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Half of New Testament forged, Bible scholar says

BarnacleBob

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#1
t1larg.bible.thinkstock.jpg


By John Blake, CNN

(CNN) — A frail man sits in chains inside a dank, cold prison cell. He has escaped death before but now realizes that his execution is drawing near.

“I am already being poured out like a drink offering, and the time of my departure has come,” the man –the Apostle Paul — says in the Bible’s 2 Timothy. “I have fought the good fight. I have finished the race. I have kept the faith.”

The passage is one of the most dramatic scenes in the New Testament. Paul, the most prolific New Testament author, is saying goodbye from a Roman prison cell before being beheaded. His goodbye veers from loneliness to defiance and, finally, to joy.

There’s one just one problem — Paul didn’t write those words. In fact, virtually half the New Testament was written by impostors taking on the names of apostles like Paul. At least according to Bart D. Ehrman, a renowned biblical scholar, who makes the charges in his new book “Forged.

“There were a lot of people in the ancient world who thought that lying could serve a greater good,” says Ehrman, an expert on ancient biblical manuscripts.In “Forged,” Ehrman claims that:

* At least 11 of the 27 New Testament books are forgeries.

* The New Testament books attributed to Jesus’ disciples could not have been written by them because they were illiterate.

* Many of the New Testament’s forgeries were manufactured by early Christian leaders trying to settle theological feuds.

Were Jesus’ disciples ‘illiterate peasants?’

Ehrman’s book, like many of his previous ones, is already generating backlash. Ben Witherington, a New Testament scholar, has written a lengthy online critiqueof “Forged.”

Witherington calls Ehrman’s book “Gullible Travels, for it reveals over and over again the willingness of people to believe even outrageous things.”

All of the New Testament books, with the exception of 2 Peter, can be traced back to a very small group of literate Christians, some of whom were eyewitnesses to the lives of Jesus and Paul, Witherington says.

“Forged” also underestimates the considerable role scribes played in transcribing documents during the earliest days of Christianity, Witherington says.

Even if Paul didn’t write the second book of Timothy, he would have dictated it to a scribe for posterity, he says.

“When you have a trusted colleague or co-worker who knows the mind of Paul, there was no problem in antiquity with that trusted co-worker hearing Paul’s last testimony in prison,” he says. “This is not forgery. This is the last will and testament of someone who is dying.”

Ehrman doesn’t confine his critique to Paul’s letters. He challenges the authenticity of the Gospels of Matthew, Mark and John. He says that none were written by Jesus’ disciplies, citing two reasons.

He says none of the earliest gospels revealed the names of its authors, and that their current names were later added by scribes.

Ehrman also says that two of Jesus’ original disciples, John and Peter, could not have written the books attributed to them in the New Testament because they were illiterate.

“According to Acts 4:13, both Peter and his companion John, also a fisherman, were agrammatoi, a Greek word that literally means ‘unlettered,’ that is, ‘illiterate,’ ’’ he writes.

Will the real Paul stand up?

Ehrman reserves most of his scrutiny for the writings of Paul, which make up the bulk of the New Testament. He says that only about half of the New Testament letters attributed to Paul 7 of 13 — were actually written by him.

Paul’s remaining books are forgeries, Ehrman says. His proof: inconsistencies in the language, choice of words and blatant contradiction in doctrine.

For example, Ehrman says the book of Ephesians doesn’t conform to Paul’s distinctive Greek writing style. He says Paul wrote in short, pointed sentences while Ephesians is full of long Greek sentences (the opening sentence of thanksgiving in Ephesians unfurls a sentence that winds through 12 verses, he says).

“There’s nothing wrong with extremely long sentences in Greek; it just isn’t the way Paul wrote. It’s like Mark Twain and William Faulkner; they both wrote correctly, but you would never mistake the one for the other,” Ehrman writes.

The scholar also points to a famous passage in 1 Corinthians in which Paul is recorded as saying that women should be “silent” in churches and that “if they wish to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home.”

Only three chapters earlier, in the same book, Paul is urging women who pray and prophesy in church to cover their heads with veils, Ehrman says: “If they were allowed to speak in chapter 11, how could they be told not to speak in chapter 14?”

Why people forged

Forgers often did their work because they were trying to settle early church disputes, Ehrman says. The early church was embroiled in conflict — people argued over the treatment of women, leadership and relations between masters and slaves, he says.

“There was competition among different groups of Christians about what to believe and each of these groups wanted to have authority to back up their views,” he says. “If you were a nobody, you wouldn’t sign your own name to your treatise. You would sign Peter or John.”

So people claiming to be Peter and John — and all sorts of people who claimed to know Jesus — went into publishing overdrive. Ehrman estimates that there were about 100 forgeries created in the name of Jesus’ inner-circle during the first four centuries of the church.

Witherington concedes that fabrications and forgeries floated around the earliest Christian communities.

But he doesn’t accept the notion that Peter, for example, could not have been literate because he was a fisherman.

“Fisherman had to do business. Guess what? That involves writing, contracts and signed documents,” he said in an interview.

Witherington says people will gravitate toward Ehrman’s work because the media loves sensationalism.

“We live in a Jesus-haunted culture that’s biblically illiterate,” he says. “Almost anything can pass for historical information… A book liked ‘Forged’ can unsettle people who have no third or fourth opinions to draw upon.”

Ehrman, of course, has another point of view.

“Forged” will help people accept something that it took him a long time to accept, says the author, a former fundamentalist who is now an agnostic.

The New Testament wasn’t written by the finger of God, he says — it has human fingerprints all over its pages.

“I’m not saying people should throw it out or it’s not theologically fruitful,” Ehrman says. “I’m saying that by realizing it contains so many forgeries, it shows that it’s a very human book, down to the fact that some authors lied about who they were.”

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/05/13/half-of-new-testament-forged-bible-scholar-says/
 

Po'boy

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#2
Funny that if one followed simple laws found in the old and new testaments they wouldn't be whining about tyranny from .gov.
The State's propaganda machines are always looking for converts to it's religion.
 

BarnacleBob

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Funny that if one followed simple laws found in the old and new testaments they wouldn't be whining about tyranny from .gov.
The State's propaganda machines are always looking for converts to it's religion.
Paul’s remaining books are forgeries, Ehrman says. His proof: inconsistencies in the language, choice of words and blatant contradiction in doctrine.
Credibility cannot be found in the language, choice of words and blatant CONTRADICTION in doctrine.... Belief is one thing, TRUTH is another. Regardless of the states propaghanda against the book & its teachings... Any serious student of the bible finds the various contradictions & will also recognize many missing pieces in the scriptures that have been edited & omitted for unknown reasons.... Constantine, et al are merely revisionists for political & social restructuring thru religious ideology. And ideologies do not rely upon truth!
 

Po'boy

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#5
Well as the law sees it you got to choices, one leads to tyranny for all.
The state loves godless citizens.

How's that song go if you choose not to decide you still have made a choice...
 

the_shootist

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#7
Well as the law sees it you got to choices, one leads to tyranny for all.
The state loves godless citizens.

How's that song go if you choose not to decide you still have made a choice...
Don't confuse Godless with Clueless. Just because someone isn't drinking the religious kool aid doesn't mean they don't recognize tyranny treason and injustice when they see it
 

itsamess

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#8
So its Feb 2016 and we use a blog post from MAY 2011 from the always accurate CNNs BLOG SITE to quote a PROFESSOR from a STATE / read Government school ( UNC) to bash Christians. Funny BB you always complain about bible thumpers but you have no problem with bashing. Surprise, surprise from a Aleister Crowley freemason satanic worshipper. Remember the "happy ending for Aleister you admire so much?.

Well paypay someday and Happy Easter.

Wonder why Scorpio and BB post so much? What happened to the frequent posters like Phideaux, Ahilock, numbers and others?
 

Po'boy

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#13
Really take it as a law, science, and prophecy giving a road map for a sustainable community first, then more is understood.
The ah ha comes later as you see what tptb are doing but people choose destruction with a nudge.
 

Aurumag

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#14
Would this thread be moved to the Cigar Room if the scholar had claimed the entire NT to be absolutely genuine, or is it only the disputations of Biblical authenticity which warrant public consumption?

Is it not obvious that the author claiming forgery wants to sell his own book?

LORD, help thou my unbelief.
 

the_shootist

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#15
I look at scripture as an attempt to provide guidance for lost hearts. Man typically (but not always) needs something to look forward to, to strive after. Those with nothing have only 'faith' to turn to. I have no problem with that until they start shoving their beliefs down my throat. I live and let live, show compassion and caring were it's applicable and treat others like I want to be treated. I don't need no stickin bible to teach me that....my Mom did!

If everyone did that we wouldn't be in such a fucking mess in the world
 

Aurumag

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#16
I need the Word like a cripple needs a crutch, and I am not ashamed to admit it.

My life was hopeless without it, and the Bible has opened my eyes to the truth, directly through the Bible.

Because I know where to diligently seek the truth, the lies are very easy to discern, and sadly, we live in a world of lies run by people who love the lie

God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 KJV

The majority (666) believe the truth to be the lie.

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Revelation 22:14-15 KJV
 

Po'boy

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#17
I look at scripture as an attempt to provide guidance for lost hearts. Man typically (but not always) needs something to look forward to, to strive after. Those with nothing have only 'faith' to turn to. I have no problem with that until they start shoving their beliefs down my throat. I live and let live, show compassion and caring were it's applicable and treat others like I want to be treated. I don't need no stickin bible to teach me that....my Mom did!

If everyone did that we wouldn't be in such a fucking mess in the world
What does the state offer, faith in credit.
Scripture teaches just weights.
 

the_shootist

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#18
I need the Word like a cripple needs a crutch, and I am not ashamed to admit it.

My life was hopeless without it, and the Bible has opened my eyes to the truth, directly through the Bible.

Because I know where to diligently seek the truth, the lies are very easy to discern, and sadly, we live in a world of lies run by people who love the lie

God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 KJV

The majority (666) believe the truth to be the lie.

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Revelation 22:14-15 KJV
We draw our strength from wherever we can find it! I don't begrudge anyone from seeking inner peace as long as they aren't stepping on MY toes
 

Aurumag

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#20
I view the state like I view religion....someone somewhere is trying to get into my head and diminish my objectivity....I can't have that
The tangible "state" is a religion of lies, cyclically administered for the benefit of the murdering thieves, pimps, whores and sons of Belial who comprise .gov

I am not preaching conversion, but I am establishing that because I possess the truth in the form of 66 Bible books, I can more easily discern the lies, and yes, one of the primary truths I have embraced from the Bible is the Divine establishment of just weights and measures in conjunction with honest money in the form of PMs.

Thus, it is easy for me to see that the current financial system is completely predicated upon lies, and those same liars aka banksters, rule the planet via their corrupt monetary abomination.

You don't have to believe the Bible to know the truth, but the accuracy of Bible prophecy penned thousands of years ago and preserved for our edification includes many warnings which may be searched out:

This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,


Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,


Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;


Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2 Timothy 3:1-5

 
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the_shootist

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#21
The tangible "state" is a religion of lies, run by murdering thieves, pimps, whores and sons of Belial.

I am not preaching conversion, but I am establishing that because I possess the truth in the form of 66 Bible books, I can more easily discern the lies, and yes, one of the primary truths I have embraced from the Bible is the Divine establishment of just weights and measures in conjunction with honest money in the form of PMs.

Thus, it is easy for me to see that the current financial system is completely predicated upon lies.
AGreed, and it's easy for me to arrive at the same conclusions as you because I've been paying attention for a very long time. :)
 

BarnacleBob

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#23
So its Feb 2016 and we use a blog post from MAY 2011 from the always accurate CNNs BLOG SITE to quote a PROFESSOR from a STATE / read Government school ( UNC) to bash Christians. Funny BB you always complain about bible thumpers but you have no problem with bashing. Surprise, surprise from a Aleister Crowley freemason satanic worshipper. Remember the "happy ending for Aleister you admire so much?.

Well paypay someday and Happy Easter.

Wonder why Scorpio and BB post so much? What happened to the frequent posters like Phideaux, Ahilock, numbers and others?
Is that the best you can do??? Fabricated untruths and outright disinformation that conforms to your ideological belief system!

"Remember the "happy ending for Aleister you admire so much?"

As a student of ancient & contemporary history, one would be cognizant & aware of Aleister Crowley, no different than knowing who Mother Teresa is.... Does the mere fact that I possess knowledge of the life of Mother Teresa make me an admiring Catholic? How about the Buddah, does knowing who Buddah is make me a Buddist.... Indeed, I have learned about Kabbalah, does this make me a Kabbalist? Does knowledge create the presumption of admiration or any other vice that can be employed at the pleasure of a misguided disinformationalist & attacker???

Nay, when a bamboozled believer with a twisted ideology is confronted with truth, like a cornered dog, they show their teeth & growl....

The next ? concerns the research & proclamations of the researcher & his study.

Does the reseacher & author possess the ability, stability and reference materials to back up his claims & work?

Who is Bart D. Ehrman, biography

http://www.bartdehrman.com/barts-biography/

And most importantly are the authors claims backed by my own personal experience with the book? Yes, they do, as the book in its entirety is filled with numerous contradictions.... yet the follows, believers & defenders of this publication fail to understand that this book, by its own admittance proclaims to be the "INSPIRED WORD," which is NOT the same as "THE WORD." In furtherance, at the beginning of the KJV, it too admits that this is the Kings VERSION of HIS truth.... which may not necessarily be my truth or any readers truth!

Is there empirical evidence to back the claims of this author & researcher and are there other researchers that have studied the evidence and reached the same conclusions?

Yes, Yes & Yes.....

Constantine then instructed Eusebius to organize the compilation of a uniform collection of new writings developed from primary aspects of the religious texts submitted at the council.

His instructions were:

"Search ye these books, and whatever is good in them, that retain; but whatsoever is evil, that cast away. What is good in one book, unite ye with that which is good in another book. And whatsoever is thus brought together shall be called The Book of Books. And it shall be the doctrine of my people, which I will recommend unto all nations, that there shall be no more war for religions' sake."
(God's Book of Eskra, op. cit., chapter xlviii, paragraph 31)

"Make them to astonish" said Constantine, and "the books were written accordingly"

(Life of Constantine, vol. iv, pp. 36-39).

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/biblianazar/esp_biblianazar_40.htm

Unfortunetly for the ideologues, the historical documented record is not in accordance with their false beliefs. Beliefs that were & are taught for sociopolitical reasons....
 

TAEZZAR

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#24
Religion is man's first form of government.
CONVINCE A BELIEVER.jpg
 

SilverCity

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#25
His bio: http://www.bartdehrman.com/barts-biography/

I seriously doubt he ever would have received his undergrad degrees if he spouted this tripe. PhD from that conservative bastion of hermaneutical authority, Princeton...check.

1 "The Spirit clearly says that in latter times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2 Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron." 1 Tim 4

11"Let the one who does wrong continue to do wrong; let the vile person continue to be vile; let the one who does right continue to do right; and let the holy person continue to be holy. 12 Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me and I will give to each person according to what they have done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End." Rev 22

Good luck fellas

SC
 
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Fanakapan

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#26
Its still a fruitful route in publishing to print books claiming Christianity to be bogus (enter the usual suspects).

And whilst its a fact that the first gospel was not written until 30 to 40 years after the crucifixion, it still remains that they all tell basically the same story. Of course it would be interesting to know more about the supposed gospels that the Vatican holds, and that did not make the cut, but even allowing for 1600 years of transcription errors, the story is remarkably consistent.
 

TAEZZAR

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#27
the story is remarkably consistent.
or controlled.
 

Aurumag

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#28

TAEZZAR

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#29
So, who is in control?

God or man?
From the looks of things, I really have to wonder if anyone is control.
I will say it is NOT man.
I also question the motives of who/what is in control, if in fact anyone is in control.
 

Fanakapan

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#31
the story is remarkably consistent.
or controlled.
I dont know, the topic of religion is the most Fractious on the planet, and its difficult to think of any group who have ever had the sort of 'Overall' authority that would have been required to pull all the various arguments together ?

Lets not forget there are 3 dogs in this fight, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, all 3 of which would not think twice about slitting up any of the others :)
 

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#32
Half is forged ?
Then equally I would suppose,
Half is NOT forged .
I ' m ok with that.
I'm also ok with ghost writers.
Only the opinion of man.
Seems pretty much the same with lots and
lots of stuff in life.
Endlessly debatable.
Never provable. So whats the point ?
I ' ve never figured that out either.
Each should weigh and consider.
It either floats your boat or it doesn' t.
 

SilverCity

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#33
Pope Leo X? Another stellar example of papal apostasy. Check his bio. The Protestant Reformation happened on his watch. Martin Luther and company got real tired of his excesses, indulgences, pedophilia, debauchery, even charges of murder, atheism. No wonder Leo wanted nothing to do with the Jesus of the Bible. His eternal reward is justified.

SC
 
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JayDubya

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#34
And another Rush song:


I've got my own moral compass to steer by
A guiding star beats a spirit in the sky
And all the preaching voices -
Empty vessels ring so loud
As they move among the crowd
Fools and thieves are well disguised
In the temple and market place

Like a stone in the river
Against the floods of spring
I will quietly resist

Like the willows in the wind
Or the cliffs along the ocean
I will quietly resist

I don't have faith in faith
I don't believe in belief
You can call me faithless
I still cling to hope
And I believe in love
And that's faith enough for me

I've got my own spirit level for balance
To tell if my choice is leaning up or down
And all the shouting voices
Try to throw me off my course
Some by sermon, some by force
Fools and thieves are dangerous
In the temple and market place

Like a forest bows to winter
Beneath the deep white silence
I will quietly resist

Like a flower in the desert
That only blooms at night
I will quietly resist
 

Alric

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#35
Funny that if one followed simple laws found in the old and new testaments they wouldn't be whining about tyranny from .gov.
The State's propaganda machines are always looking for converts to it's religion.
Yeah, because if we followed all those laws we would probably all be dead by now. Would be like having a 5 year old make the laws for the country.
 

SilverCity

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#36
36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself. All the Law and the Prophets hand on these two commandments.” Matt26:36-40

And again the Apostle Paul wrote:

For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: "Love your neighbor as yourself." Galatians 5:14

Now that's not so hard is it?

SC
 
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Alric

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#37
36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself. All the Law and the Prophets are fulfilled in these two commandments.” Matt26:36-40

Now that's not so hard is it?
That is why some people think Jesus(if he existed at all) was probably a con artist. Because he says stuff like that but then you read the bible and you find out that isn't at all what it says.
 

SilverCity

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#38
What does it say Alric? Make sure you quote ALL relevant scriptures and don't cherry-pick them out of context to make fallacious point. That's not good theology. Nor is quoting non-canonical, extra-biblical sources.

Good luck.

SC
 
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Alric

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#39
What does it say Alric? Make sure you quote ALL relevant scriptures and don't cherry-pick them out of context to make fallacious point. That's not good theology. Nor is quoting non-canonical, extra-biblical sources.

Good luck.
I could give you examples but if you want me to quote every single passage, then why don't you try reading the bible yourself? What is with all these Christians, who have never read the bible? Also, it is pretty hilarious that you said don't cherry pick quotes when that is pretty much exactly what you did. You really going to deny that the bible is filled with rules and regulations and people facing severe punishments over some times silly things?
 

SilverCity

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#40
Old Covenant or New?

The Law was to bring people to the ultimate fulfillment of that Law which was Christ. In Him and only in Him are we set free from the requirements of the Law. When a person feels overwhelmed, convicted of their sins by the rules of the Law, which is exactly God's purpose (the Old Covenant), they have two options: embrace God's plan of salvation through Christ, be born again into the new man, and be set free from spiritual death and condemnation (New Covenant). Or they can reject God, His plan, His son and face the eternal consequences. It's free will. Freedom to choose is yours. Choose wisely.

BTW, I am a serious student of the Bible, have read it through 100's of times, and have been for going on 36 years. Give it a try yourself. Start with the book of John in the New Testament. Then read the rest. Get back to me when you do...

SC
 
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