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Goldbacks

Scorpio

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#1
I looked at this awhile ago,
different and interesting idea

then one of the guys from there came and registered here,

Straw let him know up front about the rules on commercial proselytizing

But he really didn't need it, as he was honorable enough not to bring it up or push it without being asked about it,

Regardless, this is from their website,

-----------------



One Goldback: $3.05

See “Exchange Rate” for more details.




The Goldback is the world’s first local, voluntary currency to be made of a spendable, beautiful, small denomination, affordable, physical gold. Learn how to purchase the Goldback with this Guide:
Our Beginning:

The Goldback project truly began in spirit with the passage of the Utah Legal Tender Act in 2011 which recognized certain types of Gold as currency within the state. Since that time the technology to mint gold into a spendable form for small transactions has come to fruition. Goldbacks may be used almost anywhere in the world for barter transactions. Goldback Inc. is using cutting edge technology to circulate gold as it never has before. A more complete history of the Goldback can be found here:
Our Goal:
We are working to make it possible for an anyone to have a choice on whether or not they want their regular spending money to be subject to inflation. The Goldback is meant to be the best physical currency for retaining value. Our goal is for people to be able to pay for anything with the Goldback whether it is a new home or a lemonade. Each Goldback is at least valued at the current rate on Goldback.com by businesses. You can purchase the Goldback by following this guide.


The Utah series was the first Goldback series available in 2019. Nevada and New Hampshire are scheduled to be done in 2020. There are many projects in the works.
“The Goldback solves a 2,600 year old problem in that gold can be spent in small, interchangeable increments.”
— dr. Mark Voelker, United Precious Metals Association Board Member


If nothing else Covid-19 showed just how unprepared many people were for a disruptive event. It pays to prepare for a crisis in advance and to try to be at least a little bit ready for whatever that crisis ends up being.
Some people feel like there may come a day when regular fiat currency will no longer retain much value due to some economic, political, or natural disaster. Over the past century hundreds of fiat currencies have had their values wiped out. For this reason, many people hold some amount of gold and silver. However, it may be difficult to spend a theoretical $1,500 gold coin or even an $80 silver coin for the purchase of toilet paper if an EMP blast wipes out the power grid for several months. It makes sense to keep a portion of this hedge in Goldbacks.



Over half of all Goldbacks produced are of the ‘one’ denomination.
Our Experience:
Our team has been working in the precious metals industry since our General Counsel, Lawrence Hilton, authored and championed the passage of the Utah Legal Tender Act in 2011. The Utah Precious Metals Association formed in 2012 from the “Citizens for Sound Money” and began offering legal tender gold accounts that same year. We have been innovating in the space ever since.
Read the full history of the creation of the Goldback here:
~25-50%
Acceptance rate for Goldbacks at small businesses that take cash payments when speaking to the business owner.
More Information Here:
200,000+
Number of the “one” Goldback denomination created and sold.

History of the ‘one’ Development:
~$3 Million
Cash value of all of the Goldbacks ordered from August 2019 to May of 2020.


https://goldback.com/
 

Strawboss

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#2
How much gold is in the $50 note?
 

FlaGman

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#3
Whether or not this venture is successful, I have to give Big Ball points to someone trying to make a gold backed paper currency in which the actual currency contains the gold.

On the other hand, I also have a few Liberty Dollars stashed away, so maybe I am not the best judge....
 

newmisty

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#4

Usury

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#5
Seems like an overpriced novelty to me. 10% + $1000 premium???? No thanks...I’ll take my gold stamped into coins please.

BTW...they did and do mint smaller gold coins—not just 1 ozs...and for MUCH lower premiums.
 
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#7
How much gold is in the $50 note?
1/20th of an ounce or 50x as much gold as the 1/1000th of an ounce 'one' denomination Goldback.

The idea here is to have the same premium on all of the Goldbacks so that fifty of the smallest denomination costs the same as one of the '50' denominations and has an equal gold content. Otherwise it won't feel like cash.
 

andial

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#8
1/20th of an ounce or 50x as much gold as the 1/1000th of an ounce 'one' denomination Goldback.

The idea here is to have the same premium on all of the Goldbacks so that fifty of the smallest denomination costs the same as one of the '50' denominations and has an equal gold content. Otherwise it won't feel like cash.
Thats roughly 90 bucks worth of gold, how many FRN's for a fifty dollar note?

Edit: Just saw Densos post, $160 roughly for a 50 dollar goldback.
 

Strawboss

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#9
1/20th of an ounce or 50x as much gold as the 1/1000th of an ounce 'one' denomination Goldback.

The idea here is to have the same premium on all of the Goldbacks so that fifty of the smallest denomination costs the same as one of the '50' denominations and has an equal gold content. Otherwise it won't feel like cash.
So...

$160 or so per $50 note and it takes 20 of them to equal 1 oz. of gold.

$160 x 20 =$3200
Current gold price @$1770
$3200 - $1770 = $1430 premium.

Pretty good work if you can get it...
 
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#10
Seems like an overpriced novelty to me. 10% + $1000 premium???? No thanks...I’ll take my gold stamped into coins please.

BTW...they did and do mint smaller gold coins—not just 1 ozs...and for MUCH lower premiums.
I actually enjoy comments like this. Believe it or not I'm a contrarian (Devil's Advocate) and really appreciate it when people aren't so darn agreeable all of the time. That's part of why I am liking this site. Not enough people know how to respectfully disagree anymore.

You are right of course. If your goal is price exposure then Goldbacks are an expensive way to own a large amount of gold. What you want is the cheapest possible gold and there are several good options for that. I actually keep most of my gold in the form of Gold Eagles because they are federal legal tender in the United States.

That said, people aren't buying Goldbacks with gold exposure as the primary goal. It is a secondary goal. The primary goal is the utility of easy circulation. Even with that said, Goldbacks have gone from $2.25 each to $3.05 in under a year so they are inflation resistant.

You may want to keep your gold as stamped coins but when was the last time you traded one for something? I can spend two Goldbacks and buy myself a sandwich. I can spend one Goldback and buy almost any food I want at the farmers market or food truck (and sometimes for a steep discount if they just want one for the novelty.)

I'm from Oregon originally and while I was visiting out there I spent about 40 Goldbacks at the farmers market. People didn't mind that they said 'Utah' on them. Small business owners are risk takers and as a group are conservatively minded. This is true in most places.

The most common complaint is the premium (which stands at below 100% for the 1/1000th of an ounce). You won't find a better premium for that quantity of gold anywhere. If you are talking about 1/20th of an ounce, then yes, the 50 Goldback is expensive compared to a small coin but the idea is that you can turn it in for 50 of the '1's.

Anyway, I hope this adds to the discussion in a meaningful way.

[I think the rule against commercial proselyting is a good one. I've got a few people in my church that are just over-eager to tell me about their MLM that will help me retire in three years. It is annoying when people don't have a good understanding of boundaries and become walking ads.]
 

Voodoo

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#11
So...

$160 or so per $50 note and it takes 20 of them to equal 1 oz. of gold.

$160 x 20 =$3200
Current gold price @$1770
$3200 - $1770 = $1430 premium.

Pretty good work if you can get it...
This is gold for spending, not stacking. I think that's the main difference that gold bugs have trouble discerning.
 
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#12
This is gold for spending, not stacking. I think that's the main difference that gold bugs have trouble discerning.
Yeah... some people get hung up on the premium which isn't totally unfair. Buying 1,000 single units is more expensive then buying one big unit that is x1,000 bigger. I mean, it is as low as $3,060 for an ounce of gold in the form of a thousand Goldbacks.

The paradigm shift occurs when you point out that the Goldback is designed to function as currency and that the currency in your wallet now (FRNs) is 0% gold. Circulating FRNs supports the fed and central banking. Yes, Goldbacks may have ~70% premium but they are also the cheapest 1/1000th of an ounce gold product in the world. Circulating Goldbacks supports your local economy and can give a determined individual independence from the dollar in a way that was impossible even a year ago.
 

Usury

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#13
That’s what silver coins are for.
 

Strawboss

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#14
Please take my comments as presented with no malice or ill will...I am a supporter of efforts in general to restore the Constitutional primacy of gold/silver as lawful money...I wished you and your staff much success and mean it...

Now having said that...

some people get hung up on the premium which isn't totally unfair.
I work in sales and can really appreciate this... "its not totally unfair"...that is gold when overcoming an objection...so at current premium...its not "totally"unfair. 90% unfair? 5% unfair?
Buying 1,000 single units is more expensive then buying one big unit that is x1,000 bigger.
This is true. The production cost scales inversely (to a point) to the number of units produced. Also - there are start up costs, machinery, tooling, shop supplies, etc...(I know you know this).
I mean, it is as low as $3,060 for an ounce of gold in the form of a thousand Goldbacks.
Another good sales close... "as low as" (@$1300 over spot)
Yes, Goldbacks may have ~70% premium but they are also the cheapest 1/1000th of an ounce gold product in the world.
If it gains traction - that premium will attract a horde of competitors...
That’s what silver coins are for.
Especially the pre64 dimes and quarters...

Also - I would imagine the lifespan of these goldbacks wouldnt be much longer than several years or so...especially if adoption of them increases.

Would someone with a busted up old goldback have to pay another premium to buy a new one to replace the tattered one?
 
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#15
Please take my comments as presented with no malice or ill will...I am a supporter of efforts in general to restore the Constitutional primacy of gold/silver as lawful money...I wished you and your staff much success and mean it...
Thank you! One of my hopes of being here was getting well intended feedback like this. It helps me get a solid idea of where the criticism is coming from and how to make things better.


I work in sales and can really appreciate this... "its not totally unfair"...that is gold when overcoming an objection...so at current premium...its not "totally"unfair. 90% unfair? 5% unfair?
My background is sales and I do talk like a sales person. We started the premium on the Goldback a bit lower and for the first few months no one was interested in selling it. The product just didn't make them enough money to be worth their time. Most people think in terms of premium % above spot but for something as small as 1/1000th of an ounce one also has to consider the flat cost above spot. If you order a single 1 denomination Goldback there are several people handling that individual piece of gold before you get it. Each bit of labor has a cost. It takes a worker at somewhere like APMEX about as much time to process that Goldback as it takes them to process a gold coin (that makes a lot more money). Our retailers are actually losing on the low denomination Goldbacks when you factor in labor.

If it takes a worker just 2 minutes to process a Goldback and they make $20 an hour then it cost the business almost a dollar just to deal with that Goldback. They make less than that. On a transaction where they make $70 (say an ounce of gold) this isn't as big as a deal.

The prices on the higher denominations hinges on the lowest one since they are interchangeable. More profit is made on the higher ones to cover the losses. It took a lot of work to sell the retailers on this model. My goal was to make the 1 Goldback as cheap as possible. It is printed by Valaurum at a loss. Perhaps you are familiar with the concept of a 'loss leader'.

This is true. The production cost scales inversely (to a point) to the number of units produced. Also - there are start up costs, machinery, tooling, shop supplies, etc...(I know you know this).
I expect premiums to get lower over time. The technology to electroplate like this has been out for awhile and like any other manufacturing process it will get better as we scale up. Between scaling up and selling more Goldbacks the price will get pushed down. As of now it is hard to even keep them in stock with what we can do so the retailers are making a killing by raising prices just trying to not wipe out their inventories. That and it is new. This phase won't last forever. It feels like the salmon run though.

If it gains traction - that premium will attract a horde of competitors...
Before we made the Goldback I was super concerned about this. We went ahead and got the trademark for Goldback and signed an exclusivity deal with Valaurum so we get to corner this market unopposed for years. They are the only ones with the printing technology so that is about as good as your will get. Then a new competitor after the period will have to follow some rules as to not ruin the space.

Eventually the technology will get out (maybe in 5-10 years) by someone other than Valaurum but if Goldbacks are really THAT popular then I've already won. I don't need to own the whole entire thing. The point is to decentralize. I just don't want to lose out after putting the work into the idea. Golback Inc. doesn't need to be General Electric but it shouldn't be Tesla either.

Also - I would imagine the lifespan of these goldbacks wouldnt be much longer than several years or so...especially if adoption of them increases.

Would someone with a busted up old goldback have to pay another premium to buy a new one to replace the tattered one?
This point is what keeps me up at night. We designed a wallet that doesn't bend the things. If they aren't bent then they can last for a very very long time (think 10 years plus in a wallet). The Goldback is much tougher than a dollar. Couple points here:

1. Goldbacks don't circulate as fast as dollars do.
2. Most people handling them are careful.
3. When they are a little worn they tend to be accepted anyway because they still contain the same amount of gold content.
4. If all else fails they can be stored and traded in a 10 cent plastic holder. (like a fancy pokemon card)

As we continue to scale up I am setting up a mechanism to deal with worn out Goldbacks from time to time to take them out of circulation. We will just have to absorb most of the cost. Otherwise it won't feel like money. We have a lot of meetings on this.

Again, I appreciate the feedback. Right now we are working on the New Hampshire art so I'm going to give you guys a sneak peek... (I can't just get all this free well intended feedback without giving something back)


-2933563055744940270.jpg

The militia in New Hampshire took the cannons from a British fort. This denomination celebrates that early colonial victory.