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Help, What AR or AK to buy ?

wallew

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#41
How many of you have a degree in gunsmithing?

How many of you have carried an AK in battle?

How many of you have done BOTH?

answer? NONE, that's how many.

Noworries, you know jack

$860 for an AR?

PFHHTTT

AMD65 at Centerfire systems $400

Add in TWO CASES of 7.62x39 for $230 each and you are AT $860

Ever hear of a Dragunov? NOT THE COPIES currently sold - but a REAL Dragunov? it will shoot the RINGS out of an AR-15 at 1000 yards all day long. WITH the 7.62x54R round, you will be more prepared than ANYONE with an AR of any stripe

Sorry, and even the currently Romanian made Dragunov (it's not a Dragunov) works quite well and again, anyone with even THIS COPY will be more prepared than ANYONE with an AR of any stripe

Question, WHY IS THE MILITARY currently testing the 6.8mm round out of an AR platform? Because that .223/5.56 round is not adequate IN THE FIELD.

And if your BATTLE rifle's ammo caliber doesn't start with a THREE you are wasting your time and money.

But, hey, go ahead and listen to all those great AR fans. YOU KNOW WHY the military finds it works so well? Because that AR equipped SOLDIER is backed by armor, air, and arty. YOU GOT ANY THOSE? If so, use that AR and then CALL FOR AIR SUPPORT. Cause you gonna need it.

Sorry, but THOSE FACTS are actual, in the field, battle tested :biggrin:
 

Unca Walt

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#42
Deleted for decorum. ;)
 
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Unca Walt

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#43
All of this talk about AK vs AR made me hungry - so I bought a new toy yesterday. I got a Smith & Wesson M&P15 (Military & Police AR15)
If I had the dough... that would be my next.

MEANWHILE, yestiddy was our 52nd anniversary. Herself is forever taking her .357Magnum outa her pockybook and leaving it in the car. I asked why.

"Too big and too heavy."

Folks... you gotta understand one thing: If you have been married 52 fargin years to a lady, :smile::hahaha:you KNOW when you have hit the wall. So, OK... that will be the "in-car" piece...

Sooo... for her anniversary present, I got her this actual boorango right here:


I saw it on Guns America. About the tweeniest hammerless popgun... and silvery, too (Herself likes that part)
 

ErrosionOfAccord

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#44
Lot's of good replies IMHO. The one thing I did not see is ammo availability after TSHTF. I think it is prudent to own both because the U.S. military has scads of AR ammo laying around. On the other hand AK ammo might be easy to find depending on who is sponsoring who on the battlefield. Owning one of each for the ammo availability is my choice. I have cheap Mosin-Nagants + ammo for barter purposes.
 
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wallew

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#47
Wallew my friend, you are just plain wrong in so many ways. Bx3
YEAH BX3 and I note where you don't LIST where your gunsmithing degree came from and WHICH CONFLICT YOU CARRIED THAT AR IN now, did yah...

Because being a keyboard commando makes you so much more knowledgeable than first hand knowledge...

BWAHAHAHAHA

and this FOLKS IS EXACTLY why I stopped coming here on any kind of regular basis. all you keyboard cowboys KNOW SO MUCH MORE than folks who actually have been there, done that...
 

Unca Walt

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#48
YEAH BX3 and I note where you don't LIST where your gunsmithing degree came from and WHICH CONFLICT YOU CARRIED THAT AR IN now, did yah...

Because being a keyboard commando makes you so much more knowledgeable than first hand knowledge...

BWAHAHAHAHA

and this FOLKS IS EXACTLY why I stopped coming here on any kind of regular basis. all you keyboard cowboys KNOW SO MUCH MORE than folks who actually have been there, done that...


Awright, twinkie. I redacted my original post for the sake of decorum. You can take your marvelous degree in boom-booms and your exalted sense of omniscience and shove it.

**I** have carried both an AK and an AR in combat, Nancy. Have YOU?

It is the derogation you bring. The hubris-loaded mindset that YOU are godlike in everything to do with any firearm.

That egotistical nastiness is simply not needed. It is trolling. And infantile. So stop coming here and save yourself some upset to your widdle ego.

To make the point more solid, I happen to prefer the AK/SKS to the OLD AR. So I should be a supporter, right?

I do not support supercilious, egotistical, narrow-minded people. They have emotional problems I do not choose to pander to.

So Foxtrot Oscar, wee-waw.
 

Bx3

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#50
Wallew, I didn't list my credentials because I don't need to justify my firearms background or military career to you or anyone on this forum for that matter. If you took the time to read any of my posts on GIM 2 or GIM 1 for that matter you would know that I don't speculate or comment on issues of which I have no first hand experience. I have great respect for the AK platform as I have been facing them for the better part of eighteen years. Have you? That being said, your assumptions regarding both platforms are simply incomplete and uninformed. I will agree that the Hungarian AKs are well regarded and I would have no problem taking one into harms way. Personally, I would still rather carry a different design as there are better options for both accuracy, reliability and terminal ballistics. Bx3
 

notasockpuppet

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#51
If you feel the need to call yourself a "Renaissance Man" that is generally a pretty good indicator you are nothing of the sort.

For my input, I am going to get a Ruger Mini-14 in a tactical configuration for myself for Christmas. I feel that will fill the AR-AK combat rifle itch I have quite nicely....
 

obilly

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#52
If you feel the need to call yourself a "Renaissance Man" that is generally a pretty good indicator you are nothing of the sort.

For my input, I am going to get a Ruger Mini-14 in a tactical configuration for myself for Christmas. I feel that will fill the AR-AK combat rifle itch I have quite nicely....
good fo you,,,NSP,,,,,,I love that platform,,,,,6 and some change at walmart. dicks stocks them don.t know $. do not know it they are good for 5.56????

edit to say:

does not use standard ar clips,,,,,that is neg.?????
 

Bx3

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#53
I would have to agree with the mini-14. Great little ranch rifle. We should all be more concerned about having the choice rather than what that choice might be. Every firearm purchased is a victory for us all. Bx3
 

SilverCity

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#54
good fo you,,,NSP,,,,,,I love that platform,,,,,6 and some change at walmart. dicks stocks them don.t know $. do not know it they are good for 5.56????

edit to say:

does not use standard ar clips,,,,,that is neg.?????
Mini-14s handle 5.56 just fine and Ruger factory mags are readily available at pretty good prices.

SC
 

notasockpuppet

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#55
good fo you,,,NSP,,,,,,I love that platform,,,,,6 and some change at walmart. dicks stocks them don.t know $. do not know it they are good for 5.56????

edit to say:

does not use standard ar clips,,,,,that is neg.?????
Thanks Obilly, they are good for 556 and I have checked around for magazines, 20 and 30 round magazines are available for under $10. I wish they sold guns at the Wal-Marts here in Oklahoma but the only ones they stock are muzzle-loaders?
 

Unca Walt

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#57
Originally Posted by Bx3
I would have to agree with the mini-14. Great little ranch rifle. We should all be more concerned about having the choice rather than what that choice might be. Every firearm purchased is a victory for us all. Bx3

Now THAT is some good stuff.
YOWZA. :smile::cool:
 

Aurumag

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#58
...
And if your BATTLE rifle's ammo caliber doesn't start with a THREE you are wasting your time and money.

But, hey, go ahead and listen to all those great AR fans. YOU KNOW WHY the military finds it works so well? Because that AR equipped SOLDIER is backed by armor, air, and arty. YOU GOT ANY THOSE? If so, use that AR and then CALL FOR AIR SUPPORT. Cause you gonna need it.

Sorry, but THOSE FACTS are actual, in the field, battle tested
Although I appreciate your right to express your opinion, I will beg to differ because I still prefer my AR.

Perhaps it is because I have been attached to one, starting with the M-16, for more than half of my life.

 

917601

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#59
Opinions,money,ammo availability,ammo cost,all aside-a .30 cal (.308, 30.06,7.62x54) wins hands down.9 million Garands,'03 Springfields,the Russian 7.62x54 all WON wars as the .30 cal has and still is the most lethal projectile (kill ratio)ever mass produced.Armor piercing,incendiary,tracer,spotter,ball and even CS available.With the advent of 5.56 and 7.62x39 WIA rates skyrocketed and KIA's went down.Something to think about.
 

bonedaddy

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#60
How many of you have a degree in gunsmithing?

How many of you have carried an AK in battle?

How many of you have done BOTH?

answer? NONE, that's how many.

Noworries, you know jack

$860 for an AR?

PFHHTTT

AMD65 at Centerfire systems $400

Add in TWO CASES of 7.62x39 for $230 each and you are AT $860

Ever hear of a Dragunov? NOT THE COPIES currently sold - but a REAL Dragunov? it will shoot the RINGS out of an AR-15 at 1000 yards all day long. WITH the 7.62x54R round, you will be more prepared than ANYONE with an AR of any stripe

Sorry, and even the currently Romanian made Dragunov (it's not a Dragunov) works quite well and again, anyone with even THIS COPY will be more prepared than ANYONE with an AR of any stripe

Question, WHY IS THE MILITARY currently testing the 6.8mm round out of an AR platform? Because that .223/5.56 round is not adequate IN THE FIELD.

And if your BATTLE rifle's ammo caliber doesn't start with a THREE you are wasting your time and money.

But, hey, go ahead and listen to all those great AR fans. YOU KNOW WHY the military finds it works so well? Because that AR equipped SOLDIER is backed by armor, air, and arty. YOU GOT ANY THOSE? If so, use that AR and then CALL FOR AIR SUPPORT. Cause you gonna need it.

Sorry, but THOSE FACTS are actual, in the field, battle tested :biggrin:
Seriously? This is a troll, right?

Sorry. My degrees have nothing to do with gunsmithing. Does that mean I'm too stupid to understand the difference between a 7.62x54r and a .308 round?

As for my battlefield experience, the US Navy did not issue AKs in the 60's and 70's ... but I have been shot at by more than a few AKs. I have quite a few friends that removed an AK from its previous owner to use because they did not jam like the M16s issued at the time. Does that rate high enough on you Bada$$ scale?

Ok. How is this for an offer wallew? I own both ARs and AKs (plus a few others). My average investment in my ARs is about $1,500 each where my average investment in my AKs is about $1,000 each. For this offer, let's use the higher of the two - $1,500. Since you like to compare apples and oranges, I will publicly offer you $1,500 for each FUNCTIONAL Dragunov (or the Chinese equivalent Tiger) that you can get to me. You see, I happen to own one of those Romanian 7.62x54r Dragunov copies. Mine is the ROMAK III Series. But, I bought that so I could shoot it. You can get these on gunbroker for about $800. You see, the lowest price I have EVER seen a real Dragunov sell for was around $5000. Those are so rare, it would be stupid to spend that kind of money on it and shoot it to devalue it. For that kind of money, you can get a bolt action Barrett .50 and REALLY reach out and touch someone. For another $3,000 you can get the semi-auto Barrett .50 and have some real fun (unless you live in California).

As for the OP and the question of ammo - it is all available now. Use non-corrosive and try to stay away from the coated casings. The coating will end up in you chamber and it is a bear to get out. Depending on what style you choose, you can find ammo for about the same price for each. Soft tip and hollow point for range shooting. FMJ for plinking in the country. I won't get into the difference in a 1 in 7, 1 in 8, and a 1 in 9 twist. I will just say when you pick out your rifle, go with the 1:9 twist.

wallew, go stir the pot elsewhere.
 

honu5050

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#61
5.56 is a varment round use a 1 in 14 twist barrel it inflicts better wounds. m14 / m21 308 the way to go. AK 47 7x62x39 urban perfect . all around 308 best one to exchange greetings with close or far. to each his own.
 

Bx3

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#62
all around 308 best one to exchange greetings with close or far. to each his own.
I agree. The only caveat being that availability and price is also a factor (I know .308 isn't really cheap). There are some other rounds that are a serious challenge to the .308 though. The .260 Remington, 6.5 Creedmoor and 6.5 Grendel are developing some impressive stats. Price, availability and choice of platforms are the only things holding these calibers back for now. Bx3
 

Kenny

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#65
IMO i think the OP knows what to buy, its a fun post and i enjoy reading everyones angles, you can almost know a man a bit by what kinda gun he prfers. I say shop for a gun like you would for a truck, or a new saw, for me i don't have alot of money but i want the cake, so i buy used, usually get some extras that go with the rifle, then I buy reliability, nothing worse then going to get a tree and your saw won't start. Then with the money i saved I buy 2 just incase. In the end I have justified to myself the purchase and garuntee i have the best bang for the buck and if that rational fails me I have anotherone to back me up, not to mention parts to boot. So buy an AK and a new saw :)
 

Kenny

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#67
How many of you have a degree in gunsmithing?

How many of you have carried an AK in battle?

How many of you have done BOTH?

answer? NONE, that's how many.

Noworries, you know jack

Just a observation that Begs the question,Where do you get a "Degree in Gunsmithing" Degree are associated with University Education, I can't say I have heard of a Gun smithing Degree. I have heard of a Certificate program.
 

Kenny

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#68
YEAH BX3 and I note where you don't LIST where your gunsmithing degree came from and WHICH CONFLICT YOU CARRIED THAT AR IN now, did yah...

Because being a keyboard commando makes you so much more knowledgeable than first hand knowledge...

BWAHAHAHAHA

and this FOLKS IS EXACTLY why I stopped coming here on any kind of regular basis. all you keyboard cowboys KNOW SO MUCH MORE than folks who actually have been there, done that...
I realize I am reading through this thread a little late,

I have to admit I am a little taken back, I have known a few people who have seen action, non of them talk like this about it, niether of them seem to have any desire to really talk about it let alone brag about it on a internet forum.

Some how I kinda think maybe you havent seen as much action as you claim, infact likely not the way you talk like some trumped up hollywood character from one of the millions of battle movies. Try not to be such a drama queen and come down a few notches.

So you can cook and you plant vegatables and you know how to make and clean a gun and your a nurse, you prolly done alot of things good for you, your a well travelled person who knows alot of stuff. Why not share some knowledge instead of force feeding your opinions to people. Unless your here because no one in the real world is willing to eat 2nds or thirds of your opinions, in that case keep them comin. I think its fun to read and serves to be a reminder that there is all kinds in this world. You appear to be the skilled smart well travelled lonely kind.
 

Silvergun

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#69
My recommendation would be to by once and cry once. If you settle on a 'cheaper' AR you will end up buying something else down the road.

As far as ARs go the best of the best are Noveske and Larue. There are some cheaper alternatives that are almost as good but you end up saving some cash such as BravoCompanyUSA, LMT, Colt, Rock river arms, etc.

Ive built 3 ARs now and strongly recommend Bravo Company they make great products, but if cost isnt a big factor for you then go Noveske or Larue.
 

noworries

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#70
The guy above who cites AR-15s as commonly chambered w/1:14 twist is mistaken. 1:9 twist or 1:8 is most common among AR-15s, 12 or 14 is common to bolt rifles though, unless you get Tikka w/8 twist...

Colt does a 1:7 twist on some of its weapons. Need the fast twist for the long, heavier bullets that are most effective in the AR. Relying on fragmenting bullets for "tissue destruction" is a folly. Lightweight bullets in any caliber are poor performers at distance beyond 100yds. Need the higher ballistic coefficient to deliver accuracy at any significant distance. A 1:14 or 12 twist is most appropriate for a 50gr bullet. The 1:9 is good for up to 62/69 although some guys say their guns shoot the 75/77gr bullets, but to be sure you need a 1:8. The 1:7 will stabilize up to 80gr bullets which you have to single-load, but gives you options.

I endorse the AR-15 with heavy bullets. 68/69gr is about the minimum. 75/77gr is preferred. Shoot the heaviest that can be loaded to function in your mags.

As far as which rifle to buy, spend your money on quality. Colt, Armalite, Lewis Machine & Tool, Rock River Arms, older Bushmaster, maybe. Have owned Noveske Afghan and LMT 14.5" M4 uppers and sold both. Prefer 20" barrel w/rifle length gas system for all-around use. Want a quality chrome-lined barrel for longest barrel-life.

Contrast the cost of a quality AR-10 or Springfield Armory M1a with ammunition, to that of Colt, Armalite, LMT with loading gear and components. Any quality 7.62x51 surplus costs serious money these days, especially if buying Boxer primed; which you want to do. May as well buy generic Win/USA stuff and know what you are getting. Better off to load your own, but then back to square 1.

Got the money to buy either, and can honestly say you are careful and can focus while you work? Then buy the AR-15 and Dillon 550b and load the match recipe for 77gr loads in Lake City/WCC (military) brass. Using 1x fired mil brass w/primer crimp removed by machine, you can buy 600 hornady bthp match bullets and 600 cases for $140. Another $100 for primers and rl-15 or Varget powder and you are set.

Colt or Armalite rifle cost you about $900, buy an A4 flat top. $400 for Dillon 550b, $50 for the Dillon ctg conversion, $30 for .223/5.56 dies. $5 for powder flipper tray to load your priming tubes, and a scale to verify your Dillon's 550b measure. Might cost $600. Tjconeveras.com for the bullet & brass deal. Load 3,000 match quality rounds at component cost of about $1,000. The Dillon will load about 250rds per hour. Match .223 ammo is about $30 per box of 20. If contrast to storebought match ammo, you paid $1600 vs $4500 and still own the loading gear....


Does Springfield still ship "rack grade" basic M1a guns with new USGI contractor made barrels? Probably not. A new M1a is a $1600 rifle. For same money, you get the Dillon and your AR-15. DPMS AR-10 about $1K for basic rifle, doesn't have chrome-lined barrel at that price-point. Armalite basic AR-10s have the chrome-lined quality barrel. About $1200 for an Armalite. Then you buy ammo... About $600 per 1000 for decent mil-surp 7.62NATO last time I looked... $30-$35 per 20rds for match.

Plenty places to buy 1x mil brass, and there are Midway & Grafs for new Lake City, or buy Winchester commercial and don't sweat the difference. Remington is also quality stuff. Federal is too soft.

I would buy Colt in an AR-15, but only if the takedown pins were the smaller diameter. Colt used to be the only mfr that used a non-standard, larger diameter takedown pin; don't want one of those unless you understand it limits you to interchanging uppers/lowers with only other same configuration Colts...

Buy the AR-15 with 1:7 or 1:8 twist chrome-lined 20" barrel and the loading gear. Assemble your own ammunition, buy lots of extra components and don't look back....
 

funk

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#71
It is ridiculous to think you have to spend tons of money to get a basic, high capacity, SHTF weapon that will work and serve its purpose. Your average civilian does not need to be able to shoot 1" groups at 500 yards everyday of the week for years on end. Its just that simple. Don't buy junk, but also don't buy a Lamborghini when a Toyota will do.
 

Professur

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#72
Opinions,money,ammo availability,ammo cost,all aside-a .30 cal (.308, 30.06,7.62x54) wins hands down.9 million Garands,'03 Springfields,the Russian 7.62x54 all WON wars as the .30 cal has and still is the most lethal projectile (kill ratio)ever mass produced.Armor piercing,incendiary,tracer,spotter,ball and even CS available.With the advent of 5.56 and 7.62x39 WIA rates skyrocketed and KIA's went down.Something to think about.
This is a point that warrants attention. It's an understood aspect of warfare that a wounded soldier is a much greater drain on the opposition's resources than a dead one, and as such, wounding is far more desirable on the battlefield than killing. An army that doesn't look after it's wounded doesn't stay effective very long. This doesn't roll over into the home defense or SHTF scenarios.

That said, I maintain my usual position that it doesn't matter what size a bullet is if it doesn't hit something. Rent whatever tweaks your fancy at the local range, shoot hell outta it, and if you're better than average with one, look at buying it. Then address whatever shortcomings it might have with a good gunsmith to ensure that whenever you pull that trigger it goes bang.

In the end it doesn't matter what it's name is, or what round it fires ... what matters is your ability to hit what you aim at, and it's ability to throw lead at your target. These discussions make me think some of you would refuse a battery boost in the dead of winter if the good Samaritan had the wrong symbol on the front of his car.
 

GOLDBRIX

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#75
any thoughts on the Windham AR-15? wally world near me has em in stock for 827.
That was the Black Friday price for the Sig Sauer M400 Enhanced last Fall. Seeing the prices going at GunBrkr and Armslst dot com any quality AR system in .223/5.56 at that price would be a good price at this time.
 

honu5050

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#76
The guy above who cites AR-15s as commonly chambered w/1:14 twist is mistaken. 1:9 twist or 1:8 is most common among AR-15s, 12 or 14 is common to bolt rifles though, unless you get Tikka w/8 twist...

Colt does a 1:7 twist on some of its weapons. Need the fast twist for the long, heavier bullets that are most effective in the AR. Relying on fragmenting bullets for "tissue destruction" is a folly. Lightweight bullets in any caliber are poor performers at distance beyond 100 yds. Need the higher ballistic coefficient to deliver accuracy at any significant distance. A 1:14 or 12 twist is most appropriate for a 50gr bullet. The 1:9 is good for up to 62/69 although some guys say their guns shoot the 75/77gr bullets, but to be sure you need a 1:8. The 1:7 will stabilize up to 80gr bullets which you have to single-load, but gives you options.

I endorse the AR-15 with heavy bullets. 68/69gr is about the minimum. 75/77gr is preferred. Shoot the heaviest that can be loaded to function in your mags.

As far as which rifle to buy, spend your money on quality. Colt, Armalite, Lewis Machine & Tool, Rock River Arms, older Bushmaster, maybe. Have owned Noveske Afghan and LMT 14.5" M4 uppers and sold both. Prefer 20" barrel w/rifle length gas system for all-around use. Want a quality chrome-lined barrel for longest barrel-life.

Contrast the cost of a quality AR-10 or Springfield Armory M1a with ammunition, to that of Colt, Armalite, LMT with loading gear and components. Any quality 7.62x51 surplus costs serious money these days, especially if buying Boxer primed; which you want to do. May as well buy generic Win/USA stuff and know what you are getting. Better off to load your own, but then back to square 1.

Got the money to buy either, and can honestly say you are careful and can focus while you work? Then buy the AR-15 and Dillon 550b and load the match recipe for 77gr loads in Lake City/WCC (military) brass. Using 1x fired mil brass w/primer crimp removed by machine, you can buy 600 hornady bthp match bullets and 600 cases for $140. Another $100 for primers and rl-15 or Varget powder and you are set.

Colt or Armalite rifle cost you about $900, buy an A4 flat top. $400 for Dillon 550b, $50 for the Dillon ctg conversion, $30 for .223/5.56 dies. $5 for powder flipper tray to load your priming tubes, and a scale to verify your Dillon's 550b measure. Might cost $600. tjconevera.com for the bullet & brass deal. Load 3,000 match quality rounds at component cost of about $1,000. The Dillon will load about 250 rds per hour. Match .223 ammo is about $30 per box of 20. If contrast to store bought match ammo, you paid $1600 vs $4500 and still own the loading gear....


Does Springfield still ship "rack grade" basic M1a guns with new USGI contractor made barrels? Probably not. A new M1a is a $1600 rifle. For same money, you get the Dillon and your AR-15. DPMS AR-10 about $1K for basic rifle, doesn't have chrome-lined barrel at that price-point. Armalite basic AR-10s have the chrome-lined quality barrel. About $1200 for an Armalite. Then you buy ammo... About $600 per 1000 for decent milsurp 7.62NATO last time I looked... $30-$35 per 20rds for match.

Plenty places to buy 1x mil brass, and there are Midway & Graphs for new Lake City, or buy Winchester commercial and don't sweat the difference. Remington is also quality stuff. Federal is too soft.

I would buy Colt in an AR-15, but only if the takedown pins were the smaller diameter. Colt used to be the only mfr that used a non-standard, larger diameter takedown pin; don't want one of those unless you understand it limits you to interchanging uppers/lowers with only other same configuration Colts...

Buy the AR-15 with 1:7 or 1:8 twist chrome-lined 20" barrel and the loading gear. Assemble your own ammunition, buy lots of extra components and don't look back....
stoners first ar15's were fitted with a 1 in 14 barrel . the gooks were petrified of them as they made vicious wounds 55 grain bullets would devastate a human target as it tumbled inside .yes stoner made it to devastate. he also used a clean burn stick powder which the military changed to ball powder you had to keep em clean. my first one had a 4x detachable scope colt of course. n' 1 in 14 barrels were sold here n' there, in big demand as they worked for the purpose desired . It also had a prototype mag 2 back to back spring button released. 3 prong flash suppressor....$375.00 I paid for that beauty . military went to 1 in 12 next etc . but that was many yrs ago. o' by the way I didn't say 1 in 14 was "common" or "mistaken" although not perfect. stoner had his reasons n' at that time 1 in 14 twist worked. :cheers:
 

hoarder

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#77
I wondered about that twist rate. I've had many rifles and I don't think any besides AR's had faster than 1 in 10 twist. One in 7 seems outrageously fast.
 

honu5050

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#78
I wondered about that twist rate. I've had many rifles and I don't think any besides AR's had faster than 1 in 10 twist. One in 7 seems outrageously fast.
ya have to be a guy like stoner to figure out all the correct variables n' for his time he was da man . wasn't his error the ar15 malfunctioned ! mic political snafu $. 1 in 7 is a fast twist for a speedy bullet.
 

nickndfl

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#79
How many of you have a degree in gunsmithing?

How many of you have carried an AK in battle?

How many of you have done BOTH?

answer? NONE, that's how many.

Noworries, you know jack

$860 for an AR?

PFHHTTT

AMD65 at Centerfire systems $400

Add in TWO CASES of 7.62x39 for $230 each and you are AT $860

Ever hear of a Dragunov? NOT THE COPIES currently sold - but a REAL Dragunov? it will shoot the RINGS out of an AR-15 at 1000 yards all day long. WITH the 7.62x54R round, you will be more prepared than ANYONE with an AR of any stripe

Sorry, and even the currently Romanian made Dragunov (it's not a Dragunov) works quite well and again, anyone with even THIS COPY will be more prepared than ANYONE with an AR of any stripe

Question, WHY IS THE MILITARY currently testing the 6.8mm round out of an AR platform? Because that .223/5.56 round is not adequate IN THE FIELD.

And if your BATTLE rifle's ammo caliber doesn't start with a THREE you are wasting your time and money.

But, hey, go ahead and listen to all those great AR fans. YOU KNOW WHY the military finds it works so well? Because that AR equipped SOLDIER is backed by armor, air, and arty. YOU GOT ANY THOSE? If so, use that AR and then CALL FOR AIR SUPPORT. Cause you gonna need it.

Sorry, but THOSE FACTS are actual, in the field, battle tested :biggrin:

I didn't see an AMD65 for $400, but I sure like the German 8mm MG34s. Put one at the front of the house and one in back with 10,000 rounds of ammo each and a case of cognac and we could hold out for months.
 

Toxa

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#80
First, I tried a search on these, but name to short.

Second, I have read and understand the difference and usage between AR and AK's.

The real question is what would y'all be buying or have bought and love?
Manufacturer / Country and model(s)?
What are things I need to look for in each
What is the best round to use? (based on availability & cost)

I am wanting to purchase one or the other, but need your help.

Thanks in Advance,
RK
Simple, AK get an Arsenal SGL-31 side folder (5.45mm). Great rifle, all the parts that matter are made and assambled on same plant as Russian AKs. Ammo is ~$190 for 1,080 round spam can. Buy as much as you can when it's in stock.
As far as AR goes, Colt, Knights, Noveski, BCM, Spikes are great manufacturers that you cant go wrong. Walmart has Colt 6920 every now and then for around $1,200 which is a great buy.