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Gun purchase advice?

GOLDBRIX

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#41
"Glock" Why would I want to shoot a gun whose name translates to "Bell" ?
I can ring Bells or break Bells all day long with my Berettas, SIG M400, Mossy 590 in 12ga. Just Sayin'


Err, I mean I COULD HAVE before my boating accident. Same one I lost all my Silver and Gold in. Terrible just Terrible. I gotta get me an Ice Pack now.
 

ttazzman

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#42
You can afford Pappys!? What the hell, man. Are you made of cash? I only know of one seller who even has the stuff for sale and they ask $1,000 a bottle. I hope you have a better source.
LOL.....the trick is to take the first shot out of a Pappys bottle you refilled with JD......all those thereafter you take out of the Pappys bottle you refilled with even williams gotta know your limitations.......
 

Aurumag

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#43
Aurumag, dude! You like the High Powers? To me, the Browning High Power is handgun perfection. I love them so much I own three of them. Shooting a High Power is like handgun nirvana.
Believe it or not, I had three grandfathers.

One of them served in the US Army in WW1 - no guns.

Two of them served in WW2 - both were carpenters, and one of them built a secret uber-arsenal with an entrance behind a kitchen bookshelf; from him I inherited three POS .22s.

The other grandfather as far as I knew, did not have any interest in firearms; or so I thought:
From him I inherited two identical Belgian Browning Highpowers and two metric FALs. And mags and milsurp ammo.

Same grandmother for both of them, of course.
 

Son of Gloin

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#44
Believe it or not, I had three grandfathers.

One of them served in the US Army in WW1 - no guns.

Two of them served in WW2 - both were carpenters, and one of them built a secret uber-arsenal with an entrance behind a kitchen bookshelf; from him I inherited three POS .22s.

The other grandfather as far as I knew, did not have any interest in firearms; or so I thought:
From him I inherited two identical Belgian Browning Highpowers and two metric FALs. And mags and milsurp ammo.

Same grandmother for both of them, of course.
How cool is that? Two Belgian HP's and two FAL's. Plus ammo. I've never shot an FAL, but the High Powers are wonderful to shoot, aren't they? I've owned dozens of handguns from many manufacturers, but nothing beats a Belgian made Browning HP.

I had only two grandfathers. One didn't leave me anything except wonderful memories. He took me fishing and camping and told me stories of the people who he worked with and who lived in his neighborhood through the years. The other grandfather went through the Battle of the Bulge. He hardly ever talked to me. It's just the way he was, mostly silent. But, he took a Belgian FN .25 automatic from a captured German officer at some point during the war. It went to my dad and then me. It's still in nice condition and functions well. I don't shoot it much, though.
 

SilverCity

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#45
Booze and guns in the same thread? Hmmmm.

My last word on Glocks, they are an armorer's dream. As an NRA instructor and Glock armorer I can keep a number of them operational with minimal cost of easily obtainable spare parts--interchangeable across models and calibers--think equiping family members, neighbors, militia, even local police during SHTF.

Something that may be lost on many of you bubbas. Good luck when your expensive sissy pistols need fixin'. In your case think "a pair and a spare" or "two is one and one is none". Just saying...

For what it's worth, all my grandfathers left me was good lookin' genes. LOL

SC
 
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GOLDBRIX

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#47
My "sissy pistol" is designed to STAY "operational" . M9 / FS92 got 32 YEARS of military abuse and documented issues.
Let me know when SIG or Glock get to 32 years of Military use and abuse. And what you have left to repair / replace.

"... After twenty years of strangers shooting, carrying ,clearing, loading, shooting, hammering tent pegs and occasionally cleaning them, the M9s in service today are in bad shape. Once the armory guy cleared an M9 and handed it to me. It was so loose it felt like duct tape and prayer were the only things holding it together. The tolerances were so bad I could send the locked back slide into battery by merely rocking the pistol once from back to front.
By comparison, a Model 92F I bought secondhand as an ex-LE trade-in handles like a dream. Tight tolerances, smooth action and dead-on accurate. It was made in 1987 and it never malfunctioned once. Neither has the purchased-new 2013 model 92FS that I carry now, 2000 rounds later. So when you hear a prior-service vet dog the Beretta, remember that he or she was the latest user of one very abused gun."...
That’s why I have to chuckle at the idea that issuing (INSERT FAVORITE BRAND HERE) pistols would be better then the M9. Lend your Glock 17/HK USP/SIG P226 to Cletus for two decades, don’t change the recoil springs, slap in substandard ProMags and use it in the Middle East. I’ll bet it won’t do any better at all. It’s a sad fact that no matter how tough you make a gun, there’s an airman, marine, sailor, and soldier out there who can break it.

So with that background established, don’t write off the M9 – or that 92FS in your local gun store counter – just yet, despite the negative reports you may hear from our service members. I haven’t, and as I type this, my Beretta stands loaded and ready for the defense of myself, my family, and the mini-castle we inhabit.


http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/10/daniel-zimmerman/beretta-m9-gets-respect/
















































































































































































































































































































































































 

SilverCity

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#48
Ouch. Guess I touched a nerve....well, good. Keeps you thinking. And what is the military transitioning to now? Polymer framed, striker fired modular Sig P320 (bulk order price ~$220). Time will tell how they hold up.

Don't fall it love with your bullet hose. That's all it does...throw bullets. It's just a tool for most rational people. I know bubbas gotta show 'em off. My comment to the Sig fans showing pictures of their overpriced collections on another forum: "Sigs (and expensive 1911s) are God's way of telling you that you have too much money. Have you given any money to the poor lately?" LOL. I got crickets...

After nearly 70 years of shooting and handling guns, everything will eventually break if used enough. Round counts/service life on that Beretta? Army said years ago in a report mentioned in The American Rifleman, about 30,000 on the slide and 15,000 on the frame. Service life on the Glock--numerous competition and SOF types that actually keep records? As high as 100,000 or more. Glock museum has a G17 with (reportedly) 347,000 rounds. Polymer frames flex more which helps to relieve mechanical stress on the frames leading to longer service life--small parts not withstanding. Not to start a pi$$ing contest, but it is what it is.

My advice is about staying alive. Good luck everyone...and I mean that sincerely.

SC
 
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Son of Gloin

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#49
Ouch. Guess I touched a nerve....well, good. Keeps you thinking. And what is the military transitioning to now? Polymer framed, striker fired modular Sig P320 (bulk order price ~$220). Time will tell how they hold up.

Don't fall it love with your bullet hose. That's all it does...throw bullets. It's just a tool for most rational people. I know bubbas gotta show 'em off. My comment to the Sig fans showing pictures of their overpriced collections on another forum: "Sigs (and expensive 1911s) are God's way of telling you that you have too much money. Have you given any money to the poor lately?" LOL. I got crickets...

After nearly 70 years of shooting and handling guns, everything will eventually break if used enough. Round counts/service life on that Beretta? Army said years ago in a report mentioned in The American Rifleman, about 30,000 on the slide and 15,000 on the frame. Service life on the Glock--numerous competition and SOF types that actually keep records? 100,000. Not to start a pi$$ing contest, but it is what it is.

My advice is about staying alive. Good luck everyone...and I mean that sincerely.

SC
Are you a socialist? Only a socialist/commie would tell other people how to spend their hard-earned money. Just wondering.
 

SilverCity

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#50
No, but I'm a social animal...with some honest opinions which is what the OP was asking for in the first place. New shooters often actually ask for advice in introductory classes I sometimes teach...and I give it without reservation.

For the record, I am a Sig fan and former owner...two P220s, a P239 (40), and two P239 9mms (one stolen and one a friend really wanted). I lean to the more inexpensive pistols anyway since my adult kids, nephews, nieces and most students can't afford much right now.

Two new entry models I am looking at testing are the either compact or duty-sized, hammer-fired, and not expensive Sig P250 (sale prices less than 400) and the aforementioned Walther Creed. Since I don't get private funding to test them I do it on my own.

SC
 
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Son of Gloin

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#51
No, but I'm a social animal...with some honest opinions which is what the OP was asking for in the first place. New shooters often actually ask for advice in introductory classes I sometimes teach...and I give it without reservation.

SC
Understood. But, asking people who buy Sigs and high end 1911's if they give money to the poor is a commie's perspective on personal cash flow. Are you trying to suggest that their money would be better used if they spent it as you wished? You know, "That car, house, pool, vacation, gun, etc. that you bought is expensive. You should have spent less and given more away. Here, give me your cash and I'll use it better. I'm smarter and wiser than you." That's the commie perspective. If you like glocks, buy a hundred of them. Don't try to shame other people who like Sigs and 1911's.
 

SilverCity

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#52
Not shaming...just funnin'

Some folks get discouraged when they can't afford a $1000 plus pistol and I try to steer them to something affordable and serviceable that's all.

If I had big bucks (I don't)...I have owned a few high end pistols, firearms, etc. but they bore me eventually and soon get sold. I am one who has never (repeat never) been impressed with wealth, fame, fancy cars, high maintenance women, big opulent homes, expensive vacations (I've seen the world)--anything overpriced, overrated, or conspicuously consumptive--I like utilitarian. That's just me.

Seen too many kill themselves to achieve--what? At the end it is all wood, hay, stubble. My wealth is invested in my children and grandchildren and other more eternal dwellings.

sorry for waxing philosophical

SC
 
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Son of Gloin

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#54
Not shaming...just funnin'

Some folks get discouraged when they can't afford a $1000 plus pistol and I try to steer them to something affordable and serviceable that's all.

If I had big bucks (I don't) I have owned a few high end pistols, firearms, etc. but they bore me eventually and soon get sold. I am one who has never (repeat never) been impressed with wealth, fame, fancy cars, high maintenance women, big opulent homes, expensive vacations (I've seen the world)--anything overpriced, overrated, or conspicuously consumptive--I like utilitarian. That's just me.

Seen too many kill themselves to achieve--what? At the end it is all wood, hay, stubble. My wealth is invested in my children and grandchildren and other more eternal dwellings.

sorry for waxing philosophical

SC
Good perspective. Spending your life to achieve excess wealth and flashy things is a waste of life. There are many things that are much more important. Your time with your kids and grandkids is irretrievable, if you don't make the best of it.
 

Aurumag

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#55
Not shaming...just funnin'

Some folks get discouraged when they can't afford a $1000 plus pistol and I try to steer them to something affordable and serviceable that's all.

If I had big bucks (I don't)...I have owned a few high end pistols, firearms, etc. but they bore me eventually and soon get sold. I am one who has never (repeat never) been impressed with wealth, fame, fancy cars, high maintenance women, big opulent homes, expensive vacations (I've seen the world)--anything overpriced, overrated, or conspicuously consumptive--I like utilitarian. That's just me.

Seen too many kill themselves to achieve--what? At the end it is all wood, hay, stubble. My wealth is invested in my children and grandchildren and other more eternal dwellings.

sorry for waxing philosophical

SC
Never apologize for sharing your wisdom!

I used to have enough money to buy expensive guns, decent cars AND donate to my church. I even own a couple nice suits and some expensive shoes, too.

I am still blessed with the wife of my youth and a growing family, but only enough FRNs for daily bread and a roof over my head.

However, when I did have money to invest, the best investments in the long run, far and away, turned out to be guns and ammo.
I stocked up on ARs, spare mags and parts, crates of milsurp .308 and 5.56, .22LR and when times were REALLY tough, I sold most of it at a nice profit.

I was forced to sell most of my Ag also...

But, I am the type of person who would save money for superior longarm optics, while wearing rags and driving a 20 year old P/U truck.

Weird, huh?
 

Aurumag

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#56
That's because he didn't pay for it! If he had he would have taken better care of it.
When I was in the Army, I took excellent care of my weapons and gear, but I did abuse the vehicles.

During basic training, while everyone else was field stripping their 1911s during Sunday afternoon weapons cleaning, I was completely dismantling mine.

My Drill Sergeant warned me that there would be hell to pay if I could not reassemble the lower receiver of my assigned firearm.

My assigned 1911 was still a rattling POS, but it functioned properly after re-assembly.

The M-16 was ok, but my all-time favorite gun, bar none, remains to this day the M-60. I took good care of all those too...
 

Montecristo

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#57
I'm not real comfortable with guns yet. But it is something I want to learn more about and practice with. There's a new gun range being built not very far from our house and I want to start going and shooting mostly for fun. The new range and store should be done in a couple months. I also want to renew my license to carry that I let expire.

A few years back I bought a 9mm HK that I really liked, my intention was to carry, but I never got comfortable with it. I didn't go to the range and practice and consequently it has been just sitting doing nothing. I determined the reason I didn't carry it was that as a beginner it was just too big and I didn't make the effort to get comfortable with it.

I'm looking again at guns, with the intention of carrying it all the time and going to the new range that will be very convenient to stop in and practice. I am looking at 3 guns and I wanted to get some thoughts from you guys about the guns, pros and cons, and just general advice.

They are:
1.) Ruger LC9 -S
2.)S&W Shield
3.) Glock 43

I have seen all these guns and held them, but not shot them, and none of them stood out as feeling better than the others.
So, my son and I have gone to the range twice now to rent and shoot varius guns to see what we like.
Since I don't really know what I'm looking for I can't give you a detailed review beyond what we've liked and what we haven't cared for.
Ruger LC9-s
I was leaning towards this gun before I shot it. After shooting it, it is the gun we've liked least so far.
Glock43
It was OK. Didn't really seem to grab me. But it wasn't bad, it seemed like work to shoot.
S & W Shield
My son's favorite so far. I liked it too, but my son really like it.
Sig Sauer P938
This is the one I really liked. It was a pleasure to shoot. It just felt good to me. Shot very easy.

We will probably go back again a few more times before making a decision. Next time we will throw a revolver into the mix, but we are starting to narrow down our choices.

Thanks for all the recommendations and advice so far. I'll keep you guys posted.
 

Silvergun

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#59
Asking a question like this you are going to get a handful of diffrent answers as everyone prefers what they own to "justify" their purchase.

The Ruger LC9 is eh, shitty trigger just like I am about to explain with the 38 revolvers. Both the G43 and SW Shield are single stack 9s that are a dream to shoot. It does not feel like you are shooting a carry gun whatsoever and it is easily concealable. Some in this thread has recommended 38 revolvers (airweights, etc. with recessed hammers) which are easy to carry but the trigger is HOOORRRRRRRRRIIIBBBBBBBLLLEEE (much like the LC9, but the LC9 is a bit better, albiet not by much). If you do not shoot much I highly recommend staying away from this option. Double action only triggers usually cause fidgeting of the trigger finger, which causes misses. G19, XD, (striker fired) etc which have also be recommended in this thread are great handguns as well, but they are bigger because they are double stacked magazines. Even a G26 is very noticeable in comparison to a G43 or shield. What the G26, G19, XD sub, M&P sub, etc. have going for it is magazine uniformity to their full size versions. If you dont have both pistols I would go with a single stack. It really makes a difference going to single stack. It conceals MUCH easier.

The ease of a striker fired G43 or shield handles well (especially with pinky extension), shoots great and is significantly easier to conceal. They are also cheap. In a high stress situation you want easy functioning. Buy either one and don't look back. You will not regret it.
 

Silvergun

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#60
I have no glocks.

Don't want any either

Glocks seem to be the choice of niggers so I'll stick with Springfield and Smith an Wesson.
This is the most ignorant, retarded thing i've read on this site in awhile. You sir are an idiot. Glock is probably the most widely used pistol in law enforcement across the world...

Most guns in the inner cities are stolen. The highest purchased is probably a shitty hipoint.
 

Rusty Shackelford

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<SLV>

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#65
So, my son and I have gone to the range twice now to rent and shoot varius guns to see what we like.
Since I don't really know what I'm looking for I can't give you a detailed review beyond what we've liked and what we haven't cared for.
Ruger LC9-s
I was leaning towards this gun before I shot it. After shooting it, it is the gun we've liked least so far.
Glock43
It was OK. Didn't really seem to grab me. But it wasn't bad, it seemed like work to shoot.
S & W Shield
My son's favorite so far. I liked it too, but my son really like it.
Sig Sauer P938
This is the one I really liked. It was a pleasure to shoot. It just felt good to me. Shot very easy.

We will probably go back again a few more times before making a decision. Next time we will throw a revolver into the mix, but we are starting to narrow down our choices.

Thanks for all the recommendations and advice so far. I'll keep you guys posted.
I think the Shield 9mm is a fantastic value, and I'm looking at it for myself. However, my EDC is a Ruger LCR .38 special. You should give it a try. Very nice trigger, exceptionally light, and good ergonomics. I prefer revolvers for EDC because the brass stays in the gun. This means that it isn't bouncing on a windshield during a car jacking, and most importantly, it isn't laying anywhere TELLING STORIES to the investigators. I think in any shooting situation being able to keep the brass in the gun strengthens your legal defense. I prefer pocket carry with the Desantis Nemesis pocket holster. If I feel like I'm in an uncomfortable situation I can have my hand in my pocket and look nonchalant without raising any suspicion.

For 9mm doublestack compact duty pistol nothing is better than the CZ-P01. I don't like safeties on defensive pistols (like the half dozen or so on the XD). This is one reason I like the Glock. But the Glock has the ergonomics of a 2x4 with the reliability of a Toyota. The CZ-P01 drives like a BMW and was torture tested and approved for use by NATO forces.
 

ttazzman

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#67
Asking a question like this you are going to get a handful of diffrent answers as everyone prefers what they own to "justify" their purchase.

The Ruger LC9 is eh, shitty trigger just like I am about to explain with the 38 revolvers. Both the G43 and SW Shield are single stack 9s that are a dream to shoot. It does not feel like you are shooting a carry gun whatsoever and it is easily concealable. Some in this thread has recommended 38 revolvers (airweights, etc. with recessed hammers) which are easy to carry but the trigger is HOOORRRRRRRRRIIIBBBBBBBLLLEEE (much like the LC9, but the LC9 is a bit better, albiet not by much). If you do not shoot much I highly recommend staying away from this option. Double action only triggers usually cause fidgeting of the trigger finger, which causes misses. G19, XD, (striker fired) etc which have also be recommended in this thread are great handguns as well, but they are bigger because they are double stacked magazines. Even a G26 is very noticeable in comparison to a G43 or shield. What the G26, G19, XD sub, M&P sub, etc. have going for it is magazine uniformity to their full size versions. If you dont have both pistols I would go with a single stack. It really makes a difference going to single stack. It conceals MUCH easier.

The ease of a striker fired G43 or shield handles well (especially with pinky extension), shoots great and is significantly easier to conceal. They are also cheap. In a high stress situation you want easy functioning. Buy either one and don't look back. You will not regret it.
To each their own....I own and shoot about every type of concealable handgun and each type has its pros and cons....and I respectfully disagree with some of your statements or the premise of which they were made...

in a high stress situation with fractions of seconds to react and short distances .......trigger pull is the least of my concerns...my main concern is when i pull the trigger it goes bang....and if it doesnt i can pull the trigger again till it does, one handed.......hopefully a person has time to even draw the gun or get your hand on it in your pocket or purse and if i must i would like the option of fireing the gun from a pocket or purse without fouling a slide or hammer....i have no clue what "fidgeting of the trigger finger" is or how it applys to this sort of situation....

if you envision your wifes need for a firearm to be like on TV a running gun battle ....then of course you would need to train her, and things like trigger pull, reloadability, capacity, etc become more important...

like any tool i advocate for the right tool for the job,person,situation

CCW i usually carry either a rugerSP101 loaded with 357mag/laser grips...or..Kahr PM9 with a extra mag.....I provided the gals in my family with S&W airweights, hammerless, with laser grips, and 38sp +P loads...
 
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Son of Gloin

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#68
Speaking of being able to pull the trigger till it goes bang, if it doesn't go bang first pull, maybe you want to check out the Taurus Millenium PT111 G2. I'm not a big Taurus fan, but a friend of mine is considering this gun for his first purchase, so I've been looking at video reviews on this little gun. I have yet to see a negative review on it. It's compact, first of all, about the size of a glock 26, or thereabouts. It comes with two 12 round mags. It goes bang every time, according to everybody who's done a review on it, including Hickock45. It's accurate! Everybody shows nice groups with the dang little thing. It appears to be durable, with multiple shooters reporting over a thousand rounds fired, with no hickups or malfunctions. It has a frame mounted safety, if you choose to use it. It's cheap! It can be had for as little as $250! Easy to disassemble and reassemble. I'm thinking hard about buying one myself. Oh and yes, if it doesn't go bang first trigger pull, you can keep pulling the trigger till it does, or you chamber another round.
 

TAEZZAR

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#69
Sig and Smith would be my choices. Now do you want to spend $650 or $250? That is the question
Sometimes, it ain't about the money.
What is your life worth ???
I have 2 Sigs,226 & 228, an S&W & a Glock 17, 9mm, first gen.

All of them are damned reliable & comfortable to shoot!

My Glock had a cartridge failure & handled it quite well.
 

ttazzman

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#71
Make sure it is the heaviest solid steel gun you can reliably throw and hit something with when it runs out of ammo! Saw that in an old western once and it looked like a good last ditch strategy--second only to saving the last round for yourself.

Sorry, I just got up from a hard nap...

SC
Discussion and Disagreement are good for the Soul just like a good nap...

:) that ruger sp101.....outa do the job with 357mag....and solid steel if i run out...lol
 

Silvergun

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#72
To each their own....I own and shoot about every type of concealable handgun and each type has its pros and cons....and I respectfully disagree with some of your statements or the premise of which they were made...

in a high stress situation with fractions of seconds to react and short distances .......trigger pull is the least of my concerns...my main concern is when i pull the trigger it goes bang....and if it doesnt i can pull the trigger again till it does, one handed.......hopefully a person has time to even draw the gun or get your hand on it in your pocket or purse and if i must i would like the option of fireing the gun from a pocket or purse without fouling a slide or hammer....i have no clue what "fidgeting of the trigger finger" is or how it applys to this sort of situation....

if you envision your wifes need for a firearm to be like on TV a running gun battle ....then of course you would need to train her, and things like trigger pull, reloadability, capacity, etc become more important...

like any tool i advocate for the right tool for the job,person,situation

CCW i usually carry either a rugerSP101 loaded with 357mag/laser grips...or..Kahr PM9 with a extra mag.....I provided the gals in my family with S&W airweights, hammerless, with laser grips, and 38sp +P loads...
The sp101 and airweights are great guns. I actually own both, but don't fool yourself. Revolvers are old tech. I understand why you like them, my step dad is from an older generation and clings to his revolvers as well. The vast majority of people don't use them anymore for a reason. Look up respected professionals that teach classes and have experience that none of us come close to and see how many of them are carrying revolvers. They carry automatics for a reason because they are very reliable now.

My comment regarding pulling the trigger is valid. The extreme pulls on those revolvers in double action usually make people miss. Ya, the trigger is great if you cock it, but that isnt an option with a recessed hammer nor is it a good idea to expect you to do that under high stress. Reloading a revolver is slow, very slow. I will agree with you on reliability, but the extra reliability you have in a revolver versus a glock/shield is negligible. They both will go bang every time. Ill take 8 shots with fast reloading that I can get on target easily versus 5 shots of slow reloading with a way higher chance of missing my target. Reliability doesnt mean shit if you don't stop the threat with a well placed shot.


EDIT: Look at my avatar I love revolvers and i'm saying this. I own that exact gun. They are great, but ill take my M&P9, shield or G19 over it any day of the week. Also I want to note, that my sp101 gets awfully snappy with 357 magnum...
 
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ttazzman

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#74
discussing trigger pull weights.....sp101 DA mine is 12# factory........my sig p226 DA pull weight is 10# factory........in both cases SA is of course much less..........obviously a person needs to be strong enough to pull the weight....and i agree accuracy is directly connected to trigger pull weight....but at short distances im not sure that makes a difference same with mag capacity......90% of the issues gals i know have had to deal with occured in a parking lot with distances under 10yds and i base my opinions on that....

i also understand that most striker fired pistols that are basicly at half cock all the time the pulls are down in the 7# range and thus more accurate
 
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michael59

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#76
umm... the closer you are the more disruptive shit they enjoy. depends how close you want to be. If'n you can hit something and it feels right then get it. If'n you are putting holes in the barn in the next county then, then might want to reconsider. Remember that, that Bonney used a .32

shit; how many times must I use the same word in the same sentence?
 

Aurumag

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#77

<SLV>

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#78
3 yards 3 shots. How accurate do you need to be at that distance? Why do you need to even consider reloading? Too many people pick their defensive firearm based upon what they see in the movies. In reality it is far less glamorous and far more chaotic.
 

TAEZZAR

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#80
I have semi autos & revolvers. I like them both BUT don't forget that a cartridge failure will probably jam a semi auto &
a revolver will go to the next round. This could save your life !!

These failures can be from poor brass, improper powder loads or improper bullet seating. This is usually fatal for a semi auto.
BTW, all 3 are Winchester brass.

9mm cartridge failures (Medium).jpg