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Good Shoot or Not?

Ensoniq

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No gun and it likely would have just been another Worldstar curb stomping. Some of those videos are ridiculous. Five guys repeatedly kicking an unconscious victim in the head. If I’m in that position that’s what I’m thinking about and what I’m going to make sure doesn’t happen to me.

I’ve got two elderly in my family that died from falls (not immediately but it started the downhill decline)

A push like that on to concrete can be deadly for an elderly person

Don’t initiate physical potentially life threatening contact then wonder why you’re dead ;)
 
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Unca Walt

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Who initiated the confrontation?

Who was born first? That person was old enough to know better that to walk into a parking lot where someone is being a total asshole about parking.

Who wanted a hot dog enough to get out of the car? Gee... if he din' go get that hot dog... there'd be no asshole illegal parking, thereby provoking the born-first guy.

Who decided to carry? Well... he figured as he got older, his Kung-fu was not adequate for the changing violence level of the society we have (promoted by the MSM for money).

So it is MSM's fault (partially) -- say 40%.

And the actual physical aggressor's fault for initiating serious -- possibly unlimited (Read: POTENTIALLY FATAL) -- personal violence against an elderly (PITA) man, say 57%.

And it is the old guy's fault for being born first, thereby being used to a lifetime of people simply not being shits, resulting in him being a PITA when people behave like shits: 1%.

Being there: 1%.

...and getting too old to beat Jet Li -- thereby going heavy just in case there is an encounter with an actual physical aggressor that attacked him. Give it 1%.

For a total of 3% for all of those sins.

Lotsa questions that can be twisted to somehow relate to the subject to bolster feelings. To DIRECTLY address your exact question, the driver of the car (AKA: Asshole) initiated the confrontation by parking yclept.



Oh... My gawd. I just used "yclept" in a sentence. Really did. Jeez.


ONE MO' LESSON TO BE LEARNED:

The old guy is old. He is gonna get older. The violent bully is NOT gonna get older. The old guy was heavy because of the very real risk old guys now have in our FUBAR society. And if the old guy has an injury, there is a good chance the PITA will sue the dead guy and the female that was gonna help stomp the old guy... and collect a bundle.

So which was smarter? Hm?
 
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hammerhead

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Who was born first? That person was old enough to know better that to walk into a parking lot where someone is being a total asshole about parking.

Who wanted a hot dog enough to get out of the car? Gee... if he din' go get that hot dog... there'd be no asshole illegal parking, thereby provoking the born-first guy.

Who decided to carry? Well... he figured as he got older, his Kung-fu was not adequate for the changing violence level of the society we have (promoted by the MSM for money).

So it is MSM's fault (partially) -- say 40%.

And the actual physical aggressor's fault for initiating serious -- possibly unlimited (Read: POTENTIALLY FATAL) -- personal violence against an elderly (PITA) man, say 57%.

And it is the old guy's fault for being born first, thereby being used to a lifetime of people simply not being shits, resulting in him being a PITA when people behave like shits: 1%.

Being there: 1%.

...and getting too old to beat Jet Li -- thereby going heavy just in case there is an encounter with an actual physical aggressor that attacked him. Give it 1%.

For a total of 3% for all of those sins.

Lotsa questions that can be twisted to somehow relate to the subject to bolster feelings. To DIRECTLY address your exact question, the driver of the car (AKA: Asshole) initiated the confrontation by parking yclept.



Oh... My gawd. I just used "yclept" in a sentence. Really did. Jeez.


ONE MO' LESSON TO BE LEARNED:

The old guy is old. He is gonna get older. The violent bully is NOT gonna get older. The old guy was heavy because of the very real risk old guys now have in our FUBAR society. And if the old guy has an injury, there is a good chance the PITA will sue the dead guy and the female that was gonna help stomp the old guy... and collect a bundle.

So which was smarter? Hm?
Being old gives some a little leeway for not keeping up with things but it doesn't excuse giving people crap for doing something wrong. Especially when it doesn't affect them personally.
 

Hystckndle

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But only when he saw the gun. Up until then he was ok with physically dominating the smaller guy.
...and again, no words justify the use of force. The BF is the one who crossed the line first by physically assaulting the guy, simply because he dared to call them on their bad behavior.



I have little doubt that she got out with the intent to help her BF throw down on the guy. Why else would she get out at that point? Her passenger was coming. She should have been preparing to go. You don't prepare to go by getting out of the car. At that point she could have easily ended the confrontation by telling her BF to get in and then vacating the parking spot. They knew they were parked wrong.



That's a big part of the problem too. Seems half the f'ing population is now handicapped in some way.

Exactly,
when he saw the gun.
That is the part I was getting at.
It is that little snippet, asside from the whole FUBAR confrontation.
That I got the most out of.
 

Ensoniq

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Who initiated the confrontation?

Dead guy initiated both the physical confrontation (with the push) and the start of the incident (by parking illegally)
 

hammerhead

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Dead guy initiated both the physical confrontation (with the push) and the start of the incident (by parking illegally)
I suppose he was just fulfilling his civic obligation by harassing those illegal parkers. We need more citizens like him. Not sure how'd they'd treat people that spit on the sidewalks.
 

mtnman

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Who initiated the confrontation?
The dead guy. I read all these replies and I'm glad some of you were not on my jury. This is a real simple case, keep your hands to yourself and you won't end up dead.
 

hoarder

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I think the busybody verbally initiated the confrontation. The dead guy initiated violence. The busybody probably needs to spend a few nights in jail with Tyrone to adjust his attitude, but I don't think he needs to spend the rest of his life in prison. They were both stupid.

30 years ago I worked with a guy who had Authoritarian Personality Disorder. He was a volunteer firemen on his time off. One time he noticed a Black guy parking his car in front of a fire hydrant (there wasn't any fire in progress) and he gave the driver a ration of shet. I guess he didn't understand the violent nature of Black people but he showed up for work the next day with two black eyes. He needed them.
 

Joe King

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I think the busybody verbally initiated the confrontation. The dead guy initiated violence. The busybody probably needs to spend a few nights in jail with Tyrone to adjust his attitude, but I don't think he needs to spend the rest of his life in prison. They were both stupid.
True, but whether we like it or not, he has the same Right as all of us to speak to others in public. There's no law against saying something to someone, and they as well have the same Right to speak back. (or not) What they do not have is the Right to use force in response to someones words.

We may all agree that in hindsight, the best course of action would have been to not say anything to begin with. However, if no one ever points out other peoples bad behavior in the public areas, people will end up doing all manner of f'ed up shit. Sometimes people need to have something said to them. Was this one of those times? I dunno. Maybe, maybe not.
...but the fact remains that it is well within everyone's Right to say something to others when in public. Be it a friendly "hello", or an informative "hey, you do realize that's a handicap space, right?"

In fact, had the people merely mistakenly parked there, it might be nice for someone to mention something so they could potentially avoid getting a ticket.
I've done similar myself. See someone whose taillights are out. Catch up to 'em at a light or something, get their attention and tell 'em their lights are out. Usually they're real happy to hear it.
 

hoarder

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...but the fact remains that it is well within everyone's Right to say something to others when in public. Be it a friendly "hello", or an informative "hey, you do realize that's a handicap space, right?"
That conjures up memories of old Western movies where the antagonist, wanting a duel, tells his victim "you're yeller".
Sick as that is, the days of the wild West would be an improvement over what we have today. I don't disagree with you. I just hate busybodies and the thought of one thinking his CWP makes him a cop just makes me want to spit up.
 

Joe King

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That conjures up memories of old Western movies where the antagonist, wanting a duel, tells his victim "you're yeller".
Sick as that is, the days of the wild West would be an improvement over what we have today. I don't disagree with you. I just hate busybodies and the thought of one thinking his CWP makes him a cop just makes me want to spit up.

Do we know that is the attitude he approached the driver with? Did he in fact walk up to the car initially speaking in a derogatory tone and/or manner?
Or did he merely attempt to inform the driver that they may have unknowingly parked in a handicap spot and was responded to in a manner that was abusive and/or aggressive?

This is something we do not know at this time. The video does not include audio.

Should we just assume that he was verbally abusive from the get go? Or that he was verbally abusive at all?

Also, we do not know what was said as the guy was being shoved. There could have been verbal threats of further violence. Someone violently shoves you backwards with verbal threats of further violence, would you shoot at that point? Or wait to see if they start beating you? If you wait that long, you may not be able to use your gun.
 

DodgebyDave

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So far we are all in agreement. This kind of silly hassle just ain't worth your time!
 

southfork

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Well if we’re going there

Here’s the girl slap of all time (she had it comin) make sure sound is up a 1’10”

K-whack


She shoulld be charged with assualt , race is not a defense for stupidity and arrogance
 

southfork

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Need more people to mind their own fking businees and most of this shit goes away, I dont much care what you do as long as your not bothering me or my family or an innocent person, why help .gov fill their coffers and be their whores
 

newmisty

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Parking spot duel ruled self defense...

 

Joe King

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Then there's this.


Florida man charged with murder after fight over handicapped parking space turns deadly
FORT LAUDERDALE, FL (AP) - A South Florida man has been charged with murder after being accused of stabbing another man during a dispute over a handicapped parking spot.

Oswald Zambrano died Thursday, more than 10 days after the confrontation.

The South Florida Sun Sentinel reports that Zambrano was parked in a handicapped spot outside a daycare when Julio Ramos berated him for illegally using the parking spot.

Authorities say Ramos stabbed Zambrano as the argument escalated.

Ramos is charged with second-degree murder.
 

DodgebyDave

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I'm getting a boat and sailing away.....................................effing fools.
 

itsamess

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That's manslaughter. The old man was in no imminent danger. He survived the push and took vengeance.

Actually the law is that you feel your life is in imminent danger in florida and you can't flee. When the scumbag knocked the old man down he took away his flight option not to mention the perp kept coming at him so he most likely would of been in imminent danger. Case over. Was a jury foreman in Florida with judge giving said instructions.
 

Joe King

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^^^^ those two cops are full of crap. They don't even get the basic facts right. According to the one on the left, both the man and woman got out and went into the store and then were confronted.
...but if you watch the vid, anyone can see that the woman did not get out until her bf came back out of the store. Small error, but demonstrates a lack of being able to remember what was actually seen. I'd expect better from a cop when it comes to getting basic facts correct.

They also say that if they were violently shoved to the ground in an unprovoked attack, that they would not draw their gun and fire. Does anyone reading truly believe that? I don't.

They also say that cops are held to a higher standard than regular people are. Yea right! lol That's why the departments bend over backwards trying to cover for and justify their officers actions and look at regular people as potential criminals.
 

hammerhead

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The two drivers of the two vehicles that pulled into the parking lot both took a substantial amount of time to exit their cars and both drivers were looking at little bitch confronting the person in the car that was parked in the handicap spot which would cause me to surmise that fore mentioned little bitch was being very confrontational.
 
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DodgebyDave

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He's been arrested and charged. WE will see how it plays out
 

Joe King

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^^^ here we go. Travon Martin 2.0
 

Fatrat

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May not send him to jail, but sure going to cost him some money....
 

Goldhedge

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True the guy backed up when he saw the gun...

However, how would the old guy know the backup movement wasn't a ploy to pull his own gun out and start shooting?

Feign helplessness and then attack?
 

Ensoniq

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Only takes one to go home free
 

Vlad The Impaler

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He's now been charged. I was just banned from a Facebook page for using logic and reason with the folks that want to crucify the shooter. DA says he has a history of road rage and branching a gun. Heresay I called it. Banned.
 

Joe King

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Detectives revealed on Monday that Drejka had threatened three other drivers previously with a gun in road rage disputes
Yea, that's not gonna play well for him in Court.


As far as this particular incident goes, one thing I was thinking about is that if a potential assailant is within 21' of a person, that person will not have time to pull a gun in defense if that potential assailant decides to go on attack and charge the person. That's when you truly end up with a Travon Martin-type of situation. Ie: on your back with someone on top of you pummeling you as you try to fish your gun out in order to make it stop.
...and that guy was well within 21'. Had he waited to see what was coming next, he wouldn't have had time to defend himself.

So many people are saying that he shouldn't have pulled his gun until being attacked further, are basically saying you can't shoot someone until they are physically on you and assaulting you. Oh wait, he did physically assault him and no State that I know of permits the use of force in response to verbal provocation.

I still would like to know why the woman got out of the car. I can't help but to think that the two of them would have proceeded to beat the crap outta the guy had he not pulled the gun.

 

Ensoniq

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Can’t help but post the justified 21 foot rule video

 

Son of Gloin

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That's manslaughter. The old man was in no imminent danger. He survived the push and took vengeance.
Yes, exactly. Drejka, or whatever his name is, is guilty of manslaughter, just like that white Hispanic dude* who killed Trayvon Martin. Drejka brought a gun into a volatile situation that he created and a man ended up dead because of it. In both cases, these men were very reckless with their behavior, knowing they were carrying a weapon on their person. They instigated these situations over trivialities, neither of them having any business questioning the behavior of the people who eventually ended up dead. What business was it of Drejka if someone was parked in the handicapped zone? At most, he could have just pointed it out and walked away, but he made a big issue of it. Now that other guy is dead. Self defence? His life wasn't in danger at all, just his dignity.

*Zimmermann.
 
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TAEZZAR

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Dashcam video shows him shouting: 'I've got a pistol. Do you want me to shoot?'

As that old saying goes, be careful of what you ask for , or close to that!!
Dumbshit got what he deserved !
 

Po'boy

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OK, but we don't know what she was saying to him to keep him engaged. Maybe if she kept her mouth shut, it would have ended different.
Maybe if her entitled ass didn't park in a spot for handicapped people because she wasn't disabled but in a hurry her man would be alive.
 

TAEZZAR

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Maybe if her arrogant entitled ass didn't park in a spot for handicapped people because she wasn't disabled but in a hurry her man would be alive.

Just a little enhancement of an otherwise great comment !!
 

TAEZZAR

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Florida guy gets a manslaughter charge. I carry too. What do I think..

I think when the cops are held to the same standards as we are, I will start to agree with the criticisms of the stand your ground situations.
Cops are trained, or should be, in how to handle a volatile situation, some do it well & others overreact & kill people, many times innocent people die & the cop walks away free. THIS IS WRONG !
 
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Uncle

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She gets out of the car as she sees boyfriend walking up, just before
he shoves the guy.
I had to watch it 2 or 3 times to see her as she is mentioned as getting out of the car.
When boyfriend is walking out of store towards them she slides out of car.

Of course...iffen ya meant that in another way...I get it too.
Regards U,

Stacker

I didn't see your reply until the thread was resurrected.

I would hesitate to call any female examples on this thread a 'woman'. I think my original reply was to the train-smack.

Golden Regards
Uncle
 

Fatrat

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He may get off with a self-defense claim, but he will be broke soon. He didn't even make bail.
 

Son of Gloin

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I wouldn't have shot McGlockton. He was not continuing the attack, no major injury was done. There was no reason to take a man's life over stupidity, on everyone's part.