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Dairy farming is dying: After 40 years, I'm done

Area51

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Neither you nor any group have any right to take anything from anyone, regardless of their ability or anyone else's needs.

I fully agree.

If you want to pretend you're a lone wolf capitalist, feel free to stay in your house and enjoy your canned beans.

But if you'd prefer to enjoy fresh produce and all natural meat, grab a shovel and join in the collective effort.
 

Libertaurum

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I fully agree.

If you want to pretend you're a lone wolf capitalist, feel free to stay in your house and enjoy your canned beans.

But if you'd prefer to enjoy fresh produce and all natural meat, grab a shovel and join in the collective effort.
Yet again, screw that.
What makes you think you can dictate my options to suit your wishes?
If I choose to work, trade or associate with others and we do so freely, voluntarily and under terms of our own choosing, that's capitalism.
If you pretend to manage other people's lives and property and pretend to do it "for the common good", that's socialism.
 

Area51

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Yet again, screw that.
What makes you think you can dictate my options to suit your wishes?
If I choose to work, trade or associate with others and we do so freely, voluntarily and under terms of our own choosing, that's capitalism.
If you pretend to manage other people's lives and property and pretend to do it "for the common good", that's socialism.
What part of Post #122 makes you feel you're being "dictated" to?
 

Scorpio

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note how the narrative has changed over the years,

where communism was regularly used as the boogey man in the room for the ptb to coerce you into accepting their version of capitalism,

they now have changed tactics and are trying to put lipstick on a pig and use 'socialism' as though it is a good thing

there were very vocal communists back in the day, and they were eventually squashed,

this time they are making a grand effort to do the same, just using different terminology,

rest assured, the theoretical 'socialism' will never exist, ever

anyone that fails to accept that, is a idealist that cannot make the jump to the other side of the board where the realists reside.

the persons who have commented to this thread negative to socialism and its various forms, have repeatedly tried to point out the facts, only to be disregarded. There is a difference in living in the realist side of the board and allowing for the theoretical, vs living in the theoretical and allowing for the realists.

there are guys here who have run companies, ran various levels of employees, been responsible for many persons families, and others who have served to protect this whatever we have, and yet more who have worked their asses off through the years to get a hand on that apple of life. Everything from business owners to carpenters, as well as those who have done time. Quite a wide swath of realists one could argue.

why one would want to discount that collective wisdom and experience is beyond me.

it isn't as though most here aren't quite well educated, or at the minimum, 'learned'.
 

Zed

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But if you'd prefer to enjoy fresh produce and all natural meat, grab a shovel and join in the collective effort.
LOL.

USSR.

Triple LOL.

Small groups, voluntary participation! NOT SOCIALISM!

and no you cannot redefine it to suit your delusion.

Some ideas don't scale.

No way to run a nation.
 

BarnacleBob

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coopersmith

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All the commie dairy farmers are screwed. All they get is a glass of warm buttermilk. That shit is hog feed.
 

Libertaurum

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What part of Post #122 makes you feel you're being "dictated" to?
The part where you pretend to narrow down my options to two false choices you then pretend to define.
Incredibly, you seem unaware of the difference between collectivism and free market capitalism. Capitalism and libertarianism do not imply people don't work together by any stretch of the imagination.
On the contrary. When people choose to work together or invest their money to achieve some end, each in pursuit of his own well being, it's called capitalism. Just because they work "collectively" it's not necessarily collectivism.
It's only when you pretend to take some group's (the "rich") property by force and give it to others (the "poor"), depending on their need or ability, you're proposing a collectivist system.
 

Area51

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note how the narrative has changed over the years,

where communism was regularly used as the boogey man in the room for the ptb to coerce you into accepting their version of capitalism,

they now have changed tactics and are trying to put lipstick on a pig and use 'socialism' as though it is a good thing

there were very vocal communists back in the day, and they were eventually squashed,

this time they are making a grand effort to do the same, just using different terminology,

rest assured, the theoretical 'socialism' will never exist, ever

anyone that fails to accept that, is a idealist that cannot make the jump to the other side of the board where the realists reside.

the persons who have commented to this thread negative to socialism and its various forms, have repeatedly tried to point out the facts, only to be disregarded. There is a difference in living in the realist side of the board and allowing for the theoretical, vs living in the theoretical and allowing for the realists.

there are guys here who have run companies, ran various levels of employees, been responsible for many persons families, and others who have served to protect this whatever we have, and yet more who have worked their asses off through the years to get a hand on that apple of life. Everything from business owners to carpenters, as well as those who have done time. Quite a wide swath of realists one could argue.

why one would want to discount that collective wisdom and experience is beyond me.

it isn't as though most here aren't quite well educated, or at the minimum, 'learned'.

What a wonderfully diverse collection of wisdom. Despite such a seemingly infinite knowledge base, not a single one has ever experienced a SHTF situation.

Let's wait and see how that unfolds before proclaiming collectivism will "never" exist.
 

Area51

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The part where you pretend to narrow down my options to two false choices you then pretend to define.
Incredibly, you seem unaware of the difference between collectivism and free market capitalism. Capitalism and libertarianism do not imply people don't work together by any stretch of the imagination.
On the contrary. When people choose to work together or invest their money to achieve some end, each in pursuit of his own well being, it's called capitalism. Just because they work "collectively" it's not necessarily collectivism.
It's only when you pretend to take some group's (the "rich") property by force and give it to others (the "poor"), depending on their need or ability, you're proposing a collectivist system.

The "free market capitalism" you champion is a complete pipe dream, my friend.

Lawyers, lobbyists and loopholes are what "free market capitalism" is built on.

Look at those cuntscabs the Walton family. Run small local businesses into bankruptcy and won't pay the majority of their workforce a living wage. Meanwhile, they're squatting on a $150 BILLION fortune.
 

Libertaurum

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...not a single one has ever experienced a SHTF situation.
...
You really need to learn to speak for yourself. TS has HTF on many occasions. It is always a local event but, when it happens, local is your whole world. And no, the world doesn't become a communist paradise where people hand out their stuff for free. Sure, there are always people willing to help others, but they help only as far as they wish to help. No one takes from them according to their ability and someone else's need.

The "free market capitalism" you champion is a complete pipe dream, my friend.
Says the guy who supports a communist fantasy...
Puh-leez.
Free market capitalism exists every time someone makes their own decisions about their own property.
Your "socialism" exists every time government, representing some majority, confiscates people's incomes, property or wealth.
Capitalism, to the degree that it functions in spite of socialist intervention, creates wealth and keeps people fed. Socialism, to the degree it is adopted, impoverishes and enslaves its victims. It is a wealth destruction mechanism.

...
Look at those cuntscabs the Walton family. Run small local businesses into bankruptcy and won't pay the majority of their workforce a living wage. Meanwhile, they're squatting on a $150 BILLION fortune.
And let me guess... You believe you, or some mob, should be the ones deciding what to do with their money, right? For the common good, for the benefit of society and for the children, right?
 

Scorpio

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not a single one has ever experienced a SHTF situation.
now that is ripe for comment,

don't kid yourself, many here have experienced a shtf event of some type, and their worlds changed dramatically,

so again, they have been to that edge and came back

while it may not be in the aggregate as you suggest, make no mistake, they have
 

Area51

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You really need to learn to speak for yourself. TS has HTF on many occasions. It is always a local event but, when it happens, local is your whole world. And no, the world doesn't become a communist paradise where people hand out their stuff for free. Sure, there are always people willing to help others, but they help only as far as they wish to help. No one takes from them according to their ability and someone else's need.


Says the guy who supports a communist fantasy...
Puh-leez.
Free market capitalism exists every time someone makes their own decisions about their own property.
Your "socialism" exists every time government, representing some majority, confiscates people's incomes, property or wealth.
Capitalism, to the degree that it functions in spite of socialist intervention, creates wealth and keeps people fed. Socialism, to the degree it is adopted, impoverishes and enslaves its victims. It is a wealth destruction mechanism.


And let me guess... You believe you, or some mob, should be the ones deciding what to do with their money, right? For the common good, for the benefit of society and for the children, right?

When exactly has the SHTF, my friend?

That sounds like something a pussified snowflake would say - - whining about how "tough" they've had it.

Having your electricity knocked out for a few days does not constitute a SHTF event.
 

Scorpio

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yeah, now you have just ratcheted up your trolling

enough already,

you have said your peace, let it go at that

comments such as that shows just how little you actually know about anything of substance

I'm tapping out on this, and would advise you do the same
 

ZZZZZ

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Haha!

Sincerely,
Marty Shkreli and Jim Dimon
You really don't get it, do you?

These guys aren't free-market capitalists, they're agents of the elitist crony capitalist government.
.
.
 

Libertaurum

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When exactly has the SHTF, my friend?

That sounds like something a pussified snowflake would say - - whining about how "tough" they've had it.

Having your electricity knocked out for a few days does not constitute a SHTF event.
"Pussified snowflake... whining"?
Try to be aware of your own ignorance.
Don't assume everyone's been as pampered and sheltered as you clearly must have been.
You probably wouldn't last a day in such situations, you and your "benefit of society" communist fantasies.
 

Area51

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You really don't get it, do you?

These guys aren't free-market capitalists, they're agents of the elitist crony capitalist government.
.
.
And that's what "free market capitalism" always devolves into - - a small group of wealthy elites at the top using lawyers/lobbyists/loopholes to profit off all the peasants.

Much like socialism, free market capitalism is a wonderful concept in theory but gets bastardized by the corrupt elites at the top.
 

Zed

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Let's wait and see how that unfolds before proclaiming collectivism will "never" exist.
My you are a slow learner, or you are just not listening...
 

Zed

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And that's what "free market capitalism" always devolves into - - a small group of wealthy elites at the top using lawyers/lobbyists/loopholes to profit off all the peasants.

Much like socialism, free market capitalism is a wonderful concept in theory but gets bastardized by the corrupt elites at the top.
... so its not free market capitalism then is it?

Unlike socialism free market capitalism has actually succeeded on its own merit, it only gets buggered up when we get the socialist types buying government with other peoples money.

No worries, a quick revolution and a new constitution to close the loop holes will do it.... oh and shoot all the socialists it the process!
 

Zed

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When exactly has the SHTF, my friend?

That sounds like something a pussified snowflake would say - - whining about how "tough" they've had it.

Having your electricity knocked out for a few days does not constitute a SHTF event.
Hmmmm... a libertarian snowfake, you obviously don't understand one of those words!
 

Libertaurum

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Area 51 ran out of lame arguments, so he throws out a couple of names and slinks away, commie tail tucked between his legs...
 

Area51

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Area 51 ran out of lame arguments, so he throws out a couple of names and slinks away, commie tail tucked between his legs...

I stand by my previous comments, my friend.

At some point in the near future, a SHTF situation on a national/global scale will most definitely occur. If anyone wants to disagree and insist the status quo will be just fine, feel free to offer a rebuttal.

This will be a legit SHTF scenario - - no electricity, no water, no sewers, nothing in the stores or gas stations, no Red Cross to call, no police to call - - the likes of which nobody alive today has ever experienced. If anyone wants to disagree and proclaim there's been numerous SHTF incidents on a national/global scale over the past half century, feel free to explain how difficult you had it.

The only way to survive this will be to function as a collective where everyone works together for the benefit of the entire group. If anyone wants to disagree and declare capitalism will reign, feel free to explain how you're going to singlehandedly produce something which everyone needs or how you're going to coerce others into working for you.
 

Libertaurum

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I stand by my previous comments, my friend.

At some point in the near future, a SHTF situation on a national/global scale will most definitely occur. If anyone wants to disagree and insist the status quo will be just fine, feel free to offer a rebuttal.

This will be a legit SHTF scenario - - no electricity, no water, no sewers, nothing in the stores or gas stations, no Red Cross to call, no police to call - - the likes of which nobody alive today has ever experienced. If anyone wants to disagree and proclaim there's been numerous SHTF incidents on a national/global scale over the past half century, feel free to explain how difficult you had it.

The only way to survive this will be to function as a collective where everyone works together for the benefit of the entire group. If anyone wants to disagree and declare capitalism will reign, feel free to explain how you're going to singlehandedly produce something which everyone needs or how you're going to coerce others into working for you.
You are a cowardly little troll, my friend.
You got your butt handed to you while trying to defend socialism, so you try to divert to this SHTF stuff.
No one needs to share any personal story just to help you deal with your ignorance about what TSHTF looks like, just because you've obviously never lived through that kind of thing. Just know that, in such situations, no one turns into a bushy-tailed commie, as you suggest.
 

Area51

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Getting back to the original topic instead of the political agenda that some are trying to push - - it's not just dairy farms that are being wiped out. All forms of small family operated farming are being eliminated.

It's interesting to compare the number of farms to the number of fast food joints & restaurants.

Fifty years ago there were farms everywhere but very few fast food/restaurants around.

Now it's the opposite - - I can't believe the insane amount of fast food shops & restaurants that are everywhere compared to how few farmsteads remain.
 

Mujahideen

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Society is out of balance. Society, not government, needs to support the smaller farms and smaller businesses in general.

We will probably have to go through something terrible first to help us realize that relying on mega corporations is not in our best interests even if they can provide products at a lower price.

Mega Corporations have no heart and no soul and their only priority is to make money.
 

Libertaurum

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Getting back to the original topic instead of the political agenda that some are trying to push - - it's not just dairy farms that are being wiped out. All forms of small family operated farming are being eliminated.

It's interesting to compare the number of farms to the number of fast food joints & restaurants.

Fifty years ago there were farms everywhere but very few fast food/restaurants around.

Now it's the opposite - - I can't believe the insane amount of fast food shops & restaurants that are everywhere compared to how few farmsteads remain.
I'm sure you'd rather bemoan the effects of socialism than recognize it as their cause.

Property taxes, subsidies, out-of-control regulations and market-allocation schemes, all imposed by government, have made it increasingly difficult for family and small farms to survive. That's a fact, Jack.

You can either recognize that or you can continue intentionally ignoring the actual root-cause of the problem. That's up to you. Reality don't care.
 

Area51

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Society is out of balance. Society, not government, needs to support the smaller farms and smaller businesses in general.

We will probably have to go through something terrible first to help us realize that relying on mega corporations is not in our best interests even if they can provide products at a lower price.

Mega Corporations have no heart and no soul and their only priority is to make money.

That's exactly it.

Agribusiness conglomerates have systematically killed off family farms just the same way independent retailers have been systematically killed off by the Waltons.
 

Zed

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Agribusiness conglomerates have systematically killed off family farms just the same way independent retailers have been systematically killed off by the Waltons.
errrrr... em. Economies of scale, perhaps. If you want to succeed in small scale you need to compete where you can and that, typically, is by offering better quality. If you can't do it better or cheaper then you have no place wasting the resource because others can provide more with less which is of benefit to all.
 
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Zed

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Society is out of balance. Society, not government, needs to support the smaller farms and smaller businesses in general.
With respect they need to provide better value, they can't compete on price but they can on quality. People will pay for better and they do. Small often fails due to incompetence and it needs to fail for the benefit of all.
 

Zed

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We will probably have to go through something terrible first to help us realize that relying on mega corporations is not in our best interests even if they can provide products at a lower price.
Wallmart is a middleman, that role is already being redefined aka Amazon. Wallmart's days are numbered as where the old world retail powerhouses. That is fighting the old war... and you can already see the seeds of Amazon's demise with this trend to distributed everything. Distributed warehousing and distribution will come about with a common platform supporting myriad retailers, think uber for warehouses with AI predicting and moving stock to better satisfy demand. All of what you know will change fundamentally...
 

Area51

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errrrr... em. Economies of scale, perhaps. If you want to succeed in small scale you need to compete where you can and that, typically, is by offering better quality. If you can't do it better or cheaper then you have no place wasting the resource because other can provide more with less which is of benefit to all.

You don't have any experience at farming, do you?

When grocery stores are selling turkeys at $0.49/lb I can absolutely assure you there's ZERO possible way to make money selling turkeys at that price. None whatsoever.
 

Libertaurum

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Socialists love to hate Walmart. Then they go shopping there.
 

Zed

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You don't have any experience at farming, do you?
Yes I do... farming family. LOL, so much you don't know! As it happens I've recently helped, in small part, a cousin turn around a small dairy inherited from his dad. Not 45 cows small but still only 600 acres. Anyway, he has greatly improved efficiency and product quality over the last 5 years, the place is now quite viable, but still small.

When grocery stores are selling turkeys at $0.49/lb I can absolutely assure you there's ZERO possible way to make money selling turkeys at that price. None whatsoever.
So what, around here high quality organic produce goes into top end restaurants at well over grocery prices. I also know a good number of restaurant owners who always source the best, we live in a farming/vineyard/winery/restaurant/tourism district where there is a very sound market for quality. The closest city also has a huge restaurant scene that is ultra competitive and is a sound market for quality produce. That's not even considering the open air food market trade across the city.

What is your point?

Hell I also pay double supermarket prices for local real free range pastured raised eggs.

I think you know shit about the real world. There is a lot more than ZERO possibility to a make small scale pay, turkey ain't always turkey is it?
 
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Zed

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Zed

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I found this story interesting...

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-04-01/scottish-highland-cattle-farming-at-derwent-valley/9588408

Using low grade steep and cheap land in Tasmania and producing a high grade distinctive product by growing Highland Cattle suited to the territory. All organic, high quality, distinctive product, high value and very, very difficult to compete with on any large scale.

There is always a market for quality and there will be an increasing demand for quality globally. If you are small upping your produce standard is the way to compete.
 

Area51

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I think you know shit about the real world. The is alot more than ZERO possibility, turkey ain't always turkey is it?
As I said, it's IMPOSSIBLE to make any money selling turkeys for $0.49/lb. Even at $1/lb there's not a chance you're going to make a profit.

BTW, unless the land is complete trash you sure don't need 600+ acres to support a 45 cow dairy farm.
 

Zed

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Socialists love to hate Walmart. Then they go shopping there.
Yeah, but that is only because they are not used to seeing things on the shelves!

Socialist in deep thought --> ahhhh, that is what those layers white sheet metal are for! Decadent capitalist pigs!
 

Area51

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Socialists love to hate Walmart. Then they go shopping there.

I have no use for Walmart - - their quality is absolute shit, they put local retailers out of business, and they don't pay a livable wage - - but maybe you can find a few threads on this forum supporting Walmart.
 

Zed

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As I said, it's IMPOSSIBLE to make any money selling turkeys for $0.49/lb. Even at $1/lb there's not a chance you're going to make a profit.
You are a bit silly aren't you? You don't have to sell it for 49c a pound do you?

BTW, unless the land is complete trash you sure don't need 600+ acres to support a 45 cow dairy farm.
Who mentioned 45 cows on 600 acres? You are obviously having comprehension issues. Their carrying capacity is closer to 600.