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Help Me Identify this coin and Value ( Calling all experts!) - Varies on the internet

Snow

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#1
Help!

Can anybody help me ascertain the value of this coins. I have access to more, trying figure out the value and the best place to sell. I don't do ebay, as I travel abroad too much, which is how I came upon these coins.
 

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Bocephus

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#5
Re: Help Me Identify this coin and Value ( Calling all experts!) - Varies on the inte

You don't see any stamps on it that say 'made in China' do you? Just saying, need to be very careful what you buy and who you buy it from any more these days.
 

Buck

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#7
Re: Help Me Identify this coin and Value ( Calling all experts!) - Varies on the inte

What indicates, to you, it is fake?
Appears to be real to me...an 8 Real...I might be wrong but Hispan might indicate it was minted in Spain...these were minted world wide for many years.
The off center minting and the chinks of the edge...
I bought one a few months ago for about $50.00
The COA that came with mine did not indicate its' heritage.
The coin had fake toning but I washed that crap off.
Mine was minted in Peru.
I had it certified by ANACS...they recognized that it was from a shipwreck.
Now my Real has a real COA!
 
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#8
Re: Help Me Identify this coin and Value ( Calling all experts!) - Varies on the inte

The mint mark is that of Mexico City.
 

GOLDZILLA

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#9
Re: Help Me Identify this coin and Value ( Calling all experts!) - Varies on the inte

Seriously, what's wrong with Charles' nose?

Back in the day, royals were not allowed to marry commoners, so they interbred within their own families. This caused many of their more prominent features to become cartoon like -- for real.
 

Ronnie Mexico

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#10
Re: Help Me Identify this coin and Value ( Calling all experts!) - Varies on the inte

Back in the day, royals were not allowed to marry commoners, so they interbred within their own families. This caused many of their more prominent features to become cartoon like -- for real.
Sounds valid... Or maybe the engraver wasn't very good at his job.
 

~BS

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#11
Re: Help Me Identify this coin and Value ( Calling all experts!) - Varies on the inte

asdfasdfsadf
 

Kregener

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#12
Re: Help Me Identify this coin and Value ( Calling all experts!) - Varies on the inte

Put them on a scale.

Silver is at $37.29 an ounce right now...
 

Bigfoot

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#13
Re: Help Me Identify this coin and Value ( Calling all experts!) - Varies on the inte

its most likely fake.........................and thus worthless..............
If it's made with real silver, it's at least worth spot.
 

JEKYLL-7

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#14
Re: Help Me Identify this coin and Value ( Calling all experts!) - Varies on the inte

I'd wager that it's a fake. Have a look at the reverse, at the top. What you should see is what looks like an orange with a cross stuck in it, which should be reasonably well defined even on a somewhat worn coin. What is on the coin posted above looks like a blob typical of a forgery.

I'm not 100% sure (I'd have to find a known good Mexican example of the same vintage), but I believe the typeset on some of the obverse legend is incorrect.

The coin should weigh just a hair over 27 grams. Some of the older fakes would check in at a light 24ish grams, but the newer ones may be on relatively correct weight planchets.

edit - just checked an old Heritage auction for a certified genuine example 1777. As I suspected, the gothic looking "GRA" font of "GRATIA" which appears on this coin appears to be totally incorrect.
 

Oz Waver

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#15
Re: Help Me Identify this coin and Value ( Calling all experts!) - Varies on the inte

Hmmm...

Firstly you should not have cleaned the coin under ANY and ALL circumstances. I've seen 150,000 coins go to around 1,200 due to cleaning. It's a cardinal sin of the highest kind in numismatics.



Here the site: http://exonumismatics.com/pillar/pillar.html

Also I wouldn't be so quick to say it's a fake either. (I say at the present looks kinda real to me) The "GRA" poster is just saying their suspicion but that's actually very common to have the legend in different fonts. This kind of thing is even found in sovereigns until fairly recently too, in fact its in lots of coins. Could also be from a different mint. I know Maria Thaler coins have many restrikes.

But I can say cleaning is a big no no, can't emphasise that enough. Also fake toning is really really really hard to do properly and there are many kinds of real toning that people falsely believe are fake but add thousands to really rare coins because of the impossibility to fake, signs of ageing etc.

If you were my brother I'd say "give yourself an uppercut". Take it to a quality dealer and ask around.
 
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917601

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#16
Re: Help Me Identify this coin and Value ( Calling all experts!) - Varies on the inte

I have a friend who travels abroad often, he picked up 20 of these also-buyer beware, put a magnet on them firstly, secondly, if not silver plated steel made in China fake, then you cleared the first hurdle.His were all silver plated steel fakes.Mine were purchased from a sea salvaged wreck (uncleaned, saltwater immersion patina-impossible to clean up, BUT also very difficult to duplicate-note:some sellers ARE duping uncleaned wreck coinage by burying in chicken **** but it takes 2 years to develop the right patina and they are out of the Plillipines and not 8 Reales) sold by the largest numismatic dealer out of Philly, paid $100 apiece back in the late 80's.The last coinmaster mag described these and China's forgeries being dumped on the market in numbers exceeding 300,000, I am sure you can buy all you want.I recently saw 300 of them in a flea market in Atlanta-steel silver plated.Stay away from them, my quick conclusion is they are fake.As a sidenote-he also picked up 20 US Silver Eagles with a date of 1889 on them.Very crude, but I am sorry to say-all the "deals" out there are long gone-if you can not prove provenance your coins are worthless.I know the modern day pirates, this problem extends also to sea salvaged bronze cannon,never, never clean them up.I did well selling off two to Mel Fischer's chief diver on the Atocha wreck, he made 40K on what I thought was "poor" A VOC specimens. I was pirated.
Best source for some info:
http://reviews.ebay.com/Fake-8-Real...-how-to-avoid-them_W0QQugidZ10000000009793708

There are several types of counterfeit 8 reales coins:

1. Cast copies:


This type of forgeries is not easy to be distinguished from the original on a photograph (especially on the small sized standard ebay picture).
Cast coins look all like the replicated coin, but also include all of its flaws.

Hint: The weight is always below the usual 27-28 grams and you would probably find exactly the same coin (sometimes toned differently), but bearing the same flaws (as mentioned above), which is not to be met on the original struck examples.

Beware of COA´s without picture of the coin and uncertain issuer: Such certificates are often include only a short story of a certain shipwreck, but they do not describe the coin exaclty and do not include the usual numbering and reference data about the coin. Such a certificate (even if issued in good faith) can be combined with ANY coin and is therefore not trustable.


2. Struck copies:


Such coins can have the original weight of 27 gm (NEVER ABOVE 28gm!)

Hint: These rather cheaply produced examples will have many style issues, such as unusual lettering style and simplifiyed designs. So if you compare them with a decent example, they should be easy to detect.


3. New improved forgeries of extremely high quality (cast with new techniques) - THE MOST DANGEROUS ONES!


Such examples are looking very nice (some times just too nice) and are appearing since midlle of 2008.

They currently come witha a fake black patina, and with exotic countermarks, which are not well done if compared to the originals (you can see original countermarks in the world coin catalogue of Krause Publications).

Hint: The letters appear flat (instead of round), the planchets are always smaller and thicker.

Known types:

1737 Mexico (MR) 8 Reales

1739 Mexico (MF) 8 Reales

1742 Mexico (MF) 8 Reales
1751 Mexico (MF) 8 Reales

1754 Mexico (MF) 8 Reales

1759 Mexico (MM) 8 Reales

1761 Mexico (MF) 8 Reales

1762 Madrid (JP) 8 Reales - a very rare coin usually priced at 800$+ (do not trust anybody who sells it fo 275$)
1762 Guatemala (P) 8 Reales - very rare and hard to find coin (if you see this one be cautious!)



1765 Mexico (MF) 8 Reales

1769 Lima (JM) 8 Reales

1772 Lima (JM) 8 Reales

1734 Mexico (MF) 4 Reales


1777 Potosi (PR) 4 Reales with Goerge I countermark (appears more round instead of oval compared to the original issues




1765 Mexico (MF) 4 Reales


1781 Chile / Santiago (DA) 4 Reales - A very rare coin (if you see this one be cautious!)

General hints:

Sellers of fake coins will always try to sell coins outside eBay!

They will do this because you can not leave them a negative feedback and because PayPal will ignore you if you file a dipsute because of the genuinity of the coins you are receiving. Be very cautious if you get such an offer!


Sellers of fake coins will try to sell you other coins for exchange of the ones you are returning!

They will offer you cheap coins at outragous prices or expensive coins, which are also counterfeits.
I will like to include more images and help more people of being scammed like i was once, , unfortunatelly there are only 10 images allowed in ebay´s guide feature.

I would also like to list the users who are still selling such counterfeits (i contacted few of them and they are mostly claiming that they are novices and are not aware of selling (sometimes 10 or 15 rare counterfeited colonial coins), but i am afraid then i will be attacked by them and their complices.



Guide ID: 10000000009793708Guide created: 12/15/08 (updated 06/05/11)
 
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