• "Spreading the ideas of freedom loving people on matters regarding high finance, politics, constructionist Constitution, and mental masturbation of all types"

First Spouse Coins

Solo

Midas Member
Midas Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
7,173
Likes
7,248
However, is the new proof key coming this year or next? I am a fan of Eric Jordan's idea of "relative scarcity". The current proof key (Garfield) is trading at least 50% above melt.
Why bother with worrying about the proof key though, when the unc's have a better track record, and could be heading toward a new key as well :cool:? Garfield may be a proof key, but there's one on eBay right now for sale at $1125 and no one has clicked BIN. Contrast that with the prices commanded by the last two UNCs to go off-sale (Hayes & Garfield) which are $1700 even for raw examples. Of course if you have plenty of funds and already have all the current UNCs then grab a proof if you like it.

Don't misunderstand me though as I'm not telling you what to do and you should buy what you like, but IMO the uncs are the way to play the spouse gold with current issues. While we're on the subject I think it's also wise for bullion stackers to grab every single '07 Jefferson (unc or proof) and '10 Buchanan (unc or proof) they see if they're priced on melt. I think long term those coins will do alright being part of the 4 coin liberty subset, but you can still buy them now for a bit over melt sometimes. (I saw one dealer at FUN who had the Jeffersons for spot plus $15ea). Hoarding those coins at melt based pricing will probably be a very wise move in the future.

It's been a while since we've posted some related gold pr0n, so here's my favorite spouse pic:

spouse.jpg
 

pay dirt

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Joined
Apr 1, 2010
Messages
1,120
Likes
662
Spouse coin program to be terminated soon? Read an article on coinflation that there is a bill in congress to terminate the president dollar program. If that goes maybe so does the spouses?
 

HistoryStudent

Midas Member
Midas Member
Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
7,061
Likes
3,668
Per MINT BLOG

http://mintnewsblog.com/


The US CONgress passed on the BILL to KILL the presidental dollars: this time ONCE again. But, who knows later on, right?

They have a habit of changing laws like social security.


On that same vein I wanted to remind YOU'S that the premiums on collectable coins via the mint in PMs are unbelievably high.

Right now gold is deflating down to $1600 ish so a spouse should be around $800 plus premium. The 25% premium adds up to a $1000 coin: then if you want to buy it slabbed
figure on another $300 ish premium for a 70 anything.

That in a NUTSHELL tells you these puppies are gonna sink in sales. In fact Silvertowne.com did not even PUT up Frances Cleveland second term anything in the last 8 weeks from the
beginning. IMVHO we'll see sales like under 1,000 units come 2013. Everyone I see in public is REALLY anxious, worried, scared, shaking, and almost crying about the economy.

Don't get flushed with them.

 
Last edited by a moderator:

Solo

Midas Member
Midas Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
7,173
Likes
7,248
Saw an unc 2008 Monroe at the show today for $825 and had to pass as I was busted. Also saw a proof Van Buren raw for $1400 (in perfect shape) that the guy was flexible on as well. Meh, you can't buy them all...

In the meantime though I'm watching the mint page like a hawk these days. I'm crossing my fingers and hoping we see a coin go dark soon :cool1:
 

savvydon

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Joined
Dec 14, 2010
Messages
2,985
Likes
2,579
Saw an unc 2008 Monroe at the show today for $825 and had to pass as I was busted. Also saw a proof Van Buren raw for $1400 (in perfect shape) that the guy was flexible on as well. Meh, you can't buy them all...

In the meantime though I'm watching the mint page like a hawk these days. I'm crossing my fingers and hoping we see a coin go dark soon :cool1:
Yes, that and looking forward to the light of some of the upcoming issues blinding the public from some potentially historic deals while metals spend the winter in the crapper. :cool:
 

HistoryStudent

Midas Member
Midas Member
Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
7,061
Likes
3,668
I'm counting the MOMENTS...

banquier1.gif
 

HistoryStudent

Midas Member
Midas Member
Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
7,061
Likes
3,668
Mint ups gold and platinum prices as metals slide downward in the marketplace.

Average spouse is $1,000 now with gold in it worth only $790.00.

Mint intelligence like it's oxymoron military intelligence is rhyming.

That'll do its part in KILLING sales, right?



Numismatic Gold and Platinum Product Prices Increased

goldDespite recently lower precious metals prices, the US Mint increased prices for available gold and platinum numismatic products today. The increases were the result of the adoption of a new pricing grid, as discussed in this previous post.

The price of the 2012 Proof Platinum Eagle was increased from $1,892 to $2,000. The price for proof 2012 First Spouse Gold Coins was increased from $979 to $1,015. The price for the uncirculated 2012 First Spouse Gold Coins was increased from $966 to $995.

The notice within the Federal Register had indicated that the revised pricing grid was “for 2013 gold and platinum products.” However, it appears that the grid will also apply to 2012 gold and platinum products. I had been trying to obtain clarification from the Mint whether or not this would be the case, but despite repeated inquiries I could not receive any clarification in advance.

This year, the US Mint has now announced or implemented price increases for all gold, silver, and platinum numismatic products, with the exception of the silver composition annual sets. These increases come despite precious metals prices which are lower compared to the year ago period and the relatively healthy net margins under the old pricing.

There has been only one price increase announced for a non-precious metal product.
 

HistoryStudent

Midas Member
Midas Member
Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
7,061
Likes
3,668
Mint ups gold and platinum prices as metals slide downward in the marketplace.

Average spouse is $1,020 with shipping now with gold in it worth only $790.00.

These will really be low in sales.



Numismatic Gold and Platinum Product Prices Increased

goldDespite recently lower precious metals prices, the US Mint increased prices for available gold and platinum numismatic products today. The increases were the result of the adoption of a new pricing grid, as discussed in this previous post.

The price of the 2012 Proof Platinum Eagle was increased from $1,892 to $2,000. The price for proof 2012 First Spouse Gold Coins was increased from $979 to $1,015. The price for the uncirculated 2012 First Spouse Gold Coins was increased from $966 to $995.

The notice within the Federal Register had indicated that the revised pricing grid was “for 2013 gold and platinum products.” However, it appears that the grid will also apply to 2012 gold and platinum products. I had been trying to obtain clarification from the Mint whether or not this would be the case, but despite repeated inquiries I could not receive any clarification in advance.

This year, the US Mint has now announced or implemented price increases for all gold, silver, and platinum numismatic products, with the exception of the silver composition annual sets. These increases come despite precious metals prices which are lower compared to the year ago period and the relatively healthy net margins under the old pricing.

There has been only one price increase announced for a non-precious metal product.
 

badhop55

Silver Member
Silver Miner
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
617
Likes
185
Mint ups gold and platinum prices as metals slide downward in the marketplace.

Average spouse is $1,000 now with gold in it worth only $790.00.

Mint intelligence like it's oxymoron military intelligence is rhyming.

That'll do its part in KILLING sales, right?



Numismatic Gold and Platinum Product Prices Increased

goldDespite recently lower precious metals prices, the US Mint increased prices for available gold and platinum numismatic products today. The increases were the result of the adoption of a new pricing grid, as discussed in this previous post.

The price of the 2012 Proof Platinum Eagle was increased from $1,892 to $2,000. The price for proof 2012 First Spouse Gold Coins was increased from $979 to $1,015. The price for the uncirculated 2012 First Spouse Gold Coins was increased from $966 to $995.

The notice within the Federal Register had indicated that the revised pricing grid was “for 2013 gold and platinum products.” However, it appears that the grid will also apply to 2012 gold and platinum products. I had been trying to obtain clarification from the Mint whether or not this would be the case, but despite repeated inquiries I could not receive any clarification in advance.

This year, the US Mint has now announced or implemented price increases for all gold, silver, and platinum numismatic products, with the exception of the silver composition annual sets. These increases come despite precious metals prices which are lower compared to the year ago period and the relatively healthy net margins under the old pricing.

There has been only one price increase announced for a non-precious metal product.
They're consistant in light of raising the 2013 P pucks to $250 despite silver being down.
 

HistoryStudent

Midas Member
Midas Member
Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
7,061
Likes
3,668
Flopping spouses:

34 different spouse FLOPS under 5,300 MINTAGES in the last five years.

44 different spouse FLOPS under 7,800 MINTAGES in the last five years.


 
Last edited by a moderator:

wproie

New Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
45
Likes
33
Would it be asking too much of the US Mint to release a spouse or two while the price has taken a dip for once? Or do you think they'll be waiting until Q4 to release all four 2013 Spouses?
 

b_cahill

Seeker
Seeker
Joined
Aug 22, 2012
Messages
202
Likes
156
US Mint Sales report 23 April

FIRST SPOUSE GOLD COINS
Alice Paul Proof 3,291 8
Alice Paul Uncirculated 2,382 4
Frances Cleveland Proof - First 2,708 14
Frances Cleveland Unc - First 2,070 4
Caroline Harrison Proof 2,462 17
Caroline Harrison Unc 1,833 6
Frances Cleveland Proof - Second 2,462 15
Frances Cleveland Unc - Second 1,814 6

Slow sales last week might be due to anticipation of another price drop tomorrow.
 

Oldmansmith

Midas Member
Midas Member
Site Supporter ++
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
4,901
Likes
5,056
Location
Taxachusetts
I have a number of Van Buren and Jacksons in both unc and proof, mostly graded. The price of these semi-numis have held up (HS where are you?) and spot has dropped so it looks like a good time to sell some and buy bullion. I'll be keeping at least one of each of course.

Any advice on best place to sell other than Ebay?

I will of course entertain offers from GIM members.
 

namwalker

Seeker
Seeker
Joined
Jul 29, 2011
Messages
369
Likes
144
Location
between lost and bewildered
Like a number of other posters here, I have been looking at the mint's mint site regarding the 1st spouses. Right now an uncirculated coin can be had for $895. However, I do believe that with the recent drop in the POG (since Wednesday $67/oz.) that we will be seeing at lease a drop in price of at least $25 / coin next week.

All of my 1st spouse coins are ungraded with most in proof condition, but I am thinking of going towards the uncirculated coins because of low sales. However, I am unsure about which of the 2012's would be the best value.

Anybody have a recent mintage for these coins?

Thanks..............

But I do have a question concerning potential value during the fall of the pog. If the pog continues to fall I kind of believe that a lower price could bring increased sales which would hinder the rise of these coins in the secondary market. Anybody else see it this way?
 

savvydon

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Joined
Dec 14, 2010
Messages
2,985
Likes
2,579

MrLucky

Silver Member
Silver Miner
Site Supporter
Joined
Apr 27, 2011
Messages
1,077
Likes
618
Location
Down the rabbit hole
But I do have a question concerning potential value during the fall of the pog. If the pog continues to fall I kind of believe that a lower price could bring increased sales which would hinder the rise of these coins in the secondary market. Anybody else see it this way?
And yet, the falling price of gold may convince people that gold isn't such a good purchase after all and (I believe) after an initial pop in buying, things will settle down or even go lower.

And coinupdate May 20, 2013

Alice Paul Proof (2012) ------------------3,411----23
Alice Paul Uncirculated (2012)------------2,436----16
Frances Cleveland Proof - First (2012)----2,802----19
Frances Cleveland Unc - First (2012)-----2,135----14
Caroline Harrison Proof (2012)------------2,577----22
Caroline Harrison Unc (2012)-------------1,941----17
Frances Cleveland Proof - Second (2012)-2,605----33
Frances Cleveland Unc - Second (2012)--1,933----18
 

hernancortes

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Joined
Apr 1, 2010
Messages
1,278
Likes
1,140
But I do have a question concerning potential value during the fall of the pog. If the pog continues to fall I kind of believe that a lower price could bring increased sales which would hinder the rise of these coins in the secondary market. Anybody else see it this way?
For 2012 spouses they have struck as many as will ever be struck. You just have to guess how many that is... If you would've asked me last autumn as they were being struck I would've said about 2000-2200 (uncs). The first 2012 spouse to "go dark" will indicate the rough mintage number for all of them IMO. The feeding frenzy last fall with the Hayes and Garfield probably gave the mint the false impression that there was some kind of resuregence of interest in the series when in reality it was just driven by flippers and speculators. At the pace they are currently selling I would guess the mint will go back to declining mintages for the 2013's, and they will strike them at the last possible moment like last year.
 

savvydon

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Joined
Dec 14, 2010
Messages
2,985
Likes
2,579
For 2012 spouses they have struck as many as will ever be struck. You just have to guess how many that is... If you would've asked me last autumn as they were being struck I would've said about 2000-2200 (uncs). The first 2012 spouse to "go dark" will indicate the rough mintage number for all of them IMO. The feeding frenzy last fall with the Hayes and Garfield probably gave the mint the false impression that there was some kind of resuregence of interest in the series when in reality it was just driven by flippers and speculators. At the pace they are currently selling I would guess the mint will go back to declining mintages for the 2013's, and they will strike them at the last possible moment like last year.
I understand why they didn't roll out the 2013s starting early this year, to give the 2012s time to sell, but I will be surprised if they scrunch them all up into the end of the year like the 2012 debacle. I think we will see the first 2013 roll out by July, August the latest.
 

Oldmansmith

Midas Member
Midas Member
Site Supporter ++
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
4,901
Likes
5,056
Location
Taxachusetts
So I sent an e-mail to APMEX to see what they would offer for my extra spouses. Here is the list, all NGC graded except as noted:


1 Van Buren’s Liberty MS 70
1 Van Buren’s Liberty MS 69
1 Van Buren’s Liberty Uncirculated in OGP

2 Van Buren’s Liberty PF 70 ultra cameo
1 Van Buren’s Liberty PF 69 ultra cameo

1 Jackson’s Liberty PF 70 ultra cameo
1 Jackson’s Liberty PF 69 ultra cameo

1 Louisa Adams MS 69

1 Margaret Taylor PF 69 ultra cameo

1 Anna Harrison MS 70


Here is the response:

"Thank you for your inquiry. Currently the best I can offer for these coins is 98%. Thank you for the opportunity to purchase these items and if there is anything else I can do for you please do not hesitate to contact me.


XXXXX XXXXX
Retail Purchasing Agent

APMEX, Inc.
226 Dean A McGee Ave
Oklahoma City, Oklahoma 73102
(405)-595-2100 ext. 357
1-800-375-9006 ext. 357
www.APMEX.com"



WTF??????
 
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
12,275
Likes
6,184
So I sent an e-mail to APMEX to see what they would offer for my extra spouses. Here is the list, all NGC graded except as noted:


1 Van Buren’s Liberty MS 70
1 Van Buren’s Liberty MS 69
1 Van Buren’s Liberty Uncirculated in OGP

2 Van Buren’s Liberty PF 70 ultra cameo
1 Van Buren’s Liberty PF 69 ultra cameo

1 Jackson’s Liberty PF 70 ultra cameo
1 Jackson’s Liberty PF 69 ultra cameo

1 Louisa Adams MS 69

1 Margaret Taylor PF 69 ultra cameo

1 Anna Harrison MS 70


Here is the response:

"Thank you for your inquiry. Currently the best I can offer for these coins is 98%. Thank you for the opportunity to purchase these items and if there is anything else I can do for you please do not hesitate to contact me.


XXXXX XXXXX
Retail Purchasing Agent

APMEX, Inc.
226 Dean A McGee Ave
Oklahoma City, Oklahoma 73102
(405)-595-2100 ext. 357
1-800-375-9006 ext. 357
www.APMEX.com"



WTF??????
"Modern" numismatics. Folks pumping prices should pump dealer bids. I rest my case.
 

southfork

Mother Lode Found
Mother Lode
Site Supporter ++
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
16,141
Likes
15,248
So I sent an e-mail to APMEX to see what they would offer for my extra spouses. Here is the list, all NGC graded except as noted:


1 Van Buren’s Liberty MS 70
1 Van Buren’s Liberty MS 69
1 Van Buren’s Liberty Uncirculated in OGP

2 Van Buren’s Liberty PF 70 ultra cameo
1 Van Buren’s Liberty PF 69 ultra cameo

1 Jackson’s Liberty PF 70 ultra cameo
1 Jackson’s Liberty PF 69 ultra cameo

1 Louisa Adams MS 69

1 Margaret Taylor PF 69 ultra cameo

1 Anna Harrison MS 70


Here is the response:

"Thank you for your inquiry. Currently the best I can offer for these coins is 98%. Thank you for the opportunity to purchase these items and if there is anything else I can do for you please do not hesitate to contact me.


XXXXX XXXXX
Retail Purchasing Agent

APMEX, Inc.
226 Dean A McGee Ave
Oklahoma City, Oklahoma 73102
(405)-595-2100 ext. 357
1-800-375-9006 ext. 357
www.APMEX.com"



WTF??????
They want to buy everything for free, I offered some 2011 P Chickasaws, they wanted to pay 150 each while they were selling them for over $250, same with Gainesville and the 1st lunar series, offered them some at fun show, wanted to pay a buck over melt when I was getting 2-3 times that on the fleabay, I wont sell anything to these guys, I understand they need to make a profit but that's pure theft.
 
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
12,275
Likes
6,184
They want to buy everything for free, I offered some 2011 P Chickasaws, they wanted to pay 150 each while they were selling them for over $250, same with Gainesville and the 1st lunar series, offered them some at fun show, wanted to pay a buck over melt when I was getting 2-3 times that on the fleabay, I wont sell anything to these guys, I understand they need to make a profit but that's pure theft.
What can YOU get for the stuff TODAY? It's only worth what you can get?
 

hernancortes

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Joined
Apr 1, 2010
Messages
1,278
Likes
1,140
Uh, apmex is only one dealer and they stopped paying anything for modern numis. a couple years ago. You should hit up dealer Mitch at wondercoin.com for a fair offer. You might net more on ebay however. The last sale of a van buren unc in ms69 went for $1375 there.
 
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
12,275
Likes
6,184
With all respect, "coulda, shoulda, woulda" and "you might do better" are shots in the dark. WHAT is the stuff worth TODAY, RIGHT NOW?
 

Deweydog

Seeker
Seeker
Joined
Dec 6, 2010
Messages
455
Likes
259
Shows what the market makers with verry deep pockets really think about "Modern Rarities;"
other than the thin collector market there are few serious buyers.

They know that stuff will eventually fill the melt buckets.
 

Oldmansmith

Midas Member
Midas Member
Site Supporter ++
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
4,901
Likes
5,056
Location
Taxachusetts
Uh, apmex is only one dealer and they stopped paying anything for modern numis. a couple years ago. You should hit up dealer Mitch at wondercoin.com for a fair offer. You might net more on ebay however. The last sale of a van buren unc in ms69 went for $1375 there.
Thanks, fortunately I don't need to sell but I will check out your suggestion. Fine if they don't pay extra if the weren't charging extra. Go to APMEX and look at their sell prices, I mean they want to pay $675 for something they are selling for $1,500?
 
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
12,275
Likes
6,184
Thanks, fortunately I don't need to sell but I will check out your suggestion. Fine if they don't pay extra if the weren't charging extra. Go to APMEX and look at their sell prices, I mean they want to pay $675 for something they are selling for $1,500?
HOW many are they selling? Dead and slow moving inventory has costs associated with it. Just sayin'.
 

hernancortes

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Joined
Apr 1, 2010
Messages
1,278
Likes
1,140
Thanks, fortunately I don't need to sell but I will check out your suggestion. Fine if they don't pay extra if the weren't charging extra. Go to APMEX and look at their sell prices, I mean they want to pay $675 for something they are selling for $1,500?
Yes, that is how they roll with modern PM numis coins, not just spouses. Joke offers and full retail pricing. Apmex used to be geared nearly as much toward classics as they where bullion but they ditched that.
 

Oldmansmith

Midas Member
Midas Member
Site Supporter ++
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
4,901
Likes
5,056
Location
Taxachusetts
Yes, that is how they roll with modern PM numis coins, not just spouses. Joke offers and full retail pricing. Apmex used to be geared nearly as much toward classics as they where bullion but they ditched that.
Joke pricing is right, hell my LCS will at least pay spot.
 

hernancortes

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Joined
Apr 1, 2010
Messages
1,278
Likes
1,140
Individual coins modern or classic heat up and cool off with regularity. Spouses, very hot two summers ago, not now.
Collector buffs, not hot now. $5 unc. gold, not hot either. '95-W ASE, all early-mid-'90's $25 unc. gold eagles, low-mintage burnished $50 gold, all hot.
 

Oldmansmith

Midas Member
Midas Member
Site Supporter ++
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
4,901
Likes
5,056
Location
Taxachusetts
How many times was our resident pumper told that these will all melt the same? I've said it before and I'll say it again. These modern "numismatics" will end up going for melt. Kay Sara Sara
I agree Cubed, they will end up going for melt when spot goes to the moon, but they sure are selling for a lot more than spot at APMEx and on fleabay. I was just hoping to avoid fleabay.

APMEX can of course offer whatever they want, I don't have to sell to them. I don't have to buy from them any more, and I probably won't.
 

hernancortes

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Joined
Apr 1, 2010
Messages
1,278
Likes
1,140
How many times was our resident pumper told that these will all melt the same? I've said it before and I'll say it again. These modern "numismatics" will end up going for melt. Kay Sara Sara

They may all melt the same to Apmex, that much is true. They are also content to sit on certain inventory nearly forever, apparently.
 
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
12,275
Likes
6,184
I agree Cubed, they will end up going for melt when spot goes to the moon, but they sure are selling for a lot more than spot at APMEx and on fleabay. I was just hoping to avoid fleabay.

APMEX can of course offer whatever they want, I don't have to sell to them. I don't have to buy from them any more, and I probably won't.
With all respect again. They are going for melt or less TODAY. Just sayin'.
 

hernancortes

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Joined
Apr 1, 2010
Messages
1,278
Likes
1,140
How can the market for modern numis. be judged by what apmex alone pays? DYODD but I've dealt with wondercoin many a time and he is a moneyed dealer who pays well for the coins he deals in and is serious about. I don't know what he's doing with spouses lately, but for the coins I mentioned that are ascendent now I bet his are among the best offers.
 
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
12,275
Likes
6,184
How can the market for modern numis. be judged by what apmex alone pays? DYODD but I've dealt with wondercoin many a time and he is a moneyed dealer who pays well for the coins he deals in and is serious about. I don't know what he's doing with spouses lately, but for the coins I mentioned that are ascendent now I bet his are among the best offers.
You describe a thinly traded market. ONE dealer. The folks here are hoping for more liquidity with their "investments". Is this not true?