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First Spouse Coins

hernancortes

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Golino:
"I was speaking to my local dealer recently, an establishment with over 40 years in the business, and he told me that even when he offers First Spouse Gold Coins to customers for a lower premium than regular bullion American eagle gold coins, buyers want the eagles. He added that people 'just don’t seem to connect to them'. Even dealers who in the recent past did a fairly substantial amount of business in these coins seem to be largely uninterested in them now because of low demand from customers. If few dealers carry the coins, and few buyers want them, there is just not much of a market for the coins...."


Me: Can someone please connect me to a dealer who would sell me their post-'07 spouses at bullion Gold Eagle prices? I'm being sincere. I just don't see how dealers could get those in any kind of quantity.

Golino:
"I have been trying to build a set of these coins since 2008 and recently decided that it made more sense to give up this pursuit and focus instead on the $5 gold commemorative series, which in my view has a brighter future. It is also a lot easier to collect since the coins are made of half as much gold as the First Spouse Gold Coins, just under a quarter-ounce instead of a half-ounce. And the $5 coins will always be widely collected, which means there is a well-established market for them. Plus the coins in the vast majority of cases have designs that most people find appealing, and though issued for over 30 years there are not that many coins in the series, making it much more realistic to complete than most gold coin series."

Me: Apples and oranges. Both series have an abundance of ugly coins but at least the spouses are cohesive and not sporadic releases of completely unrelated commemorative events/places/people. That really detracts from the $5 commems as a collectible series IMO. Instead, people will just buy the ones that are special to them and skip the others. Yes the spouses will be more difficult and expensive to collect but this argues more for them rather than against, as in the challenge in completing a series they otherwise wouldn't care much about. In achieving their goals coin collectors tend to be a patient bunch.
 

Chester-Copperpot

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What do you guys think of the 2001-W Capitol Visitor Center $5 Gold? I came across one graded MS70 NGC for $1500, and pondering whether to buy or not. I know it holds the second lowest mintage, but that's a hefty price tag.
 

hernancortes

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Me, I'd pass. It's actually 3rd lowest now and pending final audited mintage of the 2012 Star Spangled Banner which coin could take it to 4th. Not a pretty coin anyhow. At that price, probably not much upside. JMHO.
 

HistoryStudent

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What do you guys think of the 2001-W Capitol Visitor Center $5 Gold? I came across one graded MS70 NGC for $1500, and pondering whether to buy or not. I know it holds the second lowest mintage, but that's a hefty price tag.


Frankly, I have a LOT of gold commemoratives and they ABSOLUTELY SUCK compared to the future on the FS spouses.
 
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Solo

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Do you or any others here have any of the 2008-w 1/2 oz. unc. plat's?
I think there are a few of us here who have one or more of those tucked away ;):)... Sadly though the days of finding cheap burnished gold or platinum eagles are mostly behind us as most dealers have caught on and many are now even marking up early 90s bullion gold eagle fractionals :\.

What do you guys think of the 2001-W Capitol Visitor Center $5 Gold? I came across one graded MS70 NGC for $1500, and pondering whether to buy or not. I know it holds the second lowest mintage, but that's a hefty price tag.
That coin definitely commands a premium, but IMO it's a bit of a "legacy" premium and one that is either going to erode in time or will remain stagnate at best. If you're going to buy a numismatic coin you simply have to ask yourself, "what is the upside" and go from there. [EDIT - Naturally you would consider the downside as well, but the point I was making is that if the future doesn't seem bright in the first place then why bother?] We've seen the Visitor Center coin already fall a rung down the mintage ladder recently so that should send a million red flags your way. Granted 100 years from now (assuming people actually care about and collect US coins the way they are collected now) it may prove to be a conditional key as many were handled at some point and not immediately slabbed like most everything these days, but I'd rather buy multiple SSB unc's for closer to melt based pricing than a single VC coin. That way you're possibly getting some numismatic upside while still simply 'stacking' for the most part.
 

HistoryStudent

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The FIRST SPOUSES have in their STABLE already:

26 coins in UNC ALREADY under 3,000 minted coins from 2012 backward

32 coins in PROOF ALREADY under 4,000 minted coins from 2012 backward

That's in the LOWEST 26 and 32 coins respectively since the foundation of America's mintage aka 1794 -

But as you know your mommy should have drowned all the dumb ones ... right!


These coins will be the LOWEST type commemoratives since the foundation of the MINT in the USA
call it the OBAMA legacy.

They are half of the previous coins....
 

savvydon

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The FIRST SPOUSES have in their STABLE already:

26 coins in UNC ALREADY under 3,000 minted coins from 2012 backward

32 coins in PROOF ALREADY under 4,000 minted coins from 2012 backward

That's in the LOWEST 26 and 32 coins respectively since the foundation of America's mintage aka 1794 -

But as you know your mommy should have drowned all the dumb ones ... right!


These coins will be the LOWEST type commemoratives since the foundation of the MINT in the USA
call it the OBAMA legacy.

They are half of the previous coins....
I'm still with ya on the spouses, HS. :thumbs_up:
 

Solo

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I'm still with ya on the spouses, HS. :thumbs_up:
I still believe in the uglies as well:thumbs_up:. However it's hard to pull the trigger on anything spouse wise when the GSR is at 65 (bullion silver is a deal!) and the Smokey Mountain P puck is still available. Regardless, if a huge pile of money fell from the sky I would definitely be buying certain spouse coins right now (best time to buy is when no one wants them) and putting them away. None of them are going to make you rich overnight as all of them are medium to long-term plays IMO, but with so many trading at AGE premiums there really is no numismatic downside when you're paying melt premiums.

On a related note I'm surprised to see the Garfield coin hasn't gained more momentum given her revised mintage as the clear key. Savvy shoppers with the patience to stalk eBay listings and attend shows would be wise to buy Garfield at any price less than $1400 if you don't already have one (and have a core bullion position already). I sure as heck wish I had been online when someone foolishly listed one for $1075 back in February!

Oh, and here's a cool random pic of some b1tch'n spouse coins I found on the internet :cool::
 

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Oldmansmith

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Oh, and here's a cool random pic of some b1tch'n spouse coins I found on the internet :cool::
Looks like my stash...

Too many low mintage uglies for any real key to appear IMHO.

If this keeps going there will be so many low mintage uglies it will be "Death By Ru Ru."
 

Deweydog

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In my mind, I can see the shimmering melting beauty in these "rarities" as they simmer in the refiners molten hot crucibles....just like premium Belgian chocolate in the Las Vegas mid- summers sun.



Come on $3000 gold, lets do it...
 

Mr Paradise

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I picked up a couple of the early releases for around $650 during an APMEX flash sale last year. Whenever I'm going over my account history and I see that old purchase price I get all giddy.
 

Solo

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Here's a neat trick...Take a box from a more desirable coin and swap that coin out with its counterpart (proof vs uncirculated) and then don't say a word about the mismatched packaging in your listing:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2011-First-...10?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item2a3c6c0a46

In the Item Specifics area (a spot most ignore) he does correctly list the strike type as a proof, but IMO the auction is still misleading. Caveat emptor ;)
 

b_cahill

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Here's a neat trick...Take a box from a more desirable coin and swap that coin out with its counterpart (proof vs uncirculated) and then don't say a word about the mismatched packaging in your listing:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2011-First-...10?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item2a3c6c0a46

In the Item Specifics area (a spot most ignore) he does correctly list the strike type as a proof, but IMO the auction is still misleading. Caveat emptor ;)
Solo, I saw that auction yesterday and noticed the deception as well. The real kicker though is that the third and fifth pictures, the ones of the obverse of the coin outside of the box, sure appear to be pictures of an UNC Garfield. Three pictures with an UNC certificate, two boxes marked as UNC and two pictures of an UNC coin. The title and description only say, "2011 First Spouse Lucretia Garfield Gold Coin". That scam auction was no accident, but I am sure that the seller intends to claim it as one after suckering someone into paying for the key UNC spouse and getting a PF instead.
 

hernancortes

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Modern Coin Mart has a special going on all spouses in inventory... 10% off with code 'firstspouse10'... good til monday but the best deals were snagged almost immediately.
 

hernancortes

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It was probably the only chance one would ever have, if you ordered in the first few minutes of their email, of getting unc '12 and '13 spouses for $724 shipped with the discount applied. I was trying to get a few just to fill out the collection, but one was snatched from my shopping cart and others got gone while I was browsing. In the distant future its not gonna be that easy to just pick up a coin for your unc set at will. You're gonna have to pay.
 

Solo

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With a grand total of 5 coins sold last week across all five uncs. available, is there a stronger word than comotose?:confused:
I know interest in the series has collapsed, but five sold across all five available is just nuts. I remember when a slow week in sales was 20 for a particular coin and that wasn't that long ago. I guess the proof buffalo may have something to do with the decline, but then again maybe folks are sick and tired of buying ugly coins :p.

On a related note I stumbled upon a dealer at a decent sized show this past weekend who had at least a dozen spouse coins in his case. I was interested so I started by asking the price of his Julia Tyler unc to which he replied $1550 (way too much for an ms69). Upon hearing that price I didn't even ask about the others. With interest in the series at death's door now is probably a good time to watch true auctions for coins that you need on ebay.
 

HistoryStudent

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May I humbly suggest that the First Spouses will not be under-appreciated forever.

Perhaps just wait until the new mintage lows of 2013 are realized.

That will give them a KICK in ASSETS.

A shot in the BUTT.

There’s no way that gold coins with mintages THIS low (think the turn of the Century NUMBERS not 1900s: BUT the 1800s):

WILL NOT attract some tremendous attention.

Many of the 2013 UNCs will make the 1997 Unc Jackie Robinson look like a high-mintage coin by comparison about 200% more mintage when the dirt clears.

Probably many if not all of the 2013 Unc First Spouses will end below 2,000 coins.

The psychological appeal of a gold coin (that most missed the BOAT ON) with a mintage of 1,9XX will be strong.

The PROOFS will also be in really low numbers - think record LOWS.


Just saying.

Best to all of you,

HS

Keep the faith we are having another 2008 economy glitch right now - but worldwide the NEWS is getting better for a stronger finish THIS YEAR.
 

savvydon

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May I humbly suggest that the First Spouses will not be under-appreciated forever.

Perhaps just wait until the new mintage lows of 2013 are realized.

That will give them a KICK in ASSETS.

A shot in the BUTT.

There’s no way that gold coins with mintages THIS low (think the turn of the Century NUMBERS not 1900s: BUT the 1800s):

WILL NOT attract some tremendous attention.

Many of the 2013 UNCs will make the 1997 Unc Jackie Robinson look like a high-mintage coin by comparison about 200% more mintage when the dirt clears.

Probably many if not all of the 2013 Unc First Spouses will end below 2,000 coins.

The psychological appeal of a gold coin (that most missed the BOAT ON) with a mintage of 1,9XX will be strong.

The PROOFS will also be in really low numbers - think record LOWS.


Just saying.

Best to all of you,

HS

Keep the faith we are having another 2008 economy glitch right now - but worldwide the NEWS is getting better for a stronger finish THIS YEAR.
Hope you are right HS. I am staying in the pocket but it isn't getting any easier. I have no idea what the mint is doing with/to this series. We are again almost half way through the year and no mention of when production will start. You would have thought they had all the bugs out of the system and would try to make it right this year. Instead it almost appears as if the mint is trying to sabotage the series. I am amazed at how unwanted they are. I am trying not to unwant the ones I have. I do believe you are right that at some point people will wake up... but what is it going to take?

Next year Jackie Kennedy arrives. If that don't get it I don't know what will.
 

HistoryStudent

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Sales picked up last week a small tad. About half what the new W MS UNC AGE sold this week.

Jackie is one thing but frankly NUMBER 2 president in ranking FDR's spouse may be interesting fracturing in times, price, gold spot,
economy, ego-political situations when released, and the three prior ones for 2014.

stick with the popular ones if limited in funds:

1=Lincoln
2= FDR
3= Washington
4=Jefferson
5=TR Roosevelt
6=Wilson
7=Truman
8= Stonewall Jackson & Eisenhower tie
10=Polk
 

Oldmansmith

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Hope you are right HS. I am staying in the pocket but it isn't getting any easier. I have no idea what the mint is doing with/to this series. We are again almost half way through the year and no mention of when production will start. You would have thought they had all the bugs out of the system and would try to make it right this year. Instead it almost appears as if the mint is trying to sabotage the series. I am amazed at how unwanted they are. I am trying not to unwant the ones I have. I do believe you are right that at some point people will wake up... but what is it going to take?

Next year Jackie Kennedy arrives. If that don't get it I don't know what will.
I'm out but might actually buy that one. No, it won't be as low mintage as the uglies. The uglies are low mintage for a reason.
 

Solo

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stick with the popular ones if limited in funds:

1=Lincoln
2= FDR
3= Washington
4=Jefferson
5=TR Roosevelt
6=Wilson
7=Truman
8= Stonewall Jackson & Eisenhower tie
10=Polk
Several of those are melt coins so you can't really miss on them as you're essentially just stacking gold. The only coins that seem to be selling for premiums worth mentioning are the pcgs 70's, some of the liberty subset coins, and the current key/semi-keys as most others are melt or don't sell for that much more than the original melt premium.

FWIW I took a couple MS Van Burens to the last FUN show just in case I ran out of cash and needed something. I did wind up needing more money so I shopped them around and most modern dealers (I targeted ones selling modern US mint stuff) weren't even interested in pulling out the grey sheet to make an offer. I did find one who bought one of them at 15% back of bid, but the fact dealers aren't interested in even pulling out the grey sheet tells you interest is anemic at best. Now's definitely a great time to put in low-ball bids on the earlier coins that you don't have as you may get lucky and snag them for not much more than the original melt premium.
 

MrLucky

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I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but fakes are already out there :(
:cry_smile: Have they no decency? Is nothing sacred?


:rolleyes:
 

pitw

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My theory is they are trying to wreck the little mans market so they can sell their hoard for mega bucks.
 

hernancortes

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I wanted to see how both years of unc. 2012 and 2013 were selling about halfway into their availability. Some research... I think this is accurate but might be off by a few coins here and there.

Sales @ week 26 of availability:

2012 Paul --2333
2012 Cleveland 1st term --2070
2012 C Harrison --1948
2012 Cleveland 2nd term --1969

2013 McKinley ----1725
2013 E. Roosevelt ----1692
2013 Taft ----1575
2013 Ellen Wilson ---1505
2013 Edith Wilson---1480
 

savvydon

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I wanted to see how both years of unc. 2012 and 2013 were selling about halfway into their availability. Some research... I think this is accurate but might be off by a few coins here and there.

Sales @ week 26 of availability:

2012 Paul --2333
2012 Cleveland 1st term --2070
2012 C Harrison --1948
2012 Cleveland 2nd term --1969

2013 McKinley ----1725
2013 E. Roosevelt ----1692
2013 Taft ----1575
2013 Ellen Wilson ---1505
2013 Edith Wilson---1480
Interest has fallen off a cliff. You would think one or more of these coins would pop significantly is pop stays this way, but I am not banking on it any more. Still can't understand why we are half way through the year and the mint hasn't even announced 2014 dates yet. You would think they would roll them out at least a month apart and give the collector community a bit of an advanced heads up - unless there was no collector community to give a heads up to. :thumpdown:
 

MrLucky

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At this rate, the "key" to the series may be the last coin.
 

Solo

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Excellent post HC. Given the current year's sales number it makes you wonder if the mint will short strike all of the 2014 coins that they are supposedly working on right now.
 

hernancortes

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These stats might show the sales anemia of last year's coins even better:

2012 uncs week 27 to end of sales period:

Paul --465 coins over 37 weeks
Cleveland 1st --- 384 coins over 32 weeks
C Harrison -- 488 coins over 29 weeks
Cleveland 2nd ---456 coins over 27 weeks

I don't think the hayes, garfield lows get taken out this year minus a short-strike situation, but apply those sales rates to this years coins and you get some seriously low #'s.
 

HistoryStudent

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Interesting to see if the gold and silver prices start to return to their bull market.

Then at the same time the US MINTY does their normal thingie and stops a lot of sales on a lot of precious metal coins.

These old bags, hags, and not to mention a few hot chicks: may surprise even the old men COLLECTORS who think they are smart.


PLEASE:


Go back 100 years when 93 MILLION Americans bought some 1,200 $50 1915 Panama American coins.

PS they are worth an arm and a leg now try $500,000.00 for a MS70 or PF 70.

Then the $100 cost of the $50 coin was very PROHIBITIVE! PLUS. About a months pay ($100). Remembering that we have the
political correctness - we now have a months pay around $1,000 with Mr. "O" on part time. They laid off a million FULL TIMERS -
and then re-hired some two million at part time (read $1,000 month).


Well now today there are some 300 million plus Americans buying some 2,000 LOUSY SPOUSY coins.

Formulate that to tomorrow and remember that of the 220 year history of the US "FUBAR" (fouled up beyond all belief) Minty
like all GOVY B.S. LIKE over all the world history the last 6,000 years - YOU have in this LOUSY SPOUSY some 51 of the
lowest minted coins in their history. That is amazing.

If your mommy missed you (as the dumb one) NOW take a dive in the bath tub or wake up.



Second chance - If your MOMMA did not drown all the dumb ones you'll see the CORRELATION. (Read that as historical do over)

you got it Toyota!

Thank YOU, thank you, thank you...

make your GRAND KIDS a fortune and send them to Harvard,

PS my college University of Redlands now costs more than Harvard - imagine that? And I got two degrees from them.
 
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HistoryStudent

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I see that in 2009 the sales of MS fell to around the 3,500 level

then in 2010 about the same

then in 2011 and 2012 they fell to around the 2,500 level

then in 2013 now they stand around the 1,800 level.


Keep in mind that these latest levels are really low from the US Mint - they push the levels of 200 years ago.


When the USA population was only about 20 to 30% of what we have today....

it will be interesting when these SPOUSES go OFF sale and off availability = just like so many coins prior.
 

Mr Paradise

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Go back 100 years when 93 MILLION Americans bought some 1,200 $50 1915 Panama American coins.

PS they are worth an arm and a leg now try $500,000.00 for a MS70 or PF 70.
I like the cut of your jib HS, my only worry for the long term on these is the amount of chinese fakes that will be flooding the market. While I do believe these are can't misses it is going to be a valley of thorns as far as legitimizing your ladies To potential buyers come sell time. I can only imagine the counterfeiting techniques they'll have in 20 or 30 years (and now even) you're gonna have 2000 legit coins from each issue mixed in with thousands of 1st rate knock offs graded and raw.

I wish the mint would take a more proactive role in countering the inevitable counterfeiting. :eek::(