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First Spouse Coins

tradeshack

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7/18/2015 - Truman proof coins are available from the mint today.

7/20/2015 - Kennedy Uncirculated Coin back in stock.

7/22/2015 - Kennedy Proof Coin back in stock.
 
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hernancortes

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I was hoping they would take them off the shelves today but of course it never goes like I hope it will. by the way does anyone know why the Eliza Johnson proof jumped so high in price at apmex ? they did it about a month ago and I don't know why? Ive been putting a dent in all the back dates recently and will continue to do so. A lot of the time I get them for the same price as the 1/2oz gold eagles. these have better upside potential. althought I did pick up a few 2014 1/2oz gold eagles back when HC brought it up and im glad I did. all the big boys took them off the shelves and I cant find them for a reasonable price anywhere.
Good news for you... the 2014 $25 AGE's are still off the shelves and I can personally verify they cannot be found ANYWHERE, unless apmex is your pleasure where they want about $950 per. The true mintage was just released, 35,000, which makes it number 3 on the mintage chart among bullion $25 pieces. You're in the money and I actually fell backward into a good call for once. lol
 

HistoryStudent

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Lots of US Mint coins will be extremely low in sales this year and next.

NOW remember these would ALL be US Minted coins only.

Anything made by the US Mint with some dollar based value on it - whether or not it was meant for circulation - over the last 200
years the market HAS sooner or later (way quicker now because of the internet) does wake up and embrace the coin as a winner if it has possible popularity - however, many such coins were blatantly overlooked by the (you should KNOW that absolutely nobody was thinking outside the herd "THUNK!") collectors when they first came out. The semi-professional (?) collectors totally missed the collecting by US MINT MARK and several other things.

Like the 19th century US Trade Dollars or $50 Pan Am 1915s (think ATB pucks now) and all the pre-1983 silver commemorative halves.

So....

the best coins in gold and platinum would be under 5,000 in mintage - almost anything come two years from now...
think like the recent Eliza Johnson spouse.... her mintage is around 2,905

Jackie Kennedy UNC flopped some -758 coins and they were sent back to the US Mint this week - they probably weren't 70s...LOL

By-the-way: BTW the spouses have some 54 gold coins UNDER that 5,000 mintage right now immediately today...
Study the popular presidents and GUESS which ones will pull on their respective spouse come 2017.

Guess one both Roosevelts FDR #2 president (#5 president TR Roosevelt is not too shabby either) and guess two both #8 president Eisenhowers.... Not to mention all four of the Wilson's #6 president.

the best coins in silver would be under 18,000 in mintage - almost anything come two years from now....

BTW: The ATB pucks have some 8 "P" pucks under 18,000 mintage right today also...
 
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HistoryStudent

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ON US MINT site:
http://catalog.usmint.gov/coin-programs/first-spouse-coins/?_ga=1.75266706.1498107167.1426021538

BOTH Eisenhower (overall Presidential rating # 8) - spouse coins just went LIMITED...

MS around 1,500
PR around 2,200

They will give both FDRs (overall Presidential rating #2) - spouse coins a run for their low mintage...

They will if the mintage holds and you know the US Mint lately... right?

Just in time for tomorrows EISENHOWER COIN & CHRONICLES set at 17,000 mintage....
 

HistoryStudent

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Maybe not. I put 100 proof and 100 mint state Eisenhower's in my US Mint shopping cart. I think they're "Limited" on the basis that there's a limit of 10,000 each.
When you kick up EISENHOWER on the US Mint site right now you see that both the spouses and the 41 minute from now
Coin & Chronicles Set are all 3 limited. You are probably right - it's a sales push, gimmick, and perhaps interest grabber.

They never marketed the spouses - and by hook or crook - they will be the lowest series in US Mint history as far as total sales per unit.

Their rules and law and custom is not to ever produce any precious metal coin that sells less than 10,000 units.
Only perhaps? 8 spouses made that MINT demanded thresh hold of 10K. The rest, except for perhaps Kennedy PF, fell way below.

So buy any PM coin below 6,000 units and you should have both the intrinsic value and the low total availability to protect your collection.
Especially when you can not find or buy them. Kinda like the really rare coins of the past according to the PCGS/NGC populations.
All coins worth over $1,000 should be slabbed. IMVHO.
 

HistoryStudent

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HC was right because the US Mint put both PROOF Harding & Coolidge as "sold out."

HC said stated, figured, surmised, and actually knew the rest of the 2014s spouses (PF) would probably be lower than

FDR Roosevelt's PFs @ 2,377!

Imagine that?

Harding PF is around 2,372 = BINGO!

Coolidge PF is around 2,316 = BINGO!

In Jordan's book these would COME in @ numbers 22, 23, 24, for the "lowest (range) proof coins ever made by the US Mint."

All are NOT audited figures (read around + or -).

Better than buying a house that needs repairs (that's a sad hit), right HC?

Guess the next president PF coin, okay?
 

hernancortes

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HC was right because the US Mint put both PROOF Harding & Coolidge as "sold out."

HC said stated, figured, surmised, and actually knew the rest of the 2014s spouses (PF) would probably be lower than

FDR Roosevelt's PFs @ 2,377!

Imagine that?

Harding PF is around 2,372 = BINGO!

Coolidge PF is around 2,316 = BINGO!

In Jordan's book these would COME in @ numbers 22, 23, 24, for the "lowest (range) proof coins ever made by the US Mint."

All are NOT audited figures (read around + or -).

Better than buying a house that needs repairs (that's a sad hit), right HC?

Guess the next president PF coin, okay?
Thanks.
I must've surmised correctly, since the mint hasn't altered the 2372 and 2316 numbers for 3 weeks now. Eleanor PR is dethroned. Will Eleanor unc be dethroned too? Most likely, but not by much.
 

HistoryStudent

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[video]https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?p=light+my+fire+jose+feliciano&ei=UTF-8&hspart=mozilla&hsimp=yhs-003[/video]

Thanks.
I must've surmised correctly, since the mint hasn't altered the 2372 and 2316 numbers for 3 weeks now. Eleanor PR is dethroned. Will Eleanor unc be dethroned too? Most likely, but not by much.
UNC FDR Roosevelt's Eleanor has three rivals in the running all 2014s. She is supposed to be on the NEW $10 bill perhaps replacing Hamilton - the King's illegitimate banking son from his Caribbean experiences also perhaps - Roosevelt was #2 FDR his past relative TR Roosevelt was #5 - and on Mt. Rushmore.

I do wonder what will happen when these series of MS & PF go dark for the spouses.

Perhaps the rankings will make some mark when the blatant opportunity MISSED hits the mindsets and the collector press. Same thing happened 100 years ago. Like in the $20 Saints PROOFS & $50 Pan Ams. Not to mention the $10 proofs of the same era. For 80 years they were ALL the collecting rage. Now they are ALL super priced.

Jordan's or another author's new book will light the fire...
 

HistoryStudent

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I studied all the spouses last night - one at a time already issued.

Seems to me the US Mint really BLEW it on design - with the children, flowers, sewing, painting, and garden mentality.

They had the FIRST SPOUSE series to design - and each spouse stayed in or designed the WHITE HOUSE which was the FIRST SPOUSE's
main occupation. Pillow talk. Some ran the White House and the government like the second Wilson wife - hand on the cane - imagine that?

The White Houses should have ALL stayed on the REVERSE - with the spouse on the OBS. They would have had a common theme that
way. So simple. Period.

Each COIN (PF/MS) would have changed a tad via research for the PICTURE of the White House at the end of their (spouses) TERMS with trees, roads, and additions - but they would have ALL been BEAUTIFUL - and had a JOINT CONVICTION for sales.

So sad we have the same TYPE of low mentality there that we had right before Saint Gaudens stepped in and made things right.


Now we are seeing coins with UNDER 2,000 mintages sticking - last time this happened was 1838! 177 years ago...
 
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HistoryStudent

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The MINT just came out with latest figures. With the stock market crash(ing) they sold 550 HOOVER proofs. NEW.

Guess the rhyme thing and a strong marketer wants his share...

They sold a LOT of spouses this last week...

They blew almost every spouse PAST FDR's Eleanor low, low, low, 150 year records...

IN BOTH Mint State & Proof...

Reverse PPT

PS day after tomorrow LBJ's spouse comes out I believe... 8-27-15
 
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hernancortes

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The MINT just came out with latest figures. With the stock market crash(ing) they sold 550 HOOVER proofs. NEW.
That simply has to be an error. The XLS spreadsheet was showing 2201 as the cumulative number for Hoover Proofs. There's no reason for that many orders and there's no reason why the mint would even have that many in inventory.
 

b_cahill

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That simply has to be an error. The XLS spreadsheet was showing 2201 as the cumulative number for Hoover Proofs. There's no reason for that many orders and there's no reason why the mint would even have that many in inventory.
I will be very surprised if there is not somewhere in the neighborhood of -500 on next week's report.
 

HistoryStudent

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I will be very surprised if there is not somewhere in the neighborhood of -500 on next week's report.
Sad that the federal government can not be trusted with their numbers, it truly is.

It started years and years ago through THE many agencies and bureaus they control.

I guess the bottom line prevails in coins...


That is:

Always know that really true and rare coins are lack of available coin(s) and not some tag, label, or story you may hear.

I truly wonder if after this huge gold series of expensive coins goes dark in over a year - what coins will be available and at what price.

It also depends upon the gold price, too.
 

HistoryStudent

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Now if they could JUST stop all the sales of 2013 SPOUSE coins right now near 2016.

HC 100% right again.

Not only were Hoover's down PF at 2204

Coolidge PF at 2314

Harding PF at 2371

FDR unchanged at 2377.

LBJ got 1st week action at 933 unc & 1287 PF
best action since FDR forgetting JFK. LBJ Back to Taft's first week numbers.
 
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b_cahill

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Now if they could JUST stop all the sales of 2013 SPOUSE coins right now near 2016.
It appears as if you got your wish, HS!

As of last week's sales report:

Helen Taft Proof - 2,593
Helen Taft Uncirculated - 1,979
Ellen Wilson Proof 1st - 2,508
Ellen Wilson Uncirculated 1st - 1,966
Edith Wilson Proof 2nd - 2,463
Edith Wilson Uncirculated 2nd - 1,964
 

HistoryStudent

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It appears as if you got your wish, HS!

As of last week's sales report:

Helen Taft Proof - 2,593
Helen Taft Uncirculated - 1,979
Ellen Wilson Proof 1st - 2,508
Ellen Wilson Uncirculated 1st - 1,966
Edith Wilson Proof 2nd - 2,463
Edith Wilson Uncirculated 2nd - 1,964
WOW!

THANKS old friend...

I usually wait for the Tuesday release of figures from the US Mint.

You, John Candy aka b_cahill, and HC have extremely good insight and probable skills via the MINT SITE.

If correct and confirmed later by sales -that makes 4 MS spouse under 2,000 mintage and 4 PF spouses under 2,600. Namely: the Taft coins , the 2 Wilson coins, and the FDR's spouse coins.

These are ABSOLUTELY amazing LOW numbers because of non-popularity, expense, and the economy.

By checking Eric Jordan's first book "Modern Commemorative Coins," one can see how 'really low' they are compared to all the years of the US MINT's existence since 1793. Puts them in the lowest 13 to 22 coins issued in 222 years.


Like John Maben said, "they are under-appreciated, and they are not quite commemoratives, and aren't struck as bullion either."
 
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savvydon

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It appears as if you got your wish, HS!

As of last week's sales report:

Helen Taft Proof - 2,593
Helen Taft Uncirculated - 1,979
Ellen Wilson Proof 1st - 2,508
Ellen Wilson Uncirculated 1st - 1,966
Edith Wilson Proof 2nd - 2,463
Edith Wilson Uncirculated 2nd - 1,964
Wow... it's about time they thinned the herd.
 

b_cahill

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Apmex currently has a couple of each of the MS 2013 spouses for sale with OGP for a small premium over mint price (Taft is under). It may take a while, but I think with these extremely low mintages that these will appreciate nicely in the years to come.

Edith Wilson ($755) - http://www.apmex.com/product/78933/2013-w-1-2-oz-gold-edith-wilson-bu-w-box-coa
Ellen Wilson ($780) - http://www.apmex.com/product/78931/2013-w-1-2-oz-gold-ellen-wilson-bu-w-box-coa
Helen Taft ($730) - http://www.apmex.com/product/78929/2013-w-1-2-oz-gold-helen-taft-bu-w-box-coa
Edith Roosevelt ($775) - http://www.apmex.com/product/78927/2013-w-1-2-oz-gold-edith-roosevelt-bu-w-box-coa
Ida McKinley ($785) - http://www.apmex.com/product/78925/2013-w-1-2-oz-gold-ida-mckinley-bu-w-box-coa

I am tempted, but I just can't afford to.
 

hernancortes

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as of 9/27/15

2013 GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ - TAFT 2,598
2013 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ - TAFT 1,993
2013 FS GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ - WILSON 1ST 2,511
2013 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ - WILSON 1ST 1,980
2013 FS GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ - WILSON 2ND 2,464
2013 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ - WILSON 2ND 1,974
 

b_cahill

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If you want to use a credit card to buy an MS Jackie Kennedy spouse coin, you can get one from A***x that was probably deemed unsuitable for grading for $993:

http://www.apmex.com/product/91560/2015-w-1-2-oz-gold-jacqueline-kennedy-bu-w-box-coa

If you want to get one directly from the mint that has not been passed over for grading, you can get one for $750 (with shipping):

http://catalog.usmint.gov/jacquelin...coin-JQ6.html?cgid=first-spouse-coins#start=1

A***x has 3 available. The mint has over 100 available. Which would you choose?
 

savvydon

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Looking at the Mint website Harding and Coolidge proofs are sold out. Other than the 2015s all we are now left with is Coolidge, Harding , and Hoover in MS and Hoover in proof.
 

HistoryStudent

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Tomorrow will be the day they release the sales for the spouses.

They have really been a series of POOR POOR POOR sellers for a US Mint that wants to sell 10,000 units per coin
per Mint State per PROOF. Even Jackie only made it since 2007 and since Jefferson.

These will go down in as a FLOP. However, sometimes flops are SETTING the bar at a NEW standard...

These will all go down as a BLATANT MISSED OPPORTUNITY. In a few FLOP years...
 
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HistoryStudent

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Tradeshack: I was waiting to be sure - sometimes the mint has number problems.

HC: IT's amazing that you can see things before they happen. Excellent - plus.

b_cahill: Good calls.

We now have 26 out of the 38 issued on the spouses that are on after-market only.

PERHAPS - Even Eric Jordan probably was especially surprised statistically on the LAST five years with ALL sales under that "magic" 5,000 number.

Because of many complex reasons these spouses had really low sales since the start - almost. I feel that the ones that picked-up a total set in either or both will be rewarded in the future.

The strange part is that even if you are late to the game several things are still available through many different re-sellers.

The herd does not get it until everything goes dark.

PLEASE See chapter ONE of Eric Jordan's first book. Modern Commemorative Coins. About past collectors in the early 1900s and the herd mentality.

Remember these coins are neither COMMEMORATIVES nor BULLION coins. They were struck as a separate 82 coin opportunity.

And are STUCK (not struck) in a bullion category because there is not another place to put them in via RED BOOK and the 3rd party SLABBERS. They should have a separate category called "MINT GOLD SERIES FLOPS."
 

HistoryStudent

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The herd hated these coins since they went unpopular in 2007 and the price of gold made it profitable to melt over 10,000 plus of them.

The herd also was not too-much-in-love with the "P" pucks versus the bullion ones because of the premiums.

As much as things change - the fundamentals will rule out in the end. Gold and silver are the only real money and the crown jewels
are gold under 6,000 mintage - and silver under 20,000 mintage in any size series shape or value as long as the govy put a dollar
type amount (read quarter dollar too) on the coin.

The herd finds the biggest coins ever made distasteful because the dollar amount appears dishonest. And like in the past, say, 1800s onward,
especially from the Mississippi Eastward; they prefer convenient lightweight paper money to the real thing.

Now in the West and Mid-West the folks there had more common sense and knew that coined freedom was the real thing; because they had
studied history and knew every govy from the Greeks and then the Romans onward had blown the peoples' trust and although they tried to be honest to begin with but that soon ended.

Because they needed money for their social and political promises (problems) they all had to go crooked with inflation via debasing the precious metal content - and then graduating to paper money printed as much as they needed.

The old adage: with the guy rubbing his hands together - says you are in good hands with me - all the while knowing he was conning you.
 

tradeshack

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2015 FS GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ - KENNEDY
Cumulative Numismatic Sales Figures for December 13, 2015: 11,058


The mint only has 29 of these left in stock. Only a few business days remaining and she's leaving!



0_550_554.jpg
 

hernancortes

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All spouses in the catalog listed as "limited". The mint isn't saying so but it's possible they could take the 2014's off sale Dec. 31st.
 
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I will buy a few hoover proof and harding ms coins before year end, it appears that 2014 spouse coins can be removed at any moment.
 

HistoryStudent

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So many of these MS are below 3,900 mintage - and PF are below 5,000 mintage to date.

This set goes dark early 2017.

This was the biggest mistake SERIES and INDIVIDUAL COINS in 220 years from the mint.

Like the PAN-AM 1915 $50 set at $100 bucks each that sold less than 1,000 units each.

Get them slabbed...
 

savvydon

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Basically he is selling at straight bullion prices. Works out to 2.5% over spot, which is cheaper than you can find a 1/2 oz AGE for. I saw that on CCE, too - would have thought long and hard about it if I had some spare cash sitting around... :2 thumbs up: