Dresden, February 1945

[Mr Paradise]

I love it when the 1st ballot Hall of Fame inductees of the Qtard club who get their info from off the wall internet links starts giving us WW2 lessons ....to think millions of Germans were purposely starved to death after WW2 by the western allies is absolutely absurd. According to those numbers a German POW in Soviet captivity had a better survival rate. lol

After Jodl made his John Hancock on the unconditional surrender paperwork the country of Germany technically no longer existed. Thus there was no such thing as a German POW ...hence they were classified as surrendered enemy forces and could be fed watery soup with a few fish bones in it, not given access to medical care and forced to clear German mine fields for 12 hours a day as punishment. This type of severe treatment lasted only a few months at most for the majority of German soldiers.

 

[Stop Making Cents]

The world would be a much better place if we had allied with Germany against Communist Russia, but unfortunately America had a communist sympathizer as President (much like today), so making the world safe for communism was America's top priority.

 

[Buck]

and being National Socialists was going to be THAT MUCH better


snark

 

[D-FENZ]

Let's not forget the massive discrimination and abuse of German-AMERICANS here in America in WW1 and WW2. Of course you probably don't know about that since it doesn't fit the communist narrative.

My German grandfather among them during WW1. He was harassed for being German and doubly so for being overheard speaking German with his own family. The Klan and the law in those days was a distinction with little difference. They came around trying to sell war bonds- wearing hoods and the whole deal. He and the family was relieved to learn he was only being arrested and spent 2 weeks in jail for not buying the bonds. When they hauled him away, grandma thought it was the last time she would see him.

 

[Bottom Feeder]

Humans killed more people in the twentieth century than had been previously killed in the entire history of the human race.

 

[Stop Making Cents]

and being National Socialists was going to be THAT MUCH better


snark

I would say so. Teaming up with Germany against Stalin = 100 million people do NOT die from communism. No Communist China. No Vietnam war. No self-genocide of Western Civilization. But FDR was a communist and he forced America to save Stalin from defeat.

History books often fail to mention that Hitler desperately wanted peace with Britain and America. FDR and Churchill are as much responsible for the 100's of millions dead from communism as Stalin and Marx.

 

[Stop Making Cents]

Your minds have already been warped and indoctrinated to dehumanize the German people, but just take a look at the mercy and olive leaf Hitler extended by allowing the allies to flee to safety at Dunkirk instead of killing every last one of them. But no mercy from the Allies for the Germans.

 

[Mujahideen]

and being National Socialists was going to be THAT MUCH better


snark

Am I missing something? Is this like the difference between a frog and a toad?

 

[Bottom Feeder]

Your minds have already been warped and indoctrinated to dehumanize the German people, but just take a look at the mercy and olive leave Hitler extended by allowing the allies to flee to safety at Dunkirk instead of killing every last one of them. But no mercy from the Allies for the Germans.

Hitler distrusted the Wehrmacht, an “officers’ club” of elitists who he knew would never count him as one of their own . He feared the Wehrmacht leadership would be credited with the victory, and gain dangerous political leverage against the “upstart corporal.” So, Hitler decided to let Göring’s Lüftwaffe finish the job. The ground troops were halted.

Had the Wehrmacht been able to do their job, the vast majority of the enemy would have been killed or captured. The delay was very costly.

Interestingly enough, the halt order initially came from Rundstedt, not Hitler:

On 23 May, Rundstedt had ordered the panzer units to halt, concerned about the vulnerability of his flanks and the question of supply to his forward troops. He was also concerned that the marshy ground around Dunkirk would prove unsuitable for tanks and he wished to conserve them for later operations (in some units, tank losses were 30–50 percent). Hitler was also apprehensive, and on a visit to Army Group A headquarters on 24 May, he endorsed the order.​

Hitler had never wanted war with Britain. He still wanted to come to terms with Britain and stop the fighting. Some historians believe Hitler wanted to let the British save face and get their boys home. The killing or capture of 300,000+ Allied troops, with well over 100,000 of them BEF, the honor of the British military would have been impugned, and the British would have no choice but to continue to fight. So, Hitler may have allowed the imperfect execution of the final days of Dunkirk in the hope that the British would come to terms. He was obviously wrong, if this was indeed the case.

Quora

 

[Stop Making Cents]

View attachment 202401
Am I missing something? Is this like the difference between a frog and a toad?

if you don't understand the difference between communism and national socialism then you ahve a lot of research to do

 

[Stop Making Cents]

Humans killed more people in the twentieth century than had been previously killed in the entire history of the human race.

Perhaps, but I bet ghengis khan killed a bigger percentage of the living, and genocided many peoples.

 

[Mujahideen]

if you don't understand the difference between communism and national socialism then you ahve a lot of research to do

We call the Chinese communist, to me they seem more like national socialists with a bit of capitalism.

Edit: and a good helping of fascism

 

[Mr Paradise]

Hitler distrusted the Wehrmacht, an “officers’ club” of elitists who he knew would never count him as one of their own . He feared the Wehrmacht leadership would be credited with the victory, and gain dangerous political leverage against the “upstart corporal.” So, Hitler decided to let Göring’s Lüftwaffe finish the job. The ground troops were halted.

Had the Wehrmacht been able to do their job, the vast majority of the enemy would have been killed or captured. The delay was very costly.

Interestingly enough, the halt order initially came from Rundstedt, not Hitler:

On 23 May, Rundstedt had ordered the panzer units to halt, concerned about the vulnerability of his flanks and the question of supply to his forward troops. He was also concerned that the marshy ground around Dunkirk would prove unsuitable for tanks and he wished to conserve them for later operations (in some units, tank losses were 30–50 percent). Hitler was also apprehensive, and on a visit to Army Group A headquarters on 24 May, he endorsed the order.​

Hitler had never wanted war with Britain. He still wanted to come to terms with Britain and stop the fighting. Some historians believe Hitler wanted to let the British save face and get their boys home. The killing or capture of 300,000+ Allied troops, with well over 100,000 of them BEF, the honor of the British military would have been impugned, and the British would have no choice but to continue to fight. So, Hitler may have allowed the imperfect execution of the final days of Dunkirk in the hope that the British would come to terms. He was obviously wrong, if this was indeed the case.

Quora

The Wehrmacht consists of the Heer (Army) Luftwaffe (Air Force) Kriegsmarine (Navy).

 

[Mr Paradise]

Your minds have already been warped and indoctrinated to dehumanize the German people, but just take a look at the mercy and olive leaf Hitler extended by allowing the allies to flee to safety at Dunkirk instead of killing every last one of them. But no mercy from the Allies for the Germans.

So the allies showed no mercy to German troops?

 

[Stop Making Cents]

What's so disturbing is that we have people WORSE than Hitler alive and in charge today, who idolize and follow in the footsteps of Stalin. And by their control of the media, 99% of the world has never heard about Ukrainian genocide, or the 100s of millions killed by communism, or of the SLAVERY and torture of the millions enslaved in gulags and in communist nations. Why the obsession with Hitler, who has no one of any importance trying to emulate him? Is it because dehumanizing the Germans justifies the Allied atrocities and glorifies the military industrial complex?

 

[Stop Making Cents]

So the allies showed no mercy to German troops?

Not at Dresden. Not from Eisenhower shipping them to slavery, torture and death in Soviet gulags. Not from Soviets raping German women to death after the war. Point being, Germans ahve been dehumanized, but allied atrocities are glossed over or covered up, and they did things every bit as evil as the Germans. In fact, Germany defeating Stalin would have been a huge GOOD for the world!!!

 

[Mujahideen]

Germans ahve been dehumanized, but allied atrocities are glossed over or covered up, and they did things every bit as evil as the Germans.

The Germans lost so they don’t get to write the story.

 

[Bottom Feeder]

<heh> I've always wondered how a woman could be "raped to death". Must be some other ongoing activity there.
Didn't nobody eat little german children along with all that?
And muj is right — the victors write the history.

BF

 

[BarnacleBob]

WWI & WWII were about saving the remnants of the British Empire from tge European economic power Germany... Bottom line America became involved in borh wars, not to preserve liberty or stop the Germans, it was about preserving the loans extended to the Brits & allied forces... if Germany had won the wars, the U.S. investors loans to the Brits & Allied Nations would be uncollectable and worthless... of course when the U.S. entered the wars, the debts to the U.S. then expanded exponentially.... Like Smedley said "War is a RACKET"....

 

[Stop Making Cents]

If Hitler and Stalin BOTH invaded Poland, how come the Allies declared war against Germany, and not Stalin? If the Holocaust was the great evil, and justification for the war, why did the allies do nothing about the Ukrainian genocide? Not even a diplomatic protest?

Maybe WW2 isn't the story of good vs. evil that we've been taught.

 

[Mr Paradise]

Not at Dresden. Not from Eisenhower shipping them to slavery, torture and death in Soviet gulags. Not from Soviets raping German women to death after the war. Point being, Germans ahve been dehumanized, but allied atrocities are glossed over or covered up, and they did things every bit as evil as the Germans. In fact, Germany defeating Stalin would have been a huge GOOD for the world!!!

The Germans killed millions of Soviet workers. Stalin needed those hard working Germans to help pick up the mess they created. The western allies agreed.

Can you describe a huge GOOD? What do you mean by that. You are aware that after Stalin’s death in 1953 and arrest, trial and execution of Beria shortly afterwards the Soviet Union began to change drastically from what it was under Lenin and Stalin.

 

[BarnacleBob]

What's so disturbing is that we have people WORSE than Hitler alive and in charge today, who idolize and follow in the footsteps of Stalin. And by their control of the media, 99% of the world has never heard about Ukrainian genocide, or the 100s of millions killed by communism, or of the SLAVERY and torture of the millions enslaved in gulags and in communist nations. Why the obsession with Hitler, who has no one of any importance trying to emulate him? Is it because dehumanizing the Germans justifies the Allied atrocities and glorifies the military industrial complex?

Look at History, the Germanic peoples are prolly the highest educated in production & engineering activities... wealth flows to these peoples due to their social & economic organization... they should be ruling Europe, not the Brits... they have always challenged the Brits defacto authority to regulate trade & commerce... they created & organized the first great trade organizations & trade treaties, not the Brits.

An independent economic Germany was a thorn in the side if Anglo-American interests. The two great wars of tge twentieth century cut them down and made them vassals of the Anglo-American interests... no different than Operation Desert Storm Aug 2, 1990 – Feb 28, 1991 followed by Operation Desert Shield January 2006 – May 2006... Iraq is now a defacto estate of the Anglo-American Empire... its oil is being used to regulate global energy prices and contain Iran from expanding in MENA.... Of course the Anglo-American is billing Iraq for overthrowing Saddam & bringing sham "democracy" to the nation...

 

[Mr Paradise]

If Hitler and Stalin BOTH invaded Poland, how come the Allies declared war against Germany, and not Stalin? If the Holocaust was the great evil, and justification for the war, why did the allies do nothing about the Ukrainian genocide? Not even a diplomatic protest?

Maybe WW2 isn't the story of good vs. evil that we've been taught.

Germany invaded Poland. Once Poland was about to capitulate to the Germans (thus no longer existing) the Soviets moved forces into Poland to yes expand their territory but also protect their borders by creating a buffer between newly acquired German territory and the Ukraine and Belarus.

 

[Stop Making Cents]

Germany invaded Poland. Once Poland was about to capitulate to the Germans (thus no longer existing) the Soviets moved forces into Poland to yes expand their territory but also protect their borders by creating a buffer between newly acquired German territory and the Ukraine and Belarus.

Not quite. I get it, i grew up a highly patriotic american that believed America was always right, and always good. Foolish, but i was brainwashed. The soviets committed evil against the Poles, and sent them into SLAVERY and torture in gulags, but yet the Allies declared war on Germany. Also you fail to account for the fact that many peoples in western portion of poland were ethnic GERMANs who Poland absorbed into their territory as "punishment" for WW1. The communist attack on Poland was a pure power grab and pure evil. But yet once again the Germans were blamed and dehumanized and demonized.

the Soviet invasion of Poland was a military operation by the Soviet Union without a formal declaration of war. On 17 September 1939, the Soviet Union invaded Poland from the east, sixteen days after Germany invaded Poland from the west. Subsequent military operations lasted for the following 20 days and ended on 6 October 1939 with the two-way division and annexation of the entire territory of the Second Polish Republic by Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union.[7] This division is sometimes called the Fourth Partition of Poland. The Soviet (as well as German) invasion of Poland was indirectly indicated in the "secret protocol" of the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact signed on 23 August 1939, which divided Poland into "spheres of influence" of the two powers and questioned the future existence of the Polish state.[8] German and Soviet cooperation in the invasion of Poland has been described as co-belligerence.[9][10]
The Red Army, which vastly outnumbered the Polish defenders, achieved its targets encountering only limited resistance. Some 320,000 Polish prisoners of war had been captured.[4][11] The campaign of mass persecution in the newly acquired areas began immediately. In November 1939 the Soviet government annexed the entire Polish territory under its control. Some 13.5 million Polish citizens who fell under the military occupation were made into new Soviet subjects following show elections conducted by the NKVD secret police in the atmosphere of terror,[12][13][14] the results of which were used to legitimize the use of force. A Soviet campaign of political murders and other forms of repression, targeting Polish figures of authority such as military officers, police and priests, began with a wave of arrests and summary executions.[Note 5][15][16] The Soviet NKVD sent hundreds of thousands of people from eastern Poland to Siberia and other remote parts of the Soviet Union in four major waves of deportation between 1939 and 1941.[Note 6] Soviet forces occupied eastern Poland until the summer of 1941, when they were driven out by the German army in the course of Operation Barbarossa.

 

[Bottom Feeder]

Katyn Forest massacre

The massacre was prompted by NKVD chief Lavrentiy Beria's proposal to execute all captive members of the Polish Officer Corps, dated 5 March 1940. This official document was approved and signed by the Soviet Politburo, including its leader, Joseph Stalin. The number of victims is estimated at about 22,000, with 21,768 being a lower limit. The victims were murdered in the Katyn Forest in Russia,

 

[Stop Making Cents]

Katyn Forest massacre

The massacre was prompted by NKVD chief Lavrentiy Beria's proposal to execute all captive members of the Polish Officer Corps, dated 5 March 1940. This official document was approved and signed by the Soviet Politburo, including its leader, Joseph Stalin. The number of victims is estimated at about 22,000, with 21,768 being a lower limit. The victims were murdered in the Katyn Forest in Russia,

Also blamed on Germans as another excuse to dehumanize, torture, and genocide them.

 

[GOLDBRIX]

Think about what you just said. The CIVILIANS were also starved (see link above) to death by the MILLIONS. I recommend you "rethink" your apparent approval of the systematic murder of millions of people. There is simply no way it is other than an unconscionable and sub-human act.

I would not walk into an NVA ville and kill all the women and children. Nor would I put them in cages to starve and freeze.

Too many people do not make the connection between those running the show, and those stuck in the machine. Here's my bro, glockngold, drafted into the Wehrmacht in May of 1945. Just got his uniform on when the Amis took him prisoner, put him in a barbed-wire enclosure along the Rhine... and let him freeze, starve, get sick and die.

If you read what was quoted by a guard at one of the death camps:

"We had ample food and supplies, but did nothing to help them, including no medical assistance."

"And with all food being short, my team would eat first." <-- And do not give any to the women and children and German (drafted, dammit) GI's?

How do you reconcile your agreeing to starve those millions to death while you had AMPLE food and medicine??

It's only fair, right? The sumbitch (GI, child, girl, boy, grandma, grandpa...) was on the wrong "team". Right?

"War is HELL". That has been said for ages.

 

[Mr Paradise]

Not quite. I get it, i grew up a highly patriotic american that believed America was always right, and always good. Foolish, but i was brainwashed. The soviets committed evil against the Poles, and sent them into SLAVERY and torture in gulags, but yet the Allies declared war on Germany. Also you fail to account for the fact that many peoples in western portion of poland were ethnic GERMANs who Poland absorbed into their territory as "punishment" for WW1. The communist attack on Poland was a pure power grab and pure evil. But yet once again the Germans were blamed and dehumanized and demonized.

the Soviet invasion of Poland was a military operation by the Soviet Union without a formal declaration of war. On 17 September 1939, the Soviet Union invaded Poland from the east, sixteen days after Germany invaded Poland from the west. Subsequent military operations lasted for the following 20 days and ended on 6 October 1939 with the two-way division and annexation of the entire territory of the Second Polish Republic by Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union.[7] This division is sometimes called the Fourth Partition of Poland. The Soviet (as well as German) invasion of Poland was indirectly indicated in the "secret protocol" of the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact signed on 23 August 1939, which divided Poland into "spheres of influence" of the two powers and questioned the future existence of the Polish state.[8] German and Soviet cooperation in the invasion of Poland has been described as co-belligerence.[9][10]
The Red Army, which vastly outnumbered the Polish defenders, achieved its targets encountering only limited resistance. Some 320,000 Polish prisoners of war had been captured.[4][11] The campaign of mass persecution in the newly acquired areas began immediately. In November 1939 the Soviet government annexed the entire Polish territory under its control. Some 13.5 million Polish citizens who fell under the military occupation were made into new Soviet subjects following show elections conducted by the NKVD secret police in the atmosphere of terror,[12][13][14] the results of which were used to legitimize the use of force. A Soviet campaign of political murders and other forms of repression, targeting Polish figures of authority such as military officers, police and priests, began with a wave of arrests and summary executions.[Note 5][15][16] The Soviet NKVD sent hundreds of thousands of people from eastern Poland to Siberia and other remote parts of the Soviet Union in four major waves of deportation between 1939 and 1941.[Note 6] Soviet forces occupied eastern Poland until the summer of 1941, when they were driven out by the German army in the course of Operation Barbarossa.

I see in between foams you went and read Wikipedia real fast.

The “protecting ethnic Germans” was the excuse Berlin used to absorb numerous territories.

Britain and France declared war on Germany once the polish campaign kicked off. I guess they both figured declaring war on the Soviet Union 17 days later wasn’t in either’s best interests.
Yes, I’m well aware of Polish officers (Katyn forest) being shot by the Soviets as well as anyone else that could potentially rock the boat being liquidated or sent to Siberia. The guys running the Soviet Union in the 30’s and 40’s were a nasty lot. The guys running the show in the 70’s and 80’s while Red Army hockey teams played NHL all star teams in Madison Square Garden were a different lot altogether.

Germany declared war on America 11 December 1941 ....hours later America returned the favor.

 

[GOLDBRIX]

The good guys lost

So you think this world would be better off if Hitler and the NAZIs would have won the war ?

 

[the_shootist]

So you think this world would be better off if Hitler and the NAZIs would have won the war ?

Let's just say I've dug a lot deeper than history books and magazines on the true happenings before, during and after the war. What I've found is that the Allies, including the US, were actually not at all what they have been represented to be in history....neither were the Nazis. Especially when talking about the US and Britain, there was plenty of evil and genocide to go around regarding the Allies.

 

[Mr Paradise]

Let's just say I've dug a lot deeper than history books and magazines on the true happenings before, during and after the war. What I've found is that the Allies, including the US, were actually not at all what they have been represented to be in history....neither were the Nazis. Especially when talking about the US and Britain, there was plenty of evil and genocide to go around regarding the Allies.

Once again no facts ....just the usual waffling.

 

[917601]

The same communist media that distorts reality today, and pumps sunshine for modern day communists, wrote the story of WW2. They told us that Germans were evil, and deserved this. Communists and Allies committing unspeakable atrocities did not happen, it was all Hitlers fault. And the communists, tribesmen, and allies were just peaceful protesters and benevolent overlords in post ww1 Germany.

I took my mother back to visit Lithuania when the Soviets were leaving in 1991 or 93, at her old home ( a 100 hectare ranch) was turned into a Soviet collective...facing the barn she started crying....she couldn’t enter, I learned advance Soviet soldiers had spent the night in the barn and left in the morning, her father had decided in the morning to hitch up the wagon, load up and finally leave....she entered the barn to help her father and witnessed nuns hanging by the rafters....they were raped all night and hung by the Soviets. I learned of the event when we visited the town‘s still operating nun convent a few days later. My mother witnessed way to much in her early years....still alive, 89, I just got back from visiting her in Florida a few days ago, and she had a lot to say about where we are heading with this communist administration....many warnings were given to me, may God continue to bless her.

 

[Buck]

i've believed 'warriors' served their purpose, while here, and then moved onto something less horrific to 'begin again' but there are some soldiers, i'm convinced, never get that 'second chance'

the victims, well, they're victims and perhaps even some are 'victims' by 'due cause'...



the belief system is truly imaginative...

 

[mtnman]

I am a firm believer in "War has no rules, complete and total destruction". Survivors come back to kill you later...

 

[Mujahideen]

Now listen to Yahweh’s words. 2 This is what Yahweh Tsebaoth says: I will punish Amalek for what they did to Israel. They blocked Israel’s way after the Israelites came from Egypt. 3 Now go and attack Amalek. Claim everything they have for God by destroying it. Don’t spare them, but kill men and women, infants and children, cows and sheep, camels and donkeys.”

 

[hammerhead]

Unfathomable.

 

[Buck]

I am a firm believer in "War has no rules, complete and total destruction". Survivors come back to kill you later...

fair enough

so, ask yourself this:
What has THAT MAN done to YOU to the point you're now going to Kill Him?

ask your self this:
Are You Fighting Another Man's War?

ask your self this:
Why? Why do you accept No Rules, from anyone? For What Reason are No Rules to be Allowed? In Warfare? Why are we fighting? I'm Not Fighting, can I have No Rules Too?

certain things become quite evident after such inquisition...

there are no survivors if there is no warfare

 

[nowon]

Front line soldiers have more in common with the grunts on the other side than with the oligarchs that start and direct wars

 

[mtnman]

fair enough

so, ask yourself this:
What has THAT MAN done to YOU to the point you're now going to Kill Him?

ask your self this:
Are You Fighting Another Man's War?

ask your self this:
Why? Why do you accept No Rules, from anyone? For What Reason are No Rules to be Allowed? In Warfare? Why are we fighting? I'm Not Fighting, can I have No Rules Too?

certain things become quite evident after such inquisition...

there are no survivors if there is no warfare

Too many questions, you won't survive a war.

 

[Buck]

Too many questions, you won't survive a war.

i'd just have to out smart you, or convince you to not fight

questions won't really be required, just an offer: You First

me? i'll be busy 'surviving'

...i know what type of an ending you'll fill in for my 'sad story' but don't do it...

let me ask...if i survive a war, what will i come home to? (if i survive never leaving my 'home', i already know what to expect...i did it)

more important, if i survive anything, my first question would be: (what) Did we win?
i've not been able to figure any of that out on a national level, since, idk, Trade Wars, maybe Trumps rescinding all that crap he cleaned up...but, for over two centuries of warfare, and winning and all that, where is all this bounty we should have, for 'being victorious'?

have you ever seen any?

me either

and don't suggest 'cheap oil', that was a game that was played by having wars...


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