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First Spouse Coins

hernancortes

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Two weeks left in the year and still no Last Chance notice. They have to have a plan for taking these off sale... will they just cut them without notice Dec. 31?
Current sales as of Dec. 14
Ida McKinley Unc (2013) 1,927 +14
Edith Roosevelt Unc (2013) 1,926 +15
Helen Taft Unc (2013) 1,818 +22
Ellen Wilson Unc (2013) 1,775 +30
Edith Wilson Unc (2013) 1,781 +22
 

savvydon

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Two weeks left in the year and still no Last Chance notice. They have to have a plan for taking these off sale... will they just cut them without notice Dec. 31?
One prediction I can make about the mint is that they always manage to stay unpredictable!
 

hernancortes

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Two weeks left in the year and still no Last Chance notice. They have to have a plan for taking these off sale... will they just cut them without notice Dec. 31?
The mint just announced 2014 commems will go off sale at noon on Dec. 30. Maybe the '13 spouses will mysteriously dissapear then also?
 

savvydon

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The mint just announced 2014 commems will go off sale at noon on Dec. 30. Maybe the '13 spouses will mysteriously dissapear then also?
Beats the heck out of me, but I hope it goes down that way. At least they just put out a 2015 schedule, so maybe they are trying to tidy up a bit.
 

wproie

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The mint just announced 2014 commems will go off sale at noon on Dec. 30. Maybe the '13 spouses will mysteriously dissapear then also?
Surely they meant to say that the 2013 Spouses will go off sale at that time, not 2014? Anyway, I can find no reference to this in their news releases.
 

savvydon

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Surely they meant to say that the 2013 Spouses will go off sale at that time, not 2014? Anyway, I can find no reference to this in their news releases.
Hernancortes was talking about the 2014 commemorative coins. If I am not mistaken these must be sold in the year of manufacture. The spouses are something different altogether. There is nothing to stop the mint from selling the 2013s until maximum mintage is reached.
 

hernancortes

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Current sales as of Dec. 21
Ida McKinley Unc (2013) 1,929 +2
Edith Roosevelt Unc (2013) 1,928 +2
Helen Taft Unc (2013) 1,822 +4
Ellen Wilson Unc (2013) 1,784 +9
Edith Wilson Unc (2013) 1,788 +7

I just realized the mint struck more of all kinds of collector gold coins in 2014 than they did last year, despite a y-o-y downtrend in sales. Gold PR buffalo, Pr gold eagles, and the unc-w gold eagle. The spouses are in a CLEAR downtrend in sales, so I have no idea if/why they would think that would turn around anytime soon. If the '13's are not taken off sale soon, they will have to contend with not just the '14's but the 15's for sales... that would be unprecedented to have 3 years of coins available at once. Seems extremely unlikely.
 

savvydon

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Current sales as of Dec. 21
Ida McKinley Unc (2013) 1,929 +2
Edith Roosevelt Unc (2013) 1,928 +2
Helen Taft Unc (2013) 1,822 +4
Ellen Wilson Unc (2013) 1,784 +9
Edith Wilson Unc (2013) 1,788 +7

I just realized the mint struck more of all kinds of collector gold coins in 2014 than they did last year, despite a y-o-y downtrend in sales. Gold PR buffalo, Pr gold eagles, and the unc-w gold eagle. The spouses are in a CLEAR downtrend in sales, so I have no idea if/why they would think that would turn around anytime soon. If the '13's are not taken off sale soon, they will have to contend with not just the '14's but the 15's for sales... that would be unprecedented to have 3 years of coins available at once. Seems extremely unlikely.
I know what I'm hoping Santa brings me this year. :lollypop:
 

hernancortes

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Current sales as of Dec. 28
Ida McKinley Unc (2013) 1,931 +2
Edith Roosevelt Unc (2013) 1,932 +4
Helen Taft Unc (2013) 1,826 +4
Ellen Wilson Unc (2013) 1,790 +6
Edith Wilson Unc (2013) 1,792 +4
 

savvydon

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Current sales as of Dec. 28
Ida McKinley Unc (2013) 1,931 +2
Edith Roosevelt Unc (2013) 1,932 +4
Helen Taft Unc (2013) 1,826 +4
Ellen Wilson Unc (2013) 1,790 +6
Edith Wilson Unc (2013) 1,792 +4
Pretty nonexistent sales... guess we will know by the end of the week if the mint is going to be selling 2013 spouses in 2015.
 

HistoryStudent

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Get what you can when you can this year while gold is still cheap: and silver is cheaper than dirt.

Watch what happens with the current selling of the 2013s; and if they extend them on into the 2015 ones that come out.

No matter what the US Mint has ONLY seen under 3,000 MS and under 4,000 PF for very few
of all the coins they "ever MINTED" since the last 1700s. A few platinum at thousands $ dollars per coin,
however can be mentioned.

17 spouses in UNDER both - are in those numbers right now. 17 MS & 17 PF - amazing.

They shoulda woulda coulda had a great front OBS like the coins of the time period; and the back REV shoulda woulda coulda
been the president serving and his wife - like a few had: dancing Tyler 2, Secretary wife to Pierce, horse riding with Grant, quickly come to mind -
and they shoulda coulda woulda sold a lot more.

A short sales period of a month or two with orders shoulda woulda coulda sold them a lot better. And they shoulda woulda coulda
dumped the flower designers, too.
 
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Chester-Copperpot

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Yes, they have EGG all over their face. This week the spouses all 18 of them sold a NEGATIVE 14 coins.

Hang in their I just grabbed doubles and triples of Teddy and Wilson. Presidents # 5 and # 6.

If you do the math you'll find that in 1915 the PAN-AM $50 coins sold some 1,225 total when the population was 100 million;
now it's 320 million and these coins are selling worse or lower. Back in 1915 a months salary was $100 smackers.
Now a month's salary is about what 4 or 5 of these coins sell for - about the same as back then for the 2.5 ounce $50.00.

Funny how you have to know the ratios to make a buck.

Note that: this guy writes about GOLD in deflation with all the default - just like Jastram did.

http://www.gold-eagle.com/authors/dan-ascani?page=1
Your comparing apples to oranges. There's lots of low mintage commemoratives that sell for a small percentage over spot. With the spouses you have a very small collectors base and the fact that they mint a regular and proof of each spouse, dilutes it even more. Back in 1915 they weren't minting coins on the scale they are today. Just my opinion but these are never going to make you rich, or command huge premiums. Anytime I've seen spouses at a show, dealers are charging a smidge over spot.
 

tradeshack

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The mint is now displaying its 'Last Chance' products as 'SOLD OUT'. They should instead use a 'RECYCLED' notifyer and let everyone know how green they are. This is what I would do if I were his money czar.
 

hernancortes

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Well, here it is 2015 and the mint is still selling 2013 spouses. hmmmm....
Like tradeshack intimated if the mint doesn't do a last chance promotion on the 13's they are probably doomed to the current trickle of 2-5 coins a week or whatever until they are taken off sale suddenly and without warning. That equals new keys. I'm pretty sure the mint never intended to sell 13's 14's and 15's all at the same time so I guess we just wait for the announcement of the first '15 to debut (Spring or summer?).

Other possibilities?

1. The mint just axes them suddenly whenever they choose well prior to the '15s arrival.

2. The mint struck a nice round 2000 coins of the uncs and the Mckinley and E Roosevelt aren't far from that now...
 
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I was hoping they would take them off the shelves today but of course it never goes like I hope it will. by the way does anyone know why the Eliza Johnson proof jumped so high in price at apmex ? they did it about a month ago and I don't know why? Ive been putting a dent in all the back dates recently and will continue to do so. A lot of the time I get them for the same price as the 1/2oz gold eagles. these have better upside potential. althought I did pick up a few 2014 1/2oz gold eagles back when HC brought it up and im glad I did. all the big boys took them off the shelves and I cant find them for a reasonable price anywhere.
 

hernancortes

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I was hoping they would take them off the shelves today but of course it never goes like I hope it will. by the way does anyone know why the Eliza Johnson proof jumped so high in price at apmex ? they did it about a month ago and I don't know why? Ive been putting a dent in all the back dates recently and will continue to do so. A lot of the time I get them for the same price as the 1/2oz gold eagles. these have better upside potential. althought I did pick up a few 2014 1/2oz gold eagles back when HC brought it up and im glad I did. all the big boys took them off the shelves and I cant find them for a reasonable price anywhere.
Yes the 2014 $25 gold eagles.. tis a pity that gold spot had to drop like it did last Sept. causing the AP's to order a bunch more, driving the mintage up. At the time I said to keep an eye on them, they were on track to become a really low mintage in a series of very high priced coins. Was all the more puzzling that no-one in internet land had noticed.
Wasn't to be, but at least you got liquid US gold coins for--- hopefully--- spot-based pricing.
 

HistoryStudent

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There are very few coins minted from US Mint that sold less than 3,068 coins in MINT STATE over the last 220 years.
There are also very few coins minted from the US Mint that sold less than 4,001 coins in PROOF over the last 220 years.

See Eric Jordan's first book "Modern Commemorative Coins" - for the pre-2009 listing(s).
 

hernancortes

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Anything's possible macrohedge!
At the bottom of the mint's webpage it has mini banner saying "Shop our remaining 2014 First Spouse Gold Coins -- Limited Quantities are available". Well last night we found out just how limited the quantities are; someone on the mintnewsblog comment section figured out that by loading your cart with the max. number of coins (99), as long as fewer than 99 of them are left in stock, the mint will show you exactly how many are left! So the Eleanor Roosevelt proof was showing like 87 left, and when this guy shared this information, they started to disappear of course. A few hours later sure enough PR Eleanor is showing 'out of stock'. So if you add the 87 coins or so to last Sundays mint report you get under 2400 coins. So the mint probably struck all the '14 PR's at 2300-2400 coins each. Now that is obviously the lowest number of PR's they've ever struck by a wide margin, but what does that number portend for the '14 uncs? Well if you review the historical mintage charts of spouses you'll see of course the PR's sell better than the uncs, in years past like '08-'10 it was typically a ratio of 1.5 to 1.75 Pr to uncs, but more recently from '11 to date the ratio has dropped from 1.34 to 1.7 PR per unc in '11 to 1.25 to 1.29 PR to unc in '12. Again, the LOWEST PR to unc sales we've seen was 1.25. To get these numbers I just divided the # of Pr's sold by the # of uncs sold.
So knowing the above you can speculate on the '14's with some degree of certainty, we do know that '14's were short-struck relative to the '13s but just know that the mint may end sales of the '13's at any moment. LOL
 

savvydon

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Anything's possible macrohedge!
At the bottom of the mint's webpage it has mini banner saying "Shop our remaining 2014 First Spouse Gold Coins -- Limited Quantities are available". Well last night we found out just how limited the quantities are; someone on the mintnewsblog comment section figured out that by loading your cart with the max. number of coins (99), as long as fewer than 99 of them are left in stock, the mint will show you exactly how many are left! So the Eleanor Roosevelt proof was showing like 87 left, and when this guy shared this information, they started to disappear of course. A few hours later sure enough PR Eleanor is showing 'out of stock'. So if you add the 87 coins or so to last Sundays mint report you get under 2400 coins. So the mint probably struck all the '14 PR's at 2300-2400 coins each. Now that is obviously the lowest number of PR's they've ever struck by a wide margin, but what does that number portend for the '14 uncs? Well if you review the historical mintage charts of spouses you'll see of course the PR's sell better than the uncs, in years past like '08-'10 it was typically a ratio of 1.5 to 1.75 Pr to uncs, but more recently from '11 to date the ratio has dropped from 1.34 to 1.7 PR per unc in '11 to 1.25 to 1.29 PR to unc in '12. Again, the LOWEST PR to unc sales we've seen was 1.25. To get these numbers I just divided the # of Pr's sold by the # of uncs sold.
So knowing the above you can speculate on the '14's with some degree of certainty, we do know that '14's were short-struck relative to the '13s but just know that the mint may end sales of the '13's at any moment. LOL
Great info, and highly appreciated. I'm hoping this will start a 'domino effect' and set off purchasing, black outs, and renewed interest in the series. One thing is for certain and that is that no one knows how this will turn out, but as we turn the corner and head into the modern spouse era things may start to get interesting.
 

macrohedge

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Hernan, thank you for explain my alert message in details. In you opinion, when will the Mint end the sale of 2013 coins? Next week? Next month or when they issue the 1st 2015 sposue?


Forgot to add the '13 Edith Roosevelt PR is showing 63 left in stock. Last mint report has them at 2781.
 

hernancortes

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The 2015 coins will probably debut in spring or summer. My opinion is the mint won't wait 'til the '15s arrive to take the '13s off sale. In any case I don't see them selling the 13's 14's and 15's concurrently.
 
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Solo

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Forgot to add the '13 Edith Roosevelt PR is showing 63 left in stock. Last mint report has them at 2781.
Sold out as of a few minutes ago. Funny thing is I logged into the website on 1/1 and 1/2 hoping to see the '13 spouse coins had made a quiet exit, but it never occurred to me to try the Apmex inventory trick (you've been able to see how many remaining there for a couple years or more now by loading your cart with the max) to see if any had defined quantities. At the price folks paid for the Edith proof coins it's hard to envision a scenario where they lose money (aside for $400 gold) so congrats to the diligent MNB readers who loaded up. I haven't paid nearly as much attention to the hobby/obsession this past year due to being broke and busy with other things, but I'm hoping to find certain '13/'14 spouse coins for melt based pricing at the FUN show this week. Wish me luck :cool:!

Oh, and thanks for keeping the numi fires burning here on GIM hernan, Savvy, et al.. :)
 

hernancortes

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Of course, my friend. When you came back here you knew you'd still find me here in the trenches, slogging it out.:D

I must correct you though... it is Eleanor that's out of stock, not Edith... she's still showing 61 left as of now.

Current sales as of Jan. 4
Ida McKinley Unc (2013) 1,943 +12
Edith Roosevelt Unc (2013) 1,947 +15
Helen Taft Unc (2013) 1,845 +19
Ellen Wilson Unc (2013) 1,826 +36
Edith Wilson Unc (2013) 1,821 +29

Eleanor Roosevelt PR (2014) 2,381 (out of stock)
 

hernancortes

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Current sales as of Jan. 11
Ida McKinley Unc (2013) 1,979 +36
Edith Roosevelt Unc (2013) 2,019 +72
Helen Taft Unc (2013) 1,879 +34
Ellen Wilson Unc (2013) 1,862 +36
Edith Wilson Unc (2013) 1,863 +42
 

savvydon

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Current sales as of Jan. 11
Ida McKinley Unc (2013) 1,979 +36
Edith Roosevelt Unc (2013) 2,019 +72
Helen Taft Unc (2013) 1,879 +34
Ellen Wilson Unc (2013) 1,862 +36
Edith Wilson Unc (2013) 1,863 +42
Some rather brisk sales. I wonder if this will persist past tomorrow, when the prices will go up one notch on the grid due to increases in the spot price of gold.
 
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Re: Superb Web page, Keep up the excellent work.

MCM has a few Eleanor Roosevelt proofs on ebay for $779 with E bucks. i cant find it for cheaper anywhere else.
 

savvydon

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The horse race is getting closer as we approach the finish line. Another price increase at the mint will further spice things up.
 
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Deweydog

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I really hope you guys are rewarded someday. I still adhere to what I thought at the beginning of this program.

"If it smells like a turd, squishes like a freshly stepped on turd" Well, you guys that been around awhile know the rest.

$3000 gold will cure a lot of mistakes though....
 

savvydon

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I really hope you guys are rewarded someday. I still adhere to what I thought at the beginning of this program.

"If it smells like a turd, squishes like a freshly stepped on turd" Well, you guys that been around awhile know the rest.

$3000 gold will cure a lot of mistakes though....
A lot of today's prized fossils were once fresh turds. You lay down your money and play your hand. We shall c...
 

savvydon

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A lot of today's prized fossils were once fresh turds. You lay down your money and play your hand. We shall c...
Apparently the wait was not so very long. Now that the Eleanor Roosevelt proof is no longer available there seems to be quite the aftermarket push for available examples.
 

hernancortes

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About 87 Harding PR's remaining with sales as of 3/1 at 2253. That would put it below Eleanor Roosevelt PR which now appears to be stuck at 2377.
Meanwhile Eleanor unc is selling strongly (relatively) sitting at 1787 as of 3/1 with at least 99 remaining --- I guess speculators are interested in finding out exactly how many are left.
 

savvydon

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About 87 Harding PR's remaining with sales as of 3/1 at 2253. That would put it below Eleanor Roosevelt PR which now appears to be stuck at 2377.
Meanwhile Eleanor unc is selling strongly (relatively) sitting at 1787 as of 3/1 with at least 99 remaining --- I guess speculators are interested in finding out exactly how many are left.
It will be interesting to see whether or not Harding proofs go down the same rabbit hole as the Eleanor Roosevelt proof.