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Lancers32

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I did not take early at 62 because I was still working. I went through the numbers for myself and my break even age if I started at 62 would have been 83.
 

Goldbrix

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I recall SCOUTs being made in Mexico for a time, a few years but not many.
 

Casey Jones

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the slaves need wage growth to keep the dream alive,
giving them a wage then turning around and taking it through price inflation of goods = a net negative for them
That's only going to work for a short time. People will soon see, those "increases" are meaningless.

I lived through Carternomics and Stagflation. Surely you did, too...but I was on the ground floor, 19 years old or so, paid to work a shovel. And all my "associates."

We were not impressed with the yearly increase in wages, tied to the Carter jump in the Minimum Wage. Even though it went from $2.30 in 1976 to $3.35 in 1979. That's a 30-percent increase - and we were FAR worse off.

That's why Reagan had support even from people in my social stratum of the time. We'd had enough of the Numbers Game.

Now we have to relearn it all, I guess. The energy-sapping, morale-destroying effect of inflation.
 

Casey Jones

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I recall SCOUTs being made in Mexico for a time, a few years but not many.
No offense intended, but I believe you're mistaken.

Mexico was a closed auto market from about 1955, on until NAFTA. All autos sold had to have a high domestic content (forget how it was figured; but it was a high percent). That's why VW put up their Puebla plant, back then...still running.

Willys-Overland set up a plant to make Jeeps...with the Mexican government a minority partner. The Mexican operation was a subsidiary. Later, with Kaiser Industries taking over Willys, Kaiser was shifting its focus. It sold the Mexican subsidiary to the government, entirely, and licensed Jeep manufacture. The company was called VAM...an acronym for the Spanish for "Vehicles Automotive Mexico."

When AMC bought Kaiser-Jeep out, AMC offered VAM licensing on its cars. VAM went for it, and for decades, the only two makes of cars you'd see in Mexico in large numbers were, VWs and AMC clones.

But as best I know, IH was never in there. There might have been a small number imported, with high duties; but not many. And again, as best I know, in my pedestrian readings...Harvester didn't have a Mexican plant. Maybe one in Columbia or Brazil, but not Mexico.
 

Goldbrix

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No Worries. Hell I've been wrong before. YOU CAN BELIEVE THAT!
 

TAEZZAR

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meaning, it now takes 2 to play at those wages,
both husbant and wifey work = $72k per year
AND THAT, RIGHT THERE !!!
That was the initial design to get the children out of the home & into government indoctrination centers. Next came busing & meals.
The children became dependent on gov.
I watched all of this happen !! :Grrr: :Grrr: :Grrr: :Grrr: :Grrr: :totally steamed: :totally steamed: :totally steamed:
 

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you sumbunches are more wrong than right............

old farts anyway
 

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Well at least we are consistant.
 

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Goldbrix

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What do you expect from "...more wrong than right" ( geesh!):reading:
 

Uglytruth

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OK. So what I got out of this is take it at 62 even if you are still working & they take about half back but give you a bump up when you quit working. Unless you are trying to maximize it for a spouse.
 

Irons

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Unless you are trying to maximize it for a spouse.
If I'm pushing up daisies and my spouse doesn't know where to look for the invisible $$ it's her own damn fault for not paying attention.




.
aaroll.gif
 

TAEZZAR

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edsl48

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To add to the above

The Fed’s Artificially Low Interest Rates Are Eating Away at Social Security​


NOVEMBER 18, 2021 BY SCHIFFGOLD 0 0
The Federal Reserve has held interest rates artificially low for decades. This causes all kinds of distortions and misallocations in the economy.

And it’s creating quite a problem for the Social Security Administration.

The Social Security Trust Fund, also known as the Old-Age and Survivors Insurance (OASI) Trust Fund, closed fiscal 2021 with a balance of $2.76 trillion. That was down by 2.0% from a year earlier. It was the second annual decline of Trust Fun since 1990. The first occurred in 2018.

The fund balance had strong growth through the 1990s and early 2000s, but began to plateau after the 2008 financial crisis and Great Recession.

US-Social-Security-Trust-Fund-balances-2021-11-11-fiscal-year.png


So, what is causing this dropoff in funding?

OASI invests exclusively in US Treasury securities. It primarily holds what are known as interest-bearing long-term special-issue Treasury securities. The Trust Fund purchases these instruments at face value, and the US Treasury redeems them at face value. The interest from these investments, along with Social Security taxes, funds OASI.

The trust fund is being hit with a double-whammy.

Payroll taxes are down. According to the 2021 Trustees Report, 55 million people drew Social Security retirement benefits at the end of 2020. That same year, 175 million people paid into Social Security via payroll taxes. That was down by 3 million from 2019. Changing demographics will likely continue to shrink payroll taxes unless Congress raises rates.

But the drop in payroll taxes is just one part of the problem. The other issue is Fed interest rate suppression. OASI’s investment in Treasury securities isn’t kicking out enough interest to keep up with the fund’s outflows.

According to WolfStreet, the weighted average interest rate earned on the securities in the Trust Fund dropped to 2.40% in September. Before the 2008 Financial Crisis, the Fund was earning over 5%.

In fact, the average interest earned by the trust fund has been dropping since the 1990s. Cooling inflation in the 80s naturally pushed rates lower. But things really got hinky when the Fed started artificially driving down interest rates to “stimulate” the economy. In the midst of a mild recession in the early 90s, Alan Greenspan began cutting interest rates. This ultimately blew up the dot-com bubble. When it burst, the Fed cut rates again. With each subsequent crisis, the central bank pushed rates lower and during each recovery, rates failed returned to the previous level. After pushing rates to zero in the wake of the 2008 financial crisis, “normalization” only managed to raise rates to 2.5% — hardly “normal.” The central bank began cutting rates in 2019, even before the coronavirus pandemic.

In effect, we have a downward ratchet effect on interest rates, and that is steadily eroding away interest income for OASI.

According to WolfStreet, despite the 13% growth of the Trust Fund assets since 2010, annual interest income has dropped by 35%, from $108.5 billion in 2010 to $70.5 billion in 2021. And the latest round of interest rate suppression is just starting to enter the pipeline.

The Fed’s interest rate repression since March 2020 is just starting to be reflected in the Trust Fund’s average interest rate and will hound it for years to come, even if long-term interest rates rise.”
As interest income continues to decline, at some point Congres will have to raise Social Security taxes, or benefits will get trimmed, or both.

The Social Security fund is in trouble. It was always inevitable that it would be. Ponzi schemes are unsustainable by their very nature. But the Fed’s artificially low interest rates are exacerbating the problem. A normal interest rate environment wouldn’t likely fix Social Security, but it would help stem the bleeding.

 

tigerwillow1

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I find this article very telling and very silly at the same time, about the point of artificially suppressed interest rates being one of two major reasons for the trust fund going broke.

In other words, the pretend/paper trust fund that the government has already spent is also being depleted on paper by the government. Money that the government should have sent to the trust fund was instead spent by the government. But if the government had sent it to the trust fund they would have spent it anyway. There's enough hocus pocus here to make my head explode. The only long term effect I see is another argument for more taxes down the road, with the fund balance and interest rate discussion being an interesting but meaningless distraction. If somebody else has a better understanding, let me in on it.

In hindsight, our big mistake was not electing Al Gore who promised to put the trust fund in a lockbox. Had we been smart enough to do that we would have had the double win of no money problems and no climate crisis. We had the chance and blew it!

:hang:
 

Uglytruth

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Good thing it's not because they are paying illegals is it?
 

Scorpio

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Have a frustration that I will put here,

The whole way they handle spousal payments.

Many times, the persons collecting now are of an age where one worked out of home, and the other chose to make a home, raise kids, and so on.

In many cases these mostly women were wives of farmers. Where the old man didn't really pay that much into SS over the years, as SS income was determined after all expenses, or at net income.

They come to retirement and the check doesn't amount to much as the math won't allow it. Then he dies off, and you now have the spouse getting a lowered rate based off that low number.

This results in these gals getting checks of the $3-400 per month range.

Now you tell me, how in the heck can you do anything with 3-400 per month?

While this occurs all over the US, people in the cesspools of cities are pulling home tax credits, EBT cards, stimmies and all the rest amounting to thousands per year. And they haven't had a productive day in their whole lives.

Whereas this farmer and his gal have been producing, feeding the populace, and raising mini slaves for future tax payers.

Why are these gals left behind in these discussions regarding the structure of the system?

Now sure, in modern society, people look at farmers as corporate farmers, hundreds if not thousands of acres. Massive expenditures on equipment and other.

Yet that is not what we are speaking to. We are speaking to an age where there actually were family farms. Where persons would scrape out a living milking some cows and growing some grains on 100 acres or so, with the larger being a few hundred acres.
 

Unca Walt

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Have a frustration that I will put here,

The whole way they handle spousal payments.

Many times, the persons collecting now are of an age where one worked out of home, and the other chose to make a home, raise kids, and so on.

In many cases these mostly women were wives of farmers. Where the old man didn't really pay that much into SS over the years, as SS income was determined after all expenses, or at net income.

They come to retirement and the check doesn't amount to much as the math won't allow it. Then he dies off, and you now have the spouse getting a lowered rate based off that low number.

This results in these gals getting checks of the $3-400 per month range.

Now you tell me, how in the heck can you do anything with 3-400 per month?

While this occurs all over the US, people in the cesspools of cities are pulling home tax credits, EBT cards, stimmies and all the rest amounting to thousands per year. And they haven't had a productive day in their whole lives.

Whereas this farmer and his gal have been producing, feeding the populace, and raising mini slaves for future tax payers.

Why are these gals left behind in these discussions regarding the structure of the system?

Now sure, in modern society, people look at farmers as corporate farmers, hundreds if not thousands of acres. Massive expenditures on equipment and other.

Yet that is not what we are speaking to. We are speaking to an age where there actually were family farms. Where persons would scrape out a living milking some cows and growing some grains on 100 acres or so, with the larger being a few hundred acres.
Crikey. I never knew about that disproportionate screwing. This country -- as we knew it -- is lost.

The ONLY way to truly maximize SS is to do it like I did: Retire at 58, with my company paying the difference between my retirement pay and what I would get in SS at age 61. The company paid that diff until the full SS kicked in.

Now here is the SECRET: You must do two things --

1. Do this starting 23 years ago.

2. Refuse to DIE. I will be 81 tomorrow.

Any other plan is without merit, since the USD is not gonna be around long enough for anyone to get even a fraction of their payments back. Frankly, folks in their late fifties are so fargin screwed. It ain't fair.

It really isn't.
 

Uglytruth

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Have a frustration that I will put here,

The whole way they handle spousal payments.

Many times, the persons collecting now are of an age where one worked out of home, and the other chose to make a home, raise kids, and so on.

In many cases these mostly women were wives of farmers. Where the old man didn't really pay that much into SS over the years, as SS income was determined after all expenses, or at net income.

They come to retirement and the check doesn't amount to much as the math won't allow it. Then he dies off, and you now have the spouse getting a lowered rate based off that low number.

This results in these gals getting checks of the $3-400 per month range.

Now you tell me, how in the heck can you do anything with 3-400 per month?

While this occurs all over the US, people in the cesspools of cities are pulling home tax credits, EBT cards, stimmies and all the rest amounting to thousands per year. And they haven't had a productive day in their whole lives.

Whereas this farmer and his gal have been producing, feeding the populace, and raising mini slaves for future tax payers.

Why are these gals left behind in these discussions regarding the structure of the system?

Now sure, in modern society, people look at farmers as corporate farmers, hundreds if not thousands of acres. Massive expenditures on equipment and other.

Yet that is not what we are speaking to. We are speaking to an age where there actually were family farms. Where persons would scrape out a living milking some cows and growing some grains on 100 acres or so, with the larger being a few hundred acres.
Just an example.
Many people were very conservative. Lets say Grandpa & Grandma saved all their lives & were able to acquire 12 monthly CD's. Many had a multiple of $10,000 cd's or 15k or 20k or whatever. So for this example 12 10K cd's or 120K total. Paying 7%. Grandma was getting $700 a month and able to pay her bills along with her SS. Lower rates to zero & grandma is now having to take 7-800 a month out to help cover for inflation.

Most all of these scams always seem to favor the banksters and work against Grandma.
 

TAEZZAR

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To add to the above

The Fed’s Artificially Low Interest Rates Are Eating Away at Social Security​


NOVEMBER 18, 2021 BY SCHIFFGOLD 0 0
The Federal Reserve has held interest rates artificially low for decades. This causes all kinds of distortions and misallocations in the economy.

And it’s creating quite a problem for the Social Security Administration.

The Social Security Trust Fund, also known as the Old-Age and Survivors Insurance (OASI) Trust Fund, closed fiscal 2021 with a balance of $2.76 trillion. That was down by 2.0% from a year earlier. It was the second annual decline of Trust Fun since 1990. The first occurred in 2018.

The fund balance had strong growth through the 1990s and early 2000s, but began to plateau after the 2008 financial crisis and Great Recession.

US-Social-Security-Trust-Fund-balances-2021-11-11-fiscal-year.png


So, what is causing this dropoff in funding?

OASI invests exclusively in US Treasury securities. It primarily holds what are known as interest-bearing long-term special-issue Treasury securities. The Trust Fund purchases these instruments at face value, and the US Treasury redeems them at face value. The interest from these investments, along with Social Security taxes, funds OASI.

The trust fund is being hit with a double-whammy.

Payroll taxes are down. According to the 2021 Trustees Report, 55 million people drew Social Security retirement benefits at the end of 2020. That same year, 175 million people paid into Social Security via payroll taxes. That was down by 3 million from 2019. Changing demographics will likely continue to shrink payroll taxes unless Congress raises rates.

But the drop in payroll taxes is just one part of the problem. The other issue is Fed interest rate suppression. OASI’s investment in Treasury securities isn’t kicking out enough interest to keep up with the fund’s outflows.

According to WolfStreet, the weighted average interest rate earned on the securities in the Trust Fund dropped to 2.40% in September. Before the 2008 Financial Crisis, the Fund was earning over 5%.

In fact, the average interest earned by the trust fund has been dropping since the 1990s. Cooling inflation in the 80s naturally pushed rates lower. But things really got hinky when the Fed started artificially driving down interest rates to “stimulate” the economy. In the midst of a mild recession in the early 90s, Alan Greenspan began cutting interest rates. This ultimately blew up the dot-com bubble. When it burst, the Fed cut rates again. With each subsequent crisis, the central bank pushed rates lower and during each recovery, rates failed returned to the previous level. After pushing rates to zero in the wake of the 2008 financial crisis, “normalization” only managed to raise rates to 2.5% — hardly “normal.” The central bank began cutting rates in 2019, even before the coronavirus pandemic.

In effect, we have a downward ratchet effect on interest rates, and that is steadily eroding away interest income for OASI.

According to WolfStreet, despite the 13% growth of the Trust Fund assets since 2010, annual interest income has dropped by 35%, from $108.5 billion in 2010 to $70.5 billion in 2021. And the latest round of interest rate suppression is just starting to enter the pipeline.


As interest income continues to decline, at some point Congres will have to raise Social Security taxes, or benefits will get trimmed, or both.

The Social Security fund is in trouble. It was always inevitable that it would be. Ponzi schemes are unsustainable by their very nature. But the Fed’s artificially low interest rates are exacerbating the problem. A normal interest rate environment wouldn’t likely fix Social Security, but it would help stem the bleeding.

The SS card has been bastardized from this:

SS CARD.png
 

Goldbrix

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tigerwillow1

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In many cases these mostly women were wives of farmers. Where the old man didn't really pay that much into SS over the years, as SS income was determined after all expenses, or at net income.
Without meaning to disagree with your big picture observation, there is a pretty high rate of progressiveness built into the benefit formula. With rounded off current numbers, the first 12K of annual income is counted 6x more than income over 36K. You have to go from 12K income to 40K to double the 12K benefit. According to an online calculator the benefit at 12K annual earnings is 23% of the benefit at the maximum ~143K annual earnings. 23% of the benefit for 8.4% of the counted income.
 

BeefJerky

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If it was an equitable distribution there would be no need for the system and people could just watch the unprepared starve in the streets. Personally I don't have a problem with it. There are way to many other thefts by government that are obscured by the serfs fighting each other over this scam.
 

Tbonz

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Crikey. I never knew about that disproportionate screwing. This country -- as we knew it -- is lost.

The ONLY way to truly maximize SS is to do it like I did: Retire at 58, with my company paying the difference between my retirement pay and what I would get in SS at age 61. The company paid that diff until the full SS kicked in.

Now here is the SECRET: You must do two things --

1. Do this starting 23 years ago.

2. Refuse to DIE. I will be 81 tomorrow.

Any other plan is without merit, since the USD is not gonna be around long enough for anyone to get even a fraction of their payments back. Frankly, folks in their late fifties are so fargin screwed. It ain't fair.

It really isn't.
Happy Birthday Uncle!!!
 

Casey Jones

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Any other plan is without merit, since the USD is not gonna be around long enough for anyone to get even a fraction of their payments back. Frankly, folks in their late fifties are so fargin screwed. It ain't fair.

It really isn't.
We are all screwed.

Including you and me. I know my RR Retirement check won't increase even to the "official" level. Meantime the Medical Tyranny lockdown tightens.

That, will not last. The Jabbed are dying off. But there is no Miracle of Compounded Interest, to save my pension, or you investments.

I am, very-literally, preparing for Armageddon.
 

Hystckndle

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Have a frustration that I will put here,

The whole way they handle spousal payments.

Many times, the persons collecting now are of an age where one worked out of home, and the other chose to make a home, raise kids, and so on.

In many cases these mostly women were wives of farmers. Where the old man didn't really pay that much into SS over the years, as SS income was determined after all expenses, or at net income.

They come to retirement and the check doesn't amount to much as the math won't allow it. Then he dies off, and you now have the spouse getting a lowered rate based off that low number.

This results in these gals getting checks of the $3-400 per month range.

Now you tell me, how in the heck can you do anything with 3-400 per month?

While this occurs all over the US, people in the cesspools of cities are pulling home tax credits, EBT cards, stimmies and all the rest amounting to thousands per year. And they haven't had a productive day in their whole lives.

Whereas this farmer and his gal have been producing, feeding the populace, and raising mini slaves for future tax payers.

Why are these gals left behind in these discussions regarding the structure of the system?

Now sure, in modern society, people look at farmers as corporate farmers, hundreds if not thousands of acres. Massive expenditures on equipment and other.

Yet that is not what we are speaking to. We are speaking to an age where there actually were family farms. Where persons would scrape out a living milking some cows and growing some grains on 100 acres or so, with the larger being a few hundred acres.

Exactly,
My grandfather and grandmother.
And most all of their brothers and sisters etc.
South Mississippi, generations on 100 to 600 acres more or less.
Pick another state, outside of the cities.
Same situation.
Exactly , but I already said that.
 

Goldbrix

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If it was an equitable distribution there would be no need for the system and people could just watch the unprepared starve in the streets. Personally I don't have a problem with it. There are way to many other thefts by government that are obscured by the serfs fighting each other over this scam.
The origination of Soc. Sec. was a promised Retirement for the working class that had no retirement from employment.
Once the progressives started using it as supplements for children of dead working parents, and other welfare supplements the fund / Ponzi began drying up faster with less and less payers for more and more annuitants that were not originally intended.
 

EO 11110

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okay boomer

1638058009317.png
 

Goldbrix

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Future VP and President. I hope my check out time will come before this is in office.
My bet is moms foot the bill for all the ink. I think even a Tatted Dad would have drawn the limits to some of that shit.
 

Uglytruth

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Future VP and President. I hope my check out time will come before this is in office.
My bet is moms foot the bill for all the ink. I think even a Tatted Dad would have drawn the limits to some of that shit.
I can hear them bitch Bobby can't get a job.