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Dairy farming is dying: After 40 years, I'm done

Area51

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#41
Socialism is the means, not the stated ends.Cuba was socialist even while Castro lived like a King while most people starved. Venezuela is socialist even as the Maduro clan thrives while others starve.

You seem to believe it is socialism only if it yields the results you desire.
Any time you have government forcefully interfering in the economy you have socialism.

If I make you a shit sandwich but tell you it's really pastrami on rye, are you just going to close your eyes and swallow it?

Because that's exactly what you're doing with such a foolishly misguided insistence that places like Cuba and Venezuela are "socialist" states.

Don't believe everything you're told, my friend.

The hallmark of socialism is an equitable distribution of wealth among everyone. It's definitely NOT a society where the wealthy elites fill their pockets and leave the scraps for the peasants - - which is precisely what happens in Cuba and Venezuela.
 

Scorpio

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#42
foolishly misguided insistence that places like Cuba and Venezuela
but as hoarder alluded to, definitions have been whored over time, as they are used politically to define differences between countries

this socialism you speak to exists only in theory and history books, but certainly not in reality

no different than stating the US is a capitalist state, again fiction, existing in theory with a political claim but not as a economic system
 

Zed

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#43
The hallmark of socialism is an equitable distribution of wealth among everyone.
Ahem...

LOL.

First they offer you everything you need then they take all you have.

FUCK THE SOCIALISTS.

They always end up in the same place.
 

Zed

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#44
45 cows is a hobby.
 

GOLDZILLA

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#45
Amish do not refrigerate their milk either. Many have steel tanks they put in rivers or streams to keep it cool, but that is not cold enough for USDA.
 

ZZZZZ

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#46
"Cut the cheese", so to speak.:belly laugh:


A Mountain Of Surplus Cheese, Brought To You By The Federal Government

Subsidies: According to the federal government, almost 1.4 billion pounds of surplus cheese now sit in refrigerated warehouses around the country. Yet dairy production is climbing. What gives?

The amount of surplus cheese is growing fast — up 6% in just the past year.

According to news accounts, the reason is that dairy production is climbing, while dairy consumption is falling. Data from the Department of Agriculture show that between 2008 and 2017, milk production in the U.S. climbed 13%.

Over those same years, however, consumption has sagged — with per capita milk consumption down 14%, USDA data show.

The surplus milk gets stored as cheese. If formed into one giant wheel, the current 1.39-billion-pound cheese surplus would be about as big as the U.S. Capitol Building.

Two years ago, the Obama administration effectively bailed out the industry, when it bought up $20 million worth — 11 million pounds — of cheese, which it then used for food assistance programs. But the stockpile has grown 16% since then.

If all this sounds odd, it is.


In what other industry would you find producers continuing to ramp up production while demand slides, and then stuffing the growing pile of surplus into warehouses, hoping the federal government will buy some of it?

What makes the dairy industry different is decades of government efforts to "support" dairy farmers with various subsidy schemes. The 2014 farm bill did away with old federal price support programs, but replaced them with heavily subsidized insurance that essentially guarantees margins for those who sign up. This year, the dairy industry successfully lobbied Congress to expand this subsidy program.

Distorting the Market
By interfering with pricing signals, the effect of these subsidies has been to encourage production, almost regardless of market demand. It's a problem not just with the dairy industry, but with other agricultural products on the receiving end of government largesse.

Each year, in fact, taxpayers fork over more than $20 billion to subsidize corn, soybeans, wheat, cotton, rice, dairy and a few other commodities. Critics of these subsidies say that not only do these programs distort the market, but they tend to benefit big agribusinesses at the expense of family farms.

The 2014 bill was supposed to include provisions to prevent dairy overproduction, but clearly it hasn't worked as intended.

Dairy farmers say they need these programs to survive. We doubt that. Like every other industry, they'd learn to adapt to market changes.

In the meantime, ask yourself this question: Why should taxpayers hand over their hard-earned money to protect other people's jobs in a declining industry?
 

D-FENZ

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#47
Amish dairy farmers at risk of losing their living and way of life as their buyer drops their milk
By naming Amish, is it discrimination?...

"I think it’s a legal mistake to identify the group from which they will not pick up milk as being Amish,” Rich said.
“The Civil Rights Act of 1964 prohibits discrimination on the basis of race, religion or national origin. One theory would be that the cooperative engages in interstate commerce and therefore cannot discriminate against a protected class of people, such as the Amish,” Rich said...
“I do not believe their actions are justifiable. … Discrimination against protected classes of people (race, religion, national origin) is simply not allowed,” she added...
That's kind of funny. Of course it's discrimination. The Amish discriminate against the "English" all the time. It's their way of life. They even use their unique religious distinction in their marketing- everything from Amish crafts and furniture to food branding. The list is endless. And so what?

They're not the only ones. I do it too. I discriminate against all sorts of products and services in favor of the ones that suit my sensibilities. I even discriminated against a number (an admittedly small number) of women when choosing a wife. Again, so what?

Bottom line is that everyone discriminates in every decision always. And that's good. It's a perfect mechanism for keeping out the riff-raff.

But back to the Amish- or any minority for that matter. Why is it acceptable to use their unique minority status as a selling point, but not acceptable when it works against them?
 

ZZZZZ

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#48
That's kind of funny. Of course it's discrimination. The Amish discriminate against the "English" all the time. It's their way of life. They even use their unique religious distinction in their marketing- everything from Amish crafts and furniture to food branding. The list is endless. And so what?

They're not the only ones. I do it too. I discriminate against all sorts of products and services in favor of the ones that suit my sensibilities. I even discriminated against a number (an admittedly small number) of women when choosing a wife. Again, so what?

Bottom line is that everyone discriminates in every decision always. And that's good. It's a perfect mechanism for keeping out the riff-raff.

But back to the Amish- or any minority for that matter. Why is it acceptable to use their unique minority status as a selling point, but not acceptable when it works against them?
"Discrimination" used to be a positive thing.

It was said that a gentleman had "discriminating taste."

As the great economist Walter Williams put it, "I discriminated against hundreds of women before I chose my wife."
.
.
 
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Area51

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#49
Ahem...

LOL.

First they offer you everything you need then they take all you have.

FUCK THE SOCIALISTS.

They always end up in the same place.

Socialism has never existed in the modern world, my friend.

Having a small group of wealthy elites at the top of the food chain profiting off the backs of the peasants is NOT socialism, no matter how hard you try to insist.
 

Area51

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#50
but as hoarder alluded to, definitions have been whored over time, as they are used politically to define differences between countries

this socialism you speak to exists only in theory and history books, but certainly not in reality

no different than stating the US is a capitalist state, again fiction, existing in theory with a political claim but not as a economic system

So why do we try to pretend that "capitalism" is superior to "socialism" when neither actually exists?

It's as ridiculous as trying to decide which political party is superior - - Republican or Democrat. Both are equally corrupt.

In the event of an actual economic collapse and a true SHTF scenario, you'd better be prepared to embrace socialism because the only way you'll survive it is with a collective effort.
 

Scorpio

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#51
In the event of an actual economic collapse and a true SHTF scenario, you'd better be prepared to embrace socialism because the only way you'll survive it is with a collective effort.
Now that is some tripe right there
 

ZZZZZ

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#52
In the event of an actual economic collapse and a true SHTF scenario, you'd better be prepared to embrace socialism because the only way you'll survive it is with a collective effort.
Voluntary cooperation and coordination with your friends and neighbors is a whole lot different than "socialism."
.
.
 

Zed

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#53
Socialism has never existed in the modern world, my friend.
LOL, nice to have that playing card eh?



Nor will it ever exist as the fantasy crew describe it. It runs foul of human nature for groups of over 50 people or so to behave in such a fashion, you will always end up with the sociopaths in control killing people directly and indirectly. Sociopaths and psychopaths love to use the gun that is government to expand control. Government is the problem, it needs to be small and contained, all of its social functions can be and will be handled privately with less resource and more effect.

I'm not your friend. FUCK SOCIALISM.
 
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Zed

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#54
In the event of an actual economic collapse and a true SHTF scenario, you'd better be prepared to embrace socialism because the only way you'll survive it is with a collective effort.
Bullshit. Look at the history of the USA.
 

Zed

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#55
Voluntary cooperation and coordination with your friends and neighbors is a whole lot different than "socialism."
Yes, completely. Association by free will working for the groups benefit is very human, throw in too much governance and it becomes inhuman.
 

Area51

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#56
LOL, nice to have that playing card eh?



Nor will it ever exist as the fantasy crew describe it. It runs foul of human nature for groups of over 50 people or so to behave in such a fashion, you will always end up with the sociopaths in control killing people directly and indirectly. Sociopaths and psychopaths love to use the gun that is government to expand control. Government is the problem, it needs to be small and contained, all of its social functions can be and will be handled privately with less resource and more effect.

I'm not your friend. FUCK SOCIALISM.

Educate yourself, my friend - - "human nature" goes back a bit farther than the past thousand years.

You figure the native Indians were concerned with property ownership and capitalism?
 

Zed

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#57
Educate yourself, my friend - - "human nature" goes back a bit farther than the past thousand years.

You figure the native Indians were concerned with property ownership and capitalism?
I have, don't be an arrogant prick.

The native Indians where low IQ violent savages incapable of building a modern civilization. Take the rose colored glasses off, drop the .gov education and look at the history they never put in your text books. Noble savage bullshit, what they where concerned with was nothing of any note!

 

Area51

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#58
Now that is some tripe right there

You're living in a dream world if you think you're going to survive in a SHTF scenario as a one man gang.

Assuming you can avoid the marauding groups of starving people, your canned goods will run out sooner than later.

Take a look at how things were even as recently as a hundred years ago - - entire communities would come together as one for barn raisings and at threshing time.

While the men were working in the fields bringing in the harvest, the women would be working in the kitchens preparing food for the threshers.

Sounds eerily familiar to that line about "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need" doesn't it?
 

Area51

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#60
Association by free will working for the groups benefit is very human...
It runs foul of human nature for groups of over 50 people or so to behave in such a fashion...
So which is it?

In one breath you're proclaiming that collectivism is part of human nature and in the next you're insisting the same behaviour is completely against human nature.

It's comical to watch you spin so hard and contradict yourself within a matter of minutes. You seem very confused - - which explains your misguided comments.
 

Scorpio

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#61
You're living in a dream world if you think you're going to survive in a SHTF scenario as a one man gang.

that is a stupid statement as you have no idea of my intentions or thoughts regarding that,

I harbor no illusions that one person against a group of animals such as you is going to hold up,

in addition, you tell others to educate themselves, when you are the one throwing the bombs,

in other words, prove your shit or stfu
 

Rusty Shackelford

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#63
Interesting perspective. I live in rural Wisconsin surrounded by family dairy farms. The old guys are dying off and the families are selling out. My house is built on acreage of my wife's family farm that has been in the family for over 140 years. They quit milking about 20 years ago.

As an engineer for the world's largest dairy equipment company I spend a lot of time on large commercial dairies (5,000-10,000 cows). One of our customers controls 30-some dairies with a combined milking herd of 185,000. It is owned by two brothers who grew up dairy farming and a friend who went to business school. They figured out how to run a dairy business. The cows are comfortable, healthy, and treated well. During a recent visit they told me that the 5,000 cow herd at that location was producing 500,000 pounds of milk per day in three milkings.

I have yet to meet a milker on a commercial dairy who isn't Mexican. Most commercial dairies have a trailer park village for them right on site. The current immigration crackdown is pushing a lot of business to robotic milking to eliminate employment hassles. $15/hundred weight is the breakeven for robot dairies. We have been floating around that point for a few years now.

Dairy farming isn't dying; the quaint family farm is dead. Less than 250 cows doesn't make money. The barns are pretty, and the notion is romantic, but this is capitalism. Nobody is going to GIVE you a higher milk price. It is supply and demand. Business is tough. The tough survive. Evolve or die.
I hear food stamps and SNAP cards can be a pretty profitable venture....these milk farmers dont know the opportunities right in front of their eyes
 

GOLDZILLA

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#64
Socialism (like cancer) only works until there is nothing left to steal/consume . Once it can no longer eat profits and capital it begins to eat itself. As soon as people know that more effort will bring no more reward, they stop producing ( and eat next years seed corn ). In a short time there is nothing left to steal. This is usually stalled for awhile when a dictator emerges who can force some production out of the ever dwindling population, but it only lasts until he is either dispatched by his own people or taken by enemies abroad.
 

Zed

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#65
Sorry to burst your bubble but the "history of the USA" is a speck of fly shit relative to the history of mankind. Thanks for the laugh though.
As are you and your fantasy society!
 

Zed

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#66

newmisty

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Zed

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#68
Socialism (like cancer) only works until there is nothing left to steal/consume . Once it can no longer eat profits and capital it begins to eat itself. As soon as people know that more effort will bring no more reward, they stop producing ( and eat next years seed corn ). In a short time there is nothing left to steal. This is usually stalled for awhile when a dictator emerges who can force some production out of the ever dwindling population, but it only lasts until he is either dispatched by his own people or taken by enemies abroad.
Yes... example Sweden, a very free economic powerhouse that moved socialist and seemed to do well. That is until the wealth that capitalism generated was frittered away and capital left for more inviting shores.
 

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#70
Socialism (like cancer) only works until there is nothing left to steal/consume . Once it can no longer eat profits and capital it begins to eat itself. As soon as people know that more effort will bring no more reward, they stop producing ( and eat next years seed corn ). In a short time there is nothing left to steal. This is usually stalled for awhile when a dictator emerges who can force some production out of the ever dwindling population, but it only lasts until he is either dispatched by his own people or taken by enemies abroad.
Yeah, so now they done stuck the word "democratic" in front of it as a clever little window dressing. Same old evil failure awaits regardless of the cutie phrasing.
 

newmisty

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#71
Very lateral... I like it.

Tequila involved?

:-)
If Mikey were to join we could call it "45 worms is a hobby".
 

Zed

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#72
that is a stupid statement as you have no idea of my intentions or thoughts regarding that,
... but, but, but... the greys can mind read! or was that the greens or pinks... or those little furry ones you can't get wet?

Clif High says we are in mid invasion from aliens, so you know, they are probably socialists, you know, superior beings and all that!


I suspect that the cows actually left earth because of it. They herd it first!
 

Area51

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#73
that is a stupid statement as you have no idea of my intentions or thoughts regarding that,

I harbor no illusions that one person against a group of animals such as you is going to hold up,

in addition, you tell others to educate themselves, when you are the one throwing the bombs,

in other words, prove your shit or stfu

As I explained earlier, the only way to survive a true SHTF scenario is with a collective effort.

You disagreed with this statement in Post #51. Your words, not mine.

So if you can't bring yourself to embrace collectivism, where exactly does that leave you?

Seems to me the only alternative to working collectively in a group would be to work solo. But feel free to share your grand intentions that apparently don't include surviving with a collective effort or with a solo effort.

I'm amused that you'd need "proof" of the fact that in a survival situation there's strength in numbers.

But if you truly need that fact "proven" walk into your local down-and-out shithole bar by yourself and toss a drink in a few people's faces and tip over some tables. Let me know how well you survived on your own without any collective to support you.

If you prefer "proof" that doesn't involve getting punched in the mouth, cut off all your utilities - - electricity, water, gas - - refrain from shopping for a single item for the next twelve months, and try to survive on your own rather than with a collective effort.
 

Zed

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#74
So if you can't bring yourself to embrace collectivism, where exactly does that leave you?
You don't distinguish between voluntary and coercive collective effort which is a dick move, really, look around the world. Who succeeds? The voluntary collective efforts, that is who. Put the "gun of government into the equation and it fails every time, people die, people starve... it ALWAYS fails.

Socialism isn't the only way humans make a collective effort but it is near one of the worst ways they do... in the long run. It fails everywhere and always because people don't agree and people don't solve the same issue the same way in all instances.
 

Zed

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#75
I'm amused that you'd need "proof" of the fact that in a survival situation there's strength in numbers.
Trite... there has also been vast suffering and immense weakness in numbers. Are you always this shallow?
 

Area51

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#76
Socialism (like cancer) only works until there is nothing left to steal/consume . Once it can no longer eat profits and capital it begins to eat itself. As soon as people know that more effort will bring no more reward, they stop producing ( and eat next years seed corn ). In a short time there is nothing left to steal. This is usually stalled for awhile when a dictator emerges who can force some production out of the ever dwindling population, but it only lasts until he is either dispatched by his own people or taken by enemies abroad.

Whatever that shitstorm is that you described, it most certainly isn't socialism.

In a socialist society, the first thing to do is to fuck the government and fuck big business.

Everything belongs to the people. Land, labor, factories, equipment. It's all owned by the people and it's all controlled by the people. No government and no big business.

Not sure why so many are frightened and vehemently opposed to the idea of an economy with no government or big business involvement.
 

Zed

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#77
If you prefer "proof" that doesn't involve getting punched in the mouth, cut off all your utilities - - electricity, water, gas - - refrain from shopping for a single item for the next twelve months, and try to survive on your own rather than with a collective effort.
Dude! This is a gold site, half these guys could do a year standing on their head. In fact they'd probably be pissed off if it didn't last longer.
 

Area51

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#78
Trite... there has also been vast suffering and immense weakness in numbers. Are you always this shallow?
Of course there's going to be "vast suffering" when a large collective does not have sufficient resources.

In a socialist society, the people control ALL of the resources. There's no government skimming off the top, there's no big business skimming off the top.
 

Zed

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#79
Whatever that shitstorm is that you described, it most certainly isn't socialism.

In a socialist society, the first thing to do is to fuck the government and fuck big business.

Everything belongs to the people. Land, labor, factories, equipment. It's all owned by the people and it's all controlled by the people. No government and no big business.
Yeah, look dreamer you really need to flesh that one out because in the world I know it simply will not work!

Not sure why so many are frightened and vehemently opposed to the idea of an economy with no government or big business involvement.
Its fantasy we are vehemently opposed to.
 

Zed

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#80
In a socialist society, the people control ALL of the resources. There's no government skimming off the top, there's no big business skimming off the top.
LOL... yeah, cause no one is going to abuse power. Or enforce any form of law etc. Can I have some of what ever it is you are on?