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Five sailors injured, 10 missing after ANOTHER U.S. Navy destroyer collides with a merchant ship

the_shootist

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#42
I'm no expert nor pretend to be, but from the close-up photos of the damage to the USS John S. McCain it looks to have been dead in the water when it was hit. Was it anchored?
No, you're makin' my point! :don't    know2:
 

Buck

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#43
Point of contact was from stern to stem so the McCain was less than 90' at point of contact

Contact would have been made port side with the "nose" of the tanker contacting and "sliding" into the McCain meeting internal bulkhead resistance while creating a hole in the hull giving the entire McCain a sideways push to starboard with the water pushing back until the McCain cut the angle enough to slide free

Musta been a wild ride

Some One Needs To Hang if Intentional

follow the money and if true, We Did The Right Thing! :2 thumbs up:

Now the country needs to finish this
hang on cause it could get bumpy soon

or not IDK
 
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Buck

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#44
Would it stand to reason that any abilities that a hacker would have today would have come from the Hillary Campaign? The IT guys from Debbie WS?
 

TAEZZAR

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#45
Don't know if anyone has read this but it keeps coming up when I open a new tab. It is a good read, they are figuring the steerage got hacked in at least 4 ships.

link: http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...ollision/ar-AAqwmBD?li=AA4Zpp&ocid=spartanntp
Also to be considered is that maybe the tanker is hacked the same way. Nothing but screws turning in the water and no way to steer?
All ships can "reverse screws" to stop &/or back up. Also, if the ship has twin, or more screws, it can steer with the screws !
 

Buck

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#46
But to lose "sight" of other waterbound traffic, especially such a large vessel, this vessel should have been sighted and plotted out from the horizon inbound and should have never fallen off the radar and to turn? in front of it, to lay in wait nearly perpendicular so as to be hit broadside? makes no sense at all unless completely blind? powerless? which leaves only the crew left to witness the collision but if there were time, those below would have come up
 

the_shootist

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#47
But to lose "sight" of other waterbound traffic, especially such a large vessel, this vessel should have been sighted and plotted out from the horizon inbound and should have never fallen off the radar and to turn? in front of it, to lay in wait nearly perpendicular so as to be hit broadside? makes no sense at all unless completely blind? powerless? which leaves only the crew left to witness the collision but if there were time, those below would have come up
Yep!!! Hence my theory that this is being done deliberately. I wouldn't be surprised if there's another incident like this! I wonder if aircraft carriers have the same type of steering systems as the cans!
 

Buck

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#48
I would hope they'd have more eyes available from the surface, above and below the water line and from even over the horizon
I would hate to think a carrier could be affected by a collision with another surface vessel
 

the_shootist

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#49
I would hope they'd have more eyes available from the surface, above and below the water line and from even over the horizon
I would hate to think a carrier could be affected by a collision with another surface vessel
This caught my attention with the first incident. Avoiding collisions of this nature, day or night, should be foolproof for the US Navy. It simply doesn't add up that it can happen twice in a month!

Our boys, our commanders and our navy can't be that stupid!
 

Mujahideen

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#50
This caught my attention with the first incident. Avoiding collisions of this nature, day or night, should be foolproof for the US Navy. It simply doesn't add up that it can happen twice in a month!

Our boys, our commanders and our navy can't be that stupid!
My theory is that a few people were literally asleep at the wheel. They assign tasks with no regards to your sleep.
 

917601

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#52
Something sounds fishy with two military ships getting hit by commercial cargo ships only weeks apart. Incompetence? Maybe but that explanation would be too neat.

Question is what is the real truth?
....try four ships, and does one really think the Navy would admit Russia and China have the tech to shut down our ships with advanced ECM weapons?
 

oldgaranddad

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#53
....try four ships, and does one really think the Navy would admit Russia and China have the tech to shut down our ships with advanced ECM weapons?
I was thinking that but I think it was more to do with GPS spoofing with the ships thinking they were somewhere else. Just like those naval riverine boats that seemed to get lost in the Persian Gulf near Farsi Island and were stopped, boarded and taken prisoner by conveniently waiting Iranian Islamic Revolutionary Guard ships when their GPS said one thing and they were really somewhere else.
 

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#54
CNN Reports USS John S. McCain Lost Steering Prior to Collision

August 22, 2017 by Mike Schuler


Tugboats from Singapore assist the guided-missile destroyer USS John S. McCain (DDG 56) at it steers towards Changi Naval Base, Republic of Singapore following a collision with the merchant tanker, August 21, 2017. U.S. Navy Photo

The guided-missile destroyer USS John S. McCain may have suffered a loss of steering prior to its collision with a merchant tanker near Singapore on Monday, a U.S. Navy official told CNN.

The USS John S. McCain was transiting to Singapore for a routine port visit when it collided with the Liberian-flagged tanker Alnic MC at approximately 6:24 a.m. Japan Standard Time on Aug. 21 while east of the Straits of Malacca. The Navy said Tuesday that some of the remains of the ten missing sailors have been located inside the ship as an international search continues near the site of the collision.

Citing a U.S. Navy official, CNN reported late Monday that John S. McCain had suffered a “steering failure” prior to the collision. Earlier in the day CNN reported that “there were indications the destroyer experienced a loss of steering right before the collision, but steering had been regained afterward,” according to a second Navy source.

After the collision, McCain arrived at Singapore’s Changi Naval Base Monday afternoon under its own power.

The collision involving the McCain is the fourth major accident in the U.S. Pacific fleet this year. In June, seven sailors were killed when the USS Fitzgerald collided with a containership off the coast of Japan.

In wake of the accidents, the U.S. Navy on Monday called for a fleet-wide probe and a rare “operational pause” of its fleets around the world, which will allow fleet commanders to assess and review with their commands the fundamental practice to safe and effective operations.

Chief of Naval Operations Adm. John M. Richardson said the pause is likely to “one to two days”.

“This is obviously an extremely serious incident and is the second such incident in a very short period of time, within inside of three months and very similar as well and is the last of a series of incidents in the Pacific fleet in particular,” Admiral Richardson said.

On Tuesday, Admiral Richardson downplayed reports that the ship may have been hacked.

“2 clarify Re: possibility of cyber intrusion or sabotage, no indications right now…but review will consider all possibilities,” Admiral Richardson wrote on Twitter.

In addition to the operational pause, Richardson said he tasked Navy Adm. Phil Davidson, the commander of U.S. Fleet Forces Command, to take charge of a comprehensive review to find the contributing factors and root causes of the incidents. The review will include representation from throughout the Navy, as well as from other services and the private sector.

The Navy said the review will look at the processes the Navy uses to train and certify the forward deployed forces in Japan. Another area for examination, as Richardson outlined, is how the Navy trains and certifies its surface warfare community, including tactical and navigational proficiency.

“My hope is that we will learn, continue to improve in the short term, validating that we are sound on the fundamentals and if not then we’ll take action to correct that, and then look at broader, more systemic issues that we may find through this comprehensive review,” Richardson said.

The comprehensive review is in addition to the investigations into the Fitzgerald and McCain, he added.

Filed Under: Maritime News Tagged With: uss John McCain

http://gcaptain.com/cnn-reports-uss-john-s-mccain-suffered-steering-failure-prior-to-collision/
 

searcher

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#55
Collision of US Guided missile destroyer JOHN MCCAIN and TANKER ALNIC MC in Singapore waters
VesselFinder


Published on Aug 21, 2017
10 unaccounted for, five injured. No oil pollution reported; Traffic in Singapore Strait is unaffected

At about 05:30 hrs local time on 21 August 2017 (21:30 GMT on 20 August 2017), Maritime and Port Authority of Singapore (MPA) was notified of a collision between a US guided-missile destroyer USS John McCain with Liberian-flagged merchant vessel Alnic MC in Singapore territorial waters in the Singapore Strait.

Full story of the collision:
https://www.vesselfinder.com/news/999...

ALNIC MC ship details:
https://www.vesselfinder.com/vessels/...

Current position of ALNIC MC:
https://www.vesselfinder.com/?imo=939...

Place of the collision:
https://www.vesselfinder.com/?lat=1.4...

Video copyrighted by: https://www.vesselfinder.com/ and can not be distributed without an appropriate accreditation with a backlink to www.vesselfinder.com

For AIS position data inquiries:
https://www.vesselfinder.com/historic...

Connect with VesselFinder
Web: https://www.vesselfinder.com/
Email: info@vesselfinder.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/VesselFinder
Twitter: https://twitter.com/VesselFinder


More here:
USS John S. McCain Collision: AIS Animation Shows Tanker’s Track During Collision
http://gcaptain.com/uss-john-s-mccain-collision-ais-animation-shows-tankers-track-during-collision/
 

searcher

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#56
USS John S. McCain Arrives at Changi Naval Base
U.S. Navy


Published on Aug 21, 2017
CHANGI NAVAL BASE, Republic of Singapore (Aug. 21, 2017) The guided-missile destroyer USS John S. McCain (DDG 56) arrives pier side at Changi Naval Base, Republic of Singapore following a collision with the merchant vessel Alnic MC while underway east of the Straits of Malacca and Singapore. Significant damage to the hull resulted in flooding to nearby compartments, including crew berthing, machinery, and communications rooms. Damage control efforts by the crew halted further flooding. The incident will be investigated. (U.S. Navy video/Released) 170721-N-IX266-002
 

mayhem

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#57
Just a WAG, they were hacked.

There's no damn way that they were just "run into."

China playing games, we are in a very bad situation. Democruds gutted the military, there was a reason.
I agree wholeheartedly. USN is solely dependent upon satellites. It isn't a secret that China has been focusing on satellite disruption over the years, while the ussa has been pissing away trillions in the middle east.

Also there is a third incident (I'm not searching for a link) that another destroyer ran aground recently. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if it is China just doing what they said they would do if the US didn't stop their aggressive actions around China.
 

917601

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#58
I was thinking that but I think it was more to do with GPS spoofing with the ships thinking they were somewhere else. Just like those naval riverine boats that seemed to get lost in the Persian Gulf near Farsi Island and were stopped, boarded and taken prisoner by conveniently waiting Iranian Islamic Revolutionary Guard ships when their GPS said one thing and they were really somewhere else.
That is a true statement. The Iranians learned much from the US drone(s) they captured.
 

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#60

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#62
....try four ships, and does one really think the Navy would admit Russia and China have the tech to shut down our ships with advanced ECM weapons?
umm-urrr? was it not showed that radar could be over come? now play nice; was not our navy crept upon by the ruskies? yeah it happened.

edit: SHIT not saying the rukies did it....but they did a thing that got them very close.
 

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#63
could not have been just sitting there. Look at the tonnage
That's what I mean. Those things don't stop on a dime. If it was moving at all it seems to me that the gash would show some horizontal scraping aftward of the impact crater. There is none. It looks like it just took a dead-on hit with zero slippage.
 

917601

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#64
The US GPS system is rapidly deteriorating while Glonass and Baidu are adding satellites every day......the Chinese Baidu is expected to overtake the US system in usage and numbers (35-40 satellites) and spares by 2019 or so. Russian Glonass ditto. US systems very vulnerable in today's environment, very hackable and no spares, and the west is unaware of how certain elements of Glonass and Baidu even function. You can thank Nobama for that crisis. I had posted info a few years back after attending training on some related " equipment".....last year the US and Europe had crisis " conventions" on this very topic....
 

917601

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#65
...oh, I forgot, beaware, our entire banking system is dependent on " time stamps", and a large majority of daily transactions in the US depend on GPS for the time stamp.
 

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#67
Well I just talked to a couple navy people...

Apparently the ships are in pretty bad shape and the government does not take time to fix the problems. I've been told that things such as fires from generators happen often, steering goes out often and other issues occur. Things that would ground a ship according to the rulejs are simply overridden by a waiver from the higher ups... I could understand if we were at war, but we are not. Trump needs to fix our ships, the past administrations have failed us.

Maybe they will now fix these things, it's sad that 17 people had to drown in their beds because the government kept putting maintenance off. Our sailors deserve more than that.
 
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searcher

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#69
Head of US Navy's 7th fleet is RELIEVED of duty after two deadly warship collisions in two months leaves 17 sailors dead or missing
  • Vice Admiral Joseph Aucoin is expected to lose his command on Wednesday
  • The crash of the USS John S McCain on Monday happened under his watch
  • It was the fourth ship to be in a collision or run aground since January
  • Other ships were Fitzgerald in June; Lake Champlain in May; Antietam in January
  • Ten sailors are missing on the McCain; some remains were found on Monday
  • And seven sailors died following the Fitzgerald's crash in June
  • Aucoin is not being blamed, but his superiors have lost confidence in him


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4814954/Navy-relieve-Pacific-admiral-command-crashes.html#ixzz4qZEYyuhH
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
 

D-FENZ

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#70
Joseph Aucoin, Vice Admiral of the 7th Fleet no more.

But he still has that awesome last name- Aucoin. If I could pick my own it would be AUcoin or at least AGcoin.

Must be a stacker. Could he be a Gimmer?
 

GSM/MM

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#71
All ships can "reverse screws" to stop &/or back up. Also, if the ship has twin, or more screws, it can steer with the screws !
All ships can "reverse screws" to stop &/or back up. Also, if the ship has twin, or more screws, it can steer with the screws !
in the case of this navy ship it has twin screws, so you can steer without rudders. the props are also controllable reversable pitch so you can start and stop on a dime. you could even use a combination of the two. This is a combination of democratic admn control, low morale, reduced manning, experimenting with reduced manning, lack of parts, etc.-probably a combination of above. R/
 

GSM/MM

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#72
Well I just talked to a couple navy people...

Apparently the ships are in pretty bad shape and the government does not take time to fix the problems. I've been told that things such as fires from generators happen often, steering goes out often and other issues occur. Things that would ground a ship according to the rulejs are simply overridden by a waiver from the higher ups... I could understand if we were at war, but we are not. Trump needs to fix our ships, the past administrations have failed us.

Maybe they will now fix these things, it's sad that 17 people had to drown in their beds because the government kept putting maintenance off. Our sailors deserve more than that.
ships are always sent to sea, even with issues. they float, lol. they get away with issues that would ground planes or keep subs from going to sea. Even with cut backs experienced during a should I say liberal admn this is sadly probably a personnel issue/screw-up. But hey let's add social experimentation to the mix under orders from people who likely never served a day in their lives.
 

searcher

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#73
To Be Or To Do – A Naval Career In The Wake Of The USS Fitzgerald & McCain

August 23, 2017 by John Konrad




Colonel John Boyd, USAF

By Captain John Konrad (gCaptain) Memorialized in bronze by the United States Marine Corps and actively ignored by the general officers in his own service, Colonel John Boyd was a polarizing figure. He was also a genius who is credited with changing the face of warfare forever.

During the past two months, I’ve been hitting the books, trying to understand problems which may have resulted in the fatal collision between the USS Fitzgerald and the ACX Crystal. My research has included a dozen of government reports, U.S. Navy manuals, and books about American Naval operations as well as studies and reports on error chains and risk management. Through all this, one name keeps surfacing in these sources of research that are not connected with the Navy or Merchant Marine and one name is conspicuously absent from those that do: Colonel John Boyd.

Why this name is important in order to understand human factors related to collision avoidance and how Boyd’s teachings could revolutionize Bridge Resource Management will be the subject of an upcoming series of gCaptain articles, but I am posting this article today for two specific reasons:

Looking For the Fightership Mafia
If the name John Boyd means nothing to you, then scroll down to the next section. But if you know of a group (or reading material) that relates the teachings of John Boyd to Naval Operations, Naval Procurement or Maneuver Warfare at sea, then please contact me ([email protected] – +1.805.456.8644). The editors at gCaptain are interested in learning more.

(We don’t normally publish such requests, or my personal contact info, but such a group, if one exists, would operate under the radar).

To Be or To Do – A Message From John Boyd

Dozens of active duty navy personnel have contacted us to share information or ideas that might help the Navy improve and prevent future incidents. Some also have shared troubling information from inside the Navy. Some of this information has been shared in more recent articles but most of it remains unpublished.

Why? We can’t publish off the record information that is uncorroborated no matter how reliable the source and nearly all the Navy officers who contacted us asked to be off the record. None were willing to share additional sources within the Navy who would be willing to talk to us about troubling problems.

The most common question we receive (from both Naval officers and maritime industry insiders) is: How do I share this information – or how do I take steps to fix the problems myself – without ruining my career?

My answer is: you can’t.

The next question is more difficult to answer: why not?

I have still not developed an answer that I’m happy with but, during my research on military procedure, I did find a direct answer that resonates deeply.

The answer comes from John Boyd and I will share his words because they are important. They are also at the heart of gCaptain’s success in the last 10 years. They are the reason we have testified to congress, why I was a whistleblower in the offshore industry, why we became an early adopter of Social Media, why I wrote the best selling book on the largest man made environmental disaster in history and why my alma mater made me SUNY Maritime College’s Alumni Of The Year 2016. But it is also the reason I have been fired from two ships, why I was expelled from the US Naval Academy, why gCaptain once turned down a $6 million buyout offer, and why I received death threats after publishing my book. All of this is a result of the fact we at gCaptain are, and we publish articles written by, people who do.

What does that mean? We’ll let John Boyd explain:
“Tiger,” Boyd would say to young Air Force officers faced with a difficult choice, “one day you will come to a fork in the road:”

“And you’re going to have to make a decision about which direction you want to go.”

Then he raised his hand and pointed. “If you go that way you can be somebody. You will have to make compromises and you will have to turn your back on your friends. But you will be a member of the club and you will get promoted and you will get good assignments.”

Then Boyd raised his other hand and pointed in the another direction. “Or you can go that way and you can do something — something for your country and for your Air Force and for yourself. If you decide you want to do something, you may not get promoted and you may not get the good assignments and you certainly will not be a favorite of your superiors. But you won’t have to compromise yourself. You will be true to your friends and to yourself. And your work might make a difference. To be somebody or to do something. In life there is often a roll call. That’s when you will have to make a decision. To be or to do? Which way will you go?

So which will It Be?
I am posting this now, days after the USS John S. McCain collided with a product tanker, because many smart and motivated and patriotic naval officers now have contacted looking to expose problems. Dozens more commissioned officers aboard US Navy ships, as well as civilian officers aboard Military Sealift Command vessels, are sitting on information or are frustrated by Naval Leadership and bureaucracy or want to do something to help prevent ships from colliding.

Most will choose to do nothing and some will read Boyd’s words and choose “To Be”- I do not judge those who choose the path I often wish I had taken – but a select few will choose I do and they need encouragement for the choice they are about to make. A choice that will ruin their career and make life harder for themselves and their family… but a choice that will also give then a great sense of accomplishment and allow them to sleep like a baby at night.

Take my word for it or take John Boyd’s or find someone you trust that does good things at personal expense…. but either way don’t let time pass by because time is the only resource the world does not have in abundance. And those who choose to do nothing will end up with the worst of both worlds.

So how do you share this problematic information or work within the Navy to fix systemic problems without ruining your career? You don’t. You can’t. All you can do is choose: To Be or To Do.

Filed Under: Blog Tagged With: Boyd, bridge_resource_management, brm

http://gcaptain.com/the-uss-mccain-to-be-or-to-do/
 

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#75
U.S. Navy Suspends Search for Missing John S. McCain Sailors; IDs 1 Dead and 9 Missing

August 24, 2017 by Reuters


The guided-missile destroyer USS John S. McCain (DDG 56) arrives pier side at Changi Naval Base in Singapore following a collision with the merchant vessel east of Singapore, August 21, 2017. U.S. Navy Photo


By Aradhana Aravindan SINGAPORE, Aug 24 (Reuters) – The U.S. Navy on Thursday suspended wider search and rescue operations for sailors missing after the warship USS John S. McCain collided with a merchant vessel in waters near Singapore and Malaysia earlier this week.

A statement on the U.S. Seventh Fleet’s website confirmed the identities of one sailor killed and of nine sailors still missing following the collision (below).

U.S. Navy and Marine Corps divers will continue search-and-recovery efforts inside flooded sailors, the statement said. “After more than 80 hours of multinational search efforts, the U.S. Navy suspended search and rescue efforts for missing USS John S. McCain sailors in an approximately 2,100-square mile area east of the Straits of Malacca and Singapore,” it said.

An international search-and-rescue operation involving aircraft, divers and vessels from the United States, Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia, and Australia had been looking for the missing sailors over an area of about 5,500 square kilometers around the crash site.

The U.S. Navy on Tuesday found remains of missing sailors inside sealed sections of the damaged hull of the John S. McCain, which is moored at Singapore’s Changi Naval Base.

Earlier on Thursday, the Navy said a medical examination of human remains found by the Malaysian navy about eight nautical miles northwest of the collision site were not one of its missing sailors.

Singapore’s Maritime and Port Authority said the multi-agency search and rescue operation was suspended from 9 p.m. local time on Thursday. Singapore will continue to support the U.S. Navy in their search on the warship, it said.

The pre-dawn collision on Monday was the fourth major accident for the U.S. Pacific Fleet this year and has prompted a review of its operations.

The Navy on Wednesday removed Seventh Fleet Commander Vice Admiral Joseph Aucoin from his post, citing “a loss of confidence in his ability to command” after the run of accidents. Aucoin had been due to step down next month. Rear Admiral Phil Sawyer takes command of the fleet.

This week, the U.S. Navy flagged plans for temporary and staggered halts in operations across its global fleet to allow staff to focus on safety.

On Wednesday, Seventh Fleet ships deployed at a facility in Yokosuka, Japan, participated in a one-day operational pause in which officers and crew underwent fresh risk management and communications training.

The Seventh Fleet, headquartered in Japan, operates as many as 70 ships, including the U.S. Navy’s only forward-deployed aircraft carrier, and has about 140 aircraft and 20,000 sailors. (Reporting by Aradhana Aravindan; Writing by Sam Holmes; Editing by Robert Birsel/Mark Heinrich)

The U.S. Navy has identified the 1 dead and 9 missing as follows:

Recovered:

Electronics Technician 3rd Class Kenneth Aaron Smith, 22, from Cherry Hill, New Jersey.

Still missing are:

Electronics Technician 1st Class Charles Nathan Findley, 31, from Amazonia, Missouri
Interior Communications Electrician 1st Class Abraham Lopez, 39, from El Paso, Texas
Electronics Technician 2nd Class Kevin Sayer Bushell, 26, from Gaithersburg, Maryland
Electronics Technician 2nd Class Jacob Daniel Drake, 21, from Cable, Ohio
Information Systems Technician 2nd Class Timothy Thomas Eckels Jr., 23, from Manchester, Maryland
Information Systems Technician 2nd Class Corey George Ingram, 28, from Poughkeepsie, New York
Electronics Technician 3rd Class Dustin Louis Doyon, 26, from Suffield, Connecticut
Electronics Technician 3rd Class John Henry Hoagland III, 20, from Killeen, Texas
Interior Communications Electrician 3rd Class Logan Stephen Palmer, 23, from Decatur, Illinois

(c) Copyright Thomson Reuters 2017.

Filed Under: News Tagged With: U.S. Navy, USS John McCain
 

searcher

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#80
U.S. Navy recovers remains of second sailor after deadly USS John S McCain collision: Divers find body of technician, 26, in sea off Singapore as desperate search continues for eight crew members still missing
  • Two sailors were confirmed dead while eight remain missing after the USS John S McCain crashed into an oil tanker near Singapore Monday
  • The body of 26-year-old Electronics Technician 3rd Class Dustin Louis Doyon, of Connecticut, was found Thursday night by a group of divers
  • Earlier this week, the body of Kenneth Aaron Smith, 22, of New Jersey, also Electronics Technician 3rd Class, was found in flooded ship
  • The U.S. Navy since suspended the search while divers continue recovery efforts inside flooded compartments of the destroyer
  • The remaining eight are named as Abraham Lopez, 39, Nathan Findley, 31, Corey George Ingram, 28, Kevin Sayer Bushell, 26, Logan Stephen Palmer, 23, Timothy Thomas Eckels Jr., 23, Jacob Daniel Drake, 21 and John Henry Hoagland III, 20


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4823510/Navy-declares-two-dead-eight-missing-USS-McCain-crash.html#ixzz4qncdBw8C
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