• "Spreading the ideas of freedom loving people on matters regarding high finance, politics, constructionist Constitution, and mental masturbation of all types"

Farm Tractor thread

JustPassinThru

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Joined
Dec 13, 2011
Messages
2,711
Likes
1,527
Location
a better place
A lot depends on your area. Where I'm at, I could leave it running in the field for a weekend...nothing would happen.

If theft is a problem in your area...get it inside. If it's not known that it's there, it won't be stolen. Few will break into sheds on speculation.

A chain and lock will stop a thief - for ten seconds. Both are easy to cut with bolt-cutters.
 

mcmurph

Seeker
Seeker
Joined
Apr 6, 2010
Messages
435
Likes
315
It's amazing, looking at it in profile, how similar it is to the 9N/2N/8N. I have never seen a Ferguson tractor in person...Massey-Fergusons don't count.

I knew from reading that the N-series Fords were based on Ferguson's designs; but I didn't realize the were exact copies...

Harry Ferguson linked up with Henry Ford with a handshake. Since the Ford N was basically a copy that should have been LICENSED...that was very foolish of Harry. Especially since the basic design continued right up into the 1980s...different gearing and engines, but the layout, steering and suspension and details, obviously based on the N and the Ferguson.
That is simply not true. All Ferguson brought to the table when he met Ford in 1938 was was the 3 point hitch with draft control. Ford engineers worked with Ferguson engineers to incorporate the 3 point into a tractor designed and built by Ford. Edsel Ford was the man most responsible for the styling of the tractor. Ferguson would procure the implements for the tractor and Ford built the tractor.

After their split, Ferguson made his tractors to look similar to the tractors of Ford to 'stick it to them', so to speak and incorporated things he wanted in the 9N but didn't get in the design process, an OHV engine in particular. However, the 8N was a more versatile tractor and sales backed that up.
 

JustPassinThru

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Joined
Dec 13, 2011
Messages
2,711
Likes
1,527
Location
a better place
Hmmm....that doesn't jibe with what I'd read - I'm not saying you're wrong.

As I understand it, Ferguson had his design and was manufacturing it in England. His plans for a North American plant fell through...I don't recall the details. But that's where Henry Ford got in.

Ford was always interested in farm tractors...the Ford & Son company before the war; and experiments went forward with a flathead V8 tractor. But there was no conception of how to make a safe rear-hitch system.

So my understanding was, Ferguson brought his specs in and Ford rapidly tooled up. If you look at that Ferguson...it's more than styling. The spine of the tractor is an exact copy...right down to the gear lever. The steering box by the operator's knees is a design singular at the time to Ferguson and Ford; as well as the two-pitman-rod steering arrangement. Unique to the times, when most tractors had a long steering shaft, the gear up front, and then a tie-rod to the front wheels.

There's too much similarity to be coincidental.
 

Argent Dragon

Site Support
Site Bus
Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 29, 2010
Messages
8,295
Likes
3,027
Location
Lone Star State
Ford ~ Ferguson

Here's some info from Wikipedia (although I know accuracy can be challenged with such a source):

Ferguson tractors history:


The model name came from Tractor, England 20 horsepower (not the true power delivered but from a formula based on engine size, see tax horsepower).

The TE range of Ferguson tractors were introduced in England in 1946 following 30 years of continuous development of 'The Ferguson System' from 1916. The first work was to design a plough and linkage to integrate the tractor with its work in a manner that was an engineering whole. The automatic control system is now employed by almost all tractor manufacturers worldwide. A British patent was applied for by Harry Ferguson in 1925 and granted the following year.


By the early 1930s the linkage design was finalised and is now adopted as international standard category I. Just one prototype Ferguson System tractor, known as the Ferguson Black, was built to further technical development and for demonstrating to potential manufacturers. During 1936 the first production Ferguson tractors were built in Huddersfield, Yorkshire, by the David Brown Company. This tractor, the Ferguson Model 'A', incorporated Harry Ferguson's 'suction side' hydraulic control system, the key to solving sensitive automatic control of three point mounted implements and patented on 5 February 1936 (patent no 470069). The combination of Ferguson's converging three point hitch, patented on 3 July 1928 (patent no 320084) with his 'suction side control' valve is the key to the success of all subsequent Ferguson and later Massey Ferguson 'Ferguson System' tractors, the most important of which are the TE and TO 20 models. (It was the production of the Model 'A' that led in 1939 to the David Brown line of tractors).[SUP][1][/SUP]
In order to get volume production with lower costs, following a demonstration of his tractor before Henry Ford Senior in October 1938, Ferguson made a gentlemen's agreement with Ford to produce the Ferguson tractor in Detroit starting in mid-1939.[SUP][citation needed][/SUP] About 300,000 of these tractors, known as 'Ford Fergusons', were produced up to 30 June 1947.



During the War years the Ferguson design team developed many improvements to both tractor and implements and started to make arrangements to manufacture in the United Kingdom. The agreement with Ford in 1938 was to include production at the Ford plant at Dagenham, Essex, but the UK Ford company would not do it.[SUP][2][/SUP] By 1945 Ferguson had made a manufacturing agreement with the Standard Motor Company of Coventry to produce a Ferguson tractor incorporating all their latest improvements and to be known as the TE20, i.e. 'Tractor England'.[SUP][citation needed][/SUP] As well as allowing Ferguson to get his tractor into full production, the deal was of great benefit to Standard as the tractor would be built in its huge 'shadow factory' which had been an aero engine plant during WWII but was now standing empty and was of no use to what was a relatively small car company. Standard developed a new wet-liner engine for the tractor, which would in turn be used in Standard's road cars, such as the Vanguard.


Production started in the late summer of 1946, nearly a year before the last Ford Ferguson came off the line in Detroit in June 1947. The break with Ford left Harry Ferguson and his US company with implements to sell but no tractors. To make up the gap until the new Ferguson factory in Detroit started in October 1948, over 25,000 Coventry-built TE20s were shipped to the USA and Canada. The TO (Tractor Overseas) 20 was virtually the same as the TE20.


Coventry production up to 1956 was 517,651 units, with about 66% being exported, mainly to Continental Europe and the British Empire but to many other countries as well. To the above figure must be added TO production at Ferguson Park, Detroit. Including all 'Ferguson System' tractors from May 1936 to July 1956 brings the figure to approximately 1 million.[SUP][citation needed]

[/SUP]

Harry Ferguson merged his worldwide companies with Massey-Harris of Toronto in July 1953, three years before TE and TO20 production ended, hence the change of name on the serial plate to 'Massey-Harris-Ferguson'. The Ferguson 35 replaced the old line in the US in 1955 and the TE20 in the UK in 1956, production in the UK starting in September of that year following re-tooling of the factory.
 

Argent Dragon

Site Support
Site Bus
Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 29, 2010
Messages
8,295
Likes
3,027
Location
Lone Star State
Here's another pic under the hood showing more of the Z120 Continental (came from the original ad of CL):

00q0q_lQC3QGu5JmD_600x450.jpg
 

ttazzman

Midas Member
Midas Member
Sr Site Supporter
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
5,608
Likes
5,900
Location
mid-usa
Take care of that tractor and if you sell it you will get what you paid or more out of it........

you will really enjoy that tractor .....but soon you will learn its limitations and want more...

fwiw........diesels dont have points/distributors/magnetos to deal with


as far as fords vs Fergusons i thought it was the 3point link that Ford basicly stole from Ferguson
 
Joined
Jul 5, 2011
Messages
153
Likes
94
Location
se co
I like your new tractor, but I think you bought too small a machine. I still stand behind my recommendation of a JD 4020 w front bucket and attachments, that machine isnt going to do all you need it to do.

That is a nice garden tractor however, and would be great for farming a 2-3 acre garden/microfarm.

PO
 

ttazzman

Midas Member
Midas Member
Sr Site Supporter
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
5,608
Likes
5,900
Location
mid-usa
I like your new tractor, but I think you bought too small a machine. I still stand behind my recommendation of a JD 4020 w front bucket and attachments, that machine isnt going to do all you need it to do.

That is a nice garden tractor however, and would be great for farming a 2-3 acre garden/microfarm.

PO
while i agree 4020 sized tractor with a loader would do him well..........he is only dealing with 5acres....he could run on fuel all day for what it would take to warm up those old JD 6 cylinders
 
Joined
Jul 5, 2011
Messages
153
Likes
94
Location
se co
while i agree 4020 sized tractor with a loader would do him well..........he is only dealing with 5acres....he could run on fuel all day for what it would take to warm up those old JD 6 cylinders
Some of those old 4020's come in propane.......the fuel aint that bad, and easy to store.

Personally id like to think ole' AD is just getting his feet wet w that 5 acres, and will be buying adjoining properties when ops arrive. he might be ranching, feeding cattle, running a welding/fab shop, or, etc.........

A man needs a maid........... that can lift a 1600 lb round bale of triticale, or some 40' joints of 6" well casing, or big red steel beams for a hotrod shop.

That little tractor wouldnt do it with wheel weights.

And I still like that little ferguson, as a great farm garden tractor. Its just a bit one demensional by my reconning.

regards, PO
 

ttazzman

Midas Member
Midas Member
Sr Site Supporter
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
5,608
Likes
5,900
Location
mid-usa
PO.......there is absolutly no question in my mind that AD needs a Loader Tractor.......like you said he is just getting his feet wet and he may not know yet how bad he needs one because he has never had one .....when he gets one he will look back and remember this thread..
 

Argent Dragon

Site Support
Site Bus
Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 29, 2010
Messages
8,295
Likes
3,027
Location
Lone Star State
PO.......there is absolutly no question in my mind that AD needs a Loader Tractor.......like you said he is just getting his feet wet and he may not know yet how bad he needs one because he has never had one .....when he gets one he will look back and remember this thread..
Taz,
I believe you nailed it and to confirm this is just about getting my feet (err....claws) wet. :thumbs_up:
 

hoarder

Dat Member
Site Supporter
Platinum Bling
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
12,182
Likes
13,337
Location
Montana
Taz,
I believe you nailed it and to confirm this is just about getting my feet (err....claws) wet. :thumbs_up:
Once you get the hang of it you can sell the 5 acres and the Ferguson and buy a few hundred acres and a 60 HP diesel 4x4 tractor with a front end loader.;)
 

Argent Dragon

Site Support
Site Bus
Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 29, 2010
Messages
8,295
Likes
3,027
Location
Lone Star State
Once you get the hang of it you can sell the 5 acres and the Ferguson and buy a few hundred acres and a 60 HP diesel 4x4 tractor with a front end loader.;)
Oh yeah, that sounds like a good plan :thumbs_up:...........but for now,

Tractor 008.jpg
 

ttazzman

Midas Member
Midas Member
Sr Site Supporter
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
5,608
Likes
5,900
Location
mid-usa
AD........i have a small bush hog exactly like that one i use once in a while in tight rough places......couple of things about it.... FWIW i use my small brush hog aggressively

#1 i took a piece of PVC pipe about a foot shorter than the chain and put over the chain.....i noticed when i was backing over a sprout or heavy brush the back of the mower would raise up and the chain would be down on the PTO shaft.....was a safty issue for me to keep the chain out of the PTO shaft


#2 i went ahead and put a slip clutch on the PTO shaft to keep it from shocking the tractor when i hit tough brush they are about $100 and i got it at a local farm supply ......less work than schear pins too

#3 i have a hard time keeping the back wheel assembly on the bolt that holds the square tube on seems to come out easily I finally just left it off the last time i fell off....

#4 remember they will toss rocks out the front occasionally (had them break a cab glass now and then) be kinda rough on the back of a persons head

the one i have like that i use for the really bad stuff ....beat the crap outa it....it still does great....if your just mowing tall grass on flat land you probably dont need to worry about the things i mentioned
 

hoarder

Dat Member
Site Supporter
Platinum Bling
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
12,182
Likes
13,337
Location
Montana
#2 i went ahead and put a slip clutch on the PTO shaft to keep it from shocking the tractor when i hit tough brush they are about $100 and i got it at a local farm supply ......less work than schear pins too
Good thing you mentioned that. Another reason to get the sprag override slip clutch is that without it, the momentum of the bushog spinning will propel the tractor when you're trying to stop it, which can get pretty dangerous.

IIRC they come in two sizes, 1 1/8" and 1 1/4", that's the outside diameter of the PTO shaft on your tractor. They originally came in the smaller size, then the larger size became the standard.
 

Attachments

ttazzman

Midas Member
Midas Member
Sr Site Supporter
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
5,608
Likes
5,900
Location
mid-usa
Yes Hoarder.........first option would be a "overrunning clutch" like you show....i forgot those about how those older tractors without live PTO can get pushed......(none of my tractors require one)

for ADs benifit....a overriding clutch will let the tractor drive the pto....not the implement pto drive the tractor........been a many a tractor run into a gate/pond/tree without a overruning clutch

It would suprize me if the setup doesnt already have the overrunning clutch....about one time of pushing the clutch in to stop and the tractor keeping going would be enough for me

I was thinking about a "slip clutch" to absorb system shocks when hitting something solid or heavy like this
 

Attachments

Last edited:

JustPassinThru

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Joined
Dec 13, 2011
Messages
2,711
Likes
1,527
Location
a better place
I used to work with brush-hogs 35 years ago, when I was a kid...well, worked with ONE, on a David Brown tractor. The rotary blade had pivots halfway down each side of the blade...basically the business ends of the rotary knife assembly swung free on a hardened bolt. So if you hit a stump or got into growth too heavy, the blade would just bend back while the drag would slow the tractor to where centrifugal force wasn't so strong.

That in place of a slip clutch. It was a gear-driven assembly the whole way...a shaft with universals at the gearbox end and at the splined PTO end; and then a bevel gear underneath to swing the blade. If you got into trouble with it, the thing was to mash on the clutch...the clutch pedal was actually two clutches; halfway would disengage the drive transmission; to the footboard would disconnect the PTO.

Of course that was a long time ago. David Brown is a dim memory; it's parent, Case, became a puppet; and there's safety gear now I never dreamed of.
 

ttazzman

Midas Member
Midas Member
Sr Site Supporter
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
5,608
Likes
5,900
Location
mid-usa
The rotary blade had pivots halfway down each side of the blade...basically the business ends of the rotary knife assembly swung free on a hardened bolt.

I have never seen a "Brush hog" that the blades were NOT on pivots like you mention..........i have sheared my share of shear pins even with the swing back blades.....

part of the slip clutch is to save schear pins .......but mostly i dont want the shock going back up into my tractor....even on my live pto tractors with pto clutches.....its much easier to replace a $100 implement PTO clutch than the internal PTO clutch on a tractor.

I dont know about the Ferguson Tractor......but many of the old tractors the PTO was tied into the transmission and pushing the clutch for a typical stop would result in the flywheel effect of something like a brushhog to keep the tractor going forward...can be scarry as heck
 

hoarder

Dat Member
Site Supporter
Platinum Bling
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
12,182
Likes
13,337
Location
Montana
I have never seen a "Brush hog" that the blades were NOT on pivots like you mention
Me niether, I think they're all like that. Some people call Bushhogs "flail mowers" and the independent removable blades "flails".

A word to the wise about sharpening flails. Don't...unless all you plan to do is cut grass. A dull flail will frazzle-cut small trees and they will not regrow. A sharp flail will make a clean cut and the tree will re-grow......and worse yet, the sharpened stump will flatten your tires on the next pass.
 

JustPassinThru

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Joined
Dec 13, 2011
Messages
2,711
Likes
1,527
Location
a better place
I don't know about the Ferguson either.

The David Brown (it was a 1974 model) had a number of differences from the Ford 8Ns that we had. Yup, it was all at the same job, on a large country club. The 8Ns had only a one-stage clutch; and the PTO was directly tied into the gearbox. If the PTO was engaged, and the tractor was in gear, it was all interlinked.

It was one reason we seldom used the 8Ns for anything other than pulling gang mowers or moving trailers full of tools or topsoil.

Since the Ferguson was of the same era and shared many of the same parameters...I would expect the same setup there.

I never broke a shear pin on the brush-hog we had. But then we seldom used it...the boss was afraid of it; and afraid for whoever was using it. I think he witnessed a bad accident with one once. Mostly we used industrial rotary mowers for ditch embankments and the like...the brush-hog was a last resort.

The worst I had happen was to wind wet long grass all around the shaft inside. Prop it up, shut down the tractor with the deck up and props underneath, and start stripping out.
 

ttazzman

Midas Member
Midas Member
Sr Site Supporter
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
5,608
Likes
5,900
Location
mid-usa
any tractor built in the 70s should have "live" or "independant" PTO.....the transmission PTO tractors were from my recollection 50s and older

heres some PTO information


http://www.tractordata.com/articles/technical/pto.html

There are three basic types of PTO control on a farm tractor:

Transmission

The simpliest, and earliest, form of PTO is the transmission PTO. The PTO shaft is directly connected to the tractor's transmission. The PTO is only working when the tractor's clutch is relased, so if you take the tractor out of gear while slowing down the PTO will stop working. This is a disadvantage in applications such as mowing.

An overrunning clutch is often needed with a transmission PTO. Without it, the driven equipment (such as mower blades) will put a force on the PTO shaft, and then the transmssion, due to inertia. The equipment will "drive" the tractor, and you will still move after using the tractor's transmission clutch. An overrunning clutch prevents this from happening by allowing the PTO shaft to freely spin in one direction. In more recent models, this is built into the tractor. In older tractors, it is an extra piece of equipment mounted on the PTO shaft.

Live (two-stage clutch)

A live PTO works with the use of a two-stage clutch. Pressing the clutch half-way will disengage the transmission while pressing it fully will disengage the transmission and the PTO. This allows the operator to slow down or change gears while the PTO is still operating.

Independent

An independent PTO means that the PTO shaft is controlled with a separate clutch. As with a live PTO, this allows for full control over the tractor while separately controlling the PTO. There are two major types of independent PTO; mechanical and hydraulic. A mechanical-independent PTO uses a separate on-off selector, in addition to the PTO control lever. Often the tractor must be stopped or off to change this selector position. A hydraulic-independent PTO uses a single selector.
there was also "live" and "non-live" 3pt hitch lifts
 

JustPassinThru

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Joined
Dec 13, 2011
Messages
2,711
Likes
1,527
Location
a better place
Me niether, I think they're all like that. Some people call Bushhogs "flail mowers" and the independent removable blades "flails".

A word to the wise about sharpening flails. Don't...unless all you plan to do is cut grass. A dull flail will frazzle-cut small trees and they will not regrow. A sharp flail will make a clean cut and the tree will re-grow......and worse yet, the sharpened stump will flatten your tires on the next pass.
A flail mower is entirely different. A flail mower has a drum, like a reel mower but a solid drum, with flanges out of it. Bolted to the dozens of flanges were flail knives...they would hang off and at the end would be bent at right angles. The ones I saw were two-piece per knife, so the cutting edge was shaped like a T. The drum would spin and the flails would whack or tear off the tops of the grass
 

Attachments

Eat Beef

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
2,740
Likes
1,769
Location
Third Coast
Passin through is right, the above is a flail mower, your average bush hog is a rotary mower.

Flails are a lot tougher, and do a better job on tough residue, but they require a lot of horsepower and are expensive. I doubt that they'd work real well on large saplings, you for sure couldn't back into them.
 

Argent Dragon

Site Support
Site Bus
Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 29, 2010
Messages
8,295
Likes
3,027
Location
Lone Star State
Good thing you mentioned that. Another reason to get the sprag override slip clutch is that without it, the momentum of the bushog spinning will propel the tractor when you're trying to stop it, which can get pretty dangerous.

IIRC they come in two sizes, 1 1/8" and 1 1/4", that's the outside diameter of the PTO shaft on your tractor. They originally came in the smaller size, then the larger size became the standard.
Hey guys, that looks like what I have on the back as the seller told me it has a slip-clutch which I was a little confused about. I'll need to verify that this is the part but I'm fairly certain it's installed on the end of my PTO shaft because I was wondering what that thing was.

Thanks for the pic Hoarder ! :thumbs_up:
 

Argent Dragon

Site Support
Site Bus
Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 29, 2010
Messages
8,295
Likes
3,027
Location
Lone Star State
*Also, I was in contact with the seller again and he's offering one heckuva deal on his Massey-Ferguson *diesel* 175 tractor which has the hi-lo feature combining with the 4-gears to produce 8-speeds + it has 2 remotes & power steering. I'm really getting pumped up about it and the wife is rolling her eyes asking do we really need this ?!? .........well, uhh I need a tractor that can handle a loader.......I'm thinking I'd still be ahead installing my own loader or would buying one that already has one installed save me in the long run ?

On the specifics, it has a new battery and new front tires and although not as clean as my TO-20, he has taken really good care of it, everything works, and he's looking for 3500 cash. Sorry, no pics of the actual tractor but here's a representative pic that looks close albeit cleaner than what I'd be buying:

picture-1.jpg
 
Last edited:

hoarder

Dat Member
Site Supporter
Platinum Bling
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
12,182
Likes
13,337
Location
Montana
The Massey looks like a good deal but there is no reason I'd buy a second tractor that doesn't have a front end loader. Lifting heavy objects is part of country living.
 

JustPassinThru

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Joined
Dec 13, 2011
Messages
2,711
Likes
1,527
Location
a better place
*Also, I was in contact with the seller again and he's offering one heckuva deal on his Massey-Ferguson *diesel* 175 tractor which has the hi-lo feature combining with the 4-gears to produce 8-speeds + it has 2 remotes & power steering. I'm really getting pumped up about it and the wife is rolling her eyes asking do we really need this ?!? .........well, uhh I need a tractor that can handle a loader.......I'm thinking I'd still be ahead installing my own loader or would buying one that already has one installed save me in the long run ?

On the specifics, it has a new battery and new front tires and although not as clean as my TO-20, he has taken really good care of it, everything works, and he's looking for 3500 cash. Sorry, no pics of the actual tractor but here's a representative pic that looks close albeit cleaner than what I'd be buying:

View attachment 46543
You don't do things halfway, do you? :s9:

It may also be a good choice. But long ago, I remember hearing a mechanic caution about the differences between the farm tractors and industrial units what were designed or beefed-up by design, for things like a front-end loader. I don't know how relevant it was or is; but it's a truism: Just because there are accessories that can be bolted onto it, doesn't mean it's necessarily a good idea to bolt them onto it.

It's the equipment-version of "planned obsolescence:" They sell you the loader kit; you put it on, and it works but not very well and/or you're breaking axles or other components. So you wind up buying a designed-loader ANYWAY...TWO TIMES a sale to the same customer!
 

Argent Dragon

Site Support
Site Bus
Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 29, 2010
Messages
8,295
Likes
3,027
Location
Lone Star State
The Massey looks like a good deal but there is no reason I'd buy a second tractor that doesn't have a front end loader. Lifting heavy objects is part of country living.
Yes, that's why I plan on installing (or having installed) a front-end loader like this one below:

image6GF.JPG
 

Argent Dragon

Site Support
Site Bus
Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 29, 2010
Messages
8,295
Likes
3,027
Location
Lone Star State
You don't do things halfway, do you? :s9:

It may also be a good choice. But long ago, I remember hearing a mechanic caution about the differences between the farm tractors and industrial units what were designed or beefed-up by design, for things like a front-end loader. I don't know how relevant it was or is; but it's a truism: Just because there are accessories that can be bolted onto it, doesn't mean it's necessarily a good idea to bolt them onto it.

It's the equipment-version of "planned obsolescence:" They sell you the loader kit; you put it on, and it works but not very well and/or you're breaking axles or other components. So you wind up buying a designed-loader ANYWAY...TWO TIMES a sale to the same customer!
I'm stretching a bit to buy this guy's other tractor (and he has half a dozen others but not for sale). The thing is that I already established a relationship and some trust since he's been generous already in fixing up my current setup by installing a new muffler, fixing up the bush hog, and giving me a 'rooster comb' that allows me to drop the front of the shredder to a desired height without dorking around with the draft control which is primitive at best on my 1950 Fergie. Also, since he's older and more experienced I've been taking notes.

I do understand your caution and need to be careful of a *cheap* import bolt-on loader kit that a dealer would luv to sell me. Brand new isn't always preferred for me as I'd rather have a used heavy-duty American made implement when possible to acquire.

One thing about the industrial loaders is that all the ones I've seen in my price range don't have PTO's.........
 

hoarder

Dat Member
Site Supporter
Platinum Bling
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
12,182
Likes
13,337
Location
Montana
Buying a tractor with a plan to add a loader later seldom pans out economically. If you want a tractor with a loader, buy one that has one. Ditto Justpassinthru comments....construction equipment loaders and tractors are far more rugged than ag loaders and tractors. Personally I don't think I'll buy another ag tractor loader. Too flimsy for real work like digging undisturbed ground. That means both the loader and the front axle.
As far as the wife is concerned, tell her the same thing you say when you buys guns..."It's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it".

Edit: True about industrial/construction loaders usually not having PTO's....but if you already have a tractor with a PTO, you need one with a loader next.
That was kind of my strategy.... get another 8N and a construction landscape/skip loader too.
 

JustPassinThru

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Joined
Dec 13, 2011
Messages
2,711
Likes
1,527
Location
a better place
That actually is a hard choice. On the one hand you've got an honest seller who's become a friend and tutor; but he has what you can use but not what you really need.

I guess what it comes down to, is how much you need the loader and how hard you'd be working it. If the Massey is a bargain and you can get a loader on it cheap...it might do. But if you think you'll really be working it; even taking jobs for others with it...maybe you can use the Massey as your primary tractor, sell the old TO-20, and then buy a real loader.

There's about six different variables here - money, need, cost of this guy's stuff versus going back to searching....
 

JustPassinThru

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Joined
Dec 13, 2011
Messages
2,711
Likes
1,527
Location
a better place
Buying a tractor with a plan to add a loader later seldom pans out economically. If you want a tractor with a loader, buy one that has one. Ditto Justpassinthru comments....construction equipment loaders and tractors are far more rugged than ag loaders and tractors. Personally I don't think I'll buy another ag tractor loader. Too flimsy for real work like digging undisturbed ground. That means both the loader and the front axle.
As far as the wife is concerned, tell her the same thing you say when you buys guns..."It's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it".

Edit: True about industrial/construction loaders usually not having PTO's....but if you already have a tractor with a PTO, you need one with a loader next.
That was kind of my strategy.... get another 8N and a construction landscape/skip loader too.
If you look hard enough, you can find loaders with PTOs. Ford used to make industrial models of some of their tractors; (again at that country club) we had a Ford...forget the model number, but it was a factory-setup loader. Industrial paint. How sturdy was the front end? Don't know if it was beefed up; but the rear had a 3-point hitch (two-stage clutch, too) and PTO.

Over at the highway department (the golf course was actually municipally-owned although the country-club leased it) the guys had Internationals with loader buckets on. One had a backhoe; the other a 3-point hitch and PTO.

Now, that was the late 1970s; but there may be some still out there.
 

Argent Dragon

Site Support
Site Bus
Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 29, 2010
Messages
8,295
Likes
3,027
Location
Lone Star State
That actually is a hard choice. On the one hand you've got an honest seller who's become a friend and tutor; but he has what you can use but not what you really need.

I guess what it comes down to, is how much you need the loader and how hard you'd be working it. If the Massey is a bargain and you can get a loader on it cheap...it might do. But if you think you'll really be working it; even taking jobs for others with it...maybe you can use the Massey as your primary tractor, sell the old TO-20, and then buy a real loader.

There's about six different variables here - money, need, cost of this guy's stuff versus going back to searching....
Not trying to harbor information but I'll try to explain some other variables as well. The seller's brother is a farmer as well living on the same road with 230+ acres and has a collection of tractors like a dozen or more with 2 of them being cab style JD's. Now, what I'm getting at is that perhaps I need to tell him my plans about adding a loader which might open the door to other possibilities like selling/installing a loader on the 175 or offering up another tractor (his or his brother's) for sale with a loader already on it. I'm not sure where it can go but they both have tons of farming equipment and need to thin out their herds so to speak. Input from here helps me to ask the right questions which in turn will help me out in the long run.

As for use, I'd like to be able to use the loader to transport debris for cleanup and management of the property as well as some light digging (perhaps a root cellar). Would it be wise to use a sod-buster on undisturbed soil first before trying to scoop up the dirt with a loader ? Keep in mine that I'm a complete newbie on these sorts of things.
 

hoarder

Dat Member
Site Supporter
Platinum Bling
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
12,182
Likes
13,337
Location
Montana
How sturdy was the front end? Don't know if it was beefed up
The issues with loaders and front axles; without power steering they're pretty useless. The American 2WD front axles might be sturdy enough, but 4x4 front axles on ag tractors tend to be extremely light duty, even on respected name brand tractors. 2WD loaders would probably be adequate for 5 acres of gentle terrain, but I wouldn't consider it for my place. The heavy duty 4x4 front axle on a construction tractor, along with power steering makes loader work so much more effective without wearing out the machine. If you need to move a couple thousand yards of undisturbed dirt, that's what you need.
 

hoarder

Dat Member
Site Supporter
Platinum Bling
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
12,182
Likes
13,337
Location
Montana
As for use, I'd like to be able to use the loader to transport debris for cleanup and management of the property as well as some light digging (perhaps a root cellar). Would it be wise to use a sod-buster on undisturbed soil first before trying to scoop up the dirt with a loader ? Keep in mine that I'm a complete newbie on these sorts of things.
Most ag tractor/loaders are not suitable for anything as strenuous as digging a root cellar unless it's in pure sand, and then you would need 4WD.

I drool at the tractor prices you have down there. around here that MF would be 2K more. If you're a little mechanically inclined and gentle with your equipment, it's really hard to lose much money with old rugged tractors. An MF at that price would be a steal for me. I'd be tempted to buy it (if it had power steering) and put that Bushhog on it, then sell the Ferguson and buy a construction/industrial tractor/loader.......but then I ain't married.
 

JustPassinThru

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Joined
Dec 13, 2011
Messages
2,711
Likes
1,527
Location
a better place
Not trying to harbor information but I'll try to explain some other variables as well. The seller's brother is a farmer as well living on the same road with 230+ acres and has a collection of tractors like a dozen or more with 2 of them being cab style JD's. Now, what I'm getting at is that perhaps I need to tell him my plans about adding a loader which might open the door to other possibilities like selling/installing a loader on the 175 or offering up another tractor (his or his brother's) for sale with a loader already on it. I'm not sure where it can go but they both have tons of farming equipment and need to thin out their herds so to speak. Input from here helps me to ask the right questions which in turn will help me out in the long run.

As for use, I'd like to be able to use the loader to transport debris for cleanup and management of the property as well as some light digging (perhaps a root cellar). Would it be wise to use a sod-buster on undisturbed soil first before trying to scoop up the dirt with a loader ? Keep in mine that I'm a complete newbie on these sorts of things.
I'd lay it on the table for him - it can only help.

I don't know how effective a front-end loader would be for digging a cellar - think you'd be better off renting a trackhoe for that. Or maybe he's got an old backhoe. Or...possibly...a backhoe attachment. I've only seen one but obviously then, they exist...this was forty years ago; a half-fast contractor was digging a sewer line for a neighbor's place; and his tractor was an Ford Golden Harvester. Front end loader on it; and - before he set up - he dropped off the backhoe attachment. Went on and off in the field.

Obviously not the heaviest duty. But if one was sold, there may be others out there.
 

Argent Dragon

Site Support
Site Bus
Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 29, 2010
Messages
8,295
Likes
3,027
Location
Lone Star State
So something along these lines might be better ?!?




40Horse Power Diesel Tractor Recent Overhaul , # point PTO , Loader Hydro Shuttle , Good Tires
 

hoarder

Dat Member
Site Supporter
Platinum Bling
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
12,182
Likes
13,337
Location
Montana
So something along these lines might be better ?!?




40Horse Power Diesel Tractor Recent Overhaul , # point PTO , Loader Hydro Shuttle , Good Tires
Does it have power steering?
 

JustPassinThru

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Joined
Dec 13, 2011
Messages
2,711
Likes
1,527
Location
a better place
It might be. You'd have to research the model tractor and find out whether there's real differences between that and the 175 you were looking at.

And if there really isn't, it's not necessarily a deal-buster. If it comes like that cheaper than you could have your own loader put on, you're still ahead.

You're still 2WD with that, though...one problem with a loader, when you don't have a backhoe on the other end, is lack of traction - at least partly from being nose-heavy.

But, for routine tasks, it should be fine. Weights on the rear wheels will help. Back on the golf course, we loaded small dump trucks and little trailers with our loader...topsoil, fill-dirt and sand for bunkers. And the occasional stump or log with a chain...we'd spin the rear wheels a lot but we'd get the job done.
 

Argent Dragon

Site Support
Site Bus
Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 29, 2010
Messages
8,295
Likes
3,027
Location
Lone Star State
Does it have power steering?
According to Tractordata, the MF-40's (Industrial) have hydrostatic power but that would need to be verified. The MF-175 also has power-steering. And even in my area MF-175's tend to have prices in the $4500-$5000 range. That offer to me was verbal over the phone unadvertised.