• Same story, different day...........year ie more of the same fiat floods the world
  • There are no markets
  • "Spreading the ideas of freedom loving people on matters regarding high finance, politics, constructionist Constitution, and mental masturbation of all types"

Hacking Team broke Bitcoin secrecy by targeting crucial wallet file

Unca Walt

Midas Member
Midas Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2011
Messages
7,081
Likes
7,879
Location
South Floriduh
#3
Roger that, Goldhedge.

About a year and a half ago, there was sumbody here (mebbe two sumbodies) that I PLEADED with to sell half their bitcoins when they reached over $1100.

I said that any encryption could and would be hacked.

"IMPOSSIBLE! The wallet is sacrosanct." they said.

Using Hacking Team's solution, it wouldn’t matter if a target had encrypted wallet.dat, nor if he or she was using an online wallet (such as Coinbase.com). The company's embedded keylogger would surely capture the relevant password. And as one leaked company e-mail explained, the Money Module feature automatically exported this data to the "evidence" portion of the Remote Control System software.
 

Mujahideen

Black Member
Midas Member
Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
9,184
Likes
15,082
Location
America!
#4
They pretty much infected the personal computer and stole passwords and the wallet, they didn't hack the block chain from what I understand.

Seems like nothing new.
 

BarnacleBob

GIM Founding Member & Mod.
Founding Member
Site Mgr
Site Supporter
Joined
Oct 15, 2012
Messages
9,232
Likes
10,795
Location
Ten-Oh-Cee
#5
Oops, seems like the crypto electronic cashless society idea just may implode before it even starts, at least until the entire user base is thoroughly secured..... A secure block chain is only half the issue if the user half's not secure in toto....
 

Ragnarok

I'd rather be
Midas Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
5,537
Likes
4,381
#7
If a code can be written, it can also be hacked, it's just a matter of time.

R.
 

Unca Walt

Midas Member
Midas Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2011
Messages
7,081
Likes
7,879
Location
South Floriduh
#8
I'm glad some can read.
"If a code can be written, it can also be hacked, it's just a matter of time."

I can read. And in the past, there are those (you?) who swore the wallet was unbreakable** <-- We'll come back to that... This was the ultimate in safety. This was in response to my cold, bold statement that: if bitcoins are blips in a computer (and they most ricky-tick are), then somebody -- and soon -- will figure out a way to access those blips.

Now we continue. OK. My first posit has been proven. Your first assertion has been refuted. But regarding the ** above... would you really stand there flatfooted and (given that bitcoins succeeds to your dreams) flatly state that an algorithm/code/yada CANNOT BE BROKEN??

If you answer in the affirmative, think about it: So did the Third Reich.


Just thought of another way of describing what happened: The ENCRYPTION was broken.

Here is how it went

The ENCRYPTION consisted of

1. The loser's computer (he even had a virus program I bet) The loser's computer gave up ALL his passwords for EVERYTHING.

2. The loser's passwords. The loser's passwords gave up the sooper sekrit unbreakable code which now was broken by the loudmouthed password file.

3. The sooper sekrit ubreakable code follows orders and opens the wallet.

4. The wallet is the very last, helpless, virginal (once) part of the

5. ENCRYPTION THAT WAS BROKEN. HELP YOURSELF TO ALL THEM BITCOINS.


Q.E.D.
 

Unca Walt

Midas Member
Midas Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2011
Messages
7,081
Likes
7,879
Location
South Floriduh
#10
No encryption broken, just password stolen. You encrypt your wallet file ofc.
(*sigh*)

Wayta miss the point, smartypants.

PAY ATTENTION THIS TIME:

I defined the "encryption" as the whole thing:

1. bitcoins (encrypted) in a computer. <-- Still with me? Can you follow that bitcoins ARE bits in a computer? OK.

2. the bitcoins are vulnerable (like I said) to theft.

3. the bitcoins were, yes, stolen. Oh, my. Even though you are standing there flatfooted and arguing semantics while the bitcoins now belong to someone else (the bitcoin thief).

You can play technical word-games (dangerous to do) with me, but the bottom line remains: All the fargin encryption extant HAS BEEN DEMONSTRATED TO BE INADEQUATE.

Can you follow: If there are ways (and there are) for passwords to be stolen, then the (*AHEM*) "encryption" can be broken in a heartbeat 100% of the time.

You sound like General Turgidson in the War Room: "We shouldn't condemn a whole program for just a little glitch."


And I dare you to answer this truthfully and cut the prevaricating bullshit. Do you or do you not agree:

"If a code can be written, it can also be hacked, it's just a matter of time."

HINT: Third Reich.

I DARE you to say "no".

This, BTW, DIRECTLY addresses your erroneous belief (so far) that the encryption is unbreakable. You know it is breakable. I know it is breakable. Every sumbitch reading this knows that your sacred encryption IS breakable.

Right?

Meanwhile, thieves can -- and have -- used a simple shortcut which goes right around your sacred code... and emptied the till.

Right?
 

Brent H

Silver Miner
Seeker
Joined
Apr 17, 2010
Messages
512
Likes
546
#11
The whole argument about whether wallets can be hacked is irrelevant, unless "Bitcoins" can be proven to exist.

Can you see a bitcoin? No.
Can you feel a bitcoin? No.
Can you hear a bitcoin? No.
How much does a bitcoin weigh? _____

So, people claim to own things that they can neither see, feel, hear, or weigh. How exactly does that work?
 
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
231
Likes
130
Location
Northwest
#12
The whole argument about whether wallets can be hacked is irrelevant, unless "Bitcoins" can be proven to exist.
They cannot be proven to exist, because they do not exist. You cannot point to anything in a wallet, blockchain or anywhere else and claim that this is a bitcoin. Bitcoins are not even represented as bits or digits -- they simply do not exist in reality, only abstractly.

What does exist is the blockchain, namely a ledger that contains all transactions among bitcoin holders, enabling determination of who has how much.
 

bemac

Midas Member
Midas Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2010
Messages
5,330
Likes
4,306
#13
They cannot be proven to exist, because they do not exist. You cannot point to anything in a wallet, blockchain or anywhere else and claim that this is a bitcoin. Bitcoins are not even represented as bits or digits -- they simply do not exist in reality, only abstractly.

What does exist is the blockchain, namely a ledger that contains all transactions among bitcoin holders, enabling determination of who has how much.
Are you suggesting something which only abstractly exists cannot have value?
 

Unca Walt

Midas Member
Midas Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2011
Messages
7,081
Likes
7,879
Location
South Floriduh
#14
Are you suggesting something which only abstractly exists cannot have value?
What he is "suggesting" is what he is saying:

"What does exist is the blockchain, namely a ledger that contains all transactions among bitcoin holders, enabling determination of who has how much."

Bemac: Whether men value the theoretical dungsyi <-- Mandarin for "thing" or not is absolutely not what we are discussing at all.

In fact, you make a point in favor of the "IT WILL GET STOLEN" already proven point. Yes, there are those who will/have put value on bitcoin.

And yes, as YOU are suggesting, since some see bitcoins as value, they WILL/HAVE BEEN stolen. Useless encryption or not.

There It Is.
 

Unca Walt

Midas Member
Midas Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2011
Messages
7,081
Likes
7,879
Location
South Floriduh
#15
Inspector Clueseau's "bimp" for smartypants:


(*sigh*)

Wayta miss the point, smartypants.

PAY ATTENTION THIS TIME:

I defined the "encryption" as the whole thing:

1. bitcoins (encrypted) in a computer. <-- Still with me? Can you follow that bitcoins ARE bits in a computer? OK.

2. the bitcoins are vulnerable (like I said) to theft.

3. the bitcoins were, yes, stolen. Oh, my. Even though you are standing there flatfooted and arguing semantics while the bitcoins now belong to someone else (the bitcoin thief).

You can play technical word-games (dangerous to do) with me, but the bottom line remains: All the fargin encryption extant HAS BEEN DEMONSTRATED TO BE INADEQUATE.

Can you follow: If there are ways (and there are) for passwords to be stolen, then the (*AHEM*) "encryption" can be broken in a heartbeat 100% of the time.

You sound like General Turgidson in the War Room: "We shouldn't condemn a whole program for just a little glitch."


And I dare you to answer this truthfully and cut the prevaricating bullshit. Do you or do you not agree:

"If a code can be written, it can also be hacked, it's just a matter of time."

HINT: Third Reich.

I DARE you to say "no".

This, BTW, DIRECTLY addresses your erroneous belief (so far) that the encryption is unbreakable. You know it is breakable. I know it is breakable. Every sumbitch reading this knows that your sacred encryption IS breakable.

Right?

Meanwhile, thieves can -- and have -- used a simple shortcut which goes right around your sacred code... and emptied the till.

Right?
 
Joined
Aug 4, 2010
Messages
112
Likes
28
Location
Norway, Oslo
#16
(*sigh*)

Wayta miss the point, smartypants.

PAY ATTENTION THIS TIME:

I defined the "encryption" as the whole thing:

1. bitcoins (encrypted) in a computer. <-- Still with me? Can you follow that bitcoins ARE bits in a computer? OK.

2. the bitcoins are vulnerable (like I said) to theft.

3. the bitcoins were, yes, stolen. Oh, my. Even though you are standing there flatfooted and arguing semantics while the bitcoins now belong to someone else (the bitcoin thief).

You can play technical word-games (dangerous to do) with me, but the bottom line remains: All the fargin encryption extant HAS BEEN DEMONSTRATED TO BE INADEQUATE.

Can you follow: If there are ways (and there are) for passwords to be stolen, then the (*AHEM*) "encryption" can be broken in a heartbeat 100% of the time.

You sound like General Turgidson in the War Room: "We shouldn't condemn a whole program for just a little glitch."


And I dare you to answer this truthfully and cut the prevaricating bullshit. Do you or do you not agree:

"If a code can be written, it can also be hacked, it's just a matter of time."

HINT: Third Reich.

I DARE you to say "no".

This, BTW, DIRECTLY addresses your erroneous belief (so far) that the encryption is unbreakable. You know it is breakable. I know it is breakable. Every sumbitch reading this knows that your sacred encryption IS breakable.

Right?

Meanwhile, thieves can -- and have -- used a simple shortcut which goes right around your sacred code... and emptied the till.

Right?
If you claim that you have proven that P = NP please post it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P_versus_NP_problem

By the way you can engrave your private key in gold with diamonds and dig it down. You do not need to store your private key on a computer drive.
 
Joined
Aug 4, 2010
Messages
112
Likes
28
Location
Norway, Oslo
#18
They cannot be proven to exist, because they do not exist. You cannot point to anything in a wallet, blockchain or anywhere else and claim that this is a bitcoin. Bitcoins are not even represented as bits or digits -- they simply do not exist in reality, only abstractly.

What does exist is the blockchain, namely a ledger that contains all transactions among bitcoin holders, enabling determination of who has how much.
This is how Bitcoins are born.
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Coinbase

Yes, out of thin air, but at a constant predictable rate.

-s-
 

Unca Walt

Midas Member
Midas Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2011
Messages
7,081
Likes
7,879
Location
South Floriduh
#20
Light bends around some people because of their density.
 

bemac

Midas Member
Midas Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2010
Messages
5,330
Likes
4,306
#22
Light bends around some people because of their density.
And some old people are just scared of technology. ;)

But seriously, I have never owned a bitcoin or any other digital currency, but if you can't see the future potential in it, you're not thinking it all through.
 

Usury

Platinum Bling
Platinum Bling
Joined
Apr 1, 2010
Messages
4,102
Likes
3,246
#23
BUT, BUT, BUT......IT CAN'T BE HACKED!!!!!
 

Usury

Platinum Bling
Platinum Bling
Joined
Apr 1, 2010
Messages
4,102
Likes
3,246
#24
(*sigh*)

"If a code can be written, it can also be hacked, it's just a matter of time."
Yep....this has been my contention from day one. If all the increase in hacking at banks, large businesses, federal government, etc. hasn't opened someone's eyes to this fact, then they want to be blind.
 

Mr.Jens

Seeker
Seeker
Joined
Jul 11, 2013
Messages
380
Likes
227
#25
And some old people are just scared of technology. ;)

But seriously, I have never owned a bitcoin or any other digital currency, but if you can't see the future potential in it, you're not thinking it all through.
Can I use it without the internet? Can I use it without electricity and without batteries? If not, I'm not interested.
 

Mujahideen

Black Member
Midas Member
Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
9,184
Likes
15,082
Location
America!
#26

bemac

Midas Member
Midas Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2010
Messages
5,330
Likes
4,306
#27
Can I use it without the internet? Can I use it without electricity and without batteries? If not, I'm not interested.
And that's fine. I have even better reasons to not buy/own bitcoin. That said, another person could argue you can't use gold/silver to purchase something over the internet, and then claim to not be interested if that's the case.
 

Strawboss

Joined GIM in 2005
Gold Chaser
Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
2,996
Likes
3,779
Location
Metro Detroit area
#28
Digital currency is the future we are headed into - I think we can all agree on that point. As Unca Walt has demonstrably proven - the current means of protecting the "accounts" is not as secure as it needs to be in order to facilitate global acceptance/trust...

When I polish off my crystal ball and gaze deeply into it - what I envision is where biometrics are included in the security somehow (fingerprints, retinal eye scan, perhaps an implanted RFID)...basically - mark of the beast stuff...

I dont think its possible to have an entirely secure system - there will always be theft. The trick is to keep it contained so that its a relatively minor issue in the grand scheme of things.