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Medical overwhelm: 'This system is doomed': Doctors, nurses sound off

gnome

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#1
Figured we needed another corona-thread specifically related to whether or not our medical system will sink or swim.

People I know personally in nursing or other hospital and elder care jobs are currently terrified.
Not enough masks, even basic cleaning supplies, never mind beds and respirators.

I don't know if quarantine has happened early enough or thoroughly enough, or if there is enough resilience in the system to adapt.
I do know won't be waiting months for the postmortem. Incoming.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...8QyiwJM432Y-CLVpSQfpHGj4NXz2Ev7wzrTeojWmfCtA4

"
'This system is doomed': Doctors, nurses sound off in NBC News coronavirus survey
More than 250 health care workers responded to a social media survey seeking first-person accounts from those on the front lines of the coronavirus pandemic.
Medical workers wearing their PPE, personal protective gear.
Medical workers wearing their PPE, personal protective gear.
March 20, 2020, 2:34 PM PDT
By Hannah Rappleye, Andrew W. Lehren, Laura Strickler and Sarah Fitzpatrick
A hospital nurse in Michigan says she and her colleagues have discussed bringing in bleach to make their own disinfectant wipes. A pregnant nurse in Ohio says she has no choice but to tend to critically ill patients without a specialized N95 mask. And a health care worker in Georgia has resorted to scouring local hardware stores in an effort to secure the protective masks.

These are just some of the stories told to NBC News by more than 250 health care providers on the front lines of the coronavirus pandemic, including many who work in major hospitals.

The accounts were solicited through an NBC News survey, pushed out on social media, about access to personal protective equipment (PPE), a broad term for the gear, such as masks, glasses, gowns and respirators, donned by health care workers to protect against the transmission of germs.

Nearly all who responded said there were shortages of PPE in the hospitals, outpatient clinics and offices where they worked.

Many reported being forced to ration or reuse supplies, including surgical and N95 masks, for fear of running out. Many also said they were facing shortages of basic sanitary supplies, including hand sanitizer and disinfectant wipes.

A nurse in Illinois shared a photo of her N-95 mask she keeps in a bag labelled with her name. Many healthcare workers are being asked to ration their personal protective equipment.A nurse in Illinois shared a photo of her N-95 mask she keeps in a bag labelled with her name. Many healthcare workers are being asked to ration their personal protective equipment.via social media
NBC News was not able to independently verify each account. But where possible, the facilities were contacted and given an opportunity to respond.

The nurse in Michigan, who is based in Flint and works primarily with immunocompromised patients, said that nurses at her hospital have been rationed one N95 mask each and are being required to store them in a bag and reuse them, against manufacturer guidelines. Nurses on her floor, she added, have also been unable to obtain enough disinfectant wipes.

“We ordered five containers the other day and we only got one,” she said. Like many medical professionals who spoke to NBC News, she asked to remain anonymous for fear of losing her job. “One container of bleach wipes for 42 beds.”

“I don’t feel like my hospital is failing us,” she said. “It’s the whole system that’s failing us.”

“We certainly would not ask a firefighter to fight a fire with a spray gun,” said Deborah Burger, president of National Nurses United, the nation’s largest nurses’ union. Burger, who has been a registered nurse for 45 years, said that neither the government nor the private sector are acting fast enough to get critical supplies to those who need them.

“It is a moral obligation of our government and our employer to provide safety equipment to those of us on the front line,” she said.

“We are unable to protect ourselves”

The overwhelming majority of the medical professionals across the country who responded to the NBC News survey expressed concerns about a lack of N95 masks, which offer more protection than surgical masks.

A health care worker at a hospital in Indiana described a Kafkaesque scenario: medical staffers can only get the masks when a patient has tested positive for the virus, but the facility has no way to confirm a case.

“There are many possible exposures in my hospital but are not equipped with the testing devices in order to confirm the cases,” the worker wrote. “We are then not allowed to wear proper PPE because they are not ‘positive’ and because our hospital is short on the PPE. We are also told that we are expected to keep the N-95 masks for several days and several patients and that they can be disinfected with Sanicloth wipes.”

“We do not have N95 masks, so we are being asked to intubate patients (which exposes us to entire airway) with normal masks,” wrote the pregnant nurse from Ohio. “It is unacceptable. We are supposed to treat every patient as suspected positive but we are unable to protect ourselves.”

The N95 mask filters out airborne particulates and aerosols, and the Food and Drug Administration advises that neither N95 masks nor surgical masks should be used more than once.

But in response to growing shortages of PPE, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has loosened its guidelines on proper use and reuse of masks. On Thursday, the agency advised that bandanas and scarves could be used by health care workers in place of a mask as a last resort.

“The fact that a recommendation like that came out from the Centers for Disease Control is mind boggling to me,” said Dr. Adam Friedlander, an emergency physician working in Atlanta.

“There was a time when a recommendation came from the CDC, we knew that it was evidence-based guidelines for how we could protect ourselves from becoming sick with a potentially fatal illness. Now we know the recommendations are coming from a place of desperation, acknowledging that these supplies are unavailable.”

A nurse who works at a major hospital in Massachusetts and spoke to NBC News on the condition of anonymity, said that medical staff have been told they must reuse their N95 masks five times before they are able to get a new one.

“It’s scary to have to reuse the mask,” she said. “At the same time it’s like, what are you supposed to do if there’s none to be had?”

“A nationwide problem”

The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services said in a statement this week that the agency has been steadily deploying PPE to areas in need from the Strategic National Stockpile, the nation’s supply of pharmaceutical and medical supplies, intended for use during a severe public health emergency.

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“We have been transparent that more supplies are needed – hence the request to Congress for additional funding so we could procure more and scale up production,” the statement said. “The role of the SNS is to fill the gap temporarily until states and localities working with the private sector can respond to the state and local needs.”

The survey responses reveal the scope of the shortages, as many medical professionals pleaded for the government to step up delivery of supplies.

“We have no proper PPE,” wrote one survey respondent, who works in a hospital in New York City. “We are being told to come to work even if you had a COVID exposure...This system is doomed for failure without immediate help from the military. We need PPE, vents, staffing, more hospital beds, more tests.”

In the meantime, health care systems and staff are being forced to improvise.

One doctor, who works at a rural health clinic in Virginia, said that clinics are increasingly being asked to fill the gap and send their PPE supplies to hospitals, where the need is greater.

But that, of course, leaves clinics — and the patients they serve — exposed.

“There simply isn’t enough stock,” said the doctor, who spoke on the condition of anonymity. “We have no N-95s or gowns. We have limited surgical masks.”

“This is a nationwide problem, even on the private side,” he added. “No clinic in this country, or hospital for that matter, is going to have enough equipment.”

The limited supply of PPE has forced some hospitals to take the extraordinary step of asking the community for help. Seattle Children’s Hospital in Washington has received thousands of donated protective equipment and is currently accepting curbside dropoff of additional masks, gowns and gloves.

“Thanks to members of the local and international community, to date we have received 15,100 isolation masks, 1,200 N95 respirator masks and 400 surgical masks from donations,” a hospital spokesperson said.

“I am so scared”

Three survey respondents reported that they were asked to work with patients who tested positive for the virus without adequate protective gear. Others reported that they faced disciplinary action for using PPE outside of specified circumstances.

A memo distributed this week to Monmouth Medical Center Southern Campus in New Jersey, part of RWJBarnabas Health Facilities, informed staff that PPE must be worn in all rooms containing individuals with suspected or confirmed cases, but that staff could be disciplined for wearing masks, gloves and gowns outside patient rooms.

“RWJBarnabas Health facilities, including Monmouth Medical Center Southern Campus, are concerned about the possibility of a potential shortage of PPE including masks, eye shields and gowns,” a spokesperson said. “We are carefully managing current inventory of items to ensure adequate supply of materials to protect our staff and the community.

Dr. Robert Morin, a plastic surgeon who works in emergency rooms in major hospitals in New York City and New Jersey, said that such policies, put into place in response to shortages, put health care workers at risk. “We don’t need hospital administrators going out of the way to make us sick,” he said.

Morin said that he has been exposed to patients with positive cases while working in an operating room without proper PPE. “I don’t feel like we’re getting the support we need,” he said.

“The chaos, the lack of supplies, the lack of equipment,” he added. “The numbers are just going to keep going up.”

Some survey respondents and others who spoke to NBC News reported searching for PPE at local stores or on websites, like Ebay.

A doctor in Philadelphia, who is married to a doctor who works in a major hospital in the city, said that her husband searched for an N95 mask at four hardware stores before his shift yesterday but could find none.

“He says, “It’s my duty,’” she said. “He is proud of doing all that he is able to do right now, which I am also proud of, but I am so scared. I can’t even begin to tell you.”

Dr. Nivedita Lakhera, a doctor in San Jose, California, said her hospital is working hard to get N95 masks for all doctors but they are in short supply. She shared messages with NBC News from doctors she knows who are worried about their own mortality.

“The doctors are talking about making living wills and what will happen when we are faced with this,” she said. “All of us are wondering which one of us will die.”
 

gnome

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#3

Scorpio

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I get it and don't blame them,

most cannot appreciate or even understand how supply chains function,
just in time inventory, production origination, etc.

they just need to understand that isn't how things work, no one can wave a magic wand and all of a sudden more masks are available, or gloves, or ?
 

Thecrensh

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I get it and don't blame them,

most cannot appreciate or even understand how supply chains function,
just in time inventory, production origination, etc.

they just need to understand that isn't how things work, no one can wave a magic wand and all of a sudden more masks are available, or gloves, or ?
That's just it; most Americans don't understand this at all. They simply go to the grocery store and viola! Goods are there.
 

edsl48

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I am to where I believe less and less about the whole fiasco. Let the damned thing run its course and move on. We can't live in self imposed caves anymore and, based upon some recent data, this whole thing has been blown way out of proportion.
 
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Scorpio

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#9
the mayor communist from ny is on tv now saying that whatever it takes,
that we should 'force' corporations to comply
force corporations to just start making stuff,

etc.
 

glockngold

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#10
the mayor communist from ny is on tv now saying that whatever it takes,
that we should 'force' corporations to comply
force corporations to just start making stuff,
etc.
Sounds good to me.
Let's just force Starbucks (they're a big corporation right?) to make medical equipment.
There, problem solved.
 

the_shootist

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#11
Sounds good to me.
Let's just force Starbucks (they're a big corporation right?) to make medical equipment.
There, problem solved.
Hey, we forced Smith Corona to make M1 Garands, Rock-ola to make the M1 Carbine and Remington Rand to make 1911's during war time, didn't we?
 

TAEZZAR

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#13
Sounds good to me.
Let's just force Starbucks (they're a big corporation right?) to make medical equipment.
There, problem solved.
Starbucks sucks ! If they made medical equipment, it too, would be 10 times it's worth ! :totally steamed::totally steamed::totally steamed:
 

gnome

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#14
Models for when your state's medical system will be in overwhelm under different mitigation scenarios.
Of course, the data is very imperfect and we do not know the extent of the contagion, nor how successful treatments will be.


https://covidactnow.org/?fbclid=IwAR3LG5GAct9seTmvg3218KkVFlVZ72tWASBqLuf4S_cPoVrPuWjaZt_gazc

Covidactnow.org was created by a team of data scientists, engineers, and designers in partnership with epidemiologists, public health officials, and political leaders to help understand how the COVID-19 pandemic will affect their region.
This tool is built to enable political leaders to quickly make decisions in their Coronavirus response informed by best available data and modeling.
We built this tool to answer critically important questions such as:
What will the impact be in my region be and when can I expect it?
How long until my hospital system is under severe pressure?
What is my menu of interventions, and how will they address the spread of Coronavirus?
Who built this tool?
CoVidActNow was founded by Max Henderson, Rep Jonathan Kreiss-Tomkins, Igor Kofman, and Zack Rosen, with medical and policy guidance from Nirav R. Shah (MD, MPH, senior scholar, Stanford University Clinical Excellence Research Center).

Screen Shot 2020-03-23 at 12.01.15 PM.png
 

edsl48

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#15
Here in Illinois our fat boy Governor of recent TV acclaim at slamming Trump has asked retired Doctors and Nurses to come out of retirement and volunteer to help out. My wife, a retired RN, and a Doctor were laughing about it as they are supposed to volunteer while the teachers get full pay to sit on their butts at home. Needless to say my wife and the Doctor are both not working for free while others get paid to do nothing.
The way it is in the liberal utopia of Illinois.
 

TAEZZAR

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Covidactnow.org was created by a team of data scientists, engineers, and designers in partnership with epidemiologists, public health officials, and political leaders to help understand how the COVID-19 pandemic will affect their region.

Too many chef's spoil the soup !!! Have you EVER known of a .gov agency, or a politician to actually solve a problem ?
 

Hystckndle

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Here in Illinois our fat boy Governor of recent TV acclaim at slamming Trump has asked retired Doctors and Nurses to come out of retirement and volunteer to help out. My wife, a retired RN, and a Doctor were laughing about it as they are supposed to volunteer while the teachers get full pay to sit on their butts at home. Needless to say my wife and the Doctor are both not working for free while others get paid to do nothing.
The way it is in the liberal utopia of Illinois.
Good post this one.
Thanks Edsl
 

Buck

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#21
16 million employed in the medical field, told to 'conserve' their mask use...
Apple donates 9 million masks, how many are in warehouses, in the supply chain? millions more in transit somewhere?

there has to be more in the hospitals, as a normally stocked item, then add millions more masks in the hands of other professionals(Apple, construction, etc)...then the general public buys whatever is left available for the average consumer, masks already targeted for the consumer, having no relationship to the quantity already targeted for the professional and medical fields...

i never really thought about this before


there's nothing here to see, it seems, except the volume
 

the_shootist

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#22
16 million employed in the medical field, told to 'conserve' their mask use...
Apple donates 9 million masks, how many are in warehouses, in the supply chain? millions more in transit somewhere?

there has to be more in the hospitals, as a normally stocked item, then add millions more masks in the hands of other professionals(Apple, construction, etc)...then the general public buys whatever is left available for the average consumer, masks already targeted for the consumer, having no relationship to the quantity already targeted for the professional and medical fields...

i never really thought about this before


there's nothing here to see, it seems, except the volume
It's all a big scam like everything else put in our faces today
 

Buck

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#23
It's all a big scam like everything else put in our faces today
Yes, all of it, to one degree or another, have all simply become a basis for more propaganda

I'm thinking something along these lines:
What the consumer is buying is not related to what the hospitals need, not at all, two different supply chains

Once the emergency began, medical staff had to become acutely aware of their daily use of these masks, which was probably massive: Wear one, take it off, leave it somewhere, don't go back to grab it, just grab a new one...etc...waste was probably never brought up, it was 'secondary' to 'lazyness' which was covered by the term 'professionalism' because they were 'always clean'...that type of 'lack of awareness' comes from 'being fat / phat', Welcome to America

and double 'Fat/Phat' is when the media can get the American Public to 'feel guilty' because they've hoarded too many...

Like having a MSM structure that is completely biased against the average American and is sponsored, outright, by the global cabal who are so hell-bent on the Fundamental Transformation of America while not truly understanding, their place in any NWO will require their absolute submission to any new State...

That fact alone isn't 'fat/phat'...no, that doesn't come in, until we understand that not everyone is willing to stand up against it...

That's 'Fat/Phat', where one's survival takes a back seat to ones mental condition...which, if one is watching a football game, one is conditioned to believe one is Happy, Satisfied, etc, well, that is, as long as they're eating Doritos, the large bag, and drinking a Bud Light

same shit, all across the dial...
 

Someone_else

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#24
Going back to my EMT training, I remember that the N95 masks were specifically called for when the patient had tuberculosis or some similar contagious disease.

Generally, I remember doctors wearing just dust masks (not N95). When I was looking at my masks two days ago, one type had a thin, clear face shield attached to the mask for protection from sneezing, etc. But the mask itself is just a dust mask.

From my observations, I can easily agree that a hospital may have a large supply of cheap dust masks, but maybe not the N95 masks, because they did not use them very often.
 

Buck

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#25
makes sense...i'm just surprised at the volume we're talking about here

and looking at some 'unintended consequences' that might come out of this:
Insurance Companies beginning to become aware of any charges related to mask usage and patient symptoms, hospital admins beginning to 'guide' mask usage throughout the hospital...people buying stock in companies just because 'they make masks'...

the usual stupid human tricks...
 

TAEZZAR

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#26
Once the emergency began, medical staff had to become acutely aware of their daily use of these masks, which was probably massive: Wear one, take it off, leave it somewhere, don't go back to grab it, just grab a new one...etc...waste was probably never brought up, it was 'secondary' to 'lazyness' which was covered by the term 'professionalism' because they were 'always clean'...that type of 'lack of awareness' comes from 'being fat / phat', Welcome to America
Well put, Buck !

I am wondering if spraying the masks with Colloidal/EIS Silver, would kill the bacteria/virus in the mask ?
 

Buck

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#27
give 'em copper head gear...LOL

um, you know, silver would be one of the best materials to spin into a medical mask, and there's an opportunity for someone

...i had to look, it's even more exotic than silver threads:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16099072

nanoparticles (consisting of a mixture of silver nitrate and titanium dioxide)
 

gnome

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#28
ICU units are at capacity. Over 5,000 medical personnel are sidelined because they are infected. Madrid converted an ice rink to a morgue.

 

SilverBuyer

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#30
Got a firsthand report in major U.S. city emergency room visits are down 30-35% recently. Less people getting in accidents, less people going in for stupid crap because they don't want to catch corona. More people going in because they are having trouble filling medications, or they are worried they got corona because they opened a package from China.
 

gnome

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#31
We've arrived.

https://www.masslive.com/coronaviru...AGao2U0TCB16gMmFajn3XQSoz0lCB_RIp7mIupsJ0Nl5w
Coronavirus in Massachusetts: More than 150 Boston hospital employees test positive for COVID-19
Updated 1:09 PM; Today 11:26 AM
11.4k
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By Jackson Cote | jcote@masslive.com
More than 150 employees across four Boston hospitals have tested positive for the coronavirus.

Forty-one employees at Massachusetts General Hospital, 45 staff members at Brigham and Women’s Hospital and 52 workers at Tufts Medical Center have COVID-19, according to the hospitals.

Fifteen employees at Boston Medical Center were also diagnosed with the viral respiratory infection, a spokesperson at the hospital said.


A total of 1,838 cases in Massachusetts and 15 deaths due to the virus have been reported as of Wednesday, according to the state Department of Public Health.

Middlesex County continues to be the area with the highest number of cases, with a total of 446 as of Wednesday. Suffolk County, where Boston is located, has 342 positively diagnosed patients.
 

gnome

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#32
Didn't take long. Brace for impact.

https://www.businessinsider.com/kio...eIpaST8RZtebn1DYr4PeAa6MFGa0B5dmTLABUztBJYib8

Nurse dies in New York hospital where workers are reduced to using trash bags as protective medical gear
Sarah Al-Arshani 20 hours ago







New York Coronavirus
Hospital workers near a tent erected to test for the coronavirus at the Brooklyn Hospital Center in Brooklyn, New York, on March 19. REUTERS/Andrew Kelly
A healthcare worker in a New York City hospital died from COVID-19 on Tuesday.
He was working with COVID-19 patients and learned he had the virus almost two weeks ago, according to the New York Post.
Protective equipment is running low: Healthcare workers in the same hospital system posted photos of themselves on Facebook wearing garbage bags as protective gowns.
Visit Business Insider's homepage for more stories.

A nurse at Mount Sinai Hospital in New York died from COVID-19 after learning he was infected by the novel coronavirus almost two weeks ago. Protective medical gowns are in such short supply in the Mount Sinai system that some nurses have started to use Hefty-brand garbage bags instead, according to photos on social media.

The New York Post reported that Kious Kelly, an assistant nursing manager at Mount Sinai Hospital in Manhattan, died Tuesday. He was 48 years old.

His sister confirmed his death to the Post, saying that she was told he had been in the intensive-care unit but that he did not think it was serious. The Post did not specify how he contracted the virus.

"We are deeply saddened by the passing of a beloved member of our nursing staff," Renatt Brodsky, a representative for the Mount Sinai Health System, told Business Insider in a statement. Brodsky did not provide any further details.

New York state has become the epicenter for the US's coronavirus outbreak, with more than 33,000 infections and more than 360 deaths. In New York and other areas in the US with large outbreaks, healthcare workers are reporting shortages of personal protective equipment like masks, gowns, face shields, and gloves.


At Mount Sinai West, in the same hospital system where Kelly worked, nurses published a photo on social media showing them fashioning plastic trash bags into protective outfits, according to the Post.

"NO MORE GOWNS IN THE WHOLE HOSPITAL," they wrote on Facebook. "NO MORE MASKS AND REUSING THE DISPOSABLE ONES … NURSES FIGURING IT OUT DURING COVID-19 CRISIS." One nurse is seen holding a box of Hefty Strong 33-gallon bags, more commonly used for lining household trash cans.
 

gnome

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#34
Louisiana has the highest per-capita CV deaths in the US. More than CA, which has 10x population.

https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news...SZ3zWFDGRzp0EoJcVU6VBK4gixR_xqo3R6KffZoj_WDWw

8:37 p.m. ET, March 24, 2020
More than half of New Orleans' emergency medical workers are under quarantine, mayor says
More half of New Orleans' medical emergency services personnel is under quarantine due to the coronavirus pandemic, the city’s mayor told CNN’s Erin Burnett on Tuesday.

With New Orleans hospitalizations expected to exceed their capacity in 11 days, according to the Louisiana Gov. John Bell Edwards, New Orleans Mayor LaToya Cantrell said she is looking for the federal government’s major disaster declaration to get a long-awaited relief.

“We're looking for that declaration to be approved so that it can unlock the much needed resources that our first responders need on the ground. For example, my EMS department, over 50% of my people are now on quarantine. And so while we've unlocked additional resources at the state level, the state can no longer go on without federal assistance at this time,” Cantrell said.
There have been at least 375 cases of coronavirus and 26 deaths in New Orleans so far, the mayor said.
 

Buck

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#35
Money, we need to throw More Money at this virus...better go get Maduro, he has Billions....
 

gnome

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#36
Money, we need to throw More Money at this virus...better go get Maduro, he has Billions....
No, we needed to do what Korea, Singapore, Taiwan did. Thermometers at the airport. Test and track every potential vector. Could have nipped it in the bud, but we were too good to accept WHO's test kits. CDC tried and failed to make its own. People with all the symptoms STILL can't get tested in much of the US. We could have solved this problem for a billion dollars. Instead, we are into the trillions and we've got weeks before we peak.
 

dozer99

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#37
So I can't believe that they are making health care workers (Doctors all the way down to the brand new EMT's working in the box) reuse N95 masks.

I'm going to be a little descriptive here: Reusing a N95 mask is just like reusing a "used condom". It is just something you do not ever do, not once, uck, gross.

What I really can't believe is that these big Level I hospitals didn't have a true disaster preparedness "supply" on hand to handle just this scenario. It's not like they haven't been warned over and over that an infectious disease outbreak could and would happen. In the end, I hope that hospital administrator in each or these cases is handed a jail sentence for what they have put their people through.
 

Buck

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#38
No, we needed to do what Korea, Singapore, Taiwan did. Thermometers at the airport. Test and track every potential vector. Could have nipped it in the bud, but we were too good to accept WHO's test kits. CDC tried and failed to make its own. People with all the symptoms STILL can't get tested in much of the US. We could have solved this problem for a billion dollars. Instead, we are into the trillions and we've got weeks before we peak.
but, in the mean time, Congress won't address the problem only...instead they're grasping for every cent they can take with their pay raise and all...now we're giving $15 million dollars to who for who??? oh wait, Nancy has a plane, because she deserves it, worth more than that...

Hypocrisy runs deep with the entire lot...but, hey, wait...

I just found another $100, here you go .gov
:godfather
 

Hystckndle

SWEATEQUITYIS$$$
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#39
So I can't believe that they are making health care workers (Doctors all the way down to the brand new EMT's working in the box) reuse N95 masks.
I'm going to be a little descriptive here: Reusing a N95 mask is just like reusing a "used condom". It is just something you do not ever do, not once, uck, gross.
What I really can't believe is that these big Level I hospitals didn't have a true disaster preparedness "supply" on hand to handle just this scenario. It's not like they haven't been warned over and over that an infectious disease outbreak could and would happen. In the end, I hope that hospital administrator in each or these cases is handed a jail sentence for what they have put their people through.
Exactly,
I would say it is the spreadsheet. As in spreadsheet rules.
JITD
Just In Time Delivery
If not on hand at their facility then in their central warehouse.
Lots of hospitals ( at least here ) have been rolled up into two giant units / competing businesses ( not for profit ) and use the " hub " concept for materials
to and from their sales "branches".
It is kind of like fractional reserve only dif.
Except this time....everybody wanted a bunch of the same thing...and at the same time.
JMHO YMMV
 
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everything

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#40
They whine, but my pals in health care industry, have money falling out of their pockets. With the OT I will see more boats, motorcycles, and brand new cars in their three car garages this summer. My friends in big pharma (don't have many), salaries pushing 200k. Those on the frontlines will get sick, they will recover, they will go back to work, and they won't get sick again from this virus. It's really that simple. Ok, some will die, well that's the beauty of the virus, building immune systems, and getting rid of the weak. Sounds like the balance of mother nature, yah think you can stop her?

The medical industry will use propaganda and any crisis to further their monopolies and collusion. Don't believe?, wait until you get your health care industry insurance bills next year. The chaos, and just reacting will lead to many mistakes, the lobbyists will be able to put a stop to lawsuits. Even my state is one of them already, we can't sue our doctors here, they put a cap of 100 thousand on malpractice, and thus my state has the cheaper quack insurance, no big thing, that means the crappy doctors come here so they can afford to practice. And, we can't find out who those crappy doctors are because the AMA won't share the info with consumer reports.

As for why is the U.S. becoming the epicenter now?, well the U.S. is the sickest developed nation on the planet, tops for cancer, heart disease, auto-immune disease, Iatrogenic disease (death by doctor) etc.

OH, and why will Germany fare so well? More nurses per capita!!!

https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/

SO NO THE SYSTEM IS NOT DOOMED, ITS JUST CORRUPT IS ALL.
 
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