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Intermittent Fasting

Son of Gloin

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#41
A warning. I've been doing the ketogenic diet and I've noticed that it significantly increases my sensitivity to alcoholic drinks. I can get wasted in nothing flat when I'm in ketosis. If your liver is producing ketones, it means your blood glucose levels are low. And your blood glucose helps to absorb alcohol and mediate its affect on your brain.

On the positive note I've dropped my weight from 173 to 147 (I'm only 5'6" tall.) It took me the better part of six months to accomplish that weight loss; but, hey, I'm happy to have gotten more lean. Would you believe that I still have a bit of belly fat (no abs showing) and those damned love handles? But I've gotten toned and fairly lean. I did three sets of 68 push-ups today and just polished off my fourth and last set with 75. I'm a 74 year old guy; if I can do it, you younger folks certainly can.
Damn, Merlin! Almost 300 pushups in one session, for a 74 year old man is extraordinarily impressive. Hell, that’s impressive for a man of any age.
 

Son of Gloin

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#42
One thing I learned about fat was by listening to a scientist who was an intermittent faster. He was researching in the area of weight control. He was basically saying that excess weight (fat) has two components. One part is the fat stored inside the fat cells and the other part is the fat cells and the infrastructure to support them, blood vessels etc. He noted that the body was quite 'lazy' in adding OR destroying the cells and the infrastructure that supports the cells. However, the body can store fat quiet quickly if the storage system exists. This is why you are slow to put weight on when younger, you have to persistently over eat for the body to build the excess storage capacity. Once you have that capacity you can lose that weight quite fast at first by emptying those fat cells and regain it just as quick because you have a place to store excess energy. This explains your natural "set point" and tendency to yoyo in weight. The set point become the fat cells you have @ a comfortable amount stored in them. The yoyo amount is the full to empty cycle given the number of fat cells you have.

If you long term fast you go thorough two pain barriers. First up when you get to day 4 or so and have run down your glucose levels and are moving into full ketosis. Secondly after you have emptied your fat cells and your body is starting to use the cells and infrastructure itself as energy (via autophagy). This is toward the end of a fast when you body is telling you it needs to eat again. The further you push at the end of the fast the more you reduce your ability to store fat by consuming fat cells. This lowers your natural set point and the lower you move your set point and the less weight you will tend to put back on. It gets damn hard and to get rid of all of your fat infrastructure and it would take repeated long term fasts with a few hard days at the end of each one to greatly reduce it. However it is about the easiest way to achieve permanent weight control, you have to reduce your ability to store fat to help you manage weight with less effort. The failure to reduce fat cell capacity is a part of the reason people always tend to put the weight back on.

Long term fasting is now something I intend to do twice a year or so. I typically go 14 to 21 days with 28 being my max. Over time I expect that I will probably only be able to do 7 days or so as my weight gets lower.

Once you are past the water and waste loss of the first four days (that weight will come back quickly) you can count on about a pound a day real fat loss. From day four to the end is where the fat is burned. I count on around 5 to 10 pounds of water and waste loss, you carry more water if you are running on glucose. To get an idea of how long you can fast work out your idea BMI weight, take that off your weight, take off about 7 pounds and add 4 to that weight in pounds. That should deliver a theoretical day limit for a fast, it will be more than you think and you likely will not make that until you are practiced.

Also look up supplements while fasting, I found salt and vitamin B5 was necessary for me. The first one I was lethargic, you are literally waking up unused systems, hormones etc... second and third time get easier. Don't give up.

JMO... 2c worth DOYDD etc...

I hope that makes sense!
That was very enlightening Zed. It totally explains people’s (my!) inability to lose weight and keep it off. I can see that I have a bit of a “road” ahead of me, to actually fix my metabolic problems; the fat, the insulin sensitivity, blood sugar and blood pressure problems, digestive issues. I’ve been over stressing my entire metabolism for so long with too much food and the wrong food that it will no doubt take a serious, long term effort to undo the damage and eliminate the fat storage capacity of my body. Too many beers, too many Reese’s peanut butter cups. Loved them both and lots of other bad stuff. Gotta get serious sometime, though. Laughing...

I’m very pleased with my start here, doing this OMAD plan, combined with keto. In time, soon I imagine, I will need to incorporate longer term fasting to really kick this whole program into gear. Right now, I’m mostly just concerned with lowering my BS and BP and getting myself off the medication, which I believe cause more problems than they help. But, to make this fix permanent, I will need to lose the fat permanently and normalize my metabolic function as much as possible for an old dog. Your explanation of fat storage and fasting above really made it clear to me I will need to incorporate longer term fasting into my program. But, now is the perfect time to do this, being unemployed, but with a pension to take care of the bills. No worries for me.
 

Zed

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#43
to actually fix my metabolic problems
Have a look @ Dr Jerry Tennant on YouTube, I think a lot of things in this area relate to his ideas. He might give you a few clues in getting back to full health. If his ideas appeal PM me and I can tell you what we are trying at the moment.
 

Zed

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#44
Oh, and another thing about fasting, it seems to make you immune to disease! I've had the whole family come down with the seasonal wog a few times while I've been fasting and it just doesn't touch me. Not even with snotty kids crawling all over me. I can't really explain it save for the idea that your gut is the path into your body for disease and an empty gut is not a place they can survive. I dunno... but it is a thing!
 

Rip Van Winkle

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#45
As far as longevity goes isn't there a "too much of a good thing" when it comes to exercising? If you increase the rate of cell replacement won't that ultimately shorten your life? I saw some podcast a while back ago about the subject but still naive.
 

Son of Gloin

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#46
I don’t know the answer to your question, Rip, but personally I would think it all has to do more with optimizing the normal healthy functioning of your body’s mechanisms; it’s metabolism, cardio-vascular efficiency, hormone production, etc. and cell replacement must be a part of that normal function. I don’t know that you would only have X amount of cells and once you use them all up, you’re done, but it might be so.
 

Son of Gloin

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#47
OK, my BS has been dropping like a rock for a solid week, now. After yesterday’s meal, it dropped down from a high of 130, in the morning, to a low of 108. I was very pleased, as I have not seen readings that low for years. Now, here’s the odd thing. This morning, I woke early, so I got up and took my meds and BS/BP readings. BS went up to 131 and BP went up about 10/5. Odd, but later on, about 8:00AM, it was up to 142. Very disappointing. Can’t think of anything I had done to trigger a bounce. Still, I shouldn’t get too discouraged; 142 is still lower than Saturday’s low reading of 145. That’s only two days ago. Was just thinking, maybe I’m watching it too closely. Got all jazzed up there, for awhile.
 
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birddog

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#48
Most people get a morning rise in BS. I wouldn't worry about that too much, but it is a good time to fast....

Cronicly high BG/blood insulin levels take time to lower. You can do it - it will get better!
 

Son of Gloin

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#49
Most people get a morning rise in BS. I wouldn't worry about that too much, but it is a good time to fast....

Cronicly high BG/blood insulin levels take time to lower. You can do it - it will get better!
You’re right, it will fluctuate. It’s been up in the high two hundreds for months. I need to excercise a little patience, here. The progress, so far, has been outstanding.
 

Son of Gloin

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Just a quick update on my current BS/BP/Fat reduction program. The first week, BS just plummeted from the high 200’s down to a low of 108. I was thrilled, of course, but then BS started to rise again and I wasn’t so thrilled. Anyway, after a period of days it seemed to “settle,” if you will in the middle to upper 100 range; I’m talking 160-180, here. I’m not too happy about that, but hey, it’s a full hundred points better than what it was a couple weeks ago.

Zed talked about fat “set-points.” I think your body also has blood sugar set points, also. I’ve noticed this, over the years, trying to get my blood sugar to drop and it just wanted to stay in a certain range, not budging for me, no matter what I tried to do, until I tried the OMAD/Keto dietary protocol. Then, it plummeted to unbelievable lows, for a moment, before settling back upward, but at a new, LOWER set-point.

I think what I need to do is just stick to the plan. Keep doing the OMAD routine and eating meat, eggs, homemade bone broth soup and vegetables and exercising regularly. This dietary plan continues to be easy to maintain. I am not getting hungry, too much, between meals and my appetite continues to soften over time. I’m eating less often and eating less per meal, just at a much higher level of quality, getting quite a lot of nutrition from each meal. I’m not perfectly strict. I brought some locally grown peaches home from the store, the other day, washed them up and put them in the fridge. Yesterday, I saw them in there and they called to me, so I cut one up and covered it in heavy cream and pecans and split it with my wife. It was freaking delicious! Like heavenly delicious. My BS didn’t move much. I’ve also been working on some sugar free cherry jello, off and on. The gelatin is good for you.

Today, I’m going to do an electrolyte cleanse. I’ve mixed up some apple cider vinegar (Braggs, of course), magnesium, potassium, Himalayan pink salt and lemon and I’m going to drink as much of it as I can reasonably stomach. The only food I’m going to eat is bone broth. That oughta work. This is a long term project. Clean eating, regular systematic fasting, good supplements, exercise and plenty of rest. I want to see if I can’t make the old man better than ever. Maybe I’ll be able to do a few hundred push ups, like Merlin someday. When I was about twenty, I used to be able to do ten one-arm pushups with either arm. I’d like to be able to do that again.
 

Cigarlover

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#51
Oh, and another thing about fasting, it seems to make you immune to disease! I've had the whole family come down with the seasonal wog a few times while I've been fasting and it just doesn't touch me. Not even with snotty kids crawling all over me. I can't really explain it save for the idea that your gut is the path into your body for disease and an empty gut is not a place they can survive. I dunno... but it is a thing!
I know many cultures have this thing about healing the body with fasting. Many religions talk about it and some even practice it once a week or something. One day a week anyway.. I've also noticed when my dog used to get sick he wouldn't eat. Just water. I think what happens is the body processes all excess foods first for a couple days. Once it emits out and there's no food to process it gets to the task of working on fixing whatever is wrong with the body. We are a self healing mechanism which is why I say we really don't need Dr's.
 

PhucilliJerry

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#52
Just a quick update on my current BS/BP/Fat reduction program. The first week, BS just plummeted from the high 200’s down to a low of 108. I was thrilled, of course, but then BS started to rise again and I wasn’t so thrilled. Anyway, after a period of days it seemed to “settle,” if you will in the middle to upper 100 range; I’m talking 160-180, here. I’m not too happy about that, but hey, it’s a full hundred points better than what it was a couple weeks ago.

Zed talked about fat “set-points.” I think your body also has blood sugar set points, also. I’ve noticed this, over the years, trying to get my blood sugar to drop and it just wanted to stay in a certain range, not budging for me, no matter what I tried to do, until I tried the OMAD/Keto dietary protocol. Then, it plummeted to unbelievable lows, for a moment, before settling back upward, but at a new, LOWER set-point.

I think what I need to do is just stick to the plan. Keep doing the OMAD routine and eating meat, eggs, homemade bone broth soup and vegetables and exercising regularly. This dietary plan continues to be easy to maintain. I am not getting hungry, too much, between meals and my appetite continues to soften over time. I’m eating less often and eating less per meal, just at a much higher level of quality, getting quite a lot of nutrition from each meal. I’m not perfectly strict. I brought some locally grown peaches home from the store, the other day, washed them up and put them in the fridge. Yesterday, I saw them in there and they called to me, so I cut one up and covered it in heavy cream and pecans and split it with my wife. It was freaking delicious! Like heavenly delicious. My BS didn’t move much. I’ve also been working on some sugar free cherry jello, off and on. The gelatin is good for you.

Today, I’m going to do an electrolyte cleanse. I’ve mixed up some apple cider vinegar (Braggs, of course), magnesium, potassium, Himalayan pink salt and lemon and I’m going to drink as much of it as I can reasonably stomach. The only food I’m going to eat is bone broth. That oughta work. This is a long term project. Clean eating, regular systematic fasting, good supplements, exercise and plenty of rest. I want to see if I can’t make the old man better than ever. Maybe I’ll be able to do a few hundred push ups, like Merlin someday. When I was about twenty, I used to be able to do ten one-arm pushups with either arm. I’d like to be able to do that again.
Are you having A LOT of protein? There are differing opinions about it but some people say if you have too much protein your liver will synthesize glucose from excess protein through gluconeogenesis which could be spiking your BS and kicking you out of nutritional ketosis. Others say you would have to consume an extreme amount of protein to start the process, but that could be something to experiment with.

On the push ups, I despise working out so I looked into other methods than doing 100’s of push-ups and what not and came across resistance training and Dr. Ben Bocchicchio (among a few others) and now just do two 15-20 minute workouts a week.
His main pitch is why do so many reps of something if only the last few create results, why not do those productive reps first and get the benefit without all of the effort. Seems to be working for me but your mileage may vary. He’s got some videos on YouTube if you’re interested.
 

Son of Gloin

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#53
Are you having A LOT of protein? There are differing opinions about it but some people say if you have too much protein your liver will synthesize glucose from excess protein through gluconeogenesis which could be spiking your BS and kicking you out of nutritional ketosis. Others say you would have to consume an extreme amount of protein to start the process, but that could be something to experiment with.

On the push ups, I despise working out so I looked into other methods than doing 100’s of push-ups and what not and came across resistance training and Dr. Ben Bocchicchio (among a few others) and now just do two 15-20 minute workouts a week.
His main pitch is why do so many reps of something if only the last few create results, why not do those productive reps first and get the benefit without all of the effort. Seems to be working for me but your mileage may vary. He’s got some videos on YouTube if you’re interested.
No, I’ve been careful about the protein intake, actually. I’ve noticed before, when trying different eating plans, that excessive amounts of protein won’t raise your blood sugar levels like carbohydrates, but will affect them, nevertheless. It’ll start dropping again soon. I’ll keep working the plan and be patient.

I’ve heard of Boccaccio, but never saw one of his videos, that I can recall. I’ll give him a look, though.
 

Son of Gloin

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#54
Are you having A LOT of protein? There are differing opinions about it but some people say if you have too much protein your liver will synthesize glucose from excess protein through gluconeogenesis which could be spiking your BS and kicking you out of nutritional ketosis. Others say you would have to consume an extreme amount of protein to start the process, but that could be something to experiment with.

On the push ups, I despise working out so I looked into other methods than doing 100’s of push-ups and what not and came across resistance training and Dr. Ben Bocchicchio (among a few others) and now just do two 15-20 minute workouts a week.
His main pitch is why do so many reps of something if only the last few create results, why not do those productive reps first and get the benefit without all of the effort. Seems to be working for me but your mileage may vary. He’s got some videos on YouTube if you’re interested.
OK, it’s Bocchicchio. I had that spelled wrong. What he’s doing is the HIT training method; basically one set to failure for each muscle group. That works for some people, but I never had much success with that method. Little gains in size and strength and I tend to get burned out, very badly on it. He was having a student working with bands, in the video I saw. I like bands for rotator cuff work and a few single joint exercises, but for the most part, I like good, old fashioned barbells and dumbbells. They just feel good to me. It’s all good work, though.