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Flat Earth - For all the Ballers out there I have a question..

Joe King

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Clearly, the meaning of Observer is not within the context of quantum only..
The recent experiment to which you are referring to, only applies to realities at the quantum level.
...and so far none of the quantum-level weirdness that's been observed over the years, scales to the larger World that we interact with.
 

Libertaurum

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There aren't "two sides to this debate" because there is no actual debate. There are facts and knowledge and then there is paranoia and ignorance. That's not a debate. There's no two sides to whether 2+2=4, either.
 
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Joe King

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Apparently the Flat Earth expedition to Antarctica has been put on ice. Seems they don't want to do anything that would provide a definitive answer. Because charting a ship and going there is the quickest way to get an answer to their question.
Ie: it'll either be 14,000 miles to go around Antarctica, or it'll be 65,000 miles to go around.


Also, they'll see that in the Southern Hemisphere there is also an observable apparent point of rotation in the Southern night sky, same as in the Northern sky. The only way that could be possible is if the Earth is spherical in shape.
....but I suppose if I were makin' bank on flat Earth believers, I'd prolly not want it to end either, so why go?


Flat Earthers deny taking cruise to Antarctic to see 'the edge of the world'

Excursion will stick to warmer waters, rather than look for proof the globe is not, well, a globe
 

BarnacleBob

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The recent experiment to which you are referring to, only applies to realities at the quantum level.
...and so far none of the quantum-level weirdness that's been observed over the years, scales to the larger World that we interact with.
Spoken like a true materialist.... just like the so called arguments & debates of round v flat earth retains these discussions in the world of materialism.... However when you wrap your head around the truth, almost everything that is essential for YOU to exist is invisible. A doctor can cut your brain & heart open, etc. but they will never find your thoughts, memories, dreams, aspirations, motivations, experiences or beliefs, etc... They will never find why you like one particular food or activity over another... they can cut & study all they want, but they will never find YOU in the material world. YOU mentally exist outside of this reality, the physical body is merely an expression employed to animate YOU thru your thoughts.... 95+% of YOU is invisible and resides in the quantum world!!! JMO
 

Joe King

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just like the so called arguments & debates of round v flat earth retains these discussions in the world of materialism...
No matter what World, it ain't flat.

Flat vs round, has to be one or the other. Can't be both, and the physical evidence is strongly in favor of round. Anyone can prove it for themselves.
 

BarnacleBob

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No matter what World, it ain't flat.

Flat vs round, has to be one or the other. Can't be both, and the physical evidence is strongly in favor of round. Anyone can prove it for themselves.
Flat vs round, has to be one or the other... Why? According to the science of physics, its the observers choice as to how he wants to experience it... hence it can be round, flat, pear or donut shaped, etc.... The observer defines his experience as an actor, unless he capitulates and allows other actor/observers to define it for him....

"Get over it and accept the inarguable conclusion: The universe is immaterial, mental and spiritual." -- Richard Conn Henry, Academy Professor of Physics and Astronomy at Johns Hopkins University

By your previous expressions you indicate you experience this subject matter as round, hence your materialistic view of the world, viz. "has to be one or the other" fails to allow or even provide consideration for the invisible world, the world of invisible consciousness that we mostly experience...

"Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real. Atoms are made out of invisible energy, not tangible matter." Neils Bohr, Nobel Prize Winning Physicist

Unfortunately there is no universal truths or facts without universally accepted beliefs... the only "has to be one or the other" that is logical lays in the question of "Either Mind gives rise to Matter, or; Matter gives rise to Mind, either Consciousness creates matter or Matter creates consciousness".

The materialist is IMO mistaken, I believe mind & consciousness creates matter, not matter creating mind & consciousness. In reviewing Young's experiment, the recent objective reality or the many particle experiments, its rather absurd to think of reality as containing hard universal truths.

"As a man who has devoted his whole life to the most clear headed science, to the study of matter, I can tell you as a result of my research about atoms this much: There is no matter as such. All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particle of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter." -- Max Planck, “Das Wesen der Materie”, The Nature of Matter, speech at Florence, Italy, 1944 (from Archiv zur Geschichte der Max-Planck-Gesellschaft, Abt. Va, Rep. 11 Planck, Nr. 1797)

"Particles dont exist until observed, reality is created by information which is created by observation. The observation must be made by something conscious, a conscious observer capable of generating information by observing or measuring" -- John Archibald Wheeler, Numerous Prize Winning Physicist

"I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness." -- Max Planck, The Observer, January 25th, 1931
 

Bottom Feeder

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See, joe, I told ya, bob's sayin the same thing (although he might not agree) that I told you six months ago: we ain't real. You cannot prove that you exist. We are what and where we perceive.
 

BarnacleBob

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See, joe, I told ya, bob's sayin the same thing (although he might not agree) that I told you six months ago: we ain't real. You cannot prove that you exist. We are what and where we perceive.
@ BF, its rather amusing, for thousands of years the ancients knew & taught that the world reality wasnt actually material, then the industrial age launched and with it the age of materialism lie sprang forth... The age of materialism is today being transformed into the information age, which is a conscious forward step back into the pre-industrial period recognized knowledge.... namely that materialism is a lie that was concocted with all the other lies such as evolution, etc....

I would disagree with the statement, notion or idea that we are not real, we are, it is our perception of reality that isnt real, that said, we are constructed of a very tiny bit of substance, but it is real substance no less.

99.9999999% of Your Body Is Empty Space

https://www.sciencealert.com/99-9999999-of-your-body-is-empty-space

The religion of materialism which arose with industrialism has entered its dieing stage as the new world is developing. Like all established religions, dogmas, beliefs & ideologies, the accolytes of materialism will fight it to their deaths.... even when their beloved science contradicts their mistaken ideological beliefs.

Its rather a strange observation that a man will accept that 99.9999999% of an atom is empty space, and that same man thinks & believes this reality is hardened & material!
 

Bottom Feeder

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Well, when you look into the theoretical makeup of the atom you find that it is made of electrical charges.
So those tiny bits you talk of are ephemeral at best.
Bottom line is: you don't exist, it's a balancing act, just as the entire universe is.

BF
 

BarnacleBob

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Well, when you look into the theoretical makeup of the atom you find that it is made of electrical charges.
So those tiny bits you talk of are ephemeral at best.
Bottom line is: you don't exist, it's a balancing act, just as the entire universe is.

BF
I agree... everything is electric, and electricity has weight, not very much, but it has some. Said differently, 99.9999999% of the universe and our perception of reality is illusion. If "I" want to experience the earth shaped like a tennis ball or a piece of french toast, its my perception & illusion, no one else's.... I doubt if the universe wasnt 99.9999999% of space, then we couldnt manipulate & animate the illusion using our hands & tools....
 

Joe King

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Flat vs round, has to be one or the other... Why? According to the science of physics, its the observers choice as to how he wants to experience it... hence it can be round, flat, pear or donut shaped, etc..
If we both got into a rocket and blasted off into space, and then we both together looked out the window at the Earth, we'd both either see a flat Earth, or a round Earth, but not both at the same time.


See, joe, I told ya, bob's sayin the same thing (although he might not agree) that I told you six months ago: we ain't real. You cannot prove that you exist. We are what and where we perceive.
Not that I'd actually do this, but what if I snuck into your house and took a dump in your living room and stuck a little sign into it that said, "Joe was here!", would that constitute proof of my existence?

I'm pretty sure the police would say that it constitutes evidence of my existence. lol
 

Joe King

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I woke up this morning and couldn't find it in my reality, are you sure it was my living room? I'll look again...
No, I wouldn't do that to ya. I likes ya!


Edited to add: I was merely pointing out that leaving a mark that others know came from you, is in fact a way to prove existence when you aren't there to prove it in person.
 

engineear

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No, I wouldn't do that to ya. I likes ya!


Edited to add: I was merely pointing out that leaving a mark that others know came from you, is in fact a way to prove existence when you aren't there to prove it in person.
There's always the sniff test. Ewwwwww!
 

Bottom Feeder

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Joe, in person, across from each other havin a cuppa coffee, I would still argue with you that you cannot prove to me that you exist.
Anything that happens is what is supposed to happen in my mind's interpretation of did happen.
spill coffee on me? — that was in the 'script'
leave and stick me with the bill? — that was in the script.
whip out yer .357 mag and blow me away? — it was my day to die.
shake hands and say "see you later brother"? that was the way it was supposed to go.

Ya can't alter nothin.
:inspector:
BF
 

BarnacleBob

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If we both got into a rocket and blasted off into space, and then we both together looked out the window at the Earth, we'd both either see a flat Earth, or a round Earth, but not both at the same time.
Recent experiments suggest that your above statement is incorrect. A person taught & programmed from birth that believes the earth is flat c/would observe a flat earth, while at the same time, a person taught & programmed to believe the earth is round would see a round earth, while another taught & programmed that the earth is shaped like a Bartlet pear would observe a pear shaped planet. All three can contradict each others observations.... Theoretically if I can get you & the other observer to believe the planet is pear shaped, you both will observe a pear shaped planet.... back in the days of antiquity they called it majic, then it was called hypnosis, now its quantum mechanics!
 

BarnacleBob

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Joe, in person, across from each other havin a cuppa coffee, I would still argue with you that you cannot prove to me that you exist.
Anything that happens is what is supposed to happen in my mind's interpretation of did happen.
spill coffee on me? — that was in the 'script'
leave and stick me with the bill? — that was in the script.
whip out yer .357 mag and blow me away? — it was my day to die.
shake hands and say "see you later brother"? that was the way it was supposed to go.

Ya can't alter nothin.
:inspector:
BF
Are you talking about pre-destination.... ??? If so at what level does pre-destination occur, quantum, micro, macro, all three or more???
 

Joe King

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Recent experiments suggest that your above statement is incorrect. A person taught & programmed from birth that believes the earth is flat c/would observe a flat earth, while at the same time, a person taught & programmed to believe the earth is round would see a round earth, while another taught & programmed that the earth is shaped like a Bartlet pear would observe a pear shaped planet. All three can contradict each others observations.... Theoretically if I can get you & the other observer to believe the planet is pear shaped, you both will observe a pear shaped planet.
That assumes that people are incapable of processing new data. Which is absolutely not true. However, people can apply a bias and therefor choose to ignore new data that proves their old data to be wrong. That doesn't prove anything wrong though. All it proves is that some people willfully ignore evidence to the contrary of what they think they already know.
 

Bottom Feeder

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Are you talking about pre-destination.... ??? If so at what level does pre-destination occur, quantum, micro, macro, all three or more???
No, predestination doesn't work for me. "It was fate, they say, if he wouldn't have been there it wouldn't have happened." — duh. It's your stage, it's your play, you are the star, the center of attraction but you're not in charge. NO ONE can see the world through your eyes. Describe for me the color orange.

It's a tough sell, bob, but I've experienced fractionalized (is that a word?) reality — AKA mescaline trips. (35 - 40 years ago) And I'm used to people thinkin I'm nuts. When The Matrix came out it helped for a little while, but it was soon back to being That Crazy Bottom Feeder.

BF
 

BarnacleBob

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No, predestination doesn't work for me. "It was fate, they say, if he wouldn't have been there it wouldn't have happened." — duh. It's your stage, it's your play, you are the star, the center of attraction but you're not in charge. NO ONE can see the world through your eyes. Describe for me the color orange.

It's a tough sell, bob, but I've experienced fractionalized (is that a word?) reality — AKA mescaline trips. (35 - 40 years ago) And I'm used to people thinkin I'm nuts. When The Matrix came out it helped for a little while, but it was soon back to being That Crazy Bottom Feeder.

BF
We think of reality a lot alike.... indeed its my experience, my observation & my stage etc... no one can see see, hear, or feel the world thru my invisible senses.... The programmers & materialists cannot stand the fact or idea that we are all different, that our needs & perceptions are all different... they want everything THEY perceive uniform, neat & tidy... which is an axiomatic impossibility in a sea of chaos.

When I travel on land or sea, I could care less whether the Earth is flat or round, whether there is a dome or not, however its a lot easier mentally & energy efficient to perceive the world as flat... all those questions about water always leveling are answered without the need for making magical words like gravity or a 1000 mph spinning ball, etc... Natures interesting like that, its a very efficient manager of its system. It doesnt usually waste energy on unproductive tasks...
 

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See, joe, I told ya, bob's sayin the same thing (although he might not agree) that I told you six months ago: we ain't real. You cannot prove that you exist. We are what and where we perceive.
How about, I think, therefore I am?
 

michael59

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Interesting, JK, where I live the wind USUALLY causes the clouds to travel west to east BUT when the wind changes, the clouds go from east to west. Does the earth also change direction ? Just asking.
awhhahahaha shit, that was funny.
 

Joe King

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Recent experiments suggest that your above statement is incorrect.
Until they nixxed the idea, there was talk of a flat Earth expedition to Antarctica. If they were to go sail around Antarctica, it could only be one of two things. Either it would require a 10,500 mile trip to sail around it, or it would require a 70,000 mile trip to sail around a flat Earth's ice wall. It could not possibly be both, as everyone on board would agree on how many days they've all been on the ship.

Too bad the flat Earth people won't ever do anything that might actually prove that they are wrong.
 

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Apparently you can take a cruise to the ice wall that surrounds the oceans.

https://www.space.com/flat-earther-cruise-antarctica-ice-wall.html

Flat-Earthers' Cruise Will Sail to Antarctica 'Ice Wall' at the Planet's Edge. Right.
By Mindy Weisberger 8 hours ago Science & Astronomy

Seriously, people?
(Image: © Ian Cuming/Ikon Images via Getty Images)

Organizers of an annual conference that brings together people who believe that the Earth is flat are planning a cruise to the purported edge of the planet. They're looking for the ice wall that holds back the oceans.
The journey will take place in 2020, the Flat Earth International Conference (FEIC) recently announced on its website. The goal? To test so-called flat-Earthers' assertion that Earth is a flattened disk surrounded at its edge by a towering wall of ice.
Details about the event, including the dates, are forthcoming, according to the FEIC, which calls the cruise "the biggest, boldest adventure yet." However, it's worth noting that nautical maps and navigation technologies such as global positioning systems (GPS) work as they do because the Earth is … a globe. [7 Ways to Prove the Earth Is Round]
Believers in a flat Earth argue that images showing a curved horizon are fake and that photos of a round Earth from space are part of a vast conspiracy perpetrated by NASA and other space agencies to hide Earth's flatness. These and other flat-Earth assertions appear on the website of the Flat Earth Society (FES), allegedly the world's oldest official flat Earth organization, dating to the early 1800s.
However, the ancient Greeks demonstrated that Earth was a sphere more than 2,000 years ago, and the gravity that keeps everything on the planet from flying off into space could exist only on a spherical world.
But in diagrams shared on the FES website, the planet appears as a pancake-like disk with the North Pole smack in the center and an edge "surrounded on all sides by an ice wall that holds the oceans back." This ice wall — thought by some flat-Earthers to be Antarctica — is the destination of the promised FEIC cruise.
There's just one catch: Navigational charts and systems that guide cruise ships and other vessels around Earth's oceans are all based on the principle of a round Earth, Henk Keijer, a former cruise ship captain with 23 years of experience, told The Guardian.
GPS relies on a network of dozens of satellites orbiting thousands of miles above Earth; signals from the satellites beam down to the receiver inside of a GPS device, and at least three satellites are required to pinpoint a precise position because of Earth's curvature, Keijer explained.
"Had the Earth been flat, a total of three satellites would have been enough to provide this information to everyone on Earth," Keijer said. "But it is not enough, because the Earth is round."
Whether or not the FEIC cruise will rely on GPS or deploy an entirely new flat-Earth-based navigation system for finding the end of the world, remains to be seen.
 

BarnacleBob

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OURANOS: LORD OF THE DOME

OURANOS (or Uranus) was the primeval god (protogenos) of the “sky”. The Greeks imagined the sky as a solid dome of brass, decorated with stars, whose edges descended to rest upon the outermost limits of the flat earth. Ouranos was the literal sky, just as his consort Gaia was the earth.

https://theaeoneye.com/2016/09/09/ouranos-lord-of-the-dome/
 

arminius

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I think, therefore I am.

You? No clue

Flat vs Globular?

No clue, even tho we've developed extremely complicated ways of believing that we really do and can know...
 

Joe King

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The Greeks imagined the sky as a solid dome of brass, decorated with stars, whose edges descended to rest upon the outermost limits of the flat earth.
Key word there is "imagined", because that's exactly what they did. Imagine how things work.

Imagine: to form a mental image or concept through the act of supposing and/or assuming.
 

Joe King

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The truth of the matter, finally revealed!


 

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If the Earth was flat, cats would’ve knocked everything off of it by now.
 

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Zed

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I'm a hollow earther!

 

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Zed

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