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GIM Hall Of Fame
- Mar 25, 2010
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DISCUSSING PERSONAL AND FINANCIAL SOVEREIGNTYMark Moss joins a group of Bitcoiners to discuss self-sovereignty and how to use Bitcoin and other tools to achieve it.
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[00:00:15] MM: Thanks so much for having me on, man. I'm excited to talk about personal and financial sovereignty and today's out-of-control world. It’s a big, big, big, important subject.
[00:00:25] CK: Yeah, I mean, for me, it's kind of like the whole point of Bitcoin is that. So, I feel like it's kind of something that you can't escape if you are someone who's in this space.
[00:00:35] MM: Well, it's something that you can't escape. It's something that I think more and more people think about, right? Bitcoin makes you think about your personal sovereignty, your financial sovereignty, being able to custody your own assets, your own value. And then I think it just changes the way that you look at the world, and I think most people that come into the Bitcoin space, start to care about those things more, they start to pay attention to those things more. And when you start doing that, the world starts becoming a pretty scary place, and very, very rapidly. So, then you start just thinking about how do you survive? How do you thrive to that even more?
[00:01:05] CK: So, I guess, Mark, why don't you kind of introduce who you are for people who don't know you, and maybe just talk a little bit about what you do in general? And why you're hosting this gathering?
[00:01:16] MM: Yeah, for sure. So, I've been making content for Bitcoin for about seven years. I got bit by the bug. I realized it was like the only tool that we had to win in this world that's trending towards authoritarianism. So, I've just been doing my part, to try to wake up as many, I like to say, not here to wake up the sleeping sheep, but here to wake up the sleeping lion. So, doing my best to just kind of educate, motivate, coordinate people to do that, to do the same.
Most of my content is centered around not the technical aspects of what Bitcoin is like, how to use nodes and hardware, wallets, et cetera. But more about why? What's going on in the world that's crazy and why do we need to protect ourselves? Why is Bitcoin important? Why is Bitcoin the thing that's going to save us and save the world?
So, I bring a lot of attention to different subjects that maybe a lot of people aren't really aware of. Because I think, especially in the United States, and most of the developed world, a lot of times people ask the question like, why? Why is Bitcoin important? You hear mainstream media pundits in the United States saying that it has no value. There's no use case. You hear Peter Schiff say, there's no use case or value there. But I just think that's rich coming from somebody in the United States, but most of the world has these big problems. And if you don't notice them, they're coming for you.
For example, I think most people are paying attention realize, our private property is being attacked from almost every single angle. So big news this week, we saw, the Federal Reserve, Janet Yellen, Treasury Secretary starts talking about taxing unrealized wealth. So, like they want to come after everything, they want to increase our taxes, increase our property taxes, increase our capital gains taxes, and now they want to tax our unrealized wealth. So, that's an attack on our personal property. Our body autonomy is under attack. Right now, what you can and can't do with your body, what you can and can't put inside your body, that's under attack. And that's like the most sacred form of private property.
And Bitcoin just gives us another way to hold our private property. It's both defensive and offensive at the same time, right? It's defensive, it allows us to defend ourselves. It's also a little bit offensive. I know some people don't like to think about that, in that terms. And I certainly don't want to make it seem aggressive, like Jason seems to be doing. But it's a little bit offensive in the sense where while we peacefully pull our money out of the system, it just defends them. It takes that power away. So, I think it does both that way.
I think, in my research, I've been doing a lot of research into history and cycles and we can see that. Basically, history is just repeating over and over that we go from oppression to freedom, oppression revolution, then freedom and oppression revolution and freedom. It just kind of repeats over and over on a 250-year cycle. 250 years ago, was the American and French Revolution, 250 years before that was the Protestant Reformation. Here we are in a situation where we're seeing peak globalization, peak centralization, and I think it's pretty apparent with the World Economic Forum and the World Health Organization and the World Trade Organization, World Media Association and the UN and the IMF, et cetera. And while we're at that peak centralization, we can see also at the same time, the world is pushing back and resisting.
So, all around the world, not if you're watching mainstream media, but if you're on Twitter, you see all around the world, people are rising up, and they're pushing back against this tyranny. We're setting up for this epic war. I think I'm not doom and gloom, I have massive hope. I think there's massive hope, prosperity aside, because we have Bitcoin and I believe Bitcoin helps us when. The problem is how much carnage happens, what's the body count from here to there? I think the next couple of years, unfortunately, seem like they're just going to continue to get worse.
There was something going around on Twitter today, Tucker Carlson said, “This was peak clown world”, I think with the Biden admin, so they wanted to give up to a million dollars per family for the illegal immigrants that have come into the United States. I don't think we're at peak clown world yet. I think we have a couple years left and things are probably going to continue to get worse. But if we can survive, we can navigate that properly, then I think there's mass of hope and prosperity to the side.
So really, I want to just try to help people navigate this properly and I think there's a bunch of things that you need to consider. Obviously, your wealth, we have to store wealth in a way that can't be censored, can't be taken away, can’t be stolen from us, et cetera. We need to continue to build our wealth. But we also need to protect our assets. The World Economic Forum has obviously made a point you've all heard at this point, which is, by 2030, you'll own nothing and be happy. I'm not happy about that idea. So, if there's anything I can do about it, I want to make sure that doesn't happen.
I think there's ways that we can think about building our wealth outside of the system, protecting our assets. I think it's time that we really look at health as an asset, especially today in the pharmaceutical driven world where our health is declining, the quality of our food is declining. We need to think about health as an asset. And we also need to think about our sovereignty, our freedom as an asset. So, basically, those are all topics, and unfortunately, we kind of have to be like a renaissance man today, where we kind of have to understand a lot of these things. I see LaserHodl listening there in the room. I know he's doing a lot about talking about these things. Untapped, he's doing a lot of things to talk about these things.
It looks like Greg Foss just came in. He's doing a lot of things talking about the financial system. So, you kind of have to understand these different disciplines if you want to survive this. I put together a live event. In today's day and age, it's harder and harder to get together. At the rate things are escalating, who knows how much longer we'll be able to get together in person. So, I thought, let's put together a live event where we can get together people that feel the same way and they can build some community. Because in addition to all these things, we need to build community of likeminded people around us. I think that's super important. The best way to do that is in person, not in the meta. Going around the meta today. How scary is that?
I mean, they want people to give up on their life and just build a new world in the metauniverse, which is insane to me. I think we should just go build the life that we want today. So, there's an event, we can get together, we can make new friends, build that community, foster that community. I have about 15 people coming to talk about every area from what's happening in the political financial realm. Like I said, Greg Foss, I see him in here, he's going to come talk about kind of the financial markets, the bond markets. We're going to talk about how to build wealth, how to grow wealth through this, how to protect our assets.
Obviously, Bitcoin is one way, but there's other strategies that we can use to protect our assets. We're going to have Untapped coming to talk about some food sustainability and kind of having this plan be internally. Katie The Russian is going to come talk about passports and offshore living. I have Dr. Joe Mercola, coming to talk about how to build your health and deal with censorship. So, we kind of cover all those bases, give you all the tools that you need to prepare to survive. And like I said, build that community and have it right now while we still can, because who knows what's going to happen next year. So, that's it in a nutshell and I think it's a super important stuff.
[00:07:35] CK: Awesome. I mean, again, it sounds like an amazing event. I know a bunch of people from our team are going to be there. I wish I could be there. But I definitely frequently tune into sovereignty content from Untagged, from Greg, from yourself. So, that definitely helps in terms of just kind of having a leg up. I guess we let Untapped on. Greg, if you want to come up, there's an invite out. If there's any other speakers are in the audience, Mark, let me know, happy to get them on stage.
But before we go to them, can you kind of like talk a little bit more about the details? Like where's the event? When is the event? What type of person is going to be at the event in general? Go through some of those details about the Market Disruptors live?
[00:08:16] MM: Yeah, for sure. So, we're calling it Market Disruptors, because I am trying to challenge everyone to go out and disrupt the markets, right? If you don't like the world that we are being given or being forced upon us, let's go out and build the world that we want. I know a lot of people here in this room are going to build that world that we want. So, let’s go disrupt those markets kind of theme of it, a little bit of again, it's not an aggressive thing, but it's just like, let's just go do what we want, let's build the world that we want. The type of people that are coming are those types of people, right? That people that see that maybe they're not happy with the direction the world's going, but they're not going to play victim. They're ready to go out and take control of their life, take responsibility to build that world that they want.
So, that's the type of people that are coming, that people that are freedom lovers, people that are willing to do a little bit of work to build that better life. As far as event it's going to be in Miami next month. So, in the United States, we got Texas and Florida, both competing to be some of those most free states. I know, CK you move to another state that's also pretty free. But Texas and Florida pretty good. So, we're going to be posted up in Miami, in Florida next month, November 12th, to 14th, and you know, we'll be at the Hyatt downtown, it's going to be a pretty cool space, kind of an intimate group, a few 100 people there. And we're going to have a couple of workshops. So, workshop on how to build cash flow, which I think is super important right now.
We have some ways to build some cash flow, not staking cryptocurrencies. This is in the real world. We're going to have a workshop on asset protection, how to protect your assets. We’re going to have another workshop Katie's going to hold on passports and things like that. There's really nowhere in the world you can go to have it all, so you have to kind of figure that out. So, those three workshops. And then two days of just speakers that are going to hopefully answer the questions of what they think is going to happen the next couple years, and what you should do to survive that.
So yeah, November 12th to 14th in Miami. We can still go live pretty free. We can have an event with no masks and restrictions and should be pretty dang cool.
[00:09:53] CK: Awesome. I mean, bless up to Miami. I know there's some criticisms to some of the shit coining going on I'm there, but generally speaking, it's a very good place to do business and we are very happy to be doing business in Miami, in Miami Beach for Bitcoin 2022. And for Bitcoin 2021, they were complete night and day difference than LA in California. That was an absolute nightmare.
[00:10:16] MM: Yeah, the Bitcoin Miami event was just – I mean, it was insane. I mean, it's just it's the ultimate event. If you're into Bitcoin, you have to go there. What I really felt was like this is electricity in the air walking around. And I think the reason why is that the mainstream media wants to tell us that we organize based off of race, sexual preference, this identity politics type of thing, but that's not the truth, right? We identify or we coordinate, we group up on values, on shared values.
I think the higher those values are, the stronger that is, and so Bitcoiners, there's every race, sex, gender, whatever was there at the Bitcoin Miami event, but we all were organized on a shared value system of freedom and sovereignty, which I think is the highest value. So, it was almost like there's electricity in the air. I mean, it was just amazing to be there. I can't wait for next year. This event is definitely not that. I mean, it's obviously built on a Bitcoin base. But we're going to cover topics, like I said, from A to Z of what you need to kind of prepare, protect yourself in this change.
Obviously, a much smaller, more intimate event where you can get to know people talk to the speakers directly, have some workshops, things like that. So yeah, definitely looking forward to Bitcoin Miami. But yeah, this is just a little bit different, much, much smaller, probably not quite as much energy, but should still be fun.
[00:11:23] CK: Well, I'm sure it'll capture that same vibe. So, I'm sure you're going to have very, very much like valued and likeminded people. We got Untapped and Greg, on the stage. Untapped, what is up? Why don't you give the audience a little bit of a sneak peek into what you're going to be talking about at Market Disruptors?
[00:11:39] UG: What's up everybody? Yeah, I'm pretty excited for this event. Usually the events, it's like, I'm most excited to be there and talking to everybody and networking, and just with the community around. But what the actual goal of this event, and the people that are going to be there talking, I think there's going to be so much good content put out to learn from. Me, in particular, I'm going to be talking about essentially, how do you at a family and community level, start getting your hands-on sovereignty? And how do you approach that problem from a strategic standpoint of solving like your food chain and every input you need for life control in a certain place where you're not trusting any of these fragile global supply chains for your needs.
So, rather than taking like Katie's model of go where you're treated best, my model is, pick the place where you want to make your stand, pick who you want to make your stand with, and then how do you strategically win that from that position?
[00:12:38] CK: I've never thought of what you do in that context. Has this kind of like perspective been a part of what you've been building?
[00:12:44] UG: Yeah, from the very beginning. That was always my intention, because if you think about sovereignty, or emergent communities, or fresh civilization on the cusp of that in the chaos, right? Soil is your first productive asset. Without an overproduction of food, there's no division of labor, because everybody has to farm enough to feed themselves. So, until you have that low time preference, storage of fertility in the soil, and high nutrition food, which I think is a part of the real war going on right now, too, is we've all been fed garbage for a whole generation, which makes us weaker. It makes us more susceptible to false media narratives and getting tricked, because our intelligence and ability just to be aware in the world is not as good as it should be where we're all kind of low energy and brain fogged, right?
So, if you want to build a new world, not always at that first place where civilization emerges, and that division of labor starts to burn out. But it's also the foundation of raising people with sovereign minds and sovereign bodies that are strong enough to maintain their freedom in the midst of the chaos.
[00:13:45] MM: Yeah, to add on to what Joel is saying there, what Untapped is saying is that, maybe people aren't quite aware of the attack that's happening even on everything. Like I just kind of said it before, but even on the food supply, so the plants growing on the ground don't have the nutrients anymore. So, our health is being endangered there. There's an attack on cows today. As a matter of fact, they're meeting over in Europe right now in Glasgow for a climate thing and they're saying they want to propose in the UK, that I think it was, you can't consume more than 500 grams of red meat. I don't know if you saw that, Untapped. But, I mean, they want to take away our food, they want to force us to eat more, synthetic meat, et cetera.
Also, the supply chains are breaking down all throughout America, the farmers are kind of under attacked. They can't get parts and equipment for their farms. If there's potentially a year or two that we might have food insecurity issues. So, focusing on that specifically and like he said, there's Katie, I saw jumped in the room. So, she has options where you could move to other countries where maybe you could get better food or have more access to food. Some people don't want to do that. You want to stay here in the United States and there's options to do that as well. But food and energy are at the base of our needs that we need. And unfortunately, those two are probably two of the biggest things being attacked today. So, a lot of people don't think about it, but they should. So, I'm super excited to hear Untapped to come and talk about that.
[00:14:58] UG: Yeah, food, energy and money. That's where they're at with the whole agenda of the whole ESG, carbon stuff. They're attacking cows because cows are the backbone of a decentralized food supply chain. They don't need centralization. You could raise them low input yourself. They're all the same narrative and trying to take the freedoms away.
[00:15:17] CK: Katie, if you want to jump on stage, please give us a request. We'll let you up.
[00:15:22] AG: Mark, can you put a reference to this awesome thing you're doing in the nest above so that people can go and follow up and get tickets and attend if they are able to?
[00:15:30] MM: How do I do that? It’s marketdisruptorslive.com. I'm not sure how to do that.
[00:15:39] AG: I’ll take care of it.
[00:15:40] MM: Yeah, if you could do that, marketdisruptorslive.com, November 12th to 14th in Miami. Like I said, we're going to be hitting it from A to Z, how to increase your wealth, build your wealth, protect your assets, your health and your freedom as assets, your food, obviously, your sovereignty in the United States, or potentially having a plan B, option is to go out of the country. So, that's going to be pretty comprehensive. And then most importantly, and Joel was hitting on that is that community aspect. So, you need to have friends that you can share these commonalities with that you can continue to encourage people help people, et cetera. So, it's going to be super cool. And yeah, I'm excited to have Untapped there talking about it, because man, that food is under attack and it's important.
[00:16:16] AG: You mentioned something earlier, about how identity politics is being used to, among many other things to drive or to attempt to drive a wedge between people. I just wanted to echo that and say that I could not agree with you more. It's so disappointing to see how effective that can be. As a black man, it’s something that I deal with, and try to talk people off the ledge of that all the time.
[00:16:40] MM: It's effective in getting people divided, but it's not effective in getting people together to work together, right?
[00:16:49] AG: Exactly. That's what I mean, it tears communities apart, and it creates these artificial fences between people, when really, everything you're talking about is what we should be focusing on.
[00:16:56] MM: It's exactly right. It tears people apart. So, I'm not happy with the way the world is going. I don't want 2030 to come and know nothing. And everybody on this call, I would imagine feels the same way. So, like I said, my rally cries, if you're not happy about the way the world is going, do something about it. And so if you're not happy about the communities and the families being torn apart with identity politics, then come build community. Community will outpace that, like I said back at the Bitcoin Conference, I mean, you had every race, gender, sex, whatever it was, but it didn't matter, because we're all there based off of shared values of freedom.
So, yeah, if you're not happy about identity politics, then the way to combat it, build and foster community. I think this meta thing, man, it's big news. Unfortunately, I can see how big it's going to be. But I'm not happy about it, right? But I see how big it's going to be because they forced everybody to stay home, put on masks, become socially awkward or whatever, and have social anxiety. Look at other people as you know, walking viruses. So, of course, people are going to want to escape into this metaverse and build a life there. But we want to counteract that, right? We want to continue to build in the real world and so that's what we're doing.
[00:18:01] AG: It's interesting, and CK, please feel free to direct the conversation in a different way. But I definitely find the meta hegemony. It reminds me of – I don’t know if you play like Half Life 2, I forget what the name of like the it's like the combine or something. It's like Orwellian entity that's basically doing terrible things, reminds me of that. But I do think that there is and I agree with you in terms of the importance of people focusing on what's happening to them in physical space, and their communities and their families and their ability to maintain independence both financially from a food production standpoint, from water production, all the resources that you need.
But I do think that there is this, I think of Twitter spaces and Clubhouse as these amazing things that have allowed us to build more effective meet-space communities, right? I met everyone here through Clubhouse, and that was such a positive experience. And then I've parlayed that into the physical world. I'm moving to Nashville as well, work for Bitcoin Magazine, and the conference and all that stuff. So, I do think there can be positive spaces there. But I also agree that whatever the hell Facebook's trying to do, it is terrifying, and people need to have that balance.
[00:19:08] MM: I would say it's different though, right? So, true to what you just said, the point you've used this as an extension of yourself to meet people in real life and build real life community. What that encourages is for you to go be an ogre or a unicorn and build this imaginary world. So, you're using technology to foster your in real life relationships. And so, I think it's a little bit different. But yeah, we do have tools that we continue to build community with.
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[00:20:33] MM: I know Greg Foss only had a little while, maybe we can get him to say a couple words. He's been talking a lot about the financial system, the bond markets that are like ready to explode. It looks like the governments are basically forcing all asset prices, higher real estate stocks, et cetera. They want to tax unrealized capital gains. The tax revenue on cap gains and taxes have gone from like 10% to 30% of revenue. If the bond market goes up, that's going to crush the market, right? So, you have to keep it down. But I'm not the expert, Greg is. Greg, what do you got going on? What do we have to worry about and protect ourselves?
[00:21:04] GF: Hi, guys. Thanks for having me. Yeah, I'm very flattered, Mark, to join your platform in Miami. I absolutely love the city. I met you in person at the Bitcoin Miami Conference this year. And that conference for me was absolutely everything that everybody's been talking about. Meeting people in person, I met the kids from El Salvador, where they're from Guatemala, they're Ibex Mercado, which I'm making a personal investment in their company. So, I believe you build bonds, you build – and when I say bonds, I mean human bonds. You build trust in people in face to face. You need to meet face to face in the world people. That's when you know, a handshake is a handshake, you look in someone's eye.
I met these people in Miami. I look forward to meeting more and learning more at your conference Mark, very excited. I understand that Steven Van Meter is going to be there and I look forward to having a discussion and learning different perspectives from him. And then most importantly yet, to round out my learning process with other people, with all these other angles that I never considered. I mean, this is unbelievable, this whole thing about cows. I had no idea, but I will tell you that from Miami, I'm going to Houston the very next week, because my power company in Canada is doing some incredibly, incredibly exciting stuff with some of the manufacturers of our equipment in Texas. So yeah, Florida and Texas is near and dear to my heart. And I just look forward to meeting people and trying to learn.
I'm 58 years old, Mark, I think I've told pretty well everyone that will listen that I probably will be the oldest guy at your conference, and that's okay. Because it doesn't mean I'm too old to learn. But I have sat in a risk chair in my life for 30 odd years. And there's so many people that do not understand the true risks that we are approaching from a financial perspective, not just from a personal perspective. So, looking forward to seeing everyone there. And thanks for having me on stage here. Christian, I look forward to our next event. That could be a big one too. Guys, I just want to say from Canada, if you guys think things are difficult in the United States, trust me, Canada is one step further behind and moving in absolutely the wrong direction. So, I'm here to help the future for my kids.
Thanks for having me. And if you have any questions, DM me. I do have to jump but I'm really, really looking forward to meeting new people, including Katie in Florida, and looking forward to building new relationships that will help my kids, help your kids, and help the rest of the world move away from these centralized absolute phobias that they're trying to jam down our throat. So, Bitcoin is the solution, but there's other things that have to go hand in hand with that. Thank you.
[00:23:52] CK: Thanks, Greg. And yeah, just a quick tease, Greg, and I have quite an awesome conversation planned for next Wednesday night. So, keep an eye out for that, more details to follow. Greg, thanks so much for all that you do.
Katie, welcome to the stage and I guess why don't you talk about what you do and what you're going to be talking about at Market Disruptors next month.
[00:24:12] KTR: Hey, guys. Yeah, really appreciate you all having me here. Mark, I'm super excited. It's going to be quite a few people from Plan B Passport coming down to learn from others and build the tribe on a podcast with Mark, where were talking about it a lot. It was really something that you need to take care of now before it hits the fan in order to know that you have well developed support system to execute on all this ideas and plan B's for food supply, for clean the country, for educating our kids without brainwashing them and all that stuff. So that's going to be cool.
Obviously, my side of things is going to be focused on how do you build a plan B for different attack vectors coming, mostly from state actors, but as well as just things going wrong way from a cultural perspective from whatever was going on in the world, just preparing yourself and your family, to be able to keep yourself safe when it happens or like sleep better at night, basically, because you know that you're prepared, and that's what we're going to be focused on. We're going to have two workshops, one on November 12, and one on November 14, as well as I'll be on stage one of the days, so happy to chat about that anytime.
[00:25:32] MM: The thing I'd like to say about what Katie's talking about is like increasing your sovereignty. So, we're here talking about, obviously, we're all Bitcoiners here. But like you wouldn't ever put your entire life savings into one single stock. So, why would you have your whole life controlled by one single country? I mean, it's kind of crazy when you think about that, especially in today's day and age where you see people like our good friend, Stephan Livera, who's going to be speaking at the event as well. He couldn't get out of Australia. He couldn't attend the Bitcoin Conference last year, because his own government wouldn't let him leave the country. He finally got out, but he missed the event.
Canada, the people are being locked down as well. And as Katie kind of pointed out, when her and I were talking on my show a few weeks ago, if you hold multiple passports, and a country won't let you out, well, you can go to that embassy, get the other country involved, and now becomes an international incident. So, it's just ways to protect yourself. The thing with insurance is, you don't need it until you need it. But when you need it, you sure are glad you have it. So, it's just a way that you can increase that freedom.
And also, in the United States, the United States passport is one of the best passports in the world. But when that pandemic broke out last year, almost no country would have Americans. And so, having that passport gives you those options, and so it's something that everybody should consider pretty seriously, especially in today's age, where we're continuing to see governments continue to lock down and kind of go down that path, like Greg Foss said in Canada. I think that anybody that's paying attention can see we're trending towards that, right? We're trending to authoritarianism. So, that trend is not going to break anytime soon, we have to do something about it. I'm stoked for Katie and what she's doing.
[00:27:05] KTR: Yeah, and as you mentioned, you can't put all your dependents on one particular state. But what's going on right now, it's like people come to me and ask, “Okay, where do we go? Shit is hitting the fan. Things are not looking good. Where do we go?” And my answer right now is basically there is not a single country, that gives me the amount of freedom that I desire. Therefore, I need to be flexible, I need to kind of stay on my toes and make sure that I decentralize my dependencies between different states.
In this scenario, I can play by ear and see what's happening this year, what's happening next year. And based on this, made my decision in a moment, because I already stacked my flags. I distributed my identity between different jurisdictions. Now, I can play this jurisdictional arbitrage. I can go to places that are safer, that are better for my family. I can go where I know that my assets are protected and all that stuff. So right now, there is not a single country that will give me all that. I got to keep stacking flags, and SATs, of course,
[00:28:11] MM: Stacking SATs and stacking flags, I like it.
[00:28:13] CK: That's going to be a new phrase. I hope that wasn't just coined here. But if it was, I'm taking it.
[00:28:19] MM: Katie, what's the other thing that you were saying that you wanted to continue using as a quote?
[00:28:24] KTR: Forewarned is forearmed.
[00:28:26] MM: Forewarned is forearmed. I love that.
[00:28:30] KTR: Yeah, it was actually like, it's a saying in Russian, and I was trying to translate it. And then I found this English quote that kind of means the same, but seems like nobody heard of it. So, I was like, “Okay. I guess I'm bringing cultural gap into my Twitter now.”
[00:28:46] UG: That one is so important too. If that's the message I've been trying to hit, is we got to have the courage to look at the situation with eyes wide open. We got to get rid of the naiveté in the passivity where like, we think we can just sit back and I don't magically happen, where we'll be secure, and it'll be okay.
[00:29:03] AG: I think the other thing is opening people's eyes. And I know this is bridge to acquire, but to what is possible. So many people, in my experience, they sort of have that defeated, beaten down approach and it sort of they feel like they know that the world is headed in a direction that none of us want, but they're like, “But what are you going to do?” And that's one of my most exciting ways to orange pill people is to be like, “But there is an answer. You can free yourself from this tyranny.” And I think, all of you are so good at doing that. So perhaps –
[00:29:31] KTR: We were talking about it with Mark too, that like, most of the people had the worst year of their lives in 2020. And you look at Bitcoiners, we're all like striving. It's the happiest year of our lives. We're like doing good, we're getting healthier, we're getting smarter, we're like educating each other, and building strong bonds with other people in the community. And the reason behind it, I believe there are multiple stages of acceptance. So, at first you getting like somewhat red pilled and you realize the world is fucked. Things are not going the way that you thought they were. Everything you learned was not true. And that's when you become really angry and you like, keep yelling it is, you're not sure what to do. And then once you accept it, you're like, “Okay, the world is fucked. Oh, there are tools that I can use to get myself unfucked.”
Once you get to this point, you're like, “Yeah, world is beautiful. Yes, things are not the way I thought they were. But I know the tools every step of the way that I'm taking right now, I'm getting closer and closer to my sovereignty and to acquiring more and more freedom.” You're getting to this really good mental state, that basically is happiness. And then from there, things are looking pretty good.
[00:30:46] MM: Yeah. And it comes down to what you're focusing on to, right? A lot of people can focus on the bad, the problems that are happening today, and that can be very depressing. But like Katie is saying, when you start focusing on the solutions, and you start seeing that you're gaining sovereignty, you're gaining freedom, your Bitcoin is growing in value, your focus on the good stuff, and then your whole mind shift happens, and then you're in a much happier place, for sure.
[00:31:07] KTR: And we're loving this journey towards sovereignty, right? Like, yes, we were not born in the free world. We have to take steps in order to achieve the freedom that we want. But like we enjoy those steps. Yes, you have to put effort, you have to learn way more than you thought that you had to, and you have to put some financials into play as well, but you're enjoying it and that's pretty cool.
[00:31:32] UG: Yeah, it's like we're winning, because we're those that have real hopes. They're not naive, they're based upon knowing real answers, because we've done the work to discover them, and knowing the direction and doing the work the head there. And that's got to gravity to this just pulling the world into this emergent culture of Bitcoin.
[00:31:48] MM: Agreed.
[00:31:49] CK: So, Mark, I have a question for you. Obviously, Bitcoin is a tool of many to kind of achieve sovereignty and fight for sovereignty and defend property, you know, that is not the only thing that is a focus at your event. This is a predominantly Bitcoin audience. Is it possible to have sovereignty in this internet age without Bitcoin? Is there an alternative to using Bitcoin? Or should anyone who's serious about sovereignty really reconsider their impression of Bitcoin?
[00:32:19] MM: I don't see another way. I don't see another option. I've been studying this for a long time. I spent several years writing cryptocurrency research. I've personally researched and published, I think over a thousand pages of crypto research on different projects. That was several years ago, I walked away after doing all the research I've done, I realized there's only one option. So, I've just chosen to focus on that.
I think at the end of the day, what we're talking about at the event, at marketdisruptorslive.com event is about ways to survive the coming change, until Bitcoin can change the world, until Bitcoin changes the system. Eventually, on the other side, Bitcoin can change the world enough, that we won't need to do all these other things, right? We won't need to go build our own farms and self-stay, and we don't need to go hide in other country’s passports. Eventually Bitcoin will fix the world so we don't have to do that. But it's about getting from here to the other side. And so that's why today, we still have to worry about those.
But Bitcoin, as I kind of said earlier, is both offensive and defensive. So, it's defensive, in a sense, where allows me to hold my wealth in a self-sovereign way, like we're just talking about. So, there is no other option to be censorship resistant, have my wealth in a way that can't be inflated away, governance changed on me, rug pulled, et cetera. So, it's the only option for that, that it’s defensive. But it's also offensive, because at the end of the day, if we want to change the world, fix the money, fix the world, we have to do one thing.
There's one weak point to the system that we have to defeat, I believe. There's one central point, if we can win there, the whole empire falls apart, and that's the money printer. That's it. The money printer is the source of all their power. It's what enables them to lock you down and send you STEMI. It's what allows them to rush through vaccines. It's what allows them to build police forces. It's what allows them to spend $80 billion to now monitor every single American's bank account, right?
Without the money printer, everything falls apart. So that's the weak point. That's where we attack and there's one weapon or tool whatever you want to call it to attack that money printer, and that's Bitcoin. And so, to your point, Christian, no, Bitcoin is the only option. That's the foundation. But getting from here to a Bitcoin world is where we have to utilize these other options and tools to survive and thrive through that.
[00:34:32] KTR: Hell yeah, I also have another question for Mark. You know how many of us had to unlearn the things we learned in school about – I personally had, but my background is in finance and economics. And when I discovered Bitcoin, it was like, “Oof, what did I spend my time on back then?” So, are you going to talk about unschooling or like, alternative education for kids at the event at all?
[00:34:57] MM: That's a great topic, Katie and as a parent of a couple kids, home schooling now, I can't imagine I ever put them back into public school again at this point. And it's something I think about a lot and I'm passionate about. Unfortunately, now that you bring it up, I haven't really thought about that like schooling kids, creating pods, some things like that. So, no. Unfortunately, I'm not going to really be covering that. But as far as the education of Bitcoin, we got Bitcoiners.
I got Breedlove, Robert Breedlove is going to come bring the heat. I mean, if there's anyone better to talk about what is money and Bitcoin, we got Breedlove come in. I got Alex Svetski coming. Everybody's favorite toxic Bitcoiner. So, Svetski is going to come bring it in. So, we'll have plenty of, Katie to your point, not the how to unlearn, but we'll definitely have the Bitcoin education there for sure. But yeah, maybe at the next event will bring in some of that, how to teach your kids unlearn stuff.
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[00:37:46] CK: So, I think we have a hard stop at the top of the hour, and we have 18 minutes here. I feel like there's probably some new people in here. I think maybe we can give one more kind of rundown of Market Disruptors next month in Miami, and then maybe we can do last words from Katie and Joel, to kind of just touch on what they're working on what they're just speaking about at Market Disruptors, and then we can kind of close it out. I mean, I guess we have like, 18 minutes here. So, we could probably maybe even take another question or two. But how's that sound?
[00:38:15] MM: Yeah, I mean, if we had a couple questions, that'd be great. I mean, just a real quick recap is marketdisruptorslive.com. There's a link up at the top. Miami next month, November 12th to 14th. Come learn how to build, grow and protect your personal and financial sovereignty. So, everything that you need to learn from A to Z from how to make more money, protect your money, protect your assets, protect and build your health, protect your sovereignty, onshore, offshore A to Z, there's going to be three workshops to actually help you really figure this out. All the speakers about 15 of the best speakers as I kind of rattle them off.
Obviously, Greg Foss was on. Breedlove and Svetski, as I said, obviously, Katie and Untapped that are on here. So, you'll have everything that you need from A to Z and you will kind of meet the people, build the community. Super, super important. Come while you still can, because who knows what next year holds. I mean, obviously, we're hopeful and optimistic, but we don't know. So anyway, that's the event in a nutshell.
[00:39:08] CK: Tally. Welcome onto the stage. Do you have a question for Mark or any of the panelists?
[00:39:13] MM: Tally, you’re muted.
[00:39:16] CK: All right, let's go to EP.
[00:39:19] T: Hello. I want to ask that, will BTC price, I mean, arises to maybe 64 today, or maybe –
[00:39:28] MM: What I like to say is that the price is a distraction. Ignore the price. When you're looking at new technologies, revolutionary technologies like Bitcoin, you're looking at two things. One, you're looking at network growth, Metcalfe's law, and two, you're looking at development on the network. Ignore the price. It's a distraction.
[00:39:44] CK: I agree. I never think about the price.
[00:39:45] MM: Yeah, as long as the network is continuing to grow, more people are using it. For example, we saw yesterday, the FDIC said they're going to look at how banks could let people buy and sell store Bitcoin in their bank accounts and have FDIC insurance. That means 300 million more Americans have access, so the network is growing exponentially. We look at the development on it with, layer two, now layer three applications. The network is growing. That's what you focus on. Forget where the price is going to be today, or the end of the year or even next year, for that matter.
[00:40:13] CK: It's going to be a lot higher.
[00:40:16] MM: Yeah, it's going to be a lot higher. I mean, just ask yourself this question, will there be more people owning Bitcoin in the future or less? And I think that answers it for you.
[00:40:25] CK: All right. EP. Welcome to the stage. I hope you have an intelligent question for our panel.
[00:40:31] EP: Yeah, for sure. My main question, actually, I'm seeing everything going on and seeing everything unfold, especially in the States. I'm actually in Canada right now. But seeing as was going on everywhere, like honestly, like for most people in everything, they don't know too much about economics. I know quite a bit about economics. And especially like Bitcoin, I don't see like a world without really store value and technology, because like, I don't know how we could ever like go back to an era of just very dominant federal banks and a lot of corruption as you see day to day.
But my main question is actually about Taproot coming up. I believe it was the 16th, November 16. If I'm wrong, maybe. I just wanted to know the more in depth, because I've seen there's a lot more stuff added. If you guys could fill me in on that.
[00:41:19] CK: I mean, maybe P can jump on that, but definitely not the subject of the conversation whatsoever. There's not a very technical panel. P, do you want to have a hand at Taproot? Maybe, Mark –
[00:41:28] MM: I was going to say, yeah, I mean, that's definitely a technical conversation. We have about about 10 minutes left, so probably not the best time to jump into that. I would say that again, I said two main things: ignore the price. Look at both two things. One, the growth of the network, Metcalfe's law, and look at the development on the network. So, layer two technologies, the growth of lightning, obviously Taproot, those are developments on the network, that's exactly what I'm talking about.
So, without getting into technical details of what it is, I just look at it from a perspective of the development is happening. It's an active ecosystem that's very bullish for the technology. I look at it from that perspective. Again, not going to get into details of what Taproot is. It opens up a lot of functionality that it allows even more development to happen. It’s going to be even more powerful.
[00:42:11] P: Basically, building out that infrastructure, making it more effective.
[00:42:13] CK: Alright, we're going to go with, EnthOrder. Last question, and then we'll go to final words. EnthOrder, do you have a question about sovereignty, or the conference or anything that we're actually talking about?
[00:42:25] EO: Yes. First of all, thanks for giving me the opportunity. Mark, Katie the Russian, and LaserHodl, it's great to see you all in the same chat. This is a question about, so I know, from doing research, it seems like places like Florida and Texas is good for Americans to kind of move to be around a bit more freedom minded individuals. But for those that aren't in America, say for example, myself, who's in England, how would you go about connecting or trying to find areas where it's a bit more freedom orientated and less a pro-COVID areas, where you may just make things a bit more difficult trying to be a bit more free?
[00:43:02] MM: I'll let Katie go on that one, if you want.
[00:43:04] KTR: Yeah, so I do have a lot of UE clients come into it with this question. And they do want to stay in a somewhat like, West European part of the world and asking me, “Well, where do I go?” Unfortunately, I have not been able to get on the limb there and actually do my own research. But what I'm seeing from here is Portugal been what kind of doing much better on the whole freedom stuff than other countries.
So, especially if you're not going to Lisbon area, but you go and let's say south of Portugal, that seems to be a pretty free place for me right now. Also, I know that Sweden been holding on pretty well as well. So, maybe those places will be cool. But what we discussed on the show with Mark as well, is that just looking to jurisdictions that are immune to bullshit. So basically, those that went through the worst times 20, 30 years ago, and how they're like thinning the government cruelty pretty well, just because they have no respect for governments at this point.
If you look at the country I'm coming from, we went to communism quite recently. So, we will not let that happen again. And if you're looking all the way, on the other side, like Australia and Canada, they've had it for too long, too good. Now, they're like, “Yeah, let's outsource our decision making to government entities and just obey.” So basically, look at who are the strongest culturally, like people who really value the freedom, and that's what we see in the US, Texas and Florida are the ones that are pushing back. So, just look for people that are pushing back and can go join them, build a tribe, and push back together.
[00:44:46] MM: What I would say to add on to that, just what Katie said, is that a couple things, one, as she said that Canada, Australia, obviously trying to turn into China as fast as they can. The US is under attack as well. And really, it's like the G7 countries, seem to be the ones that are really handling this the worst. So unfortunately, outside of the G7 might be good ideas to look at. Countries that just came out of communism. Like she said, like Eastern those areas look pretty good. Mexico, Central America, looks pretty good. But I think the most important thing is that I think this landscape is going to be constantly changing.
So, I think if you really want to be prepared to survive, you need to be prepared to potentially move a couple times. I know that doesn't sound fun. But I think at the end of the day, what really breaks this trend of totalitarianism is competition. When Texas and Florida out competed New York and California, both governors found themselves on the chopping block. When nations start competing, nations will be forced to change their policies. So, we might have to move a couple times, which is why having passports makes sense.
But for now, I think, like I said, probably outside the Eastern Europe, Mexico, Central America, those who do pretty good. Hodl, nods, keeps saying of how Norway's wide open, no restrictions at all period. So, that seems to be a pretty good spot too.
[00:46:00] EO: Awesome, thank you.
[00:46:01] CK: All right, let's get into last words. I want to send it over to Joel first. Joel, just give a quick recap on what you're working on, where you're going to be speaking at. And then any last words you have for the audience?
[00:46:13] UG: Yeah, will do. Hey, Mark, quick question first. The panel, is there a chance Katie and I are on the same panel? I'm really looking forward to getting to discuss with her, because I respect her strategic thinking a lot, the different approach we're taking.
[00:46:25] MM: That is a big roger. So ideally, I'm trying to put people together that are kind of similar, but have opposing viewpoints and not that you guys are opposing, but you have different solutions, right? So, Untapped is like, “Hey, if you're stuck in your country, here's what you could do to protect yourself.” Whereas Katie's like, “Hey, don't get stuck in your country, maybe go move somewhere else.” And so, they're both solutions to protecting your sovereignty. But there are different solutions. I think it's important for people to kind of weigh the pros and cons of both. Yes, definitely, you’ll be on a panel together.
[00:46:55] UG: Beautiful. I'm really looking forward to that, Katie. So, what I'm up to. Everything started with regenerative agriculture, where souls are first productive asset. If you're trying to secure your self-sovereignty, you got to start with your food chain. So, start with the whole cattle coop, launching low input, regenerative cattle grazing, where you're not connected to any of the feed inputs or supply chains for medical stuff. You can start on land anywhere with scrub brush or whatever and rebuild the soil to make it fertile.
But from there, I've grown all the way out into how do we build sovereign communities that can weather the storm that's coming? So, all the high-level strategic thinking, logistics and supply chains. Every piece we need to have concentric layers of defense, to where we have nodes that can weather the storm, to out of them birth, the emergence after the chaos. Very much kind of in the order of how like the Benedictine monks, like the Iona monks, were civilizations falling into disorder, and they compile all the important things. They build seed banks and knowledge of agriculture, and they sequester themselves away from the world and then wait for the chaos to fade, then go back out to you by twos, that found little monasteries that they used to teach civilization again of agriculture and how to raise crops and the technologies of irrigation and every one of those pieces. And birth back out all the things we need to have a thrive, large scale human governance to trade again.
[00:48:24] CK: Awesome. Where can people learn more about you, other than I guess Twitter?
[00:48:28] UG: Twitter is the best place. I've got a website, the links in my bio, but really following the podcast is going to be the best place to stay in the loop.
[00:48:39] CK: All right. Let's jump to you, Katie.
[00:48:40] KTR: Yep, well, at Market Disruptors live, I'll be hosting two workshops regarding how to survive the big resets with jurisdictional arbitrage, flats theory and things like that. Basically, how do you protect yourself from one state after coming after you? How do you distribute your identity between different jurisdictions and make sure those are beneficial to you in different ways, things like you can obtain more freedom through that, you can protect your assets, you can pick the better jurisdiction for your business, like better regulatory environment, as well as of course, better tax regime. We'll be talking about all that on November 12, as well as November 14. There will be workshops as well as we'll be talking on stage about it as well.
[00:49:30] CK: All right, Mark, close this out. Give us one last show on Market Disruptors live as well as what you're doing in general.
[00:49:37] MM: Yeah, marketdisruptorslive.com. You want to come. What I would say to kind of close this out is that the ostrich can bury its head in the sand. But it doesn't keep it from getting — or quoting one of my favorites, Ayn Rand says that, “You can choose to ignore reality but you cannot ignore the consequences of reality.” And in times of great volatility, unfortunate times a great volatility are typically disastrous for most people, because most people are sleepwalking through life. But you guys are not sleepwalking through life, you're Bitcoiners. And that's why you're on here.
So, while most people get wiped out through times of extreme volatility, it also presents massive opportunities for people that are prepared. And so, you're Bitcoiners, you're prepared, you're in front of most people, but using strategies like that we'll be talking about at the event like Untapped is bringing in, and Katie is bringing, we’ll be able to not just survive, but thrive. We'll set ourselves up for a better position. So, when we get on the other side of this, when Bitcoin fixes the money and fixes the world, we'll all be set up to be in a much better place.
While a lot of people maybe don't see the full threat that we have, and for myself, I'm going to turn optimist. So, it’s like very difficult for me to like, see that I don't know if the world can really get that bad. But everything I'm seeing tells me it is. The supply chain is breaking down. I mean, like what Untapped is talking about, the problems that the farmers are having getting supplies just for their equipment, like we're already having food problems and energy problems. It’s already happening. It's only going to get worse. So, while then I'm the eternal optimist, I don't want to happen and maybe almost kind of don't believe that can happen. I still want to be prepared for it. So, I want to have insurance on my house, or my car, whatever it is. And so yeah, don't bury your head. You'll still get eaten either way. Come make some new friends, build a community. Learn some strategies. I think it's going to be worth your time, Market Disruptors live.
[00:51:26] CK: All right. Well, everyone, thank you for joining Mark, Katie, Untapped, Greg, who's no longer here. It was a great conversation. This is double recorded. So, it will be out as a podcast on Bitcoin Spaces Live. It also was recorded natively, so, I think you'll be able to just listen to it on Twitter. So, check out this conversation. If you missed any of it. A lot of good gems, a lot of great knowledge dropped here, and this is just a preview of the actual live event. So, if you can make it to Miami in November, I think what you said was 11th and the 12th, you got to go. You got to go. It's going to be an absolutely fantastic event. I'm jealous. I can't go. Mark, correct me.
[00:52:02] MM: Yeah, you are jealous. Unfortunately, you can't make it. The only thing I'd say is that one connection or one idea can change everything for you. So, I always to try to approach things like that. So, just one idea, one connection could change everything. We also have a live stream option. So, if you can't make it to Miami, at least check out the live stream. Check it on the website marketdisruptorslive.com.
[00:52:21] CK: With that, you all, have a good Friday. Have a good weekend. Go to Miami.
[00:52:27] MM: Thanks, guys.
[00:52:28] KTR: Thank you. Bye, guys.
[00:52:29] MM: Bye.