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Uglytruth

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I can only think of the "unseen".......... if all the money paid into SS on your behalf was put into your pocket, even if you had used a portion to buy long term disability insurance, your home loan may have been only 10 years not 30. You may have paid cash for your cars & deprived the banksters of their blood money. Never had any credit card debt. No student loans. Lived a better life. Started your own business.

I do agree with the video of not having all your eggs in one basket but in todays world we know the direction the dollar is heading we just don't know when but it is long overdue.

Face it ss is just another .gov tax. Kick the can down the road because they blew all the money. What a mess they have created.
 

Fatrat

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I thought I was going out at 62, but started having health concerns, so I kept working for health insurance...I might start drawing even if I keep working.
 

the_shootist

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I can only think of the "unseen".......... if all the money paid into SS on your behalf was put into your pocket, even if you had used a portion to buy long term disability insurance, your home loan may have been only 10 years not 30. You may have paid cash for your cars & deprived the banksters of their blood money. Never had any credit card debt. No student loans. Lived a better life. Started your own business.

I do agree with the video of not having all your eggs in one basket but in todays world we know the direction the dollar is heading we just don't know when but it is long overdue.

Face it ss is just another .gov tax. Kick the can down the road because they blew all the money. What a mess they have created.
The only good politician is a dead one, second best is one in jail . None of them can be trusted to take out the trash, let alone asking them to handle our money and make laws
 
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Unca Walt

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Face it ss is just another .gov tax. Kick the can down the road because they blew all the money. What a mess they have created.
I will never forget the time I received my first paycheck. I was 16, working in a print shop. There was a $2 deduction from my minuscule gross pay. I was shocked and angered. I didn't understand even what FICA meant.

NOBODY told me they were going to just take over an hour's worth of pay. I never agreed to anything like that. Ever.

Some people have said, "you did not have to opt in" <-- That is monkeyshit.

And to give you perspective, the price of gold was $35 per ounce!! So the surprise tax on the young kid amounted to -- in today's money --

$106.57 <-- Here is the math: $2 was the exact equivalent of 17.5% of $35. Gold today is $1,865

Take 17.5% of $1,865 and you get taxed at $106.57 PER WEEK. And you do not get a penny back for nearly fifty years!

So I really would take issue with the others that say they used to take out SS tax at a lower rate. Bullshit, says the math.
 

gringott

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Thing to consider, most here do of course:
The Time Value of Money.

My SS record was adjusted years ago for my early military service, best I can tell they (Army) were not contributing the correct amount. Fair Enough.

Work for peanuts and hand over the cash your entire working life. The overlords will decide what you get in the end.

Then they make you a zero by killing you using a computer database entry. Now prove you are alive.

Been there, done that, have the letter to my survivors. Fuck those ghouls.
Took it as fast as possible.

In the NWO, they can do the same to anyone (make you dead) and you won't be able to do anything like bank account, get your investments, purchase anything etc. After all you are dead so they can put a lock on your everything. Potentially, you might vote for the wrong party or something crazy like that after you are dead by government decree.

I smell means testing coming down the highway, I'm liquidating and gonna have a hellava blow out, after that, means testing will mean I get instead of I give. That might of course hurt my Social Credit Score. ;-/.

We all will be equal in the future. All broke.
 

Hystckndle

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nope, just wanted to make sure people were aware is all,

they can choose to use it or not,

that is on them, not you

if what you say is accurate, which of course it would be, then leave it up for those that want to use it IMO

10-4
You got a good point, 3rd party.
Totally get that.
And some of them, and any site for that matter, that required any info other than just data entry... I don t use.
They wanna troll you. And there is 100s of them.
Theres so many so called "calculators" out there you cannot count them.
I have looked at maybe 20 ...lost count....same stuff regurgitated.

I have been a "member " of the dot gov website there for 10 years,
some of those old posts by FF and BB got me looking into it.
The issue for me when that dot gov site got going was there was less info on it on how they calculated the so called payouts.
So I tried to find other stuff.
And I did the math myself with a ten key ( hey , there is that ten key word again )
It looks like the closer to 62 you are the more accurate ANY of them are.
Cuz they use the first eligibility date as a time when the factor reached a 1.0
But they have added a LOT of new intel to their site.

SS got gov site uses AIME

And again, repeating myself as I do a lot here,
is what occurred to me a few months ago from looking at and doing their math
and going back and forth and back and forth
is that another 2, 3 , 4, five years of working for " the man " vs
another 2, 3 ,4 five years of NOT working for " the man "
ONLY AFFECTED OR WILL AFFECT MY SS PAYOUT BY 20 or 50 DOLLARS S MONTH in the future
In other words...
lard arse here is already " paid up " as far as they are concerned,
but they will gladly take all of my money work in the FRN system to pay out to others as they see fit.

This shite is kinda just like a GPA ...hard work UP FRONT on the 35 years they average is the key.
Does not matter as much what you are doing now in 2021, 2022, 2023 for some of us who have been at it for 40 years.
And ANY work going forward and paying into the SS system is really mostly going to support OTHERS in the system
( Don't start with me on the ILLegals or immigrants etc getting benefits but follow along with me...lol )

THAT realization....was a total mind bender for the Haystack.
IOW...the decision is NOT how much longer to work ---- because they had indexed me to the max really.
But now when and IF to apply, the work and paying in...95% of it or more...already done.
Busting my arse and thinking my SS might be a larger if I " just hang in there a few more years "
just ain't the way the math works.
At least in my case.
But THAT is an item that they surely don't want millions of folks to realize.
And furthermore ( and I will shut up )
ALL the kids NOT getting a job, anything, and paying in as soon as possible and getting the factoring started ASAP in life,
IMHO, are f ing up if they ever intend of course to get any so called benefit from the system whatsoever.
But that is another Haystack diatribe. LOL

Apologize for carrying on. Crane is late. I am bored.
Regards to all,
 
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gringott

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Spot on Hystckndle.
 

engineear

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Thing to consider, most here do of course:
The Time Value of Money.

My SS record was adjusted years ago for my early military service, best I can tell they (Army) were not contributing the correct amount. Fair Enough.

Work for peanuts and hand over the cash your entire working life. The overlords will decide what you get in the end.

Then they make you a zero by killing you using a computer database entry. Now prove you are alive.

Been there, done that, have the letter to my survivors. Fuck those ghouls.
Took it as fast as possible.

In the NWO, they can do the same to anyone (make you dead) and you won't be able to do anything like bank account, get your investments, purchase anything etc. After all you are dead so they can put a lock on your everything. Potentially, you might vote for the wrong party or something crazy like that after you are dead by government decree.

I smell means testing coming down the highway, I'm liquidating and gonna have a hellava blow out, after that, means testing will mean I get instead of I give. That might of course hurt my Social Credit Score. ;-/.

We all will be equal in the future. All broke.
In a very deep baritone...sing along with me..

Swing low, sweet chariot...comin' forth to carry me home..
Swing low, sweet chariot...comin' forth to carry me home...

Lookin' to the mountain top and what did I see...comin' forth to carry me home
A group of IRS agents in a big SUV...comin' forth to clean out my home.
 

BigJim#1-8

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gringott

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In a very deep baritone...sing along with me..

Swing low, sweet chariot...comin' forth to carry me home..
Swing low, sweet chariot...comin' forth to carry me home...

Lookin' to the mountain top and what did I see...comin' forth to carry me home
A group of IRS agents in a big SUV...comin' forth to clean out my home.


My guide to investing is above, 2021 edition.

"I wish I had nice things, but I don't Mr. IRSagent. It is all junk with next to zero cash value. Sorry."
 

BigJim#1-8

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My wife is convinced the starting age changes the later you were born so I'm not sure if I can start at 62 or if I have to wait until 65.

I plan of retiring ASAP. I'm already skilled at being poor and I'm too busy to waste any more time at work.



.
Brother Irons,
I believe the starting age change is for medicare eligibility, SS you can collect @ 62. I could be wrong.
 

gringott

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1636820928927.png
 

gringott

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Part of one copay. Fantastic!

m00000ooooooo00000000!
 

newmisty

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Irons

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what a wonderful way to put it,

be out in 7,

out of slavery,
out of the make food work powered enterprise,
out of 'I have to do time' today

etc.

be out in 7

like a really long prison sentence,
I realize some people have careers that make them happy and pay them a lot of money and they find satisfaction and purpose in their work.
That's great, I had that too but it all ended back in 2007 when politicians sold my way of life to the globalists.

So now I have a meaningless shit job that pays shit wages with shit benefits. If they piss me off I walk out of that one and into the same shit at a different location and get the same shit experience for the same shit wages. They pretend I'm a valued employee and I pretend to be impressed.

So yeah, not exactly prison but on the scale of importance in my life "work" doesn't make the top 10. The nice thing about not earning shit is I can do it anywhere so the whole finding another job thing is stress free.


.
 

Scorpio

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Crane is late.

probably stopped by the po po and scaling his ass

just for giggles and a little for the collection plate

your blinker fluid is low, that fine will be $1600

thank you for your service
 

tigerwillow1

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I will never forget the time I received my first paycheck. I was 16, working in a print shop. There was a $2 deduction from my minuscule gross pay. I was shocked and angered. I didn't understand even what FICA meant.
Off topic for the thread but on-topic for this sentence. On my first payday at age 16 in a food store, I got nothing but pocket change. Most of my after tax money went to the mandatory union initiation fee which I knew nothing about. The union dues were ongoing of course. Just a smaller version of the government in action.
 

newmisty

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Off topic for the thread but on-topic for this sentence. On my first payday at age 16 in a food store, I got nothing but pocket change. Most of my after tax money went to the mandatory union initiation fee which I knew nothing about. The union dues were ongoing of course. Just a smaller version of the government in action.
Better be a hell of an "initiation"!
 

Casey Jones

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Better be a hell of an "initiation"!
Nope.

At one union shop I worked at, covered by CWA...had heavy "Initiation Dues." A couple hundred dollars.

All it was, was "initiation." Meaning, initial fees. For all the service they'd render (NOT!).

Used to be commonplace. Now I guess it's less so...but then, now, most unionized workplaces are government offices.
 

edsl48

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Off topic for the thread but on-topic for this sentence. On my first payday at age 16 in a food store, I got nothing but pocket change. Most of my after tax money went to the mandatory union initiation fee which I knew nothing about. The union dues were ongoing of course. Just a smaller version of the government in action.
FICA = Federal Insurance Contribution Act
FDR sold his great ponzi scheme as an insurance plan. Some years later the Courts declared it a tax so now, as we know, it is just another tax and spend program that has been expanded to cover assorted people that never paid in to the system. For years the monthly benefits were never taxed until 1983 after a Senate vote where Al Gore cast the deciding vote as Senate president to make it taxable. See...once again the Democrats tax your pay to grab the money and then later on when you collect the benefits you supposedly paid for they tax you again on it. Sort of a tax on a tax depending on how you look at it. The wonders of the Democrat party that looks out for the blue collar working person...
 

Hystckndle

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I realize some people have careers that make them happy and pay them a lot of money and they find satisfaction and purpose in their work.
That's great, I had that too but it all ended back in 2007 when politicians sold my way of life to the globalists.

So now I have a meaningless shit job that pays shit wages with shit benefits. If they piss me off I walk out of that one and into the same shit at a different location and get the same shit experience for the same shit wages. They pretend I'm a valued employee and I pretend to be impressed.

So yeah, not exactly prison but on the scale of importance in my life "work" doesn't make the top 10. The nice thing about not earning shit is I can do it anywhere so the whole finding another job thing is stress free.


.

Hey Irons,
Sir, don t sell yourself short Kemo Sabe'..... just sayin'
You working like a madman for many years prior to what you speak of is in the FRN system
and tracked.
If you poke around on the dot gov website you might be surprised,
regardless, it is a learning and planning tool.
Here is one of the positives...if you LOOK poorish on paper...as in low income,
your taxes are down in the gutter AND if you are younger than 65 that looks really good for any kind of Obamacare
action.
Tax avoidance going forward IMHO is gonna be a key element and imma thinking they are gonna go after all kinds of
stuff that ain't been taxed yet.
Me ? ......I see you in an admirable position of sorts.
Regards ,
 

Hystckndle

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ANNND...
" Full " benefit amounts go UP if filing is delayed past age 67.
+- 8% a year plus COLA.
Each and every year until age 70 when it caps out.
"Full benefit" age IMO really means there is NO penalty for making any amount of taxable wages
if you wanna work and make as much mula as you can....no deductions or penalties.
Before that...they mess with you...which IMO is retarded but who the f am I to say ?
Pemalties for your SS IF you work and make above XYZ a year.
I have a mental block with that....but it is what it is.
( only folks who can legally double dip is dot gov people, you know that is only fair...being public servants and all ...sarc )
Jury still out but deferment for either yourself or the wife unit after you are gone if she doesn't work or have SS herself is
math option.
I get the whole BEP charts posted above and all I am just really wanting to preserve the wife unit and her future.
Yeah, the BEP thing is indeed the roulette wheel and who know when the hand of the creator is gonna reach out to you.
All pretty interesting.
Allll good

P.S. Nice pics posted today G...forget which thread.
Regards,
 

Irons

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Hey Irons,

You working like a madman for many years prior to what you speak of is in the FRN system
and tracked.


Unfortunately I spent it all on fancy cars, hookers, blow and leaky boats and have little to show for it now. Sigh.


TDS.jpg
 

ttazzman

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im a 1960er retired 10yrs ago.....will start trying to get some of my $ back from SS at the earliest possible moment i can only hope to get about 30yrs of max pay in back......about 1 more year to go.........as someone said hopefully in before they change the rules again and rule changes are not going to be beneficial to the recipient

i have not pondered even for a moment when i would start trying to get my money back
 

Fiat Metaler

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what occurred to me a few months ago from looking at and doing their math
and going back and forth and back and forth
is that another 2, 3 , 4, five years of working for " the man " vs
another 2, 3 ,4 five years of NOT working for " the man "
ONLY AFFECTED OR WILL AFFECT MY SS PAYOUT BY 20 or 50 DOLLARS S MONTH in the future
In other words...
lard arse here is already " paid up " as far as they are concerned,
but they will gladly take all of my money work in the FRN system to pay out to others as they see fit.

This shite is kinda just like a GPA ...hard work UP FRONT on the 35 years they average is the key.
Does not matter as much what you are doing now in 2021, 2022, 2023 for some of us who have been at it for 40 years.
And ANY work going forward and paying into the SS system is really mostly going to support OTHERS in the system
( Don't start with me on the ILLegals or immigrants etc getting benefits but follow along with me...lol )

Completely agree.

To elaborate, I think they use a 30 year average. They might even weight heaviliy your highest 10 years. But even if one year goes up they are averaging so many years of pay that it doesn't really move the needle.

The only exception would be if you had only worked for 10 years; getting some additional quarters in the books might have a decent effect.
 

Scorpio

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Stack and Fiat,

Some time ago I had heard they use the last 10 years to base the calcs on,

What you guys are stating is something altogether different,
and if what you are stating is accurate, then 1 year cannot really make a difference on the overall future amount,

the fellas under 50 can still make some change to the overall by increasing their gross over the next 15, but the guys in the long end of 50's or over 60 are pretty much relegated to their past at this point

Unless of course they have a blow out year with chitcoin and drop a million or 2 on taxable income,

so there is your strategy,
go all in on chitcoin, roll the friggin' dice boyz,
sell everything, dump it all on crypto, then sell by end of year
its a gonna make your welfare check bigger when you do go

giddy on up
 

Hystckndle

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Stack and Fiat,

Some time ago I had heard they use the last 10 years to base the calcs on,

What you guys are stating is something altogether different,
and if what you are stating is accurate, then 1 year cannot really make a difference on the overall future amount,

the fellas under 50 can still make some change to the overall by increasing their gross over the next 15, but the guys in the long end of 50's or over 60 are pretty much relegated to their past at this point

Unless of course they have a blow out year with chitcoin and drop a million or 2 on taxable income,

so there is your strategy,
go all in on chitcoin, roll the friggin' dice boyz,
sell everything, dump it all on crypto, then sell by end of year
its a gonna make your welfare check bigger when you do go

giddy on up

Above is correct, as far as I am understanding it.
RE: Certain folks were beating me up a bit as I started my own consulting LLC in 2007 and I was not
paying myself on paper a whole lot.
It was stated I was screwing myself over on future SS $ and I neede to " join the corporation " .
But having been HOSED by a few said corporations...was not so keen at the time.
( they were also assuming they were that I was a " believer in so called retirement )

Got to looking at it.
PDF file attached from SSA dot gov site. VERY informative to what I am trying to say.
Top 35 years of earnings, no matter where they occur in your so called working lifetime is the way I understand it
AIME ( Average Indexed Monthly Earnings )
Agree with your statement about age differential and makeup time.
I think it clocks you out of the factoring at 60 or so.
It is like the GPA analogy I used.
It reminds me of the old adage:
" Come winter...we will know what you have been doing all summer "
To me...yup...a lot to be said for that here.

Read some stuff, watched a few vids of guys actually doing the math on a whiteboard.
( Could post that I suppose, NOT exactly exciting material )
Did some math on a ten key....said " I will be darned "
Did the cut and paste on the linky posted yesterday.

Big realization in my pea brain after that.


Another site posted here for years for info


Regards to all,
Haystack
 

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Hystckndle

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I emulated this guys spreadsheet,
Note how the indexing works.
IMHO the running out of GAS ( both energy and give a shite ) at the age of Haystack ( 60 ) is kind of already factored
into their set up.

I get irritated at watching the guy on his own 10 key :)
but it assisted me with learning about the so called bend points etc etc etc
Point of our whole thing is " a lot of years of earnings " may already be under your belt and the earlier years are factored
to get the AIME....which is how they base your monthly $.
Even goose eggs at the end does not mess with you IF you have been doing the " GIT ER DONE " stuff since
you were 11 or 12.
I ain t the expert at all mind you.
Just saying it REALLY helped me to understand it.
Back later,
" on the move "

 

gringott

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I stopped working at 58, collected at 62. I am sure that 4 years of zero income lowered my SS take home.
But there is no way I was going to work to get more from the payroll thieves.
Fuck them.
 

Hystckndle

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I stopped working at 58, collected at 62. I am sure that 4 years of zero income lowered my SS take home.
But there is no way I was going to work to get more from the payroll thieves.
Fuck them.

Not necessarily.
( except the last sentence )
I have done the calcs by hand.
Depends on where you started to get the 35 in.
Goose eggs at the end or in between in many cases have little effect.
Especially at 58.
Just sayin '
 

gringott

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First tax reported by SSN earnings at 16. Everything was cash basis only before that time.
Gaps in tax collections while outside the US tax farm over the years while a civilian.

I had a few very high income years, way back when, but those were the days that had a limit I reached on obligation, I maxed and the rest was SS tax free.
Also many years of very low income as to taxed by SS.
 

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FICA = Federal Insurance Contribution Act
FDR sold his great ponzi scheme as an insurance plan.... The wonders of the Democrat party that looks out for the blue collar working person...
They are FOR The People, ya know.
 

Goldbrix

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I stopped working at 58, collected at 62. I am sure that 4 years of zero income lowered my SS take home.
But there is no way I was going to work to get more from the payroll thieves.
Fuck them.
You must have started young enough that you got all your "Quarters IN". Those last four years probably kept a couple of bucks in their coffers, but not much.
FYI, When I started getting the local kiddies across the street and controlling the traffic onto the school property my SS check goes up about two bucks each year ( Not COLA) as they "revise" my income.
I'm Rollin' in Gas Money. Fortunately I don't have to roll far.
 

Uglytruth

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So now I have a meaningless shit job that pays shit wages with shit benefits.
That is all many have today with little skills, motivation or education. That is why so many can flip burgers at Mickey D's, BK, Wendys or whatever. No need to be loyal as it gets you nothing. At extra $0.50 an hour might take you 2 years to get by staying at the old place.

Tax avoidance going forward IMHO is gonna be a key element and imma thinking they are gonna go after all kinds of
stuff that ain't been taxed yet.
Digital will take care of all of that for the "little people".


With "safe" savings at 0.?% even if you had 1M in savings your going to consume your money when you thought at 5-7% you could leave a nice inheritance to the heir's. Remember you will own nothing & be drugged until you are happy.

To me the real question is what happens top my FRN's when they force digital? Means testing? Expire? Low social score locks me out of society. Can't buy more than 10 miles from home? Body Mass Index is to high and can't buy an ice cream or unapproved snack? Every garage sale is taxed as income?
 

Hystckndle

SWEATEQUITYIS$$$
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First tax reported by SSN earnings at 16. Everything was cash basis only before that time.
Gaps in tax collections while outside the US tax farm over the years while a civilian.

I had a few very high income years, way back when, but those were the days that had a limit I reached on obligation, I maxed and the rest was SS tax free.
Also many years of very low income as to taxed by SS.

10 4. I am right there with you at with reported earnings over 100.....lol
at 11 it was like 57 or so. All else with the Toro I had painted racing strips on with some old rustoleum.
I have read your posts for many many ( did I say many ) years.
You are most excellent at dealing with the so called system.
I found that the high wage earnings were no so much a factor in their calcs as was the steady eddy.