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How to make money buying and selling Numis

Rip Van Winkle

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#1
Other than capturing the spread, any other ways? Buy and hold? Flipping limited releases? Submitting new releases for grading (is there a good way to spot if you'll get a 70 before submittal)? Dipping ugly toned coins? I just bought a older proof set recently but it has some ugly toning, what are peoples thoughts on dipping (not cleaning) is it risky?

Any other ideas?
 

Rip Van Winkle

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#3

Mujahideen

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#4
I was under the impression it's rare (like 10%) to get 70s
Me too. Maybe this only applies to gold? Gold is soft and maybe that makes it easier to get a 70?
 

Rip Van Winkle

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#5
Me too. Maybe this only applies to gold? Gold is soft and maybe that makes it easier to get a 70?
I heard it is impossible to tell the difference between 69 and 70, if I could tell I would only send in 70s to save on the fees.
 

stAGgering

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#6
Other than capturing the spread, any other ways? Buy and hold? Flipping limited releases? Submitting new releases for grading (is there a good way to spot if you'll get a 70 before submittal)? Dipping ugly toned coins? I just bought a older proof set recently but it has some ugly toning, what are peoples thoughts on dipping (not cleaning) is it risky?

Any other ideas?
Grab the fad.
Perfect example The Simpsons Series from Perth Mint.
Limited and costly, but wanted by many, prices are going through the roof.
Know the mint releases and purchase from mint with account, wait a minute and sell as prices rise.
You say buy and flip limited, join the rest and make almost nothing, when factoring in hours spent !
Actually, some are money makers, but few in this swollen, limited mintage market.

https://www.apmex.com/search?q=simpsons
 

Rip Van Winkle

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#7
Grab the fad.
Perfect example The Simpsons Series from Perth Mint.
Limited and costly, but wanted by many, prices are going through the roof.
Know the mint releases and purchase from mint with account, wait a minute and sell as prices rise.
You say buy and flip limited, join the rest and make almost nothing, when factoring in hours spent !
Actually, some are money makers, but few in this swollen, limited mintage market.

https://www.apmex.com/search?q=simpsons
I saw that release, not sure if i'm seeing the prices skyrocketing though. A few years ago I doubled my money buying the truman president coins, I notice that lately these 'limited" releases are not selling out right away and the only people making money are doing presales or selling graded 70s
 

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#8
You can flip a thing here or there but aside from that unless your passion for metal is through the roof and beyond you can probably make a better living working @ minimum wage. You can get scammed, have to pay listing fees, sellers fees, deal with taxes, the stress and time of shipping, drop in spot price, failed mint offering that tanks in value (series II Perth Lunar Dragons) etc.
 

Rip Van Winkle

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#9
Whats everyone's take on dipping coins? Like ezest or acetone?
 
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Rip Van Winkle

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#11
Start with cheap coins until you get a feel/technique that works for you.
I tried acetone on tarnish and nothing I guess I'll order some ezest next
 

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#12
Become a coin dealer. Dealers are the ones who make money on numis, the collectors make them money.
 

stAGgering

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#13
Whats everyone's take on dipping coins? Like ezest or acetone?
Acetone is great for removing paint from painted coins, grease, adhesives, varnish etc.
E-Z-Est is awesome for removing tarnish.
I started with 90% silver coins, silver relics, and jewelry I metal detected, no numi value.
Now I will clean with EZ, coins which need to become new and air-tite sealed looking.
Have running warm water, a dish soaped, gloved hand, plastic coin locking pliers/hemostats, and new clean EZ for valuable coin cleaning.
Follow rules, sometimes more than once though.
Dip and move in container, place in running water, allow soap & water from hand to rinse well.
If you have an old old coin, you can dip for .5 - 1 second and instantly rinse to brighten and not remove all tarnish.
Do NOT clean silver in an EZ container which has cleaned copper, or reverse.
EZ will leave residue on stones in rings, but can be polished off of stone, no damage.

My favorite to collect are Cuba's .999 silver coins.
Many bought are unevenly aged.
I dip to completely clean, place on edge on upper window sill in kitchen, and tone 'em.
Unless purchased sealed, well toned, or the painted.

Need to color free, grey tone afterwards ?
Mix crushed to fine dust garden sulphur with neosporin very well.
Apply evenly to both sides of coin, do not fill reeded edge as it will become comparatively too dark.
Watch like paint drying or practice on a walking liberty.
Hot water and soap wash without contact if on numi proof.
It does not wash or rub off easily, but EZ removes it in seconds.
Practice like coins as each mix of silver and its finish are different.
Have never seen damage to coin left in EZ for a long time, but never looked with microscope.
Have seen copper tone to silver in dirty EZ, and the reverse.
Buy two containers of EZ, one for first dips and one for last dip.

Oh and it makes gold shine like greed in a pirates eyes.
Removes copper spotting on less than pure gold too.
 

Buck

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#14
Other than capturing the spread, any other ways? Buy and hold? Flipping limited releases? Submitting new releases for grading (is there a good way to spot if you'll get a 70 before submittal)? Dipping ugly toned coins? I just bought a older proof set recently but it has some ugly toning, what are peoples thoughts on dipping (not cleaning) is it risky?

Any other ideas?
Mint to Grader to Profit doesn't work often, plenty of certified coins are available to purchase, where their value is less than the combined total of the original mint price plus the grading fees plus the selling fees plus the storage fees plus your labor, etc
I buy a lot of them

Dipped coins should never be submitted for grading, however, soaking coins seems to be o.k., ammonia doesn't remove much tarnish, it gets the oils grime and filth, leaves the patina behind but dipped coins remove some of the metal, and the patina is on the outer layer of metal, so, it's removed when you dip a coin and the graders will give it a 'body bag' certification as 'Cleaned'

I never wanted to learn or get into the habit of cleaning my collection coins but I have played with some stuff

The egg and aluminum thing, I haven't done that yet but the way others have described it, it sounds like it works great

GL
 
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#15
Are there any coins like flying eagle cents in higher grades that could be cornered for something reasonable? Maybe older American commeratives?
 
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#16
Mint to Grader to Profit doesn't work often, plenty of certified coins are available to purchase, where their value is less than the combined total of the original mint price plus the grading fees plus the selling fees plus the storage fees plus your labor, etc
I buy a lot of them

Dipped coins should never be submitted for grading, however, soaking coins seems to be o.k., ammonia doesn't remove much tarnish, it gets the oils grime and filth, leaves the patina behind but dipped coins remove some of the metal, and the patina is on the outer layer of metal, so, it's removed when you dip a coin and the graders will give it a 'body bag' certification as 'Cleaned'

I never wanted to learn or get into the habit of cleaning my collection coins but I have played with some stuff

The egg and aluminum thing, I haven't done that yet but the way others have described it, it sounds like it works great

GL
Interesting so graders will automatically know if you dipped something in ezest? I have a 1951 proof Franklin with terrible front toning. Definitely don't want it body bagged though. What other way besides lack of luster and parallel scratch marks would they use to identify something like that?
 

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GOLDBRIX

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#17
Whats everyone's take on dipping coins? Like ezest or acetone?
As an amateur you are rolling the dice. Once a coin gets labeled "CLEANED" you've lost any potential value increase.
Get involved with a coin club in your area. You'll meet highly experience collectors and professionals. There are ways a coin can be re-conditioned to improve eye appeal yet not get branded as "CLEANED".

Save your tuition fees from the College of Hard Knocks.
 
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#19
Asked a few guys at the LCS, all advised against dipping but it seems like because there is a stigma against it.
 

GOLDBRIX

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#20
Asked a few guys at the LCS, all advised against dipping but it seems like because there is a stigma against it.
The "stigma" is Collectors want coins as close to perfection as possible and NATURAL.
Anybody can make a coin high shine through chemicals the trick is keeping it looking "Natural".

There are collectors who prefer toned coins. The desired natural toning comes on coins in contact with the canvas bags they are stored in or by laying in a wood drawer for decades.

The are scammers who treat coins to create the toning and the people who charge to authenticate and grade coins are on the watch for them too.

Like antique furniture natural wear, and aging is preferred.
 

newmisty

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#21
The "stigma" is Collectors want coins as close to perfection as possible and NATURAL.
Anybody can make a coin high shine through chemicals the trick is keeping it looking "Natural".

There are collectors who prefer toned coins. The desired natural toning comes on coins in contact with the canvas bags they are stored in or by laying in a wood drawer for decades.

The are scammers who treat coins to create the toning and the people who charge to authenticate and grade coins are on the watch for them too.

Like antique furniture natural wear, and aging is preferred.
Yeah, you don't want to become Rip-off Van Winkle.
 
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#22
The "stigma" is Collectors want coins as close to perfection as possible and NATURAL.
Anybody can make a coin high shine through chemicals the trick is keeping it looking "Natural".

There are collectors who prefer toned coins. The desired natural toning comes on coins in contact with the canvas bags they are stored in or by laying in a wood drawer for decades.

The are scammers who treat coins to create the toning and the people who charge to authenticate and grade coins are on the watch for them too.

Like antique furniture natural wear, and aging is preferred.
I understand but these guys also dip, the guy that owns the coin shop said he probably dips two or three times a year max. That's why I'm worried about these Chinese counterfeit coins that are starting to get so good, if they actually ever start to make them out of the real metal you might not even be able to tell that they're fake and crash the whole coin market
 
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#23
Yeah, you don't want to become Rip-off Van Winkle.
Yeah except there's always a risk with dipping even by the people that do it. You have the potential to make the coin worthless as well. I'm just trying to read up on all the facts before I decide. Also keep in mind that the grading companies perform 'conservation' on coins.
 

edsl48

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#24
I understand but these guys also dip, the guy that owns the coin shop said he probably dips two or three times a year max. That's why I'm worried about these Chinese counterfeit coins that are starting to get so good, if they actually ever start to make them out of the real metal you might not even be able to tell that they're fake and crash the whole coin market
I have given up on numismatics because of that reasoning and become a firm participant in the only buy at melt price club.
 

stAGgering

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#25
I understand but these guys also dip, the guy that owns the coin shop said he probably dips two or three times a year max. That's why I'm worried about these Chinese counterfeit coins that are starting to get so good, if they actually ever start to make them out of the real metal you might not even be able to tell that they're fake and crash the whole coin market

Yep.
THAT, is why I sold all my Chinese coins.
Some which were so dirty, cruddy with black age(racist?).
I E-Z-Est cleaned them along with some Philippines of same condition.
Then sulfur/neosporin aged them, gave them a pocket ride for a while, and sold 'em.
Absolutely no complaints from buyers who new Chinese and Philippine coins.
Sharp and aged c i r c u l a t e d coins, not MasS rated stuff.
3D printing is going to change the coin collecting, equal baseball, comic, stamp, etc.
Certified or junk... sad.

I just dipped my new purchase of 1969 Haiti 25 Gourdes 3.77oz & 10 Gourdes 1.51oz silver coins.
They both are not visually perfect like my full '67, '68, & '70 sets of three coins 25/10/5 gourdes.
These will go up on the window sill and be there for 18-24 months for a dark purple/blue rim and edge leading to reddish golden center on both sides. Might let 'em go super dark like the ATB Chaco.

Under 30x I can not see any change to the thin gourdes reeds, the immense amount of details, or hinted ripples in the proof.
I do see a shiteload of human touch marks not eye visible though.
Thankfully, only $20.42 an ounce delivered.
 
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#26
I have given up on numismatics because of that reasoning and become a firm participant in the only buy at melt price club.
I was talking to another guy at the local coin shop and he swears off any bars, because they're too thick to test unless you cut them open.
 
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#27
Yep.
THAT, is why I sold all my Chinese coins.
Some which were so dirty, cruddy with black age(racist?).
I E-Z-Est cleaned them along with some Philippines of same condition.
Then sulfur/neosporin aged them, gave them a pocket ride for a while, and sold 'em.
Absolutely no complaints from buyers who new Chinese and Philippine coins.
Sharp and aged c i r c u l a t e d coins, not MasS rated stuff.
3D printing is going to change the coin collecting, equal baseball, comic, stamp, etc.
Certified or junk... sad.

I just dipped my new purchase of 1969 Haiti 25 Gourdes 3.77oz & 10 Gourdes 1.51oz silver coins.
They both are not visually perfect like my full '67, '68, & '70 sets of three coins 25/10/5 gourdes.
These will go up on the window sill and be there for 18-24 months for a dark purple/blue rim and edge leading to reddish golden center on both sides. Might let 'em go super dark like the ATB Chaco.

Under 30x I can not see any change to the thin gourdes reeds, the immense amount of details, or hinted ripples in the proof.
I do see a shiteload of human touch marks not eye visible though.
Thankfully, only $20.42 an ounce delivered.
What do you use to see 30 magnification? Microscope?
 

GOLDBRIX

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#28
Yeah except there's always a risk with dipping even by the people that do it. You have the potential to make the coin worthless as well. I'm just trying to read up on all the facts before I decide. Also keep in mind that the grading companies perform 'conservation' on coins.
Not "worthless" but "worth less". The coin would never go below melt value.
You are looking to gain value, and as I said earlier experienced collectors and professionals know or have learned how to Conserve or Improve a coins condition without it being obvious and leaving "details"/evidence of alteration. "Dipping" is more than just dipping.
AND
I informed that Coin Collecting Clubs can gain one experience into proper conservation.

Heck it is your coin go for it. What do you got to lose ? A current coin that may grade MS62 you are trying to improve to 67 or higher ?
psst - Even most dipping practices only attempt to get about a 2 point upgrade.
Once a grading service tacks "CLEANED" on a coin you lose even the MS62 you had in your hand.
I see a College of Hard Knocks Diploma headed in someone's direction.
 
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#29
Not "worthless" but "worth less". The coin would never go below melt value.
You are looking to gain value, and as I said earlier experienced collectors and professionals know or have learned how to Conserve or Improve a coins condition without it being obvious and leaving "details"/evidence of alteration. "Dipping" is more than just dipping.
AND
I informed that Coin Collecting Clubs can gain one experience into proper conservation.

Heck it is your coin go for it. What do you got to lose ? A current coin that may grade MS62 you are trying to improve to 67 or higher ?
psst - Even most dipping practices only attempt to get about a 2 point upgrade.
Once a grading service tacks "CLEANED" on a coin you lose even the MS62 you had in your hand.
I see a College of Hard Knocks Diploma headed in someone's direction.
I'm trying to get the tarnish off a proof Franklin (see above pic) not looking to improve the grade. So far other than what I can find on a Google search everyone is being very evasive about the right way to dip (probably on purpose)
 

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#30
First off.......FORGET ABOUT DIPPING or CLEANING in anyway.....the only way i would ever advocate any form of cleaning would be for a coin for your own personal ussage only (might as well take a wire brush to it)

NO toning is considered ugly in numismatic circles NATURAL toning is considered a enhancement and brings a premium even ugly toning...forced toning is readily apparent to and a detriment to informed numismatic buyers

numismatics is like art work....usually only the dealers make any $ ...so if you want to play that game .....buy coins by the monster box...cut a deal with a numismatic grader...and get a tv show to sell the products...

actually one way you can make $ is to find NATURALLY toned coins and sell them for a premium....the idea of de-toneing coins to enhance value is absolutely ludicrous....toneing is considered a rite of passage and authenticity for a coin (like notches on a gun stock)
 
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GOLDBRIX

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#31
NO toning is considered ugly in numismatic circles NATURAL toning is considered a enhancement and brings a premium even ugly toning...forced toning is readily apparent to and a detriment to informed numismatic buyers
1550008745292.png
 
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#32
First off.......FORGET ABOUT DIPPING or CLEANING in anyway.....the only way i would ever advocate any form of cleaning would be for a coin for your own personal ussage only (might as well take a wire brush to it)

NO toning is considered ugly in numismatic circles NATURAL toning is considered a enhancement and brings a premium even ugly toning...forced toning is readily apparent to and a detriment to informed numismatic buyers

numismatics is like art work....usually only the dealers make any $ ...so if you want to play that game .....buy coins by the monster box...cut a deal with a numismatic grader...and get a tv show to sell the products...

actually one way you can make $ is to find NATURALLY toned coins and sell them for a premium....the idea of de-toneing coins to enhance value is absolutely ludicrous....toneing is considered a rite of passage and authenticity for a coin (like notches on a gun stock)
Did you see the picture above, I've seen the completed auctions enough to know it will not go for more with a grey toning. People like cameos and maybe some rainbow but there is such a thing as undesirable toning.
 

ttazzman

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#33
Did you see the picture above, I've seen the completed auctions enough to know it will not go for more with a grey toning. People like cameos and maybe some rainbow but there is such a thing as undesirable toning.
you asked for informed opinions.......i am very very informed...i gave a you a informed opinion.......believe what you want i am not going to argue,justify or belabor the point...
 

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#34
I doubled my money...



I folded $100 in half and put it in my money clip and then in my pocket.
 

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#35
Did you see the picture above, I've seen the completed auctions enough to know it will not go for more with a grey toning. People like cameos and maybe some rainbow but there is such a thing as undesirable toning.
Toning depends upon the series of coins you are dealing with. Standing Liberty Quarter collectors like their specimens to be blast white, bright and shiny. Some Classic Commemoratives collectors appreciate toning, especially tab toning, rainbow toning, etc. You have to know your market and sub-market.

Cleaning and dipping is best left to the highly experienced who don't use the commercial stuff that you buy off the shelf. Most of the "curators" use custom formulated and titrated solutions (including some electrolysis) for particular jobs and take multiple dips gently removing one film, or dirt layer at a time. Coin dipping/cleaning/curating is a very complex black art that uses lots of science.
 
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#36
Toning depends upon the series of coins you are dealing with. Standing Liberty Quarter collectors like their specimens to be blast white, bright and shiny. Some Classic Commemoratives collectors appreciate toning, especially tab toning, rainbow toning, etc. You have to know your market and sub-market.

Cleaning and dipping is best left to the highly experienced who don't use the commercial stuff that you buy off the shelf. Most of the "curators" use custom formulated and titrated solutions (including some electrolysis) for particular jobs and take multiple dips gently removing one film, or dirt layer at a time. Coin dipping/cleaning/curating is a very complex black art that uses lots of science.
Thank you, I appreciate the informative reason why not to do it. In my case it's a early 50s proof. It just seems this topic inflames some members, makes good info harder to come by
 
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#37
you asked for informed opinions.......i am very very informed...i gave a you a informed opinion.......believe what you want i am not going to argue,justify or belabor the point...
Would you like to buy my toned set for more than blast white? I'd be happy to sell it to you for only slightly above the average untoned sets.
 

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#38
Would you like to buy my toned set for more than blast white? I'd be happy to sell it to you for only slightly above the average untoned sets.
personally i hate ugly toned coins they offend my anal retentiveness, i learned my lesson the hard way, i genuinely wish you good luck with your endeavor
 

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#39
Did you see the picture above, I've seen the completed auctions enough to know it will not go for more with a grey toning. People like cameos and maybe some rainbow but there is such a thing as undesirable toning.
In reviewing that view you supplied. One can not tell if it is actually a PROOF Half / Set.
If it is a PROOF the additional value will be made by the grade the Half /Set receives from a third party grading company such as PCGS, ANACS, or NGS.
I have seen halves much less attractive yet graded PROOF. The PROOF designation authenication will be where additional value will be found.
DO NOT DAMAGE or ALTER a Proof COIN.
Best of Luck