Gold Timers Are Finally Throwing in the Towel

[solarion]

You told me silver can be "bought" for spot...which isn't accurate. When you elaborated you then defined "bought" as sending fiats in amounts OVER spot to somebody else to store silver allegedly on my behalf. That is a counterparty.

You then said "Have fun paying insane premiums for silver in the retail market." and ignored what I said about the price of bullion being the real price and the paper price being the fiction. You're overtly promoting counterparties, while actively ignoring all evidence of increased risk with counterparties.

Stuff is all too common around here, where people say "if you don't hold it...blah blah" then suggest others engage counterparties. It's lousy advice.

 

[ds_mustang]

You told me silver can be "bought" for spot...which isn't accurate. When you elaborated you then defined "bought" as sending fiats in amounts OVER spot to somebody else to store silver allegedly on my behalf. That is a counterparty.

You then said "Have fun paying insane premiums for silver in the retail market." and ignored what I said about the price of bullion being the real price and the paper price being the fiction. You're overtly promoting counterparties, while actively ignoring all evidence of increased risk with counterparties.

Stuff is all too common around here, where people say "if you don't hold it...blah blah" then suggest others engage counterparties. It's lousy advice.

I said near spot. But WAY less than paying retail premiums. And yes they will store it, but I said you can also have it delivered, just like you would from Apmex or other retail stores. In my case I hold my silver under my control in physical, so maybe you should remain quiet about things you don't know about when you're talking about what risks I'm taking.

 

[solarion]

Sure, just like you can have it delivered from the Perth mint. lol

I don't care what risks you're taking. I care when you talk out of your ass and promote counterparty risk. "Near spot" + unspecified delivery charges and wait times is just gibberish. PMs in hand NOW are worth more inside and outside of the crimex...for a reason. That you personally classify the cost premiums associated with silver in hand as "insane" is irrelevant. Taking on counterparty risk in this environment is unwise.

 

[solarion]

Any of this backwardation of any concern? ...or just more of that noise?

What about when it's occurring precisely as price inflation is becoming painfully obvious to even the most fluoridated of sheeple? Anything? Coincidence? Seems silly of them to be so intent on standing for delivery of an industrial metal when there are clearly such big problems economically. Silver futures contract holders must be confused.

 

[Unca Walt]

Thanks! Have fun ignoring every history book on economic collapse ever written.

Counter party risk during financial strife = bad. The paper price is the fiction, what you call "insane" is simply an approximation of the real price of an ounce of silver in a market with zero functioning price discovery mechanisms.

I cannot help it. In the gentlest manner I can get this across:

I think you might have a pretty good idea of yer Unca's state of mind regarding people who will not see facts, no matter how carefully you lay out your (correct) information. No matter how many times you add proofs, backed up with more and more info -- they elide right back into their original hole of error.

There is a beautiful parallel to the van Allen Belt non-mystery where someone could lay it all out (like you did above with the real Ag price) and the effort was wasted because the person who did not have the knowledge decided to stick with their wrong position/belief no matter what.



There It Is.

 

[solarion]

Yes, it's exactly the same. Government provided information compares directly to my own observations.

I collect data on the metals markets and chart them. I communicate directly with vendors, so there is no propaganda in the information chain.

 

[TAEZZAR]

There is very little no inventory out there !! WHAT DOES THAT TELL YA ???

 

[ds_mustang]

When you've been watching backwardation signals as long as I have you'd know this isn't that uncommon for silver. When it reaches a point that I haven't seen before (or when gold get involved too) then I'll get more excited. Either way I'm not worried as I'm already prepared with a metals position and have been probably for longer than you have been in metals. I'm jaded from all the false alarms over the years, and it's not so easy to get my hopes up.

And honestly I don't see many people or businesses panicking into metals, I see them panicking into crypto.

 

[dacrunch]

I gave up trying to "time the markets" as well as "chart the prices" (stochastics etc.) for 20 years now, on EVERYTHING. (since after the dot-coms)

The markets are RIGGED - ... ALL OF THEM.

Want to "invest"? Start a manufacturing or distribution or consulting outfit... Or invest in one run by people you KNOW...

Want to "protect assets" - Buy physical and hold. Buy income-producing real-estate & hold.

Don't "leverage" unless you're ready to lose everything.

 

[TAEZZAR]

When you've been watching backwardation signals as long as I have you'd know this isn't that uncommon for silver. When it reaches a point that I haven't seen before (or when gold get involved too) then I'll get more excited. Either way I'm not worried as I'm already prepared with a metals position and have been probably for longer than you have been in metals. I'm jaded from all the false alarms over the years, and it's not so easy to get my hopes up.

And honestly I don't see many people or businesses panicking into metals, I see them panicking into crypto.

You couldn't have watched it any longer than I have. I watched Johnson & Tricky Dick destroy our dollar (yes they were just the "agents"). I even acquired gold at $800/.oz, in Peru in the '79/'80, momentary spiral.
I have watched PM's steady, by jerks, climb from $35/ .oz to over 50X in that time. In my opinion it was directly from government OVER SPENDING - FOLLOWED BY INCREASED TAXES ! EXACTLY WHAT WE ARE SEEING RIGHT NOW !!!
Here is a great picture of it all, and we are 20 years past this !!!

The mere fact that PM dealers have NO INVENTORY is a very telling story.

 

[ds_mustang]

You couldn't have watched it any longer than I have. I watched Johnson & Tricky Dick destroy our dollar (yes the were just the "agents"). I even acquired gold at $800/.oz, in Peru in the '79/'80, momentary spiral.
I have watched PM's steady, by jerks, climb from $35/ .oz to over 50X in that time. In my opinion it was directly from government OVER SPENDING - FOLLOWED BY INCREASED TAXES ! EXACTLY WHAT WE ARE SEEING RIGHT NOW !!!
Here is a great picture of it all, and we are 20 years past this !!!

The mere fact that PM dealers have NO INVENTORY is a very telling story.

View attachment 205212

Ok, you've been around PMs longer than me.

And as for no inventory, that's only the coin and small bar retail space. I can buy as much as I want at the investment/commercial level near spot (for the moment anyway).

But here's what really concerns me. What ordinary person is going to go through the effort to figure out how to buy gold or silver when it takes special knowledge, isn't convenient, is difficult to find inventory, and premiums are so high? Now consider that anyone can buy crypto at near zero effort immediately in paypal, robinhood, or cash app to get protection from a declining dollar? So what younger person under 30 is going to buy a difficult, expensive "boomer" investment like gold or silver when there is crypto that does the same thing and is easier, newer, and more appealing to them? As a result I've read polls have suggested something like 10% of stimulus checks are going right into bitcoin and crypto--no mention of PMs. Almost everyone I know is buying crypto or thinking about it, nobody I know is buying metal except the few people who were already into metal.

 

[TAEZZAR]

I can buy as much as I want at the investment/commercial level near spot (for the moment anyway).

My understanding is that buying from the mint or major suppliers requires 7 figure purchases, as a minimum.

But here's what really concerns me. What ordinary person is going to go through the effort to figure out how to buy gold or silver when it takes special knowledge, isn't convenient, is difficult to find inventory, and premiums are so high? Now consider that anyone can buy crypto at near zero effort immediately in paypal, robinhood, or cash app to get protection from a declining dollar? So what younger person under 30 is going to buy a difficult, expensive "boomer" investment like gold or silver when there is crypto that does the same thing and is easier, newer, and more appealing to them? As a result I've read polls have suggested something like 10% of stimulus checks are going right into bitcoin and crypto--no mention of PMs. Almost everyone I know is buying crypto or thinking about it, nobody I know is buying metal except the few people who were already into metal.

I believe Shitcoin & all cryptos are a fools game. There is absolutely NO security in this scam. Digital data is VULNERABLE at best & totally manipulated at worst. PM's are a hard asset that are far more secure (but vulnerable to fire & theft) than any crypto could ever be.
Those under 30 have been indoctrinated by the DOE to "just follow orders". In my opinion, they are not capable of independent thought. If they were they would not be wearing masks, particularly while outside or driving their vehicles !!!

Having circled the sun 78 times, I have seen way much more of life than most. The creation of our Federal Reserve Notes, aka FIAT is just one, old, example of the tomfoolery that goes on in the name of "money".
So, now, we have advanced to 1's & 0's in a cloud, as a viable monetary system. I call BULLSCHIFF, it is a fools game & I will not recognize it.

As a last point. This will shall also escalate to a cashless system, where your EVERY move will be controlled. Your digital account will be subject to closure if you do not comply with government orders/decrees & you will not be able to buy groceries & more. This is coming.

 

[ds_mustang]

My understanding is that buying from the mint or major suppliers requires 7 figure purchases, as a minimum.


I believe Shitcoin & all cryptos are a fools game. There is absolutely NO security in this scam. Digital data is VULNERABLE at best & totally manipulated at worst. PM's are a hard asset that are far more secure (but vulnerable to fire & theft) than any crypto could ever be.
Those under 30 have been indoctrinated by the DOE to "just follow orders". In my opinion, they are not capable of independent thought. If they were they would not be wearing masks, particularly while outside or driving their vehicles !!!

Having circled the sun 78 times, I have seen way much more of life than most. The creation of our Federal Reserve Notes, aka FIAT is just one, old, example of the tomfoolery that goes on in the name of "money".
So, now, we have advanced to 1's & 0's in a cloud, as a viable monetary system. I call BULLSCHIFF, it is a fools game & I will not recognize it.

As a last point. This will shall also escalate to a cashless system, where your EVERY move will be controlled. Your digital account will be subject to closure if you do not comply with government orders/decrees & you will not be able to buy groceries & more. This is coming.

I mostly agree with you. The younger generations don't think for themselves. And I agree they are moving toward a cashless system where every penny will be fully tracked and they will be able to cut people off from the system.

I disagree that decentralized crypto is vulnerable and I think its less manipulated than the dollar system. It's certainly more trustworthy than the Fed controlled dollar system, more free, and more likely to hold its value. But I understand why people wouldn't trust it if they don't understand the technicals to some depth. Every new invention from the telephone, internal combustion engine, computer, etc had skeptics. Gold does have the longer history of course. We'll have to see what the future brings. So far though crypto is growing rapidly.

 

[Casey Jones]

Okay. I'm going to admit to some possible ignorance here.

What does backwardation in futures contracts indicate, other than just other players' expectations that COMEX prices are going to fall? Is it that traders are trying to cue from possible telegraphed insider information, or are they just following the stampede?

Do they know the Financial Borg's monkeyhammer is always going to work; or is it just that they BELIEVE it will?

I have no idea what to do with that information; what to make of it. We're printing money like Wiemar and precious metals are falling on the COMEX. Granted, the spot prices are detached from reality; but given that they're settling futures and derivatives on that price, it must have some tenuous ties to it.

 

[TAEZZAR]

. Gold does have the longer history of course. We'll have to see what the future brings. So far though crypto is growing rapidly.

Since I can keep PM's in my "closet" and fondle them as desired, without fear of a "system crash", computer, not monetary, I will go with the longer track record, as opposed to going with going with the "BILLFUCKINGGATES" 1's & 0's easily manipulated crypto. Slight drift but gates comes from a bankster background/family and fucked many companies out of 100's of millions of dollars, therefore the ref.

Just a cute side of a serious post.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=que+sera+sera+song&view=detail&mid=97DE094C0445EAA1366C97DE094C0445EAA1366C&FORM=VIRE0&ru=/search?q=que+sera+sera+song&form=ANSPH1&refig=baa15536c314418ebbc5337c65fa69bb&pc=U531&sp=2&qs=OS&pq=que+sara+sara&sk=PRES1OS1&sc=8-13&cvid=baa15536c314418ebbc5337c65fa69bb

 

[ds_mustang]

Okay. I'm going to admit to some possible ignorance here.

What does backwardation in futures contracts indicate, other than just other players' expectations that COMEX prices are going to fall? Is it that traders are trying to cue from possible telegraphed insider information, or are they just following the stampede?

Do they know the Financial Borg's monkeyhammer is always going to work; or is it just that they BELIEVE it will?

I have no idea what to do with that information; what to make of it. We're printing money like Wiemar and precious metals are falling on the COMEX. Granted, the spot prices are detached from reality; but given that they're settling futures and derivatives on that price, it must have some tenuous ties to it.

It's actually the opposite. Backwardation in silver is a signal that the physical silver holders using the commodity exchange have decided that the exchange itself has too much risk and so they decide to not participate despite apparently "risk free" profitable trades existing on the exchange. They don't want to exchange their silver for the promise of delivery in the future because they worry the delivery won't happen. Essentially silver goes into hiding. Same thing with gold backwardation, however in that case it's much more serious as the gold market is much larger, less volatile, and gold is arguably real money. So backwardation in gold means gold (real money) is no longer bidding for dollars and might become simply unavailable to be bought with dollars.

The theories on gold (and silver) backwardation were largely put forward by Prof Antal Fekete and drew quite a bit of attention in 2008 during the financial crisis. Here are a couple of his essays on the subject from 2008 here where he is discussing the backwardation in gold that happened then:

https://professorfekete.com/articles/AEFRedAlert.pdf

https://professorfekete.com/articles/AEFHasTheCurtainFallenLastContangoInWashington.pdf

If you are interested in more, read the other articles on his website referencing backwardation or variations of "Last Contango in Washington" in the title:

Professor Antal E. Fekete - Articles

Professor Antal E. Fekete is a renowned mathematician and monetary scientist. This site will illuminate some of his important ideas on economics, mathematics, gold and silver basis, interest, financial markets, arbitrage and the Austrian School of economics.

professorfekete.com

The continuation of these theories is being carried forward by Keith Weiner of MonetaryMetals who studied under Fekete:

Gold and Economic Research | Monetary Metals

Monetary Metals research articles and article series provide gold and silver investors with a more detailed discussion of our unique economic views, such as the concept of yield purchasing power and our approach to precious metal markets. The core of our research is based on the idea that...

monetary-metals.com

 

[solarion]

And honestly I don't see many people or businesses panicking into metals, I see them panicking into crypto.

It's amazing what people can not see when they so choose.

Look out for backwardation! ...unless you find it! Then ignore it! lol

 

[ds_mustang]

It's amazing what people can not see when they so choose.

View attachment 205248

View attachment 205249

Look out for backwardation! ...unless you find it! Then ignore it! lol

View attachment 205251

Sure, but those are traders and people already in the metals space. What I'm talking about are non-metals companies and the every day folks who ARE using simple on-roads like paypal to get into crypto. Again, see the news stories about TSLA buying bitcoin or 10% of stimulus checks going into crypto. I don't see that kind of action happening in PMs was the point I was making. Even the wall street bets people weren't interested when all the info was handed to them on a silver platter (pun intended).

Suppose comex runs out of silver and they force dollar settlement. Will anyone outside of silver bugs even care? Silver is tiny and isn't monetized. What do you expect to happen? If/when it gets to gold then you've got something.

 

[TAEZZAR]

OK, you can go play 1's & 0's on yer keyboard, into a cloud. I will hold Troy ounces of REALITY.

 

[Zed]

I've explained about bubbles enough, elsewhere. Someone ELSE needs to educate himself about bubbles, manias, and the volatility of prices when there is no underlying value.

That bitcoin's price keeps going up, tells me only that hodlers in their mommas' basements, are selling to each other, back and forth, and think they're doing something meaningful.

If it were only holders, I am seeing more and more from the financial industry getting insanely bullish with bitcoin. There is some serious money floating around this market. So much so that if they do decide to move against it, which I'm almost certain at least the Europeans will do, they will have to come to some form of settlement with the market for the fear of doing further damage or triggering off some sort of Contagion.

Nothing much about Bitcoin is really making sense to me. At the moment I suspect there will be a forced swap into some sort of government-sponsored crypto as and when they arrive.

 

[msolorio3]

Yeah, gold and silver plainly have no monetary correlation to one another and definitely have not had such for thousands of years. lol

Gold premiums are high, but not historic. Silver premiums are historic and have been for months. If silver is jail broken from paper prison, then so will gold be. They're inseparable as monetary metals. I'll spare you the sermon on how a US dollar is defined in grains of silver...not gold, or how silver was money long after gold was de-monetized. Obviously facts are irrelevant where you're concerned anyway.

Gold is btw being dragged from crimex vaults in record quantity as well, but you don't care about that either...because again, you do not deal in facts when it comes to this stuff, only your own personal beliefs.

Obviously explaining to you that historically it's actually platinum(and copper) that best hedge against inflation, would again be a waste of time, because you'll simply dismiss that as well.

I get what you're saying. Keep stackin' son. Got it. Will do. Thank you

 

[solarion]

Suppose comex runs out of silver and they force dollar settlement.

Then perhaps the market will function with actual supply/demand mechanics...for the first time in 41 years.

Even the wall street bets people weren't interested when all the info was handed to them on a silver platter (pun intended).

"Even" wallstreetbets? So what? That was months ago. It's been about wallstreetsilver since. You do know they fractured off long ago right?

Silver is tiny and isn't monetized.

...but gold matters because it is monetized?

 

[ds_mustang]

Then perhaps the market will function with actual supply/demand mechanics...for the first time in 41 years.

"Even" wallstreetbets? So what? That was months ago. It's been about wallstreetsilver since. You do know they fractured off long ago right?

...but gold matters because it is monetized?

I'm going to have to apologize to the people that love silver in advance for this post, but here goes...

For me it's about perspective. Silver bugs tend to lose perspective when it comes to silver. Yes I'm aware of wallstreetsilver, that's where the silver bugs got booted out to. But again they're silver bugs, not ordinary people. I simply don't see ordinary people caring much in the least about silver and I don't see that changing. I don't see silver as very important. Big money looks to gold, not silver.

Gold matters because it's historical money and it's held around the world as a reserve asset. Silver is an industrial commodity, it's not money, it's not well suited to be money for a number of reasons, and it's not held as a reserve asset. That it's rare and more useful than gold are two strikes against it when you understand the economics of why gold is money. So silver is just a speculative bet, and that's how I view my silver position. I'll quickly sell it off for gold if it moves up far enough quick enough, just like I did when it went over $40 in 2011. Buy silver when it's much cheaper than you thought it could get and dump it when it's rapidly getting very expensive and you won't go wrong. Fall in love with it and it will screw you over endlessly.

Silver futures imploding (if it happens) won't even be a fraction as impactful to the world as when oil futures imploded last year--and that wasn't particularly impactful. Most people won't even know it happened. Nothing will change. Silver just isn't that important. Bitcoin will flip silver later this year, just watch.

 

[Tbonz]

I'm going to have to apologize to the people that love silver in advance for this post, but here goes...

For me it's about perspective. Silver bugs tend to lose perspective when it comes to silver. Yes I'm aware of wallstreetsilver, that's where the silver bugs got booted out to. But again they're silver bugs, not ordinary people. I simply don't see ordinary people caring much in the least about silver and I don't see that changing. I don't see silver as very important. Big money looks to gold, not silver.

Gold matters because it's historical money and it's held around the world as a reserve asset. Silver is an industrial commodity, it's not money, it's not well suited to be money for a number of reasons, and it's not held as a reserve asset. That it's rare and more useful than gold are two strikes against it when you understand the economics of why gold is money. So silver is just a speculative bet, and that's how I view my silver position. I'll quickly sell it off for gold if it moves up far enough quick enough, just like I did when it went over $40 in 2011. Buy silver when it's much cheaper than you thought it could get and dump it when it's rapidly getting very expensive and you won't go wrong. Fall in love with it and it will screw you over endlessly.

Silver futures imploding (if it happens) won't even be a fraction as impactful to the world as when oil futures imploded last year--and that wasn't particularly impactful. Most people won't even know it happened. Nothing will change. Silver just isn't that important. Bitcoin will flip silver later this year, just watch.

I understand, and agree with what you are saying. Gold is money.

However, I will say this, silver can be broken down through 90% or even 40% silver coins that can be used in transactions, money that is still recognizable to a relatively decent sized portion of our society. Yes I understand that fractional gold is available, however when we are talking a tank of gas, I'm not dropping a 1/10 of an oz, or a 1/20 of an ounce of gold, 2-3 90% half dollars sure.

I believe that each metal has its usefulness, and I pray that we never have to get to that point, but I'm thankful that I have the ability to put my stack to use if need be. JMHO

 

[TAEZZAR]

Silver just isn't that important.

Then why does the electronic/electrical industry use it ?

Currently we mine around six hundred million ounces of silver each year while industry consumes about eight hundred and seventy million ounces.

Pretty simple, we are creating a shortage by consuming about 42% MORE than we mine.
But, that is NOT important !

 

[solarion]

...and silver is most definitely money. For Americans it has been money more recently than gold...which was banned for Americans way back in 1933. The US dollar was defined in terms of silver weight...not gold. People like to kid themselves, but silver is the second most important commodity in the world...after oil...as well as being commodity money. Its being sprung from crimex prison will definitely break shit.

 

[TAEZZAR]

AND we use it to make Colloidal Silver/EIS, an antibacterial !!

 

[TAEZZAR]

There is very little no inventory out there !! WHAT DOES THAT TELL YA ???

My LCD has a couple 100 oz's, usually he has 10x that.

 

[ds_mustang]

Yeah sorry guys, just my perspective on silver. When I say it's not important, I mean it's not monetarily important.

Explaining to me how it is industrially useful, or how we're using more than is mined just underlines why is not a good money to me. You want money to be mostly useless so industry doesn't affect the money supply, and money hoarding doesn't impact industry. And you want a lot of stock of it compared to the useful flow so volatility is low, so pointing out how rare silver is doesn't help. Silver is just not a good money.

 

[TAEZZAR]

OK, I am slow, BUT I finally got it. You hate silver and that is OK. Many of us here like it.

 

[solarion]

Yeah sorry guys, just my perspective on silver. When I say it's not important, I mean it's not monetarily important.

Explaining to me how it is industrially useful, or how we're using more than is mined just underlines why is not a good money to me. You want money to be mostly useless so industry doesn't affect the money supply, and money hoarding doesn't impact industry. And you want a lot of stock of it compared to the useful flow so volatility is low, so pointing out how rare silver is doesn't help. Silver is just not a good money.

Sounds like you're not very into any commodity money...including gold. I see these metals as horribly undervalued, particularly silver and platinum and they should have a reckoning coming here, if the rabid manipulation can be broken down.

 

[Zed]

Big money looks to gold, not silver.

Yeah but silver always moves more than gold. Gold will never move too far without silver but given it's industrial influence it is conceivable that the reverse happens as unlikely as that is.

 

[Zed]

Yeah sorry guys, just my perspective on silver. When I say it's not important, I mean it's not monetarily important.

Explaining to me how it is industrially useful, or how we're using more than is mined just underlines why is not a good money to me. You want money to be mostly useless so industry doesn't affect the money supply, and money hoarding doesn't impact industry. And you want a lot of stock of it compared to the useful flow so volatility is low, so pointing out how rare silver is doesn't help. Silver is just not a good money.

Gold isn't money anymore, it is a reserve asset.

Regardless you cannot make a case for gold moving without silver. Silver shares all of gold drivers + a set of its own on top of gold.

 

[Zed]

OK, I am slow, BUT I finally got it. You hate silver and that is OK. Many of us here like it.

Salt and pepper to me, better together.

 

[TAEZZAR]

Salt and pepper to me, better together.

Silver & gold ??? Me 3 !

 

[ds_mustang]

OK, I am slow, BUT I finally got it. You hate silver and that is OK. Many of us here like it.

I don't hate silver, I just don't see it as monetarily important compared to gold. I see it more as a speculation. And as a speculation it's very volatile and needs to be bought carefully at the right times. Buying when premiums are high is NOT the way to buy it, but it is when everyone gets really excited about it.

 

[ds_mustang]

Sounds like you're not very into any commodity money...including gold. I see these metals as horribly undervalued, particularly silver and platinum and they should have a reckoning coming here, if the rabid manipulation can be broken down.

I agree, horribly undervalued. And I have no problem with commodity money, I have a problem with fiat money--people should be free to choose the money they want.

But I don't see silver as particularly important monetarily, just like platinum and other PMs. I know that annoys some people, it's just my opinion.

 

[solarion]

That's all mostly because you seemingly think fiats are not risky. Shown absolute 100% proof of both manipulation of commodity money prices and massive inbound inflation, you'd say it means nothing. You seem to believe premiums will come down because...reasons, yet even you must realize what is occurring just now is abnormal & has never happened before.

You're practically a study in normalcy bias and the risks it presents.

But I don't see silver as particularly important monetarily, just like platinum and other PMs. I know that annoys some people, it's just my opinion.

...and you're welcome to it...even though it's provably wrong. The metals move together for a reason. Rhodium is $29k an ounce, palladium is > $2500 an ounce...and platinum, a substitute for palladium, is 1177. This despite being historically more expensive than palladium. You stack things when they're cheap...not expensive.

BTW, investment silver demand just exceeded industrial demand on a trailing 12 month basis. Industrial metal indeed.

 

[ds_mustang]

Gold isn't money anymore, it is a reserve asset.

Regardless you cannot make a case for gold moving without silver. Silver shares all of gold drivers + a set of its own on top of gold.

If people were free to choose their money, things would be different. Meanwhile governments are temporary while gold isn't. So saying gold isn't money is a statement of a temporary situation, not what is foundationally true.

I agree if gold moves silver moves. And silver will usually move more. But I still think everything else I've said is true.

 

[ds_mustang]

That's all mostly because you seemingly think fiats are not risky. Shown absolute 100% proof of both manipulation of commodity money prices and massive inbound inflation, you'd say it means nothing. You seem to believe premiums will come down because...reasons, yet even you must realize what is occurring just now is abnormal & has never happened before.

You're practically a study in normalcy bias and the risks it presents.

...and you're welcome to it...even though it's provably wrong. The metals move together for a reason. Rhodium is $29k an ounce, palladium is > $2500 an ounce...and platinum, a substitute for palladium, is 1177. This despite being historically more expensive than palladium. You stack things when they're cheap...not expensive.

BTW, investment silver demand just exceeded industrial demand on a trailing 12 month basis. Industrial metal indeed.

Why do you keep saying things about me that aren't remotely true? You clearly know very little about me. Obviously fiats are risky and you'd be an idiot to hold them. Just because I don't think a commodity issue with silver will be particularly impactful doesn't mean I'm a fan of fiat. Drawing that conclusion doesn't make any sense.

It doesn't matter if silver has investment demand. The fact it is an industrial metal makes it a poor choice for being money. There are many problems with using industrial metals as money. Money is typically hoarded and it's bad (and immoral) to hoard a commodity that is needed by industry. It harms markets and it harms people: creates shortages, drives up prices, impacts production, destroys livelihoods, etc--it's damaging and immoral. Gold is mostly useless so it harms no industry, market, or person when it is hoarded. The same cannot be said of silver. I know fans of silver don't want to hear that but it's the truth.