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Hoarding Nickels

hernancortes

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#81
With nickels you've got the "still in production" issue as well as the melt ban issue. You are locking yourself out of dollar loss , but you are also locking yourself out of dollar profit until both production and the melt ban end. Based on historical precedent it will take years for the melt ban to be lifted after production ceases. The annual mint reports show a decreasing dollar loss in penny & nickel production for the last 5 years. So it appears they will be produced as-is for a awhile yet, until cu/ni goes sky high again, then they may get back around to talking about a new nickel. If you're going to go heavy into nickels you best have a plan to liquidate them. I don't see any scenario there that doesn't involve a huge pain in the ass as well as settling for some price significantly back of melt.
 

louky

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#82
If you're going to go heavy into nickels you best have a plan to liquidate them. I don't see any scenario there that doesn't involve a huge pain in the ass as well as settling for some price significantly back of melt.
Texas man pays speeding ticket ;)

 

louky

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#83
Worst case scenario for $ bills: Disappears from junk drawer. Burns up. Digits you can't withdrawal.

Worst case scenario for Nickels:

 

latemetal

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#84
I'm still saving them out of change, them and copper pennies.
 

louky

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#86
That happened because of ignorance. Stolen during a house party. Guaranteed if they left $300-500 in bills laying around in the public kitchen junk drawer, they wouldn't have bothered with the nickels.
 
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Joe King

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#87
With nickels you've got the "still in production" issue as well as the melt ban issue. You are locking yourself out of dollar loss , but you are also locking yourself out of dollar profit until both production and the melt ban end. Based on historical precedent it will take years for the melt ban to be lifted after production ceases. The annual mint reports show a decreasing dollar loss in penny & nickel production for the last 5 years. So it appears they will be produced as-is for a awhile yet, until cu/ni goes sky high again, then they may get back around to talking about a new nickel. If you're going to go heavy into nickels you best have a plan to liquidate them. I don't see any scenario there that doesn't involve a huge pain in the ass as well as settling for some price significantly back of melt.
You should keep in mind that when the idea of "nickels" came along, the metal price was much closer to 5cents than it is now. All people were doing was engaging in a bit of no-lose speculation in case the price of the metal kept going up. If it had kept going up, it would have been the same as someone being smart enough to know to start saving all their silver coins in 1961.
 

mayhem

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#88

hernancortes

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#89
You should keep in mind that when the idea of "nickels" came along, the metal price was much closer to 5cents than it is now. All people were doing was engaging in a bit of no-lose speculation in case the price of the metal kept going up. If it had kept going up, it would have been the same as someone being smart enough to know to start saving all their silver coins in 1961.
Not quite the same because unlike silver a physical investors market for nickels hasn't been established. Silver is more than an industrial metal, the market for sterling and 90% proves that. Those forms of silver are also apparently useless for industry as-is but it doesn't seem to deter the public. The way I see it getting joe sixpac to pay melt for your, say, $2000 face value in nickels weighing 450+ lbs. is gonna be tough when he can just buy silver or gold instead. So at that point you're left with the scrap yards or the smelters and they've got you over a barrel. Nickels are no-risk speculation but you'd need to be prepared to wait years for a price spike, discontinuing production, a lift of the melt ban, and then a weak bid.
 
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GOLDBRIX

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#92
I scrounge the Pre-82 pennies and roll them. Half of the mintage in '82 was the beginning of the zinc/clad penny.
With my Tinnitus it is now to hard for me to discern the "RING" of Coppers to the "clank" of the zincs.

When the usd goes extinct or the price of copper get healthy again ya got a little something for barter.
 

louky

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#93
the mint has made almost 54.5 BILLION nickels since 1946. I’d feel pretty good about suggesting that 99% of them are still around, primarily because up until recently there was no incentive to try to melt them. If it was a stock, you’d have a market cap of about $2.7B dollars. That’s an ocean of existing nickels to contend with.
 

hernancortes

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#94
Yeah the tens of billions of nickels are the other big thing. Everyone out there has a change jar and the minute the melt ban is lifted they will try to deluge the refiners and you know how they'll react to that. Hot potato. In a price bubble spike you want your asset to be liquid. Look at a historical price chart of nickel.
It's also worth noting that if you decide to throw in the towel on your investment and deposit them at the bank, they can tell you take a hike if you show up with too many of them.
 

GOLDBRIX

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#95
....It's also worth noting that if you decide to throw in the towel on your investment and deposit them at the bank, they can tell you take a hike if you show up with too many of them.
One of the credit unions I use has a coin-counter for it's customers to use. Better than a "KOINStar" the counter gives you a receipt you take to the teller for deposit or other transactions, penny for penny, No coupons, No charge for service.
 

louky

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#96
You can pay speeding tickets with a small hoard. I wonder if you can post bail with a large one?
 

Joe King

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#97
Nickels are no-risk speculation but you'd need to be prepared to wait years for a price spike, discontinuing production, a lift of the melt ban, and then a weak bid.
Yes, years would be required, same as 90% in 1961.
The idea was/is that at some point they'd change the composition of new nickels and that the melt ban on them would eventually be lifted. Again, same as what happened to 90%.
Edited to add: the only reason there is a "melt ban" is due to the fact we need nickels in circulation with which to conduct commerce. Same as silver coins prior to their ban being lifted.
...but once enough time has gone by and new coins from another metal are in sufficient quantity to conduct commerce, the ban would be lifted.
However, by then the banks/fed would have sorted out most of the good nickels and they would end up far and few between. Kinda like how finding silver quarters in change are today.




If you are/were looking for fast bux, then no, nickels are not the way to go.
...but if their metal content ended up at .15-.25 cents per coin, how could you lose? Even if refiners only offered half price, you still win.

Like I said, it was a no-lose speculation. No different than trying to get your hands on anything that you have reason to believe has decent chance of gaining value. Except with nickels, your buy-in price is the lowest its price can go. Imagine buying stocks that can't fall below your purchase price, but have decent upside potential. Why would you not buy it, just in case it takes a Moon-shot? What have you got to lose in that case?
 

hernancortes

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#98
[QUOTE="Joe King, post: 1092772, member: 365"
Edited to add: the only reason there is a "melt ban" is due to the fact we need nickels in circulation with which to conduct commerce. Same as silver coins prior to their ban being lifted.
...but once enough time has gone by and new coins from another metal are in sufficient quantity to conduct commerce, the ban would be lifted.
However, by then the banks/fed would have sorted out most of the good nickels and they would end up far and few between. Kinda like how finding silver quarters in change are today.[/QUOTE]

But you can't assume that ---- There's been a melt ban in effect on cu pennies since '06 and they haven't been produced since '82. Why is there a melt ban on cu pennies when we've had their cheap replacement for almost 35 years?
The gold window was shut in '71 and wasn't made formally legal to own until over 3 years later. Similar for 90% silver. Look how long it's taken for the mint to do this study on new nickels, I think 5 years now. The point is the mint drags its feet as does the rest of the govt. When have they ever been in a hurry to do something to benefit average joe. You could be waiting 3 years for all this, you could wait 5 years, you could wait 10. Given other options like pm's this is a huge disadvantage. Then with the bulk it's a killer. I could buy a roll of gold maples or 5700 lbs. of nickels for the same money. One fits in my palm the other takes two truckloads. Kyle Bass's $1M in nickels would weigh 115 tons, requiring a warehouse. I wonder what his plan is to dump these, he never detailed any in the write-ups on his stunt. Which is what I believe it was, a publicity stunt.
 

Joe King

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#99
But you can't assume that ---- There's been a melt ban in effect on cu pennies since '06 and they haven't been produced since '82. Why is there a melt ban on cu pennies when we've had their cheap replacement for almost 35 years?
The gold window was shut in '71 and wasn't made formally legal to own until over 3 years later. Similar for 90% silver. Look how long it's taken for the mint to do this study on new nickels, I think 5 years now. The point is the mint drags its feet as does the rest of the govt. When have they ever been in a hurry to do something to benefit average joe. You could be waiting 3 years for all this, you could wait 5 years, you could wait 10. Given other options like pm's this is a huge disadvantage. Then with the bulk it's a killer. I could buy a roll of gold maples or 5700 lbs. of nickels for the same money. One fits in my palm the other takes two truckloads. Kyle Bass's $1M in nickels would weigh 115 tons, requiring a warehouse. I wonder what his plan is to dump these, he never detailed any in the write-ups on his stunt. Which is what I believe it was, a publicity stunt.
I never said it would be a good idea to sink millions into nickels. I said I save them from my change and currently have a gallon size jar that is 3/4 full of them. You seem to confusing that with making nickels your only investment? Get real. This is just a bit of low-end speculation/fun for me and that's all I'm selling it as to anyone else. Ie: no more than someone who saved all their silver change in 1961 and later sold bucket loads of them in '80.
Do you know what the price for NI/Cu will be in 20 years? Odds are a lot more than it is now. What would it hurt to have a bucket of nickels? Assuming you got the floor space for a bucket, of course. Are you gonna get rich on it? No, of course not. It's just something fun to do.
 

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wow. so much talk about nickels. I could see it when nickel was selling for, what $9.50 per pound?

Actually, there is a risk to stacking nickels. You could be losing money by not investing in something else that is likely to give a better yield.
Even if the price got back up to $9.00, and the Feds decided to change the composition, It would probably take a decade to get anywhere near what happened with silver.

I have two bank boxes stashed....but I have given up on the concept. There is probably more of an upside potential in stacking copper pennies.
 

hernancortes

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I get that. I've got a change jar on my desk with cu pennies separated by themselves. There's no harm and no risk to that. There's writers who's stuff is promoted around inflationist circles like this and they're always touting nickels and pennies as superior to pm's and that's where I take issue.
 
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hernancortes

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wow. so much talk about nickels. I could see it when nickel was selling for, what $9.50 per pound?

Actually, there is a risk to stacking nickels. You could be losing money by not investing in something else that is likely to give a better yield.
Even if the price got back up to $9.00, and the Feds decided to change the composition, It would probably take a decade to get anywhere near what happened with silver.

I have two bank boxes stashed....but I have given up on the concept. There is probably more of an upside potential in stacking copper pennies.
Nickel spiked to about $24 a lb in spring of '07 which drove the theoretical melt value of nickels to about 9.8 cents. But nickel investors were locked out of course. That's what I see happening again in the nearish future --- a another bubble style spike that ends well before the govt gets around to letting you cash in on it.
If you do the math it would take quite a feat for nickels to even triple in abstract face value, something like $30/lb nickel and $8 lb cu..
 

Fjpod

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But for now, nickel is about $4.50 per pound. Gotta get to almost $10 to hit face value....and stay there.
 

latemetal

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I thought there was a melting ban on US coins
There is currently a ban on melting Pennies and Nickles, but bans do end and if crap ever hits the fan, bans wont matter...
 

917601

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.......tungsten molybdenum copper Brinell hardness 790 has proven much more profitable than nickel.....2006, $29/1000- 2016, $1000+/ 1000. Choose your investment wisely, and unconventionally...and yes I do own some nickel....much prettier than brass. Should Hillary get elected, I may just retire.
 
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Someone_else

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Okay, new idea! If a nickel costs five cents and has five grams of Cu/Ni, then a kilo is ten bucks, and 150 grains would be ten cents. Both Cu and Ni are around 9 in specific gravity and lead is 11.3 (about 25% less).

The question is whether it would be useful to make projectiles out of Cu/Ni stock. They would be lighter than lead with a copper jacket, so that is probably a negative factor. But iron has a density of 7.9 so the alloy would carry more weight than a steel projectile. It would be interesting to know the answers to these questions.
"How would a Cu/Ni bullet compare with a FMJ Cu/Pb bullet? Look at range, accuracy, effectiveness, and barrel wear."
"How would a Cu/Ni bullet compare with a heavy handgun bullet, where the Pb/Cu bullet is 230 grains but the Cu/Ni might be "only" 175, but may have a higher velocity?"
In the past, I have seen 7.62x54 Russian ammo as light as 150 grain bullets. There must have been a good reason for them to make such lightweight bullets, where 200 would have seemed a better choice (to me, anyway.)

I am not trying to push any particular idea here, but I am asking if maybe those nickels could be useful recast as projectiles.
 

917601

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Okay, new idea! If a nickel costs five cents and has five grams of Cu/Ni, then a kilo is ten bucks, and 150 grains would be ten cents. Both Cu and Ni are around 9 in specific gravity and lead is 11.3 (about 25% less).

The question is whether it would be useful to make projectiles out of Cu/Ni stock. They would be lighter than lead with a copper jacket, so that is probably a negative factor. But iron has a density of 7.9 so the alloy would carry more weight than a steel projectile. It would be interesting to know the answers to these questions.
"How would a Cu/Ni bullet compare with a FMJ Cu/Pb bullet? Look at range, accuracy, effectiveness, and barrel wear."
"How would a Cu/Ni bullet compare with a heavy handgun bullet, where the Pb/Cu bullet is 230 grains but the Cu/Ni might be "only" 175, but may have a higher velocity?"
In the past, I have seen 7.62x54 Russian ammo as light as 150 grain bullets. There must have been a good reason for them to make such lightweight bullets, where 200 would have seemed a better choice (to me, anyway.)

I am not trying to push any particular idea here, but I am asking if maybe those nickels could be useful recast as projectiles.
...nothing new under the sun. Most all ammo, European, American, Russian ammo prior to the 40's had cupro nickel bullets...jackets nickel, lead core....US WW1 cartridges all were cupro nickel ( silver) jacketed,instead of copper. Cupro nickel was abandoned basically because of excessive barrel fouling. Bullets need lead for weight and but lead fouls the bore terribly so that is why nickel or copper the jacketing....historically interesting, the US even had to make alternative Ball ammo in WW2 with the bullet jackets copper washed STEEL because of copper shortages.... as is a lot of comm bloc nations ammo, even today. Pic from my collection of some rarer Fin 1932-40's 7.62x 54R belted for the Maxim.....and a few rarer French, US, Italian rounds, Jap andeven British...lots of interest ( and money) today in " collectors cartridges"....
 
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Merlin

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Joe King

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I bought one of these and my 1982 pennies are either 3.1 ounces (copper) or 2.5 ounces (zinc.) This is a great little gadget, well worth the money.
Yea, it's a good way to do it for all your pennies, as it's quicker than looking at each coins date to just drop one on and brush to one side for zinc, the other for copper.
...but again, only if you don't care about dates.


Edit to add: the vast majority of my 1982 pennies appear to be copper. Did the change-over happen late in the year do you think?
I believe it was in the later part of the year when the switch was made.
...and really, you can pretty much look at the coins and get a decent idea which are which because the copper ones always seem to have gotten a much better strike than the zinc ones do. That could be because of the material or due to the mint wanting to save some money.
 

louky

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I bet India citizens wish they'd hoarded some bank box nickel equivalent coins to go along with those grams of gold and 500/1,000 Rupee's they hide all over the house.


 
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