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Dresden, February 1945

dacrunch

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#81
Eisenhower did not play fair AFTER the war. The surrendered German military were -- by his order -- NOT classified as POW's.

His order classified all German prisoners as "Surrendered Enemy Forces". <-- Wozzat mean? It means that the poor Kraut GI's were not in the least protected by the Geneva Convention.

They were left out in the open behind barbed wire. One and a half to two-million died of disease and starvation in Eisenhower's death camps. I was shattered when I learned this in my research. Ike had been a hero of mine.

Now he is an absolute equal to Heinrich Himmler. :mad:

If you want the staggering truth:

http://whale.to/b/starvation_of_germans.html

A quote about a cold fact which you're probably unaware:

"We are ceaselessly reminded of the Third Reich’s wartime concentration camps. But few Americans are aware that such infamous camps as Dachau, Buchenwald, Sachsenhausen and Auschwitz stayed in business after the end of the war, only now packed with German captives, many of whom perished miserably."

And:

"In Andernach about 50,000 prisoners of all ages were held in an open field surrounded by barbed wire. The women were kept in a separate enclosure that I did not see until later. The men I guarded had no shelter and no blankets. Many had no coats. They slept in the mud, wet and cold, with inadequate slit trenches for excrement. It was a cold, wet spring, and their misery from exposure alone was evident.

"Even more shocking was to see the prisoners throwing grass and weeds into a tin can containing a thin soup. They told me they did this to help ease their hunger pains. Quickly they grew emaciated. Dysentery raged, and soon they were sleeping in their own excrement, too weak and crowded to reach the slit trenches. Many were begging for food, sickening and dying before our eyes. We had ample food and supplies, but did nothing to help them, including no medical assistance."
When my father disembarked in Normandy (one week after D-Day, where he lost several friends), he was put in charge of escorting - on foot - "German" POW's. Most of them were from Eastern Europe, "drafted by force", and happy to no longer be in a war. They were very "docile", since there was ONE GI per 100 POW's in the pedestrian convoy...

Those were the "lucky" POW's, since there were news reporters present in the Liberation of France...
 
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dacrunch

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#82

Unca Walt

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#83
Speaking of members of the all-volunteer US military, they are by definition, more patriotic on average than the rest of the population of the US. (Think of 25,000,000 African/South American/MS-13/muslim illegals, and compare them to the US military personnel.) Throw in Libs and Counter Culture and AOC's.

Now that there is a clear comparison, check out Biden's latest insults touted on CNN:

"Joe Biden on Tuesday blamed US veterans and former police officers for fueling white supremacy in the United States."

President Biden says WHITE supremacists are the greatest domestic terror threat in the US:

"It's complex, it's wide-ranging and it's real."

#BidenTownHall https://cnn.it/3doF8zN
 

mtnman

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#84
i'd just have to out smart you, or convince you to not fight

questions won't really be required, just an offer: You First

me? i'll be busy 'surviving'

...i know what type of an ending you'll fill in for my 'sad story' but don't do it...

let me ask...if i survive a war, what will i come home to? (if i survive never leaving my 'home', i already know what to expect...i did it)

more important, if i survive anything, my first question would be: (what) Did we win?
i've not been able to figure any of that out on a national level, since, idk, Trade Wars, maybe Trumps rescinding all that crap he cleaned up...but, for over two centuries of warfare, and winning and all that, where is all this bounty we should have, for 'being victorious'?

have you ever seen any?

me either

and don't suggest 'cheap oil', that was a game that was played by having wars...



:beer:
I also believe in "To the victor go the spoils" People with too many questions have made this seem wrong, due to those rules of war they want to play by. Hell, ya can't even pick up souvenirs from the battle any more.
 

GOLDBRIX

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#85
What has THAT MAN done to YOU to the point you're now going to Kill Him?
I's say " What has he done to get to me for this confrontation" ?
He is not here to sell comic books.
War is Hell, and the only to not be a victim is make the opponent the victim.
 

Mr Paradise

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#86
I also believe in "To the victor go the spoils" People with too many questions have made this seem wrong, due to those rules of war they want to play by. Hell, ya can't even pick up souvenirs from the battle any more.
So as a southerner you would have been ok with Union commanders during the civil war shipping back hundreds upon hundreds of wagons loaded with southern wealth looted from cities and plantations.

I hate threads like this. It’s always the meatballs that have never served a single day in the military let alone done a tour in a combat zone that have the biggest opinions.
 

GOLDBRIX

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#87
i'd just have to out smart you, or convince you to not fight
How has that worked so far looking at history ? You can not be the first person in the world to have ever thought of this tactic.
Matter of fact history points to passivists being many of the first victims. "If you are not for us YOU are AGAINST US " and you'd be killed on the spot.
A saying you still here in certain military circles " KILL THEM ALL, Let God sort them out".

Buck sez "... more important, if i survive anything, my first question would be: (what) Did we win? "
Whether being morally right or wrong as little to do with surviving to another day. ANSWER: Another DAY.
 

the_shootist

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#88
1613920890364.png
 

GOLDBRIX

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#89
What No Cookies ?
The winning side is always the wrong side.
Don't mention the NAZI experiments on civilain twins, and Civilian POWS experimented on with chemicals, and sterilization methods, and using them as slave labor literally working many to death.
Hitler and The NAZIs were just trying to make a better world.
 

the_shootist

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#90
What No Cookies ?
The winning side is always the wrong side.
Don't mention the NAZI experiments on civilain twins, and Civilian POWS experimented on with chemicals, and sterilization methods, and using them as slave labor literally working many to death.
Hitler and The NAZIs were just trying to make a better world.
My mother used to say to me all the time: 2 wrongs don't make a right! Guilty is as guilty does! The winning side always gets to make up history to favor the victors and hides the methods of how they became such
 

GOLDBRIX

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#92
My mother used to say to me all the time: 2 wrongs don't make a right! Guilty is as guilty does! The winning side always gets to make up history to favor the victors and hides the methods of how they became such
Yea, I heard it too. Most moms think their kids can do no wrong either. That does not make mom right, just protective.
 

the_shootist

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#93
Yea, I heard it too. Most moms think their kids can do no wrong either. That does not make mom right, just protective.
Ummm, Mom usually said that to me while she was giving me a lesson about right and wrong. Sometimes I was also introduced to the razor strap depending in the situation and the severity of my transgression. I don't recall her saying anything to me about how she thought I can do not wrong during those sessions.
 

Buck

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#94
How has that worked so far looking at history ? You can not be the first person in the world to have ever thought of this tactic.
Matter of fact history points to passivists being many of the first victims. "If you are not for us YOU are AGAINST US " and you'd be killed on the spot.
A saying you still here in certain military circles " KILL THEM ALL, Let God sort them out".

Buck sez "... more important, if i survive anything, my first question would be: (what) Did we win? "
Whether being morally right or wrong as little to do with surviving to another day. ANSWER: Another DAY.
LOL

if you think this is passive thinking, you've not kept up

Question:
Biden says we all gotta suit up and go fight a war against Canada, do you go?

passive...that's so 60's
 

917601

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#95
I also believe in "To the victor go the spoils" People with too many questions have made this seem wrong, due to those rules of war they want to play by. Hell, ya can't even pick up souvenirs from the battle any more.
Agreed, we made one mistake in WW2, it was “ unconditional surrender” but we didn’t take their women.
 

Buck

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#96
Agreed, we made one mistake in WW2, it was “ unconditional surrender” but we didn’t take their women.
or their land

last i looked, it's all still there
 

Buck

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#97
I also believe in "To the victor go the spoils" People with too many questions have made this seem wrong, due to those rules of war they want to play by. Hell, ya can't even pick up souvenirs from the battle any more.
but in many cases, i'll point out: Who were the 'Victors'? tell me, who were the victors in Grenada? who won in the ME?

and tell me, Rules of Engagement, wtf is that? i could go so negative on our leadership, you already know,

i'm more the 'grunt' but i'll grunt only when it's required

spoils? are you referring to military toys or dead peoples shit? that's kinda sick right there, search them for dangerous stuff, pocket a bit, yeah, i got it, but to not personify it to the dead person you took it from...other soldier? civilian? town mayor? what...how about a dead bloody torn up leaders wife? oh yeah, what a souvenir...or maybe just some trash money

to each their own...brutal does recognize itself and it is required in any society, it just needs to be ... what, accepted? not left in conflict that leaves plenty to come home and be fed drugs where they're no good to me or you or anyone else?

ppfffttt, not working last i checked

i'm not really 'arguing or discussing', i'm merely pointing out all the flanking stuff, no one thinks it fits the puzzle, i've learned it's got some of the best shit, buried there, right to the side of us...


So as a southerner you would have been ok with Union commanders during the civil war shipping back hundreds upon hundreds of wagons loaded with southern wealth looted from cities and plantations.

I hate threads like this. It’s always the meatballs that have never served a single day in the military let alone done a tour in a combat zone that have the biggest opinions.
weird, you make a good point than tear up the reader...

just weird, i agree with your first point
 

Mujahideen

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#98
I think the genocidal rape and pillage move can only come when you have dehumanized your enemy.
 

Buck

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#99
I think the genocidal rape and pillage move can only come when you have dehumanized your enemy.
or just possess a few dehumanized men inside your operation, they'll be happy to teach a few others, if the leadership is willing to look the other way, i mean, it is just warfare after all

but it's a reality...one rarely mentioned

all 'civilized society's' have hit squads or they know how to quickly form one
 

Casey Jones

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V-2 rockets weren't humane either.
And the most-humane plan, especially for generations not yet born...would have been to follow the Allies' original postwar plan of De-Industrialization of Germany. All industries were to be either destroyed or boxed up and shipped to France, Britain or the US as War Reparations. Germany was to get by as an agrarian region - however messy that worked out.

We have Eisenhower to blame for its non-implementation. Ike was worried about starvation....let me see; we had humanitarian outrages in France, Poland, the British Isles, in Czechoslovakia and in occupied Russia...and Eisenhower was worried about THE PERPS GOING HUNGRY?

Had we not relented, we would not have Germany bleeding the rest of Europe through their EC machinations and Frau Comrade Merkel would be one more Russian-immigrant prostitute, long-ago dead.
 

Casey Jones

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The world would be a much better place if we had allied with Germany against Communist Russia, but unfortunately America had a communist sympathizer as President (much like today), so making the world safe for communism was America's top priority.
The unification of Germany was simply a covert takeover by the East.

They never gave up their Communism; and they've made incremental progress in socializing Germany. It's crony-corporatism, now; and crony-banksterism; and the Germans have completely abandoned their marketplace morality...

You can see this, as close as your local VW dealership. Remember when the Beetle was both a good buy and an honest car? Buy it cheap, run it cheap; the dealer fixes what you need, if you cannot.

Those days are GONE. VW and Toyota are an interesting contrast - VW designs a car TO SELL - not to last - and while Toyota's network focuses on cultivating repeat sales with fair after-sale treatment, VW's people show the ethics of a grave robber.
 

mtnman

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but in many cases, i'll point out: Who were the 'Victors'? tell me, who were the victors in Grenada? who won in the ME?

and tell me, Rules of Engagement, wtf is that? i could go so negative on our leadership, you already know,

i'm more the 'grunt' but i'll grunt only when it's required

spoils? are you referring to military toys or dead peoples shit? that's kinda sick right there, search them for dangerous stuff, pocket a bit, yeah, i got it, but to not personify it to the dead person you took it from...other soldier? civilian? town mayor? what...how about a dead bloody torn up leaders wife? oh yeah, what a souvenir...or maybe just some trash money

to each their own...brutal does recognize itself and it is required in any society, it just needs to be ... what, accepted? not left in conflict that leaves plenty to come home and be fed drugs where they're no good to me or you or anyone else?

ppfffttt, not working last i checked

i'm not really 'arguing or discussing', i'm merely pointing out all the flanking stuff, no one thinks it fits the puzzle, i've learned it's got some of the best shit, buried there, right to the side of us...




weird, you make a good point than tear up the reader...
.

There you go with all those questions again. People like you are the reason we are now taught war is not a good thing. The Romans were good at it and the riches of the enemy paid the warriors for fighting
 

917601

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Interesting replies. I prefer to make my mind up by first hand witnesses. My father was a decorated infantryman in late WW2, I have read his V mail letters over and over, certain things stick in my mind: 1) writing home he mentioned most the houses in Germany had a crucifix displayed inside, some had a swastika. He disliked immensely Roosevelt, whose orders to turn back many refugees at bayonet point fleeing the Soviets resulted in their certain deaths. The few SS they captured usually were shot being escorted to the rear, attempting to escape of course. He disliked the French, many took pot shots at them, either angry at the bombings or Nazi sympathizers ( the transport trucks they would ride in would often run over Frenchman and woman in the roads), his division did liberate two labor camps, death camps, he believed most the Germans had no idea....that said, my mother in Lithuania, welcomed the German Army as they rolled in as their area was under Soviet control and many were deported to Siberia. When the Germans arrived, they took some animals, always left a few and gave them money. When the Soviets came, they took everything, raped everyone, then deported them. My only conclusion: WW2 ETO was pure hell for all.
 

dacrunch

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My only conclusion: WW2 ETO was pure hell for all.
Not all... My father, after a few weeks in Normandy escorting POWs, was stationed at the best hotel in a posh French Ski Resort, with 3 other GIs (since he'd trained in Colorado with the Ski Patrol, or whatever they were called. 2-guy mortar teams on skis, each with a knapsack, one with the base mount, the other with the barrel, strapped on top, ammo split up. Must have been some rough snow-plowing! Never had any "action".)

With the whole hotel staff & supplies at their beck & call. My dad was the only (stupid?) one who stuck to his k-rations and didn't even have a glass of their wine.
- Principles...
And ended up meeting my mother-to-be... at a "social" nearby...
 

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There you go with all those questions again. People like you are the reason we are now taught war is not a good thing. The Romans were good at it and the riches of the enemy paid the warriors for fighting
and you keep throwing knives at me...

war was never a good thing, they should have taught that

war is an elites game, you're a cog, they should have taught that

time to stop an enemy is at the political level but they never let their hands get bloody unless they're killing a child they're fucking

your mindset is to actually let it burn, whether you admit that or not, but, i'll suggest; it's not a good thing at the reality level

go get 'em soldier, just wait for someone to tell you who to kill...it's just a war, and you don't win jack-shit...you're never a victor, you're just a soldier...shoulda taught you that
 

GOLDBRIX

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LOL

if you think this is passive thinking, you've not kept up

Question:
Biden says we all gotta suit up and go fight a war against Canada, do you go?

passive...that's so 60's
BAD choice of situation. I'd rather go after Bidet.
 

GOLDBRIX

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I think the genocidal rape and pillage move can only come when you have dehumanized your enemy.
Not genocidal rape. It needs to be total genocidal elimination. "The hand that rocks the cradle rules the world".
Ever notice how women can bring shit up in an argument that happened years ago or you paid zero attention too at the time ?
 

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Not all... My father, after a few weeks in Normandy escorting POWs, was stationed at the best hotel in a posh French Ski Resort, with 3 other GIs (since he'd trained in Colorado with the Ski Patrol, or whatever they were called. 2-guy mortar teams on skis, each with a knapsack, one with the base mount, the other with the barrel, strapped on top, ammo split up. Must have been some rough snow-plowing! Never had any "action".)

With the whole hotel staff & supplies at their beck & call. My dad was the only (stupid?) one who stuck to his k-rations and didn't even have a glass of their wine.
- Principles...
And ended up meeting my mother-to-be... at a "social" nearby...
Interesting. My old man, too, did the Colorado vacation thingy, before the Army discovered he spoke perfect German, knew the land and customs...he was in fact a dual national, German and American. He was 17 when called up; he had left Germany at age 12.

Colorado was no vacation, at the time. Where Vail is, now, there was an army installation...training troops on skis and snowshoes and winter survival, but my old man was part of a test of field rations. K-rations were not intended for continuous staples - only short-term. The army was experimenting with a host of others...and some of their tests were quite sinister.

There were, for example, Z Rations. CANDY BARS. The poor schitts who drew that assignment were to eat their candy and then hike and ski in the Colorado winter until exhausted, and the docs (from the Josef Mengale School of Ethical Medicine, no doubt) would take notes.

My father was part of the "control" group, doing his winter fun on K-Rats. Of course it ended when his "talents" were uncovered - he'd hoped to go to the Pacfic, where at least he wouldn't be shot as a traitor if captured. He hoped.

No such luck - nor did he make it to any Swiss ski chalet. He did find two teen German girls sneaking around, looking for food...but that only turned into a platonic relationship that lasted all their lives.
 

mtnman

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and you keep throwing knives at me...

war was never a good thing, they should have taught that

war is an elites game, you're a cog, they should have taught that

time to stop an enemy is at the political level but they never let their hands get bloody unless they're killing a child they're fucking

your mindset is to actually let it burn, whether you admit that or not, but, i'll suggest; it's not a good thing at the reality level

go get 'em soldier, just wait for someone to tell you who to kill...it's just a war, and you don't win jack-shit...you're never a victor, you're just a soldier...shoulda taught you that
1607923759028.png
 

mtnman

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img (1).jpg
 

mtnman

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the_shootist

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The world would be a much better place if we had allied with Germany against Communist Russia, but unfortunately America had a communist sympathizer as President (much like today), so making the world safe for communism was America's top priority.
^^^There it is right there. This man (SMC) has done enough research to understand all was not as history has described^^^

FDR wasn't a great American hero, he was a communist! He took us into a war that we should have stayed out of. (Same for Wilson re: WWI)

Our boys didn't die to preserve freedom like that were told. They died supporting communism and the DS bankers.

Those heroes are still our heroes and their bravery and valor remains unblemished but; they died for no good reason. That's true for all the world's brave soldiers who die fighting for what they believe is right.
 
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Buck

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yeah, i understand your pov...and you probably believe i'm against you or this ideology, on every level

i'm not, i understand it

you're great in a bar room or a battle field, you'd be a great wingman, but at every point in the game, you'd have us busting knuckles instead of solving problems

might makes right, till a bigger man comes along

towns and counties have been run by what have now been termed as Thugs, see, let me point out, most men are not up to the standards of turning their rage on / off whenever they choose, it's more a nature thing

that can and does make that stereotype a danger to all especially when there ain't any warring going on...that's why .gov applies medicines

i'd suggest you know yourself and understand: most of your life, you're not going to need aggression and remember, there are men in this world, leaders, who'd soon enough send any one of us to our death, then go eat some caviar while the MSM portrays our actions as heroic while what we were doing was securing some other countries gold...for these men

along the way, we kill 50 or more...no worries, 'Did we get the gold?'
(and remember, I don't get any, I died, and the survivors won't get any either, they'll have to go and buy themselves some of their own)
 

Buck

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o.k.

here's what violence is:
Failure of Leadership

so, to contain / control Failure of Leadership, we go to war
we kill the old leader
we install new leader

Voila, we're fixed, we stole a lot of souvenirs, killed a lot of soldiers along the way, and finally killed the old leader

and we just grin and admit: We're Fixed!
we recognize the dead once or twice and move on...till it happens the same exact way, again and again and again

here's my question...
so, why aren't we at war with our Failure of Leadership? it would seem to be the historic thing to do...what's holding us back? because we're all pussies and won't live up to the standard of accepting full aggression?....

or is it more like: That's not really the story?

story goes more like this:
That other country has gold / oil / minerals / and I want them...you men, over there, be patriots and go secure them for me, er, US

RIP,
Ka-Ching...

like lemmings off the cliff...

Hitler could have been stopped, Stalin could have been stopped, etc...the world leaders act as if each of them are in a cocoon, they sell that shit to us and we eat it up

they have the money, they have the influence, they only need their 'toy soldiers' to apply their aggression towards others as individually, they really don't have any influence without their military

i'm not denigrating soldiers, God Love 'em, they're needed, unfortunately...but we're not to be sent out to any slaughter, that's so 300's, it's embarrassing the worlds leadership hasn't found a better way for countering Failed Leaders across these centuries

think about it:
there is enough ability to wipe out humans survival on this planet, several times over


yeah, that's what we've been told will one day be used to Save Us

the mind-set we have today about war is so distorted, but it serves so many purposes, other than to actually settle differences...

and i'll admit, there maybe points in all of this, i might need some adjustment, but, i'll finish:
We're Not Where We're Supposed To Be

and that includes our Understanding of Things

you're not wrong, none of what is being projected out here, Patriots, none of it is wrong but it's been improperly applied for so long as to maybe be considered to be wrong, just needs to be readjusted, refocused, that's probably more simply the truth about my opinion than anything else...

:green tea:
 

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I He disliked the French, many took pot shots at them, either angry at the bombings or Nazi sympathizers ( the transport trucks they would ride in would often run over Frenchman and woman in the roads).
Sounds like great guys. True heroes. Did they run over children too or just women? THey had it coming though, amiright!!!???
 

Buck

Trying Something Different!
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after re-reading what i posted, i empathize if anyone 'felt' anything

nothing to edit...2¢

we've been played too long, i'm 'done', no longer participating in many ways

and like many here; want my shit? come get it...there, now i won't have to post it again, because if you were to really need something i have, i'd be inclined to maybe just give it to you, situational awareness and all that stuff

otherwise? who knows...;)

o.k.