimate our importance sometimes and many around us are quick to forget
the salt of the earth from which we came to be here. JHMO of course. :cheerful:
 
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Hystckndle

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#39
5 minutes, the process explained.
Way better than I could ever type it.
How anyone could produce some of the most exquisite images above with any
duplicity of quality is a skill I hold in the highest regard.

[video=youtube_share;N0Ambe4FwQk]
[/video]
 

Hystckndle

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#40
CASE NORMAL.jpg
MOTHER OF PEARL CASE 1.jpg
SENSITIVE MAN WITH CHILDREN.jpg
Images are housed in protective cases; small delicate things, the majority of which are
approximately the size of a box of cigarrettes.
Most are simple in design and covered with paper or leatherette or
were made from one of the first plastic processes.
A entire subculture exists about cases as well as mats and plates; yes, many of the
plates themselves are maker marked and images can be dated with studying the various makers.
Also the cover mats and their shape and design can be dated an give clues as to the timeframe the image was produced.
I have a number of " Mother of Pearl " cases.
I have always been fond of them.
 
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