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Had a chat with the BATF lady on the phone

Vlad The Impaler

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#1
Maybe some of you are aware of this but it was news to me.

If you want to sell a gun to a person in another state and one of both do not allow private sales, I always thought that all you had to do was involve a gun dealer to do a background check for the transfer and it was good. Here is the catch, ONLY dealers can sell and transfer as such, you cannot. So if you hand the dealer the gun for the paper work guess what? You just surrendered the fire arm to the dealer and he does not have to give it back to you because he has the right to make sure you are not going to sell to the other party you met at the dealers place of business. You could hold the firearm and not surrender it and have dealer just take the info and run it but then it's really a private sale background check or not and that is not allowed.

Nice how they have intertwined the laws to catch it all. You can't even transfer between family members across state lines.
 
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michael59

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#2
Maybe some of you are aware of this but it was news to me.

If you want to sell a gun to a person in another state and one of both do not allow private sales, I always thought that all you had to do was involve a gun dealer to do a background check for the transfer and it was good. Here is the catch, ONLY dealers can sell and transfer as such, you cannot. So if you hand the dealer the gun for the paper work guess what? You just surrendered the fire arm to the dealer and he does not have to give it back to you because he has the right to make sure you are not going to sell to the other party you met at the dealers place of business. You could hold the firearm and not surrender it and have dealer just take the info and run it but then it's really a private sale background check or not and that is not allowed.

Nice how they have intertwined the laws to catch it all. You can't even transfer between family members across state lines.
You know what never stopped me? Laws. Bill of sale without the date is still a bill of sale.
 

Goldhedge

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#3
Cash

The mud elephant
wading through the sea
leaves no tracks
 

Bottom Feeder

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#4
Bill of sale without the date is still a bill of sale.
Really, micheal? I thought the date was important to validate the document.

BF
PS: just to add, Bottom Feeder here don't be breakin any of the rules the king imposes on us peasants.
 

FunnyMoney

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#5
The gov't has long since adjusted the meaning of the words in the English language.

The word "infringe" has practically lost all its' meaning already.
 

Buck

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#7
Don't answer, who here owns unregistered / unlicensed weapons?

LOL

yeah right
 

Buck

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#8
the part i really enjoyed was the part where i couldn't make a weapon and sell it...didn't see anything about Not Using It



all i'm saying is, nothing of mine exists unless i say it exists or i bother to show it off to others
i'm not saying violate anything, but, as an American Citizen, I do feel it necessary to ask:

Who the f made anyone in DC one of my parents?

i'm a big boy who follows what's necessary, that's my call



i'm only too afraid it's getting too easy to be caught while Using my weapons and until then
I Don't Own Any Weapons or PM's or anything else, I'm poor and will probably always remain that way
Thanks to My Leaders, I'm Poor, Taxed Into Poverty


All my stories here are Fables and outright Lies and the names have been changed to protect the guilty
 

Joe King

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#9
(full auto capability, even a little bit, is a violation of the NFA and gets you in big doodoo with the Feds)
So a gun can be a little bit full auto? Is that kinda like being a little bit pregnant?
 

Buck

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#11
First rule is every gun seller or buyer is an AFT agent. Rules Number two, the hit man you are trying to hire is a police department.
LOL
good advice and might i add:
Four Leaf Clovers are Lucky
 

Joe King

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#12
First rule is every gun seller or buyer is an AFT agent. Rules Number two, the hit man you are trying to hire is a police department.
Don't hire hitmen nor deal illegally in guns, and you should be alright then.
 

Joe King

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#13
Ok, so it is in fact possible to be a little bit full auto. Thanks for the expert advice @the_shootist !
 

Vlad The Impaler

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#14
For some reason I can't meet a buyer in another state to sell a gun with a dealer run background check but I can mail it as part of a gun broker sale. Can any FFL sort out the logic in that?
I
 

Aurumag

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#18
I was wading through some old papers yesterday and found some notes I took during my one and only conversation with the BATFE lady back in 2006:

"No, we will not be giving you the 50 (as in a count of fifty) 80% AR lowers for which you already paid, and no, you will not get your money back."

End of conversation.

No need to ask me how I feel about BATFE.
 

Strawboss

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#19
1. Shall not be infringed.
2. Always do your own "wet work". Never, ever contract out.
3. Never get caught with an unlicensed firearm.
4. Always conduct your illicit transactions naked in a steamroom or a hot tub. May sound strange - but, you have to ensure there are no recording devices of any kind present. Plausible deniability and all that...
5. Never purchase anything illicit by check or credit card.
6. Never bring a phone to a "meeting" - and always use an old car. In fact - keep a car handy that you have purchased but never actually got around to transferring the title/plates. The undated bill of sale will come in handy in the event you get pulled over...
7. Always make sure to wipe the car clean of prints when finished with it. Of course it wouldnt be a tragedy if the car was to spontaneously burst into flames or something...
8. Its not what they know - its what they can prove...
9. Never talk to police.
10. Never make posts like this on a forum unless a person is 100% sure they would never do any of the preceding items...all above items are posted in jest and do not reflect reality, past or present. In the event this post is ever presented as evidence in a court of law - let it be known that item 10 supercedes items 1-9 in their entirety...well - items 2-9 anyways...
 

chris_is_here

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#20
Who the f made anyone in DC one of my parents?
I covered this in a rant of mine on another thread, so I won't go into it here. Let's just say, it wasn't the peoples with average IQ's at or above 100. Hint: If you want to see what stupid people can achieve at the ballot box, check out the crisis in Venezuela. They actually got what they voted for.
 

DodgebyDave

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#21
I found a gun here in Florida, guy at the range just walked away and left it there. 2 days later, i lost an envelope with money in it at his friends house.

damnit!
 

Buck

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#22
what friend?
what money?
I've got neither...

you can ask any of 'em, I never buy any of 'em any beer, so they hate me

weapons?
we were talking about weapons?
i don't remember that...???

well, i don't buy any of 'em any weapons either...
 

the_shootist

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#23
what friend?
what money?
I've got neither...

you can ask any of 'em, I never buy any of 'em any beer, so they hate me

weapons?
we were talking about weapons?
i don't remember that...???

well, i don't buy any of 'em any weapons either...
Weapons? Did someone say weapons? I have no weapons, they're sceery! The ones I had are at the bottom of the lake!
 

spinalcracker

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#24
1. Shall not be infringed.
2. Always do your own "wet work". Never, ever contract out.
3. Never get caught with an unlicensed firearm.
4. Always conduct your illicit transactions naked in a steamroom or a hot tub. May sound strange - but, you have to ensure there are no recording devices of any kind present. Plausible deniability and all that...
5. Never purchase anything illicit by check or credit card.
6. Never bring a phone to a "meeting" - and always use an old car. In fact - keep a car handy that you have purchased but never actually got around to transferring the title/plates. The undated bill of sale will come in handy in the event you get pulled over...
7. Always make sure to wipe the car clean of prints when finished with it. Of course it wouldnt be a tragedy if the car was to spontaneously burst into flames or something...
8. Its not what they know - its what they can prove...
9. Never talk to police.
10. Never make posts like this on a forum unless a person is 100% sure they would never do any of the preceding items...all above items are posted in jest and do not reflect reality, past or present. In the event this post is ever presented as evidence in a court of law - let it be known that item 10 supercedes items 1-9 in their entirety...well - items 2-9 anyways...

Who wants to live like that?....

Sounds like Nazi Germany..
 

Buck

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#25
Weapons? Did someone say weapons? I have no weapons, they're sceery! The ones I had are at the bottom of the lake!
Next time use Flex Seal

1566744677352.png


Why waste a perfectly good boat?
Bring that thing back to the surface, dry off the weapons, go home, bury the weapons while you wait for the flex seal to dry, and when you're done with all that, go boating to cool off from the hard day of digging

ahhhhhhh
 

Buck

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#27
Cosmoline helps...

but, there's something even better you can place into the ground...


Bunker

it's helps to keep your weapons clean and there's no need to wipe off the Cosmo before use
 

ttazzman

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#29
done a lot of state to state transactions......never had a issue.......seller takes it to a FFL ...FFL ships it to the other states FFL.....the buyer Picks up gun at FFL after passing a background check and whatever extra state laws are.....

person to person sales are allowed in my state with no records or background checks (bill of sale not required but sometimes good to have if the gun were to ever come up stolen or used in a crime)

even though laws allow it every carrier (fedex/ups) etc by company policy will not ship a gun for you if your not a ffl..law requires only ffls receive guns...by far the cheapest way to ship a handgun as a ffl is USPS 25$ vs ~100$ via the other carriers

I have even tried to ship a hand gun to myself in another state (which is BATF legal) but the carriers would not ship to anyone not a FFL

and NO its not legal to drive accross state lines and do a person to person (PTP) transaction even if both states allow ptp sales

the so called loop holes are only the PTP sales as that is the only legal way to transfer firearms without a back ground check currently and that is only availible in some free states ...in reality for the "loop holes" to be stopped it will require some sort of gun registration and continuing accountability for guns each person owns....so "loop hole" fixing legislation really means a form of registration

currently the only records of a gun transfer with a background check is in the retained records of the transferring FFL as that information is not transferred to the BATF ...but those retained records at the FFL are available for periodic inspection and validation

this is how things have worked for me for years and many transactions ....i am not providing legal advice etc as state laws vary substantially

the only thing that is slightly different is gun shipping for manufacturers/gunsmiths recalls or repairs

the politics of this is at some point some form of gun registration is going to be required and when that happens ...there will be a choice to be made ....legal registered guns...or illegal underground guns
 
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michael59

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#30
dagnabit Tazzman are you telling me the days of "sure whacha want for it?" are over?

This is kind of funny: One day I walked up to a cop who was on a steak out...ahahha….he was monetarizing traffic. and, I asked him if he could run a 22deringer that I had traded for some fire wood. Sure he says. So I went and retrieved it and ran the numbers right there. din't cost me a dime.
 

ttazzman

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#31
in our area guns are like cash very tradeable etc.....maybe this is a crack down on cash alternatives :)..........days of cash n carry are about over i think

i hate the idea that i cant give firearms to my children or they cant even inherit them without the feds getting involved
 

the_shootist

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#32

Aurumag

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#33
In my BATFE case:

Before I funded the cashier's check, BATFE claimed that 80% AR lowers were perfectly legal.

Before my products were 80% completed, BATFE raided my supplier, and changed their tune 180 degrees.

BATFE is an extra-Constitutional tax collection agency (notice I omitted the IMO).

The irony being that my purpose for producing the AR lowers was based upon a business model for creating a security company, adhering to all pertinent fed.gov laws, in order to securely escort nuclear materials within CONUS.
 

wallew

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#34
in our area guns are like cash very tradeable etc.....maybe this is a crack down on cash alternatives :)..........days of cash n carry are about over i think

i hate the idea that i cant give firearms to my children or they cant even inherit them without the feds getting involved
T,
I'm kinda surprised you said that. Because you CAN give your firearms to your children and DIRECT relative (sister, brother, etc). I would love to know who told you that, because unless they CHANGED the laws last week, that is NOT true.

Must be where you live. Because FAMILY is one of the few people you are NOT required to do a background check for. At least on a federal level. Unless they convicted felons (then no). Which I assume your children are not convicted felons.

Not sure about where you live and what kind of laws you have to live with though.
 

ttazzman

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#35
T,
I'm kinda surprised you said that. Because you CAN give your firearms to your children and DIRECT relative (sister, brother, etc). I would love to know who told you that, because unless they CHANGED the laws last week, that is NOT true.

Must be where you live. Because FAMILY is one of the few people you are NOT required to do a background check for. At least on a federal level. Unless they convicted felons (then no). Which I assume your children are not convicted felons.

Not sure about where you live and what kind of laws you have to live with though.
Somewhere context was lost.....the context of that statement was intended to be in the light of the proposals to close "loop holes" such as person to person sales which would include family....currently person to person sales without background checks are legal in my state....
 

Joe King

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#36
Somewhere context was lost.....the context of that statement was intended to be in the light of the proposals to close "loop holes" such as person to person sales which would include family....currently person to person sales without background checks are legal in my state....
Yes, "gun show loophole" is gun grabbers code talk for banning all forms of private person to person sales.
 

michael59

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#37
Yes, "gun show loophole" is gun grabbers code talk for banning all forms of private person to person sales.
Soo? You had the potato last year yet I have it now? And this transaction is a sick bird? ahahaahahhahf...f that is funny.
 

ttazzman

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#38
...as i see it when they close the "gun show loophole" which is actually just person to person sales/gifts/inheritance, etc ...they only way to monitor and control it with any effectiveness would be registration of all firearms .......i have also heard talk of registration of "assult weapons" .....registration is the end goal in my opinion ....then they can control,tax, confiscate, ban, due to knowing who has what
 

Joseph

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#39