Dairy farming is dying: After 40 years, I'm done

[Area51]

You are a bit silly aren't you? You don't have to sell it for 49c a pound do you?



Who mentioned 45 cows on 600 acres? You are obviously having comprehension issues. Their carrying capacity is closer to 600.

When the grocery chains are offering loss leaders at $0.49/lb it's tough to convince people that the locally grown turkey is worth $4 or $5 per pound.

I'm curious to know what steps you took to "turn around" your cousin's dairy farm,

 

[Zed]

As I said, it's IMPOSSIBLE to make any money selling turkeys for $0.49/lb. Even at $1/lb there's not a chance you're going to make a profit.

Turkeyonomics! LOL.

Read the links, look at the real world examples I gave you of small scale delivering high quality at a premium price.

I know you probably can't afford high quality, being a socialist, but believe me people will pay for it!

BTW: I've had some good stuff from China now that they are Comapitalists!

 

[Zed]

When the grocery chains are offering loss leaders at $0.49/lb it's tough to convince people that the locally grown turkey is worth $4 or $5 per pound.

Oh dear god read the posts, I outlined the markets they sell into! Hell we even have a local premium supermarket that sells this high end stuff. More and more the good stuff is going OS... US can't get enough of the grass fed beef.

I'm curious to know what steps you took to "turn around" your cousin's dairy farm,

Me personally, I handled a bunch of tech requirements he had as that is my gig. He basically went to college then revamped the farm with what he learned about land care, our ag colleges are really good. A lot of improved equipment, a lot of specialized soil analysis and improvement, a customized breeding program (another relative is big in cow IVF stuff), new better designed dams and water flow across the property, channels etc (its relatively steep country by most standards). Better pasture... heaps of stuff, he bought the place into the modern era all around. Essentially it had been run the same way since the land was opened up, he bought it up to speed.

 

[Zed]

Why are you fixated on Turkey?

 

[Area51]

Turkeyonomics! LOL.

Read the links, look at the real world examples I gave you of small scale delivering high quality at a premium price.

I know you probably can't afford high quality, being a socialist, but believe me people will pay for it!

BTW: I've had some good stuff from China now that they are Comapitalists!

No prices listed on the first link?

Had a good laugh at the second link, they offer beef jerky and t shirts. That's not a farming operation, my friend - - it's just anither retailer.

As for grass fed beef, it's been mainstream in North America for several years. Perhaps a few people would be willing to pay for the novelty of it being from Australia/New Zealand/Tazmania but the shipping costs wouldn't compete against domestic.

 

[Area51]

Why are you fixated on Turkey?

We can discuss milk prices if you prefer.

Average retail price for a gallon of milk in 2017 was $3.16 USD. Compared to the average retail price from 2004 which was $3.24 USD.

Do you suppose input costs have declined over that time?

 

[Zed]

No prices listed on the first link?

So what? It would be AUD and the costs are AUD it's all foreign to you so you'd be none the wiser. Cape Grim retails from $25kg to $60kg depending on cut. That help you? Not really, you don't understand beef farming in Oz!?

Had a good laugh at the second link, they offer beef jerky and t shirts. That's not a farming operation, my friend - - it's just anither retailer.

They value add their own stock dickhead.

As for grass fed beef, it's been mainstream in North America for several years. Perhaps a few people would be willing to pay for the novelty of it being from Australia/New Zealand/Tazmania but the shipping costs wouldn't compete against domestic.

LOL... NO!!!!! Due to the fact that much of your industry lot feeds over winter you have sweet F/A 100% grass fed! Your local market calls anything that once ate grass, "grass fed". We mean "grass fed and grass finished" 100%.... and we can ship it the US cheaper or on par with US 100% grass fed beef, as little of that as exists. It isn't and can't be the main stream in the US due to your weather. We have more consistent conditions across the year so it works for us. The US is a big market for them... do the research, then you might know what you are on about.

 

[Zed]

We can discuss milk prices if you prefer.

Average retail price for a gallon of milk in 2017 was $3.16 USD. Compared to the average retail price from 2004 which was $3.24 USD.

Do you suppose input costs have declined over that time?

Yeah but why not go for an A2 herd?

 

[Libertaurum]

I have no use for Walmart - - their quality is absolute shit, they put local retailers out of business, and they don't pay a livable wage - - but maybe you can find a few threads on this forum supporting Walmart.

How do you know their quality is bad if you never shop there?
Regardless, other people choose to shop there. And others choose to work there.
Who are you to interfere in other people's business in any way, let alone propose it be taken from them by force "for the good of society"?

 

[Area51]

Yeah but why not go for an A2 herd?

Jersey and Guernsey cows don't produce anything close to the volume that a Holstein cow does.

Their main advantage is a higher butterfat content in their milk. But hardly anyone wants milk over 2% so it's not really an advantage at all. There's a glut of cream - - that's why the cheese market is over saturated.

 

[Area51]

How do you know their quality is bad if you never shop there?
Regardless, other people choose to shop there. And others choose to work there.
Who are you to interfere in other people's business in any way, let alone propose it be taken from them by force "for the good of society"?

My wife has shopped at Walmart on occasion - - their only worthwhile product is toilet paper. So unless you're wiping your ass with it, I wouldn't recommend anything Walmart sells.

But don't just take my word for it - - start a thread asking for everyone else's opinion of Walmart's "quality".

 

[Zed]

Jersey and Guernsey cows don't produce anything close to the volume that a Holstein cow does.

So? A1 retails for 1/3 of the price that A2 does and there is increasing demand due to health issues as the boomers age.

Their main advantage is a higher butterfat content in their milk. But hardly anyone wants milk over 2% so it's not really an advantage at all. There's a glut of cream - - that's why the cheese market is over saturated.

Utter bullshit! You really need to research why people buy A2 milk!

 

[Zed]

My wife has shopped at Walmart on occasion - - their only worthwhile product is toilet paper. So unless you're wiping your ass with it, I wouldn't recommend anything Walmart sells.

But don't just take my word for it - - start a thread asking for everyone else's opinion of Walmart's "quality".

Walmart stays in business, that is all you need to know. People vote with their money, free country and all, unless you know, it turns socialist.

 

[Zed]

Jersey and Guernsey cows don't produce anything close to the volume that a Holstein cow does.

Their main advantage is a higher butterfat content in their milk. But hardly anyone wants milk over 2% so it's not really an advantage at all. There's a glut of cream - - that's why the cheese market is over saturated.

There is a much better arguments as to why you might not go A2 and if you knew anything about diary you'd spot it straightaway. It seems obvious that you are googling frantically for lame arguments.

 

[Area51]

So? A1 retails for 1/5 of the price that A2 does and there is increasing demand due to health issues as the boomers age.



Utter bullshit! You really need to research why people buy A2 milk!

There's no market for it in North America, my friend. As will all other produce and meats, only a small percentage of the population is willing to pay any kind of a premium.

As for the "studies" that proclaim A1 milk is responsible for everything from lactose intolerance to schizophrenia to autism - - what a comical farce.

It's designed to appeal to the same snowflakes as the "gluten free" fad does.

 

[Zed]

There's no market for it in North America, my friend. As will all other produce and meats, only a small percentage of the population is willing to pay any kind of a premium.

It is an established trade you idiot. We are selling quite a lot of meat into the US already. Research it PROPERLY!

As for the "studies" that proclaim A1 milk is responsible for everything from lactose intolerance to schizophrenia to autism - - what a comical farce.

Oh dear, save for the fact that it works. I can tell you that from direct experience that the proteins in A2 are much better for you. Typically you develop this sensitivity as you age so I guess you'd have no clue yet. So much to learn! (clue --> baby boomers like their milk coffees!)

It's designed to appeal to the same snowflakes as the "gluten free" fad does.

.... well its not gluten so much as the protein/lectin WGA, again if you have a compromised gut, and eventually you will, you will see the difference. Again there is a quality issue with the way that wheat is processed in the US, Italian white bread is less of an issue because of the way they produce it. They are also A2 in Italy, very fussy about food and how it is handled.

Whatever my little socialist, you are arguing that people will not pay for quality! L@@K the world... how you can come to that conclusion boggles the mind and puts all other suppositions that you put forward in an extremely dubious light. LOL.

 

[Zed]

only a small percentage of the population is willing to pay any kind of a premium.

... and we are talking about small farmers making a niche market for themselves. If you are small and smart you will, and will deserve to, survive. If not then you deserve to fail, compete, be efficient or be great at it! Either way use resource wisely and the market will reward you.

 

[Area51]

It is an established trade you idiot. We are selling quite a lot of meat into the US already. Research it PROPERLY!




Oh dear, save for the fact that it works. I can tell you that from direct experience that the proteins in A2 are much better for you. Typically you develop this sensitivity as you age so I guess you'd have no clue yet. So much to learn!




.... well its not gluten so much as the protein/lectin WGA, again if you have a compromised gut, and eventually you will, you will see the difference. Again there is a quality issue with the way that wheat is processed in the US, Italian white bread is less of an issue because of the way they produce it. They are also A2 in Italy, very fussy about food and how it is handled.

Whatever my little socialist, you are arguing that people will not pay for quality! L@@K the world... how you can come to that conclusion boggles the mind and puts all other suppositions that you put forward in an extremely dubious light. LOL.

I was referring to A2 milk when I said there was no market for it in North America.

But please do tell, what percentage of the American beef market is Australian/Bew Zealand/Tazmanian grass fed? There's even LESS of a market for that than there is for a2 milk.

I just call it as I see it, my friend. The large majority of people today will choose a cheaper price over a higher quality. Hence, the appeal of Walmart and the trash it peddles.

 

[Zed]

I was referring to A2 milk when I said there was no market for it in North America..

It's a growing thang... you know QUALITY!

https://thea2milkcompany.com/newsroom/latest-news/momentum-building-usa/

But please do tell, what percentage of the American beef market is Australian/Bew Zealand/Tazmanian grass fed? There's even LESS of a market for that than there is for a2 milk.

Hmmmm... we are less than 10% of your population, it is never going to dominate your market you idiot! BUT small producers are already making great money by selling great QUALITY to the US. Why is it always about quantity with you guys? The argument is if you are small you can survive by producing quality! Corporations be damned.

I don't give a damn how big a your dick is or how many of them you have... mine is BETTER and way more satisfying! LOL. Get it? She will.

I just call it as I see it, my friend. The large majority of people today will choose a cheaper price over a higher quality. Hence, the appeal of Walmart and the trash it peddles.

Phuck... talk about miss the point. No wonder you have a fantasy utopia socialist fantasy land in mind!

 

[Zed]

I fear for the USA, the likes of Area51 have no fight, no mongrel in them, no desire to do it better... they all want to roll over and group hug!

 

[Zed]

Socialism is a heroin dealer offering you limitless euphoric upside for a small payment. Over time you realise that the euphoric upside is limited and the physical personal cost is higher than advertised. By then it is too late, you are addicted, helpless, dependent and cannot function independently. Then eventually socialism runs out of healthy skilled workers to keep the heroin supply up and supply dwindles. They all become users and stop being producers, why bother, someone else has got it?! By this point you are totally addicted, you have lost the ability to feed yourself and those that can feed themselves and others are to few in number to meet the total demand. Supply shuts down and the system fails.... same story every time.

 

[hoarder]

Socialists love to hate Walmart. Then they go shopping there.

You tell us crony Capitalism is Socialism. Then when a product of crony Capitalism like Wal-Mart is criticized, you call the critic a Socialist. Do you see the conflict here?

 

[Area51]

It's a growing thang... you know QUALITY!

https://thea2milkcompany.com/newsroom/latest-news/momentum-building-usa/

Hmmmm... we are less than 10% of your population, it is never going to dominate your market you idiot! BUT small producers are already making great money by selling great QUALITY to the US. Why is it always about quantity with you guys? The argument is if you are small you can survive by producing quality! Corporations be damned.

I don't give a damn how big a your dick is or how many of them you have... mine is BETTER and way more satisfying! LOL. Get it? She will.



Phuck... talk about miss the point. No wonder you have a fantasy utopia socialist fantasy land in mind!

Going from 0.0001% of the market to 0.0002%of the market isn't exactly "growing" my friend.

It's infinitesimal in North America - - just like the "market" for Australian/New Zealand/Tasmanian grass fed beef is here.

Making an investment into a "market" so minuscule would be ludicrous.

 

[Area51]

You tell us crony Capitalism is Socialism. Then when a product of crony Capitalism like Wal-Mart is criticized, you call the critic a Socialist. Do you see the conflict here?

Never imagined I'd ever see anyone on GIM trying to defend Walmart - - but I did get a laugh at the hypocrisy of it.

 

[Mujahideen]

You tell us crony Capitalism is Socialism. Then when a product of crony Capitalism like Wal-Mart is criticized, you call the critic a Socialist. Do you see the conflict here?

Walmart doesn’t pay a living wage. Government then puts Walmart workers on all types of welfare. Walmart workers then buy Walmart products with government welfare.

Small business owners pay a higher percentage in taxes than Walmart; Walmart is effected less from taxes as Walmart can also afford to scale up and operate on smaller margins.

Are Walmart workers buying grass fed organic milk? They probably are too dumb to or can’t afford it or society tells them that there are more important things to spend their money on.

We have our socialist and crony government in the way as well as overall ignorance in society. The big problem I see is we the people over time will be losing our aspect of farming and the importance of doing things locally and we will have to rely on mega corporations who will treat us like cattle.

 

[Libertaurum]

My wife has shopped at Walmart on occasion - - their only worthwhile product is toilet paper. So unless you're wiping your ass with it, I wouldn't recommend anything Walmart sells.

But don't just take my word for it - - start a thread asking for everyone else's opinion of Walmart's "quality".

That's nice, except I didn't ask you what you or your wife thought of Walmart's quality.
I asked you what you think gives you, or any mob, the right to take other people's property, regardless of how much money they've made? Please answer that question.

You tell us crony Capitalism is Socialism. Then when a product of crony Capitalism like Wal-Mart is criticized, you call the critic a Socialist. Do you see the conflict here?

Walmart derives many advantages from the socialist State, as does every US company to some extent. Those advantages are illegitimate. They shouldn't have them.
However, Walmart's activity is not illegitimate in and of itself. Just as making a lot of money is not illegitimate in and of itself.
Socialism, that is, the lack of respect for other people's private property rights, is the problem. It is not the solution.

 

[hoarder]

However, Walmart's activity is not illegitimate in and of itself. Just as making a lot of money is not illegitimate in and of itself.

But Walmart's very existence is a result of crony Capitalism. They built the company with giant loans issued out of thin air, making their monopoly completely illegitimate. The thousands of mom n pop small companies they put out of business did not have the benefit of being cozy with the banking elite. Money made by any such financed monopoly IS in fact illegitimate.

 

[Area51]

That's nice, except I didn't ask you what you or your wife thought of Walmart's quality.

Actually, yes - - you did. Reference Post #169.

How do you know their quality is bad if you never shop there?

I've never once advocated the Walton's corrupt empire "be taken from them by force" - - that's a complete fabrication.

Your hypocrisy is nauseating enough, but please refrain from concocting outright lies and trying to attribute them to others.

You have no right to do so, my friend.

 

[Area51]

The big problem I see is we the people over time will be losing our aspect of farming and the importance of doing things locally and we will have to rely on mega corporations who will treat us like cattle.

And that's precisely my problem with the issue.

Big business is using lawyers/lobbyists/loopholes to systematically eliminate the small family farm.

It's impossible to compete regardless of how efficient you might be when the deck is stacked so heavily to aid the wealthy elites.

The fake capitalism in America is no different than the fake socialism in the USSR.

 

[Zed]

Going from 0.0001% of the market to 0.0002%of the market isn't exactly "growing" my friend.

This is why you'd never succeed in business and need socialism. I remember using google when it was 0.00002% of the market.

It's infinitesimal in North America - - just like the "market" for Australian/New Zealand/Tasmanian grass fed beef is here..

It's working well for quite a few producers down here what ever you think. They don't even really need to export, it is just that there is a growing demand there.

Making an investment into a "market" so minuscule would be ludicrous.

What, based on your wet finger expert assessment? We are talking about how small business can survive where big business fails to compete. My argument is that quality will always get a premium. Expert small scale producers shouldn't go head to head on price, they have nothing to offer the market in that regard. They can, however, very often do it better. I'm surrounded by food industry niche business that does VERY well by focusing on quality and they don't give a second thought to what the 'walmarts' of this world are doing.

Your argument on the other hand seems to be that no one will pay for quality (lol, yeah right, that has never happened) and that small business can't compete. (demonstrably false, but whatever!)

YET you say walmart sells cheap crap and you'd rather buy locally... which is a quality choice, isn't it?

AND somehow you believe that socialism can work with no big government to suppress the walmarts of the world and that people will want to shop at these small communal outlets.

You send more mixed messages than that hot blonde I dated in 82... LOL!

Dude, I think you just want to win an argument, any enlargement... you need to go practice somewhere else, and adopt something more easily defensible like Fascism! LOL.

No I don't like fascism... free market, free choice, freedom... that is me.

 

[Zed]

It's impossible to compete regardless of how efficient you might be when the deck is stacked so heavily to aid the wealthy elites.

People around here are doing it!

Dude, there is a revolution going on in food and it surrounds quality. People are working out that the modern diet is killing them and moving to better food sources. If a farmer can't exploit this grass roots trend then they should sell to someone who can.

Your generation is all whine and no fight, entitlement is the problem.

 

[Zed]

You tell us crony Capitalism is Socialism.

Yeah, it is a flavour of national socialism.

Then when a product of crony Capitalism like Wal-Mart is criticized, you call the critic a Socialist.

So what was more key to Walmarts success freedom or government support? Once they reached a big enough size I'm sure that socialism stepped in to stake its interest, but is that what got them there? "Product of" is over statement or over simplification at best.

Do you see the conflict here?

The critic is a self avowed socialist that wants a cooperative world with no real governance and no real competition. How is it a conflict to call him what he states he is?

 

[Libertaurum]

But Walmart's very existence is a result of crony Capitalism. They built the company with giant loans issued out of thin air, making their monopoly completely illegitimate. The thousands of mom n pop small companies they put out of business did not have the benefit of being cozy with the banking elite. Money made by any such financed monopoly IS in fact illegitimate.

Like I said... ALL US businesses benefit from USD hegemony and artificial credit. To that extent, all US business profits would also be illegitimate, even mom and pops'.

 

[Zed]

Like I said... ALL US businesses benefit from USD hegemony and artificial credit. To that extent, all US business profits would also be illegitimate, even mom and pops'.

The majority of people in the US don't seem to get that one. I've explained the advantage of owning the reserve currency in the past on GIM but most would not accept the idea. It drags resource to the center of the empire more effectively than guns ever could, I'm always surprised at the difference in costs between the US and here.

On the flip side the Triffin dilemma should eventually lead to a 'day of reckoning' which will be doubly painful for those accustom to the advantage.

Reserve currency or not once government controls money supply and heavily influences its price (the most important price signal in the economy) then everything built on it is distorted to one degree or another. There is a 'socialist' element to everything after that, no matter how 'free' the country is.

Its all shades of grey, I prefer light grey.

 

[Zed]

The majority of people in the US don't seem to get that one.

... having said that it's not like the majority of the people anywhere really get it.

 

[Zed]

Walmart doesn’t pay a living wage. Government then puts Walmart workers on all types of welfare. Walmart workers then buy Walmart products with government welfare.

Small business owners pay a higher percentage in taxes than Walmart; Walmart is effected less from taxes as Walmart can also afford to scale up and operate on smaller margins.

Socialism @ work! Definitely needs less government and Walmart needs to stand on merit.

Are Walmart workers buying grass fed organic milk? They probably are too dumb to or can’t afford it or society tells them that there are more important things to spend their money on.

LOL... yeah, no they are not the market for quality and probably never will be.

We have our socialist and crony government in the way as well as overall ignorance in society. The big problem I see is we the people over time will be losing our aspect of farming and the importance of doing things locally and we will have to rely on mega corporations who will treat us like cattle.

One human failing to to project linearly. The probability is that there will be a reaction and we will swing back the other way. Cycles happen in all things and you can already see changes in areas. I think, despite some big penalties to pay, the next part of the general cycle will be broadly beneficial. After all if things don't swing back soon they are all just going to die, just look at the state of people these days!!!!!

 

[Goldhedge]

A2 milk should be the only milk sold.

If I drink 'regular' milk it doesn't digest, it ferments.

Not a problem if you like to fart and fart a lot... stinky, smelly, oily smelling room-clearing flatulence...

The fun part is walking through a crowded store and letting one rip... keep on walking...

 

[Zed]

A2 milk should be the only milk sold.

If I drink 'regular' milk it doesn't digest, it ferments.

Not a problem if you like to fart and fart a lot... stinky, smelly, oily smelling room-clearing flatulence...

The fun part is walking through a crowded store and letting one rip... keep on walking...

It was 'the' milk until we moved toward mass production.

Dr Gundry's book The Plant Paradox is an interesting read, he advocates A2 dairy.

 

[newmisty]

Haven't read through but I've seen documentaries of how the multinationals came in and marketed powdered milk to eventually take over the Caribbean dairy farmers but undercutting their product so heavily. This among other economical hits of course.

Naturally Zeds example didn't work there as it was a different era and the folks were dead broke to begin with.

 

[hoarder]

So what was more key to Walmarts success freedom or government support?

Govt support of their cronies the bankers who gave them unlimited credit not available to their smaller competition.

Like I said... ALL US businesses benefit from USD hegemony and artificial credit. To that extent, all US business profits would also be illegitimate, even mom and pops'.

You have obscured an important distinction. The mom-n-pops do not have access to unlimited loans because they are not in bed with the banking elite. Sure, they get small high interest loans at times, but they are not privy to future manipulations of the economy which could render them insolvent. While applying for those loans, they give information to the cronies of their competition to take advantage of. So if mom-n-pops are also illegitimate because of USD hegemony and artificial credit, they are only one tenth as illegitimate as the cronies of bankers who are allowed to win this corrupt game at everyone else's expense.