• Same story, different day...........year ie more of the same fiat floods the world
  • There are no markets
  • "Spreading the ideas of freedom loving people on matters regarding high finance, politics, constructionist Constitution, and mental masturbation of all types"

For the members who worship a religion, tell me your opinion on this :

Howdy

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#81
i would contend that there is no way to know if something is altered without having access to the original texts (could in fact have been multiple versions of the original texts)
If there really is such an entity as Satan, I think he would have had his helpers subvert the Bible at every translation and even subvert our language so as to cause misinterpretation of ancient texts.
If I ever became inclined to become a religious man, I don't think I would join any of the major Churches, as they are likely subverted too. I would join up with an independent Church or simply study on my own.
 

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#82
If there really is such an entity as Satan, I think he would have had his helpers subvert the Bible at every translation and even subvert our language so as to cause misinterpretation of ancient texts.
If I ever became inclined to become a religious man, I don't think I would join any of the major Churches, as they are likely subverted too. I would join up with an independent Church or simply study on my own.
If you study the earliest bibles, you clearly can see the revisions to make Judaism to be closer to monotheistic.

Yahweh is the God of war for the Israelis. They rewrote their holy book to make the god of war the god of all and banned any worship of other gods.

If Yahweh is god of all and jealous like it claims, why would Yahweh make other gods in the first place? And then punish us for picking the wrong one?
 

bb28

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#83
Yahweh is the creator God.

The other gods are demons.

God the father makes provision for every man to get into heaven. Revelation 5 says they will number in the tens of thousands of thousands and come from every kindred, tongue, and nation. That means man is without excuse, because whatever your victim story, there will be a representative of your people there who has a genuine testimony for the blood of Jesus Christ.

bb
 

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#85
Yahweh is the creator God.

The other gods are demons.

God the father makes provision for every man to get into heaven. Revelation 5 says they will number in the tens of thousands of thousands and come from every kindred, tongue, and nation. That means man is without excuse, because whatever your victim story, there will be a representative of your people there who has a genuine testimony for the blood of Jesus Christ.

bb
The hebrew religion started as polytheistic and originated from a branch of canaanites. Many scholars argue indeed that the ancient hebrews practiced some kind of monolatrism that developed into monotheism.

As far as I know, the Dead Sea scrolls has the oldest version of Deuteronomy and it states in 32: 8-9

"When Elyon gave the nations as an inheritance, when he separated the sons of man, he set the boundaries of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God (bny 'l[hym]). For Yahweh's portion was his people; Jacob was the lot of his inheritance"
https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/questions/7862/what-is-the-original-text-of-deuteronomy-328-9

It clearly makes the distinction between the most high God and Yahweh, and states that Yahweh is one of many sons of the highest God and that each nation has their own God. They are not demons... That also is a Canaanite belief.

As time went on Yahweh was revised into being the god of all.
 

Son of Gloin

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#86
You're reading this without understanding. The Earth was given to Lucifer and is divided into nations. Even Jesus acknowledged that to be so when he fasted in the desert for forty days and was visited by Satan. The nations, or regions of the Earth are ruled over by principalities, or angels. Fallen angels to be precise. But, Yahweh took Jacob and his people. They were an insignificant group, small in number. God would prove He was The God by what He could accomplish with so little.

That is how He always works. He uses the most unlikely characters, flawed people to accomplish His goals. Noah, an alcoholic. Moses, slow of speech. Just a couple of examples. Maybe even today. Everyone realizes how flawed Donald Trump is, as a person. But many think he very well might be God's man of the hour in the US, to fight back the tide of obvious evil being thrown at us. Likewise, He will save all those in this world who are willing by the use of a small group of flawed people, the sons of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. My Bible says,"For the Lord's portion is His people; Jacob is the lot of His inheritance." It doesn't mean it was given to Him. It's what He took.
 
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#87
Your question shows a complete lack of understanding of Christian beliefs. Jesus has saved us not by any good works we do, but by faith. Good works have no bearing on salvation, only faith and belief in Jesus. I suggest you consider accepting the free gift of salvation offered by God almighty through his Son Jesus Christ who died on the cross for your sins. The gift is yours for the taking and I will pray for you that you will accept it.

Ephesians 2:8-10: For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them

John 3:16: For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, so that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
 

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#88
You're reading this without understanding. The Earth was given to Lucifer and is divided into nations. Even Jesus acknowledged that to be so when he fasted in the desert for forty days and was visited by Satan. The nations, or regions of the Earth are ruled over by principalities, or angels. Fallen angels to be precise. But, Yaweh took Jacob and his people. They were an insignificant group, small in number. God would prove He was The God by what He could accomplish with so little.

That is how He always works. He uses the most unlikely characters, flawed people to accomplish His goals. Noah, an alcoholic. Moses, slow of speech. Just a couple of examples. Maybe even today. Everyone realizes how flawed Donald Trump is, as a person. But many think he very well might be God's man of the hour in the US, to fight back the tide of obvious evil being thrown at us. Likewise, He will save all those in this world who are willing by the use of a small group of flawed people, the sons of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. My Bible says,"For the Lord's portion is His people; Jacob is the lot of His inheritance." It doesn't mean it was given to Him. It's what He took.
Your bible has been revised more.
Can we agree that the earlier versions are closer to the original?

The Dead Sea scrolls don't say that earth was divided amongst angels, it says sons of the highest God.

If it were angels it would have said angels.
 

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#90
Your question shows a complete lack of understanding of Christian beliefs. Jesus has saved us not by any good works we do, but by faith. Good works have no bearing on salvation, only faith and belief in Jesus. I suggest you consider accepting the free gift of salvation offered by God almighty through his Son Jesus Christ who died on the cross for your sins. The gift is yours for the taking and I will pray for you that you will accept it.

Ephesians 2:8-10: For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them

John 3:16: For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, so that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
umm..no..my questions come with a UNDERSTANDING of those beliefs and how un-sensible they are. That's the whole damn point of my questions !

As I mentioned before , I would rather spend a eternity surrounded by good , trustworthy, honest, moral people , who did not fall for the scam of religions, then spend a eternity with mass murders, adulterers , pedophiles and other unsavory humans, who decided late in their life, to repent or ask to be forgiven on their death bed . For me, its common sense.
 

Son of Gloin

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#91
Your bible has been revised more.
Can we agree that the earlier versions are closer to the original?

The Dead Sea scrolls don't say that earth was divided amongst angels, it says sons of the highest God.

If it were angels it would have said angels.
I agree with you concerning the DSS being a lesser revision. You're reading this passage, though, all by itself, I think, without a broader understanding. As a for instance, the sons of god are always in reference to angels in the OT. Yahweh is not one of the sons of god.
 

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#92
I agree with you concerning the DSS being a lesser revision. You're reading this passage, though, all by itself, I think, without a broader understanding. As a for instance, the sons of god are always in reference to angels in the OT. Yahweh is not one of the sons of god.
Maybe it does mean angels, I'm not 100% sure.

But it does state that Yahweh is also a son of the highest God or an angel either way.
 

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#93
When Moses met Yaweh for the 1st time he encountered the burning bush. We all know that "the movie" said HIS name was "I am that I am". That isn't quite complete. Moses asked Him what His name was, what does it mean, what makes you different than the hundreds of gods they already worship?
The reply was...I am the eternal creator who causes all of creation,
I am the eternal existent one who causes all of existence,
I am the one who was, who is, who will be,
I am the first, the last, the entire substance in between!"

HIS name has been changed thousands of times in the Bible to mislead us. He has a name, Yaweh, not God. God is a title. Oh, but we use a capital "G" to signify Him. But, there are no capitals in Hebrew. If you call Him god you are putting Him in the same class as Baal or Molech. We call Him lord, but, with a capital "L". Look up lord and you will see it references Baal.

Just like the story of the apple is completely fabricated so is His name. Satan is a liar, deceiver and a destroyer who knows his time is short. The "when TSHTF days" are fast approaching. The deceptions will be great, that unless the days were shortened even the very elect would be deceived.

Believe what you will AFTER you research what the words meant in Hebrew. Get a Strong's concordance, turn off the TV evangelists and study. Use a King James version but know many things have been slightly altered. That's why you need a Strong's.
Like the 4 horsemen in Revelations. We are taught the white horse is carrying a "bow", that he is Satan. Research shows a "bow" is a cloth that carries seed. We believe that means Yashua comes spreading seed,"His word" before the other deadly horsemen arrive. And, when the other 3 come on the scene, 1 at a time, they are here until the end. The white horse isn't mentioned after the last 3 show up. We believe that means His word is taken away for a short time..."people will hunger for food(His word) but will not be found."

Revelations 12:1 will occur on September 23rd, will we see a change?

1 day closer.
 

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#94
I thought Yahweh meant literally my name is my name or I am what I am.
 

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#95
I'm glad to see people debating on what the religious texts actually mean, because it is another indication of just how contrived those texts are.
I would think a all knowing, divine God, would have written a text, that was much easier to comprehend, so its readers could agree on its meanings and insights. Instead, you have texts that are so convulted, that not even the most hardened religious people can agree upon its meanings.

Satan is the destroyer ? Well other religions have a different name for him..for example, SHIVA.
as far as predictions of the end times now here, or close , weve heard that for over 2000 years. Don't religious people ever tire of being wrong with these predictions ? I would be ashamed if I were part of a club, that had a track record of errors for 2000 years, and I certainly would not
extend that continuity of errors, by continuing to make false religious predictions. All that does is hurt the religion even more.

So now, sept 23rd , is the day the culties are forecasting as " end days arrival ? OVEY...! I guess the culties mindset is to endlessly make these predictions, for thousands of years, with them knowing that the law of averages, will eventually mean that one of their religious predictions may come true. For now, they are batting zero ....in the last span of 2000 years.
 

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#97
Never said it was "end days arrival", you just did. I guess you need an interpretation of what it does mean and then you can pass judgement on it.
Yes, tell us exactly, what is supposed to happen on sept 23rd 2017 , from your religious point of view ? This is your chance to prove your religion is the only right one, with the only accurate predictions of the future. I am honored to have this chance, for you to provide proof you have it " right" with your choice of 1 religion. Please, do not come up with any excuses to " back out" of this opportunity. If you do that, then we will have to conclude that not even you have enough faith, to post this info on this forum or at the very least, you don't have a clue what is supposed to happen and when it is supposed to happen despite having the most powerful and accurate religion, religious text, and Gods words at your side.
 

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#98
We believe that means His word is taken away for a short time..."people will hunger for food(His word) but will not be found."
Engineear: you posted a lot of stuff without substantiation. I'm not sure where you got all of that from, but can you tell me who "we" is? Is there more than one of you?

bb
 

keef

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#99
Hey, seek on this:

MMMmmmmm all six inches.
 

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I'm glad to see people debating on what the religious texts actually mean, because it is another indication of just how contrived those texts are.
I would think a all knowing, divine God, would have written a text, that was much easier to comprehend, so its readers could agree on its meanings and insights. Instead, you have texts that are so convulted, that not even the most hardened religious people can agree upon its meanings.

Satan is the destroyer ? Well other religions have a different name for him..for example, SHIVA.
as far as predictions of the end times now here, or close , weve heard that for over 2000 years. Don't religious people ever tire of being wrong with these predictions ? I would be ashamed if I were part of a club, that had a track record of errors for 2000 years, and I certainly would not
extend that continuity of errors, by continuing to make false religious predictions. All that does is hurt the religion even more.

So now, sept 23rd , is the day the culties are forecasting as " end days arrival ? OVEY...! I guess the culties mindset is to endlessly make these predictions, for thousands of years, with them knowing that the law of averages, will eventually mean that one of their religious predictions may come true. For now, they are batting zero ....in the last span of 2000 years.
not that you asked me but yes i can tell you what will happen on sept 23 2017 .....first off in the bible it states GOD created the heavens and earth and separated light from dark etc...

and yes i do believe in a supreme being "GOD" ...and will until some scientist can create the spark of life from bare elements

so on sept 23 i predict that due to the above statements the sun will indeed come up ...and set and GODs appointed time

also says in Bible "But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father."kjv so anyone predicting the end of the world is not being biblical

:)
 
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HardTruth

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I, too, predict that on September 23, 2017 the sun will rise and set, but I don't guarantee it.:funky:
I predict , on that same day, silver will finally hit $200 per oz, like has been predicted on this forum for 15 years now.

I also predict, my above prediction will be completely wrong, allowing me to have something in common with a lot of the people on this forum.
 

Son of Gloin

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I thought Yahweh meant literally my name is my name or I am what I am.
I am what I am. That's what Popeye the sailor says. God told Moses, "I am THAT I am." I've been wondering over the meaning of those words for years.
 

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I am what I am. That's what Popeye the sailor says. God told Moses, "I am THAT I am." I've been wondering over the meaning of those words for years.
Isnt it a bit obtuse, that the divine God, who knows everything and wanted all his human creations to worship the 1 correct god/ religion, also created religious texts and biblical commands/ phrasings , that are so vague or misworded , that each individual can interpret it in completely different way ?

Seems to me, that this God, liked to confuse people , or his original words/ commands have been severely mutated over eons, to the point that no one on earth can truly know for sure what many of those altered religious words/ biblical phrases mean.

Convoluted religions surely help to keep the human race , in the dark and divided.

We can take 100 random religious people. lock them in a room together, have them read the bible verses, and they would all greatly disagree on the meanings of many of those verses.
 

bb28

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I am what I am. That's what Popeye the sailor says. God told Moses, "I am THAT I am." I've been wondering over the meaning of those words for years.
I am paraphrasing, but for me the "I Am" is always read in contrast to "I will". Anything that is not, is rebellion and thus fake and contrived.

I will ascend into heaven.
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God.
I will sit upon the mount of the congregation.
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds.
I will make myself like the Most High.

bb
 

HardTruth

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Isnt it a bit obtuse, that the divine God, who knows everything and wanted all his human creations to worship the 1 correct god/ religion, also created religious texts and biblical commands/ phrasings , that are so vague or misworded , that each individual can interpret it in completely different way ?

Seems to me, that this God, liked to confuse people , or his original words/ commands have been severely mutated over eons, to the point that no one on earth can truly know for sure what many of those altered religious words/ biblical phrases mean.

Convoluted religions surely help to keep the human race , in the dark and divided.

We can take 100 random religious people. lock them in a room together, have them read the bible verses, and they would all greatly disagree on the meanings of many of those verses.
Any religious people , disagree with the above observations ?
 

bb28

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We can take 100 random religious people. lock them in a room together, have them read the bible verses, and they would all greatly disagree on the meanings of many of those verses.
So, what? The bible says that would be the case. You have a bunch of wolves in sheep's clothing and brothers who crept in unawares. It is supposed to be like that. Do you think Satan wouldn't send his people to infiltrate the church? Read the parable of the wheat and the tares. At least you are pretty straightforward about who and what you are.

Instead of calling them religious people, why don't you look at whether they actually believe what is written in their holy book?

James 2;18 says:

But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?

Matthew 7;15 says by their fruits you shall know them.

bb
 

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So, what? The bible says that would be the case. You have a bunch of wolves in sheep's clothing and brothers who crept in unawares. It is supposed to be like that. Do you think Satan wouldn't send his people to infiltrate the church? Read the parable of the wheat and the tares. At least you are pretty straightforward about who and what you are.

bb
UMM...so you are insinuating, that I am satan..or one of satans minions ?

Yeah, you religious folk, can be down right looney.

such a sick mental illness it is.
 

bb28

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UMM...so you are insinuating, that I am satan..or one of satans minions ?
I am saying there are people who creep into churches and pretend to be believers in order to infiltrate, divide and conquer.

It can be difficult to determine who they are before they have caused a lot of damage.

You, on the contrary, are at least up front enough to make it known you do not believe the bible.

bb
 

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Isnt it a bit obtuse, that the divine God, who knows everything and wanted all his human creations to worship the 1 correct god/ religion, also created religious texts and biblical commands/ phrasings , that are so vague or misworded , that each individual can interpret it in completely different way ?

Seems to me, that this God, liked to confuse people , or his original words/ commands have been severely mutated over eons, to the point that no one on earth can truly know for sure what many of those altered religious words/ biblical phrases mean.

Convoluted religions surely help to keep the human race , in the dark and divided.

We can take 100 random religious people. lock them in a room together, have them read the bible verses, and they would all greatly disagree on the meanings of many of those verses.
Then, there are those who really don't want answers, but just revel in the argument and accusations. They have their minds made up without understanding or deep thought, taking everything at face value. And they have assumptions, relying on the fantasies of their own minds, rather than reflecting more seriously on the things they read and take out of context, about what all them deluded folks think and believe. Because if they were to take them deluded more seriously and actually listen, that might upset their whole universe.
 

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Then, there are those who really don't want answers, but just revel in the argument and accusations. They have their minds made up without understanding or deep thought, taking everything at face value. And they have assumptions, relying on the fantasies of their own minds, rather than reflecting more seriously on the things they read and take out of context, about what all them deluded folks think and believe. Because if they were to take them deluded more seriously and actually listen, that might upset their whole universe.
so you agree ..the bible is obtuse, convoluted to the point that each person can twist the verses to mean varying things . You also agree that any divine all knowing god, that wanted ALL his human creations to worship the bible, shoulda done a better job at making the bible more precise
and to the point , so each individual would not be able to so easily claim the verses mean one thing, while other people claim those same verses, mean other things.

By the way...one of the more silly commands in the bible, for me anyways , is the verse that talks about " not to eat shellfish , bottom dwellers of the sea" or something like that.
 

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I am what I am. That's what Popeye the sailor says. God told Moses, "I am THAT I am." I've been wondering over the meaning of those words for years.
I believe those words are meant to be mysterious, though. We are talking about The Creator. He is The Alpha and Omega, The Beginning and The End, He is The All and Everything without which there would be nothing. Nothing. Why should His Name not be a depth of mystery? That's why I wonder over those words. I know what they mean and yet, I don't. He is the ultimate mystery and so is His name.
 
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Son of Gloin

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so you agree ..the bible is obtuse, convoluted to the point that each person can twist the verses to mean varying things . You also agree that any divine all knowing god, that wanted ALL his human creations to worship the bible, shoulda done a better job at making the bible more precise
and to the point , so each individual would not be able to so easily claim the verses mean one thing, while other people claim those same verses, mean other things.
No! Pay attention!
 

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I believe those words are meant to be mysterious, though. We are talking about The Creator. He is The Alpha and Omega, The Beginning and The End, He is The All and Everything without which there would be nothing. Nothing. Why should His Name not be a depth of mystery? That's why I wonder over those words. I know what they mean and yet, I don't. He is the ultimate mystery and so I His name.

WHY SHOULD IT NOT BE A MYSTERY, YOU ASK ?

Ill tell ya why..because your same God, evidently wants all his human creations to worship God and embrace the bible and understand the words within the bible. This is yet another silly religious hypocrisy, because many of the bible verses are anything BUT, clear and concise.

Your OPINION, of what certain bible verses mean, will be different then countless other people...YET, you want others to believe your version and your beliefs of the definitions of such obtuse and vague verses, commands, religious writings.
 

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Your OPINION, of what certain bible verses mean, will be different then countless other people...YET, you want others to believe your version and your beliefs of the definitions of such obtuse and vague verses, commands, religious writings.
The bible was only meant to be read by those who have eyes to see and ears to hear. This has already been mentioned. People who are not willing to read it from the right perspective will come up with countless heresies.

bb
 

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The bible was only meant to be read by those who have eyes to see and ears to hear. This has already been mentioned. People who are not willing to read it from the right perspective will come up with countless heresies.

bb
yes...I understand...you are 1 of the rare people , that fully understands it and reads it from the" proper " perspective.

But of course, most other religious people make the exact same claim you do....they claim they have it figured out..and their opinions of it are correct ..and your opinions are incorrect.

The circular religious logic, never ends. Its like a gerbil running in its spinning wheel .
 

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yes...I understand...you are 1 of the rare people , that fully understands it and reads it from the" proper " perspective.
The only thing I have in order to understand from the proper perspective is humility and faith before God's word.

2 Peter 2;
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not. ...

It's been mentioned here before how many "holy" people are running a business.

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HardTruth

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Hard Truth,

I find it hard to discuss anything without some background. I've read what you don't believe, now what is it you do believe?
I believe, that TPTB, would NEVER allow any text into the hands of us peon humans in society, that told all the facts of creation, the universe ,
etc. By them keeping such knowledge in their possession, it ensures they always keep the advantage and the rest of us are just left " guessing" on these things. After all, this same TPTB, has done a great job of controlling the printing presses and flow of info to the masses, for eons.

I also think that there may be more then 2 main options to the existence of life {divine creation, evolution} , that we have been taught. I think its more likely, we are lab rats created by advanced aliens and maybe a bit of evolution plays into it all .

I do not think any divine, perfect, loving, moral and forgiving God/s embrace a evil religious dogma of " WORSHIP ME , FEAR ME , IDOLIZE
ME , PROPERLY , OR ELSE BE MURDERED/RAPTURED IN THE MOST HORRIFIC WAYS IMAGINEABLE , AND THEN ,AS IF THAT WERE NOT ENOUGH, WE WILL TORUTRE YOUR SOUL FOR A ETERNITY.

I understand my beliefs, may irritate many, but my beliefs do not dictate that I should verbally condemn any person to a eternity of pain, in hell, for not agreeing with me.
 
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Isnt it a bit obtuse, that the divine God, who knows everything and wanted all his human creations to worship the 1 correct god/ religion, also created religious texts and biblical commands/ phrasings , that are so vague or misworded , that each individual can interpret it in completely different way ?

Seems to me, that this God, liked to confuse people , or his original words/ commands have been severely mutated over eons, to the point that no one on earth can truly know for sure what many of those altered religious words/ biblical phrases mean.

Convoluted religions surely help to keep the human race , in the dark and divided.

We can take 100 random religious people. lock them in a room together, have them read the bible verses, and they would all greatly disagree on the meanings of many of those verses.
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions.Proverbs 18:2