I think you mixed it up. Lawful money is easily understood as it is defined somewhere, 371 4/16 grain pure silver (24.1 grams). However fiat money (Federal Reserve Note) is more difficult to understand as it isn't defined anywhere.
![[Most Recent Quotes from www.kitco.com]](http://www.kitconet.com/images/sp_en_6.gif)
Gold and Silver Eagle sales way down YOY
- Thread starter 2014
- Start date
I think you mixed it up. Lawful money is easily understood as it is defined somewhere, 371 4/16 grain pure silver (24.1 grams). However fiat money (Federal Reserve Note) is more difficult to understand as it isn't defined anywhere.
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2010
- Messages
- 1,196
- Reaction score
- 484
I'm no authority on money, Ahillock. Could you tell me where lawful money is defined? I haven't been able to find a definition for it. It is not in the Constitution, nor in the Coinage Act of 1792 that fixed the value of a dollar as "three hundred and seventy-one grains and four sixteenth parts of a grain of pure ... silver". Nor is lawful money defined in any of the later coinage acts that amended the Coinage Act of 1792.
As far as I can tell, there is also no current definition of the dollar. It's not the one dollar FRN, but neither is it still defined as 371 4/16 grains of pure silver.
I still say that fiat money is easier to understand than lawful money. Fiat money is currency with no intrinsic value that has been granted legal tender status by government decree (fiat). Consequently, it can be debased or inflated at the will of the State, usually to the detriment of its citizens and/or other sovereigns.
silverblood, maybe this discussion began because of semantics but gold and silver are lawful money. Fiat is not.
For me lawful money is defined in two places that need to be taken together as one states the substance of lawful money and the other the exact amount. Those two sources are Article I, Section 10, Clause 1 of the USA Constitution. The second document is as you stated, Coinage Act of 1792. Both of those together tell me one USA Dollar is 24.1 grams pure silver or 1.6 grams pure gold. And only gold and silver are lawful money. Nothing else.
That was the definition of lawful money set forth by our founding fathers. What has happened since is the bankers distorting, manipulating and changing that definition IMO.
For me lawful money is defined in two places that need to be taken together as one states the substance of lawful money and the other the exact amount. Those two sources are Article I, Section 10, Clause 1 of the USA Constitution. The second document is as you stated, Coinage Act of 1792. Both of those together tell me one USA Dollar is 24.1 grams pure silver or 1.6 grams pure gold. And only gold and silver are lawful money. Nothing else.
That was the definition of lawful money set forth by our founding fathers. What has happened since is the bankers distorting, manipulating and changing that definition IMO.
3,283,500 oz sold through 3 weeks of March. Still have 6 business day left in this month. Only another 97,500 oz to tie the largest March in the last 5 years. They will probably eclipse that amount on Monday if the trend holds the same.
lol, former GIM resident troll, '2014' is off to greener pastures spewing the same stuff all over. This is the same 2014 who started this thread believing that sales are 'way down YOY' only to keep that same argument up when the data showed the opposite.
Well this may not be the right thread but I try my best in a nutshell. Both the FEDERAL RESERVE and the United States are corporations. Neither are sovereign gov'ts and really have no authority to issue currency. However since the United States has been operating by a de facto gov't (a corporation since 1871) and the people are all willing participants. This de facto replaced the de jure republic (lack of a quorum in the Senate in 1861) that does have the ability to issue lawful money. I
It is to my best understanding that my only way to express my dissent with the foreign controlled corporations in D.C. (the FEDERAL RESERVE and the District itself [territory not state])is to boycott their money whenever it is fiscally prudent. I realize I need FRN's in my daily life and use them under duress. That makes me as unwilling a participant in this de facto regime as I can be.
It would appear that if it is the people of America buying these ASE's, then I believe they are also doing so to. Why isn't gold setting records in sales? The people can't afford gold, they can afford silver.
I didn't start buying silver for this reason. I just wanted to protect my wealth. Yeah making a buck crossed my mind but as I read more about the scandalous things bankers do to control the populous of nations my motives changed. I believe that people in other countries understand our banking system better than our average citizen. They want it that way. They want the stacker to be portrayed as the crazy one and the public are starting to lose trust.
Tell that to the people who bought at $30-$40 range. What you're saying is that if you're lucky enough to buy it at a certain time, then you're good, if not, then you're screwed. If I bought my house in 1985, then I'm still good, if I bought it in 2003, not so much. Given your thinking, then why don't we just buy houses, or any other investment, if it's nothing but a matter of timing. That isn't a store of wealth, which is what PM's pumpers claim, it's nothing more than any other investment....
The point is that they own the system, whether you buy PM's or not, which is what most of yass can't seem to get past. This is no longer an economic question, because demand/supply mean nothing. Rather, it's a political one, who controls and who is controlled. Very childish to think that if you buy PM's, or some land somewhere, or guns, or beans, or whatever, that's what's gonna save you, and ignore the massive power arrayed against you, mainly because you give them that power by not challenging them politically. The price of PM's is showing you that if they want, they can send your stash to zero, and you'll have no recourse.
It isn't about luck. It is about holding long term. Decades. Not months or a few years. Multiple decades. You are the one incorrectly cherry picking time frames, trying to make a failed point, while ignoring the bigger picture. Step back and look at the larger picture. Don't cut down all the trees when the forest is doing just fine.
You purchase a home to live in and raise a family in. It isn't an investment. It isn't a store of wealth. It is a place to live in. Look at the long term.
If you buy multiple houses or real estate properties to speculate and flip to make a profit, then of course buying at the peak of the bubble will bite you. That is why people have been saying RE is in a bubble for some time.
So again you are looking at such a short time spectrum with everything, when you really need to think long term. Holding precious metals is not some game to speculate with and flip for more fiat. Precious metals is true money. True wealth.
One more thing illatease, those of us on here that are serious about this stuff acquire physical slowly but surely and forget about it and have a boating accident some point on our way home with it.
Nope, my ASE's are still worth a dollar. What will the FRN be worth?
Can somebody say 5 million?
No surprise, I suppose keeping the house warm trumps buying silver coins.
No surprise? The US Mint sold out every ASE. They are on allocation. You can't compare January 2014 vs. January 2013 without placing it in the context that January 2014, the Mint had allocations and sold each and everyone that they released for sale. We won't know the true demand until allocation is taken off.
So all indications are the US Mint can't keep ASE's on the shelf and people are buying them up like hot cakes. Buying ASE's and keeping their home warm aren't mutually exclusive.
2013: 3,356,500
2012: 2,542,000
2011: 2,767,000
2010: 3,381,000
2009: 3,132,000
Best March in at least the past 5 years. I haven't looked at 2008 or back. But we have a new record March in looks like. Still have 5 more business days left.
It's official a record, never before has there been 4 million sold in March. 5 million is a long shot but not impossible given that next Monday gives us an extra business day.
So much for the theory that ASE sales are way down YOY.
Yup, I'm guessing when March is done and we compare this year to last year the numbers will be about the same. If 40 million are sold for the year I wouldn't be surprised but a long way to go before that.
Should easily hit 4.5 million on Monday. Might even be able to hit 4.6-4.7 million total for the month depending how strong Monday is.
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2010
- Messages
- 1,599
- Reaction score
- 1,586
I'm guessing more like 5.1 to 5.2 M by Monday since the bulk of allocation is ordered on Mondays. Obviously in the last couple months the mint has been able to source more blanks than average and this may be related to Sunshine Minting claiming back in Sept. or so that they were just completing an expansion that would about double their blank production. Perhaps that is just coming on line now, but as of a couple years ago the mint stated that west point's production capacity is about 3.3-3.5M/mo and San Fran's is much smaller than that, I think 1M but I don't remember exactly. So the bottleneck may become production capacity and not blank procurement. If sales like this keep up I would look for an article soon in Coin World or whatever saying the mint is looking into expanding production at WP or San Fran or starting at Philly. They've never been made at denver before so I doubt denver.
^ Aren't we still under allocation?
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2010
- Messages
- 1,599
- Reaction score
- 1,586
Until we hear otherwise I assume they're still under allocation. I would think they would have to build up a very large stockpile to not be rationing.
If Monday holds up like previous Monday's and gives us 700-800k, you could very well be right. I was just trying to be on the conservative side. :) In the end, it sure has become quite a month for sales.
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2011
- Messages
- 3,603
- Reaction score
- 1,840
Good prices on silver eagles just about everywhere now so at the moment I don't think any retailers are struggling to get eagles. Provident has silver eagles for $2.39 over spot any quantity this weekend. JmBullion has eagles at 2.49 over spot any quantity. Apmex is as low as 2.79 over on 500+.
Will be interesting to see if Monday is a big sale day like usual, maybe not though if all these retailers have a big surplus.
Will be interesting to see if Monday is a big sale day like usual, maybe not though if all these retailers have a big surplus.
I never thought about that. Do you know why the bulk of the allocation orders come on Monday? Why would the authorized dealers order every Monday as opposed to whenever they needed to replenish their inventory?
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2011
- Messages
- 3,603
- Reaction score
- 1,840
The allocation is reset on Monday, so say the allocation for a given week was 800,000. We'll say 600,000 sold Monday, and the remaining 200,000 sold by Wednesday. They now wouldn't be able to order again until Monday, which is why Mondays will typically be the large sale day when the Mint is allocating eagles.
Still no update from US Mint regarding final March numbers. Hopefully those will be released tomorrow.
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2010
- Messages
- 1,599
- Reaction score
- 1,586
March came out to 5.3M. Are we finally about to see what the true demand is? Srsrocco reported that AP's did not order the full weekly allocation last week , but still that allocation was a whopping 1.4+ M. Instead they sold 1.2M. But again can the mint sustain that kind of production month after month?
Wow, March sure beat any expectation that I had.
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2011
- Messages
- 3,603
- Reaction score
- 1,840
3rd highest total for a month I believe, behind January of 2012 and 2013.
What's also surprising is the disparity between gold and silver sales, 5,354,000 silver sales/only 21,000 oz of gold sold= gives us 254.95 oz of silver sold for every oz of gold.
Probably the highest ratio for any month in the history of silver/gold eagles.
What's also surprising is the disparity between gold and silver sales, 5,354,000 silver sales/only 21,000 oz of gold sold= gives us 254.95 oz of silver sold for every oz of gold.
Probably the highest ratio for any month in the history of silver/gold eagles.
I guess they have sold a few in April too. Things don't appear to be slowing down yet at the US Mint in regards to ASE sales. I am willing to guess that the title of this thread will be a half truth when April is in the books.
Yup, so far this week we are at 1,171,000 oz. Will probably bump into the allocation ceiling again this week? The thread title is just a troll's title that has no bearing on what reality is showing us. For all intents and purposes, this year is off to a bang. Hard to tell what the true demand is with the allocation being in place.
The numbers through last night. Over the past decade, the most ASEs sold in the month of April was just over 4 million in 2013.
Currently we are at just under 1 million. Still have 17 businesses days for reporting left in this month. Could easily break another record this month.
Lookin good but sales look like they are slowing compared to the previous two months. That has been typical in recent years.
ASE sales still showing strength in April
Lakeside
Banned
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2014
- Messages
- 91
- Reaction score
- 35
Leave WhatsupDoc alone. He's had some bad luck in life & this is pretty much all he has left to hope for. :goodnight:
This is some funny stuff. That silly rabbit guy is BLSH's bitch in a big way....PLUS He's in the HOLE by 40+%. I guess he should have gotten in 10 years ago...Now he's got to wait 20 years to maybe break even! TO MUCH!
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2011
- Messages
- 3,603
- Reaction score
- 1,840
20 years to maybe break even? If you truly believe that then what are you doing here? Clearly you shouldn't invest in something that you don't believe will gain over 40% in the next 20 years. TOO MUCH!
Lakeside
Banned
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2014
- Messages
- 91
- Reaction score
- 35
40% huh.
It's like this....
$32.00 X a 40% (loss) 12.8 = 19.20
19.20 x 65% = 12.48 65% is a lot. 20 years ya it could happen.
65% is a lot! And that's ...to...JUST...Break even!
I don't & didn't beleive in 25 plus Silver, That's why.....I got out...at $29.00 Made a little, not a lot. But lost NONE!