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Kitco Pool

About.Ag

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#1
For years, Kitco claimed that the Kitco Pool was 100% backed by physical precious metals, owned by customers, not Kitco assets, and segregated from Kitco assets.

This has all changed, without Kitco letting customers know.

The Kitco Pool is now backed in part by third-party pools (and pools/allocated accounts are not normally 100% backed). In June, 2011 Revenue Quebec seized $25M of metal backing the Kitco Pool (which I cannot see being possible if the metal was not owned by Kitco, and properly segregated).

Kitco has not responded to my questions, nor has their bankruptcy (CCAA) Monitor. I have started a page at http://about.ag/KitcoPool.htm to cover updates as I find out more information. I have more concerns that I plan to post about soon.

Given that Kitco has changed the safety of the Kitco Pool, I believe all prudent investors need to determine for themselves if the new safety level is acceptable to them. And since Kitco chose not to let customers know that they made major changes to the safety of the Kitco Pool, I encourage people to spread the word, so that customers do not end up unknowingly taking on an unacceptable level of risk.
 

Montecristo

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#3
About.ag,

I noticed your new research about Kitco just the other day.

I think you are being very fair in giving Kitco notice of your concerns and contacting them several times trying to get their comments. It is disappointing to me that thus far they have chosen not to respond. Hopefully, they will soon.

You are doing a great service voicing your concerns and sharing your research with us, thank you!
 

Ahillock

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#4
This proves that your bullion is not safe unless you have possession of it yourself, huh?
If you don't hold it, you don't own it.

Still boggles my mind that people "get it" and decide to go into precious metals to protect their wealth. But then leave possession of said physical to someone else. What is the point of physical then? Might as well play with paper gold and silver if you don't want to own and hold physical.
 

About.Ag

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#6
Does anyone here use the Kitco Pool anymore?

I could find lots of people using Tulving when he had serious problems, but I'm not hearing much from people using the Kitco Pool -- where are they?
 

Montecristo

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#8
I just had a conversation with someone "in the know" yesterday and he told me NTR has already closed down many of their melt and assay branches that they littered the country with while the gold scrap was booming and they will continue to do so until they are back to just their core refining plants.

Supposedly their new plans to catch the next big thing is to develop their own on line pool account system to entice the masses to give them their money while they hold your gold. Again this is just rumor, but apparently NTR does not have plans to make it a secured pool. They are banking on the amount of scrap they refine to cover themselves.

Which I suppose might be a good plan until, or if, someday TSHTF and people stop selling their scrap and want their gold from their pool accounts instead.

Disclaimer: although I believe what this person was telling me I have no actual way to know if this is true. Time will tell.
 

gringott

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#9
How much gold can still be out there waiting to be sold as "Cash for Gold"? Other than wedding rings, most people I see don't wear anything but junk today.
 

About.Ag

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#10
don't know but the kitco thing has been well doc'd for quite some time now and is certainly out in the market,

while the T thing was kept under wraps until she blew
That's the weird thing. When Kitco was raided (sorry, when Montreal had a "major power outage" that somehow caused $25M of metal at Kitco's headquarters to be seized) on June 7, 2011, word did get out that there was a problem. And there was talk on forums of some people closing out their pool accounts with no problem.

But from June 11, 2011 to October 7, 2011, the Kitco Pool participation only went down 2.1% (gold) and 3.9% (silver). That was a lot of money ($10M or so). But the number of gold ounces has stayed within about a 5% range since October 7, 2011 (and silver within a 9% range). That includes April, 2013, one of the busiest months ever for bullion dealers.

It's almost as if some rich dude put $300M in the pool (accounting for 90%+ of the Pool) and died, with nobody knowing about it, just letting the metal sit there. Meanwhile, nearly everyone else took their money out.

So who has 90,000oz of gold and 5Moz of silver sitting in the pool? Kitco doesn't get paid storage fees on that, so has to pay the expenses of storing it, and there isn't evidence of much Pool trading going on (if there was, I wouldn't expect to see the volume stay nearly the same month-to-month) where Kitco makes money off the spread.

With Tulving, there were lots of people complaining, and even a handful saying they ordered with no problems. But with the Kitco Pool, there is complete silence.