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I'm reading more and more accounts of people getting screwed on their taxes...

hoarder

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#41
The tax codes are so complicated that anyone who criticizes them is wrong.
 

Thecrensh

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#42
Haven't done mine yet so I don't know my outcome.

I claim zero and have an extra $75 per paycheck taken out, in the past I've come close to breaking even which is the best outcome. I received a raise at the same time the taxes changed so there was some variation there. My typical bi-weekly check after the changes increased by nearly $300. 300*26=7800. One of the guys at work is in a similar situation with the exception that his wife also works with us. He was pissing and moaning that he owed $4500 this year. Assuming all things are equal he is still ahead $3300.
Exactly, except most people don't set aside the pay raise or differences in withholding...they go out to get the latest iPhone.
 

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#43
My "refund" and then some is always quickly robbed by property taxes.
 

Thecrensh

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#44
My 2017 "refund" was a $9.00 check to the IRS...I pretty much nailed the W-4 numbers. This year it wont be so good.
 

gliddenralston

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#45
How stupid are these people...the tax break was for wealthy corps/wealthy individuals...Trump failed on his tax break plan for the middle class (not surpising)...you all knew that so ignorance is no excuse!!!
 

tigerwillow1

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#46
Other than losing the state+local tax deductions, I don't see how anybody's federal tax liability can go up with anything close to a common single or family situation. What I see as the worst case is when itemized deductions happen to be equal to the new standard deduction. In that case, you've lost the old personal exemption and gained nothing from the higher standard deduction. Running two examples:

1) Married with $100k taxable income. Marginal bracket = 22%. Loss of 2x personal exemptions creates $8,100 additional taxable income, or tax increase of $1,782. Marginal rates lowered by 3% above $19k gives tax decrease of $2,430. Net result: Tax liability is lower.

2: Single with taxable income of $50k. Marginal bracket = 22%. Loss of 1x personal exemptions creates $4,050 additional taxable income, or tax increase of $891. Marginal rates lowered by 3% above $10k gives tax decrease of $1,200. Net result: Tax liability is lower.

I'm throwing this out as an opportunity to have any errors corrected, or for somebody to present an even worse worst-case example.
 

Cigarlover

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#47
I'm poor and haven't had to file a tax return in years. Used to be if you made less than 9k a year no need to file a return. I think that amount went up over the last few years. I do enough to pay my property taxes and meet my basic needs and then some. The key is to keep expenses low. Oh and not have a mortgage. :)
I never looked to see if the law changed and I have to file now but the IRS never got in touch with me to say I did so I guess I'm safe. :)
 

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enjoy your odyssey / adventure.
Thank you. So far the guards have been very nice to me and the food isn't as bad as they say.
 

Joe King

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#49
How stupid are these people...the tax break was for wealthy corps/wealthy individuals.
Seeing as they pay the biggest share of the taxes, why shouldn't they also get the biggest tax breaks? Those making less than $85,000/year only pay about 10% of all taxes. If even that much. What do you wanna do? Toss 'em another Nickel?





Trump failed on his tax break plan for the middle class (not surpising)...you all knew that so ignorance is no excuse!!!
How so? Almost all rates went down.

All I'm hearin' is more, "Orange man bad!" lol



2017taxrates.jpg


2018taxrates.jpg
 
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southfork

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#50
Me and the wife are retired, havent had to pay any taxes so far . Working on my 08 returns now to see if we can still itemize, That being said though I suspect many of the twitter feeds the op listed are democrat bots truth be told

edit 2018
 
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Joe King

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Joe King

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I suspect many of the twitter feeds the op listed are democrat bots truth be told
Or it's just the same squeaky wheels who hate Trump (because he beat their hag) still trying to make up excuses to justify their hatred.
 

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#54

Usury

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The tax codes are so complicated that anyone who criticizes them is wrong.
That is EXACTLY the reason it deserves more criticism. This overhaul did simplify a few things but didn’t go close to far enough. If it did it would’ve never passed though—everyone wants to keep their pet deduction.
 

hoarder

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#56
That is EXACTLY the reason it deserves more criticism. This overhaul did simplify a few things but didn’t go close to far enough. If it did it would’ve never passed though—everyone wants to keep their pet deduction.
Complexity has a motive.
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler" As Einstein is quoted as saying.

If something is more complicated than it has to be, look for ulterior motives.
Complexity is a defense against criticism for no one knows enough about a complex system to be able to criticize it without being criticized himself for inaccuracy.

The Federal Reserve and it's collection agency, the IRS, are perfect examples of this.
 

Usury

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#57
Complexity has a motive.
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler" As Einstein is quoted as saying.

If something is more complicated than it has to be, look for ulterior motives.
Complexity is a defense against criticism for no one knows enough about a complex system to be able to criticize it without being criticized himself for inaccuracy.

The Federal Reserve and it's collection agency, the IRS, are perfect examples of this.
After enough exposure to different CFR and USC regs, I confidently say it’s all of ‘em.
 

ErrosionOfAccord

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#58
I just finished mine. Solidly upper middle. There is no doubt in my mind that the tax cuts helped me. Return is about the same as last year and I get $500 more per month. The people bitching can't do maffs.
 

Cigarlover

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#59
Did trump do the right thing and expose the fraud for what it really is? Nope, just more shuffleboard. Shuffling taxes around is not what made America great. People flocked here in the beginning so they could keep their hard earned money. They come now so they can reap the benefits provided by the government.
The new deal and then the war tax in the 1940's doomed us to the point we are at now.
 

EO 11110

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#60
irs changes the number that i calculate that i owe them practically every year (i never get a refund) - mostly they say i owe more, occasionally less

my annual mini audit

i do it the old-fashioned way - -at the kitchen table with pencil and calculator. and if a line is too tedious, i just create my own estimate/short cut
 
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<SLV>

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#61

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Thank you. So far the guards have been very nice to me and the food isn't as bad as they say.
Make sure you keep the upper bunk, close to a window, and DO NOT Drop your bar of soap. Jus' Sayin'
:winks2:
 

newmisty

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Make sure you keep the upper bunk, close to a window, and DO NOT Drop your bar of soap. Jus' Sayin'
:winks2:
I bet you've seen your share of crazy scenes in the pen.
 

edsl48

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#64
Something to add to this being is why doesn't the tax rates start at zero income?
All the ballywho about the poor is meaningless.
The poor do not drive on streets? The poor do not use public services like parks and other tax supported site? The poor do not reap the benefits of a strong defense system that allows them to life in the "gimmedat" economy?
THey need to pay their "fair share" for once in their lives
 

GOLDBRIX

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#65
I bet you've seen your share of crazy scenes in the pen.
I could write a book. But there are others I worked with that are much better storytellers. I'll let that to them.
 

SongSungAU

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#66
is this a thing? People getting less "refund" this year than they are used to?

Wasn't this a result of the Gov reducing the witholding a few years back...something that happened during the Obama admin? Correct me if I'm wrong?

These Twitter posts sound like people who never voted for Trump to begin with. Without seeing past and present return info, there's no way to know how full of shit these folks are. "Worse tax return in a decade!" LOL! I flat out don't believe them.
 

Scorpio

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#67
the thing to be mindful of is the propaganda push that will go with this,

it has already started and they are part of it,

the media will spread this far and wide, planting multiple seeds of disinformation,

don't undersell this, as it is trouble along with the lack of action on free health care
 

southfork

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#68
Already started


Average Tax Refunds Down 8.4 Percent As Angry Taxpayers Vent On Twitter

Mary Papenfuss,HuffPost 18 hours ago





Average tax refunds were down last week 8.4 percent for the first week of the tax season over the same time last year, according to the Internal Revenue Service. Dipping refunds are inflaming a growing army of taxpayers stunned by the consequences of the Trump administration’s tax law — and the effects of the partial government shutdown.
The average refund check paid out so far has been $1,865, down from $2,035 at the same point in 2018, according to IRS data. Low-income taxpayers often file early to pocket the money as soon as possible. Many taxpayers count on the refunds to make important payments, or spend the money on things like home repairs, a vacation or a car.
The IRS had estimated it would issue about 2.3 percent fewer refunds this year as a result of the changes in the federal tax law, according to Bloomberg. MSNBC reports that 30 million Americans will owe the IRS money this year — 3 million more than before Trump’s tax law.
“There are going to be a lot of unhappy people over the next month,” Edward Karl of the American Institute of CPAs told Politico. “Taxpayers want a large refund.” Some 71 percent of taxpayers received refunds last year worth about $3,000 on average, according to Karl.
Scads of taxpayers are complaining on Twitter that they have always received a refund — but now owe the IRS instead.
The number of refunds sent out by the IRS was also down — about 24 percent — as the agency struggled to get up to speed after the government shutdown. The agency sent out about 4.67 million tax refunds in the week ending Feb. 1, compared with about 6.17 million in the same period in 2018, according to IRS data.
This year’s filing season, which began two days after the shutdown ended on Jan. 25, is complicated because it’s the first after the 2017 tax law was enacted. Though President Donald Trump boasted that the new code would be so simplified that people could file their taxes on a postcard, that’s not the case.
In addition, the changes complicated payroll withholding, so that not enough money was withheld by employers in many cases, meaning that people now owe more taxes. The new law also capped IRS deductions for paid state and local taxes, including real estate taxes, resulting in a nasty surprise for many filers. Several other deductions are no longer allowed.
The frustrations will likely continue to fuel support for plans to boost taxes on the ultra-wealthy. A poll last month found that nearly 60 percent of registered voters support a plan by Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez to impose a 70 percent marginal tax rate on the portion of annual income that exceeds $10 million a year.
Twitter is filling up with complaints from people whose situation has changed radically.
 

Usury

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#69
irs changes the number that i calculate that i owe them practically every year (i never get a refund) - mostly they say i owe more, occasionally less

my annual mini audit

i do it the old-fashioned way - -at the kitchen table with pencil and calculator. and if a line is too tedious, i just create my own estimate/short cut
You’d get fewer audits if you used software and filed electronically.
 

Usury

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#70
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Average Tax Refunds Down 8.4 Percent As Angry Taxpayers Vent On Twitter

Mary Papenfuss,HuffPost 18 hours ago





Average tax refunds were down last week 8.4 percent for the first week of the tax season over the same time last year, according to the Internal Revenue Service. Dipping refunds are inflaming a growing army of taxpayers stunned by the consequences of the Trump administration’s tax law — and the effects of the partial government shutdown.
The average refund check paid out so far has been $1,865, down from $2,035 at the same point in 2018, according to IRS data. Low-income taxpayers often file early to pocket the money as soon as possible. Many taxpayers count on the refunds to make important payments, or spend the money on things like home repairs, a vacation or a car.
The IRS had estimated it would issue about 2.3 percent fewer refunds this year as a result of the changes in the federal tax law, according to Bloomberg. MSNBC reports that 30 million Americans will owe the IRS money this year — 3 million more than before Trump’s tax law.
“There are going to be a lot of unhappy people over the next month,” Edward Karl of the American Institute of CPAs told Politico. “Taxpayers want a large refund.” Some 71 percent of taxpayers received refunds last year worth about $3,000 on average, according to Karl.
Scads of taxpayers are complaining on Twitter that they have always received a refund — but now owe the IRS instead.
The number of refunds sent out by the IRS was also down — about 24 percent — as the agency struggled to get up to speed after the government shutdown. The agency sent out about 4.67 million tax refunds in the week ending Feb. 1, compared with about 6.17 million in the same period in 2018, according to IRS data.
This year’s filing season, which began two days after the shutdown ended on Jan. 25, is complicated because it’s the first after the 2017 tax law was enacted. Though President Donald Trump boasted that the new code would be so simplified that people could file their taxes on a postcard, that’s not the case.
In addition, the changes complicated payroll withholding, so that not enough money was withheld by employers in many cases, meaning that people now owe more taxes. The new law also capped IRS deductions for paid state and local taxes, including real estate taxes, resulting in a nasty surprise for many filers. Several other deductions are no longer allowed.
The frustrations will likely continue to fuel support for plans to boost taxes on the ultra-wealthy. A poll last month found that nearly 60 percent of registered voters support a plan by Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez to impose a 70 percent marginal tax rate on the portion of annual income that exceeds $10 million a year.
Twitter is filling up with complaints from people whose situation has changed radically.
I can confidently say this is most likely due to the fact that folks cannot deduct unreimbursed business expenses any longer. And based on most of the “expenses” I’ve observed in tax returns over the years, they’re mostly fraudulent BS anyway. So yeah...those folks probably are getting back less.
 

SongSungAU

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#71
Already started


Average Tax Refunds Down 8.4 Percent As Angry Taxpayers Vent On Twitter

Mary Papenfuss,HuffPost 18 hours ago





Average tax refunds were down last week 8.4 percent for the first week of the tax season over the same time last year, according to the Internal Revenue Service. Dipping refunds are inflaming a growing army of taxpayers stunned by the consequences of the Trump administration’s tax law — and the effects of the partial government shutdown.
The average refund check paid out so far has been $1,865, down from $2,035 at the same point in 2018, according to IRS data. Low-income taxpayers often file early to pocket the money as soon as possible. Many taxpayers count on the refunds to make important payments, or spend the money on things like home repairs, a vacation or a car.
The IRS had estimated it would issue about 2.3 percent fewer refunds this year as a result of the changes in the federal tax law, according to Bloomberg. MSNBC reports that 30 million Americans will owe the IRS money this year — 3 million more than before Trump’s tax law.
“There are going to be a lot of unhappy people over the next month,” Edward Karl of the American Institute of CPAs told Politico. “Taxpayers want a large refund.” Some 71 percent of taxpayers received refunds last year worth about $3,000 on average, according to Karl.
Scads of taxpayers are complaining on Twitter that they have always received a refund — but now owe the IRS instead.
The number of refunds sent out by the IRS was also down — about 24 percent — as the agency struggled to get up to speed after the government shutdown. The agency sent out about 4.67 million tax refunds in the week ending Feb. 1, compared with about 6.17 million in the same period in 2018, according to IRS data.
This year’s filing season, which began two days after the shutdown ended on Jan. 25, is complicated because it’s the first after the 2017 tax law was enacted. Though President Donald Trump boasted that the new code would be so simplified that people could file their taxes on a postcard, that’s not the case.
In addition, the changes complicated payroll withholding, so that not enough money was withheld by employers in many cases, meaning that people now owe more taxes. The new law also capped IRS deductions for paid state and local taxes, including real estate taxes, resulting in a nasty surprise for many filers. Several other deductions are no longer allowed.
The frustrations will likely continue to fuel support for plans to boost taxes on the ultra-wealthy. A poll last month found that nearly 60 percent of registered voters support a plan by Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez to impose a 70 percent marginal tax rate on the portion of annual income that exceeds $10 million a year.
Twitter is filling up with complaints from people whose situation has changed radically.

LOL! The dependable Huffington Post.
From the article:
Scads of taxpayers are complaining on Twitter that they have always received a refund — but now owe the IRS instead.

I would be interested in knowing how many of these people are Democrats. Better yet, how many of these Twitter accounts are even real people? Perhaps they are Russian bots. LOL!
:dduck:
 

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#73
I am seeing a pretty mixed bag of results with my clients this year. Dual income couples with incomes over $100,000 are very surprised by the amount of their refund. They made no change to their W4 but when withholding tables were updated in February, they got more in their checks. Payroll systems are designed to “assume” this is the only income for the filer(s) and apply the tax tables accordingly. Comparing refunds year to year is not the way to see how you are doing. I have year to year data available and compare tax liability. I can tell them “you made $10,000 more this year but because of changes in the brackets, you only paid $270 more in taxes over last year”.
 

Cigarlover

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#74
Something to add to this being is why doesn't the tax rates start at zero income?
All the ballywho about the poor is meaningless.
The poor do not drive on streets? The poor do not use public services like parks and other tax supported site? The poor do not reap the benefits of a strong defense system that allows them to life in the "gimmedat" economy?
THey need to pay their "fair share" for once in their lives
Being poor doesn't mean you don't pay taxes. I pay plenty in property taxes and paid plenty of taxes in my working days. For what? So Pelosi can spend 17k an hr on a G5 to fly home on the weekends or to go on her "Fact finding" tours to Europe and the ME? Her booze bill alone for 2 years was 100k.

An f 35 costs 333 million dollars and cost on average 65,000 an hr to keep in the air. here's 0 chance of me ever paying enough in taxes to have a fair share of that burden.

Or how about the 1/2 billion Obama gave to Solyndra and 12 months later they are bankrupt, or how much did they spend on the particle collider down in Tx then a few years later said naaa, we are spending anymore on that, so they paid to have the hole filled back in.

Those stories can go on and on and on. Bottom line is all those taxes and all that money should have never been spent. Constitutional taxation is done by apportionment based on the census. So the census says you have 1 million in your state and your states tax burden this year will be x amount per person. Everyone pays the same amount unless the state makes some law stating otherwise. Thats all constitutional. Direct taxation is unconstitutional. Notice we never hear a politician discussing this issue?

The roads I use are paid for by the gas tax I pay every time I fill up at the pump. Its really not often though because I don't drive an hr a day to get to work. I go to town maybe once a week. My impact on the roads is pretty minimal. If the roads are fully funded by the gas tax than I would say everyone pays their fair share and it works in regards to the roads.
 

SongSungAU

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#75
The roads I use are paid for by the gas tax I pay every time I fill up at the pump. Its really not often though because I don't drive an hr a day to get to work. I go to town maybe once a week. My impact on the roads is pretty minimal. If the roads are fully funded by the gas tax than I would say everyone pays their fair share and it works in regards to the roads.
You assume your roads are paid for by the gas tax because that's what politicians told you/sold you. Have you ever checked into it to verify if that was actually the case? I imagine the politicians lied to you and the money they collected from the gas you bought was wasted and not put to the purpose they told you it would be used for.

Sort of like when they told you that social security money they withheld from your paychecks during your working life was going to be a safety net for you in your old age. They lied. They lied big time. That money was spent. It's not there.

If it were not for the Federal Reserve printing money out of thin air every year to cover the difference between what the tax revenue was and what the total spent by the government was.... the proverbial shit would have hit the proverbial fan a long time ago. The Fed is in existence to enable an out of control government that spends more than it should.

END THE FED.
 

edsl48

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#77
the thing to be mindful of is the propaganda push that will go with this,

it has already started and they are part of it,

the media will spread this far and wide, planting multiple seeds of disinformation,

don't undersell this, as it is trouble along with the lack of action on free health care

I already see the Media running with this in my neck o f the woods. The public instead of asking a tax professional decides to let a journalist be their tax expert instead. It is similar to the global warming debate where once again we see the public ignoring what scientists say in preference to listening to journalists instead; then we wonder why we are in the mess we are in today.
 

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#78

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#79
A situation of the new tax code leading to higher tax (excluding the cap on state+local taxes) under the new system hit me:

Married couple, AGI = 32,100, itemized deductions = 24,000

Under the old system, taxable income = 32,100 - 24,000 (itemized deductions) - 8100 (2x personal exemptions) = 0, tax = 0
Under the new system, taxable income - 32,100 - 24,000 (deductions, itemized or standard) = 8,100, tax = $810

An unlikely situation with itemized deductions being so high with an AGI of $32k.

This "might" be the worst case situation. Too many interactions in the tax code for me to know for sure. I'd just say to anybody claiming their tax bill went up by thousands of dollars due to the new tax law to prove it by posting the information used to calculate the tax.
 

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#80
Blue state peeps can't transfer all of their ridiculously high state and property tax onto the rest of us anymore. They have gotten away with this for a long, long time.
They will of course scream and howl at Trump and the rest of us instead of demanding their state and local get their shit together.

Your state .gov is causing your pain, so STFU.


.
 
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