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Modern Commemorative Coins / Eric Jordan

HistoryStudent

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#81
How can buying duplicates of keys be a mistake? Unless you're chasing a coin that's already ascended to lofty levels (eg. it wouldn't make sense to buy a half dozen MS Julia Tyler coins right now IMO), being lucky enough to multiples of a key at the original price (or close to it) sounds like a winner to me. If it would take too long to explain what they meant by that in the book then don't worry about replying HS. I just ordered the book a moment ago finally :) . Considering this book is less than $10 shipped, shame on me for waiting so long to pick it up.
Sorry NOT BUYING MANY of the easy to buy duplicates before they become very expensive for many reasons like trading, selling, etcetera.

I must learn to edit better. Sorry.

The BOOK I'm reading it again today for the sixth time...

I just went to moderncoinmart and ordered the SP hockey pucks to go with my dinner plates.

Remember to buy as close as you can to CURRENT TODAY'S INTRINSIC value (per Jordan's book).

cpthnsolo - you just ordered a book that will change the way you look at NUMISMATICS - read the darn thing slowly.

I know my SAINTS flattened out back in 2008-2009 and NOW I know the who, what, where, when, and the BIGGIE = WHY!

When you study the marketplace this site will really help:

http://www.coincollectingnews.org/


every week they post current sales and recent sales stopped:

http://www.coincollectingnews.org/u...ong-silver-eagles-pass-20m/1015505#more-15505

LOOK for LOW mintages to make your best bets on the future...
 

jogslvr

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#82
The sales number on the last issue ugly is tempting me again. May be because gold is at new highs that the last old girl is selling very slowly. If she keep going like she is, she'll give J tyler a run for the roses, huh?
 

HistoryStudent

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#83
Good stuff. YES but GRANT is even a bigger loser...

In fact all these 2011 GOLD spouses are LOUSES.

ugly, low mintage, low expectations, expensive, and the PERFECT STORM for:


I feel IMVHO (yeah, right!) that Jordan could have added two CHAPTERS:

1) USA is printing & spending money like a drunk sailor walking down an Amsterdam street having been on ship for 10 years.

2) Rest of the world is worse.

so: INFLATION & WORLDWIDE stupid govy spending.

Two Fine Chapters to direct the folks to be in an intrinsic currency like gold & silver.

His 60 trillion is now 100 trillion by-the-way. Guess the extra 40 trillion just happened the last few years, right?


It's not what we KNOW, it's what we know that just AIN'T so. Like the USA reserve world $ currency that AIN'T gonna be pretty soon.

PIIGS & USA
 

hernancortes

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#84
Finding value is what this book is all about, value is found in identifying & anticipating keys very early in their life. This is done by knowing the different modern series' structures and simply following mint reports, making a pretty educated guess as to what final mintage will be and of course using the info of mint insiders (ok not quite insiders but close) like the Mintnewsblog guy and Jordan to your advantage. One of the best examples was mintnewsblog guy stating emphatically that Julia would go off sale a few days before she in fact did... at the time the last mintage was the 2860 unc and 4800 PR #'s which was the lowest at that point for any spouse by a fair margin. This was the signal to buy last-chance hand over fist which a few people did, which explains why the final mintage of the julia is higher than the number cited everywhere.
 

NotTheOne

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#85
Of all the coins detailed in this book, one series is still flying below the radar and that is the platinum eagles. If you have a long time horizon they are worth a look at today's prices -- greysheet pays them no mind and that's to our advantage now---if you can locate the good ones, not an easy task since they are the lowest mintage coins of the last 100 years.
I recently finished a collection of plat 1/10's from 1997-2008. I also picked up all of the burnished w's, 2006-07-08. :bird: Prices aren't that bad, but some of the keys can be pricey.

If anyone's interested in plat's, I can point you in the direction of a good plat dealer.
 

HistoryStudent

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#86
Note that several SPOUSE coins are around the 5,000 PROOF level - in the lowest 50 coins in US mintage history.

That's quite a mark. Beats many of his platinum coins in Proof too.


Note also that Jordan has a chapter on bullion price and economy condition(s).


YOU should read that chapter three times because right now there is a flight to quality in high bullion coins.


Also see what happens to the KEY coins.


Remember also this is all temporary for as long as we are stuck in this condition - say 10 to 20 years.
 

NotTheOne

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#87
Note also that Jordan has a chapter on bullion price and economy condition(s).

YOU should read that chapter three times because right now there is a flight to quality in high bullion coins.

Also see what happens to the KEY coins.
Yes, I remember reading that, but the pg no. escapes me. I'll find it eventually.

Actually after reading the section on platinum, that was what helped me decide on collecting the series.

Referencing fractionals only: "The potential generated by having 11 of the strongest type coins in the last 100 years or so rolling down behind an extraordinary strong and lovely infant key is hard to overstate".

The $10 proof platinum eagles compare favorably in that they are each their own type coin and 11 out of 12 rank among the rarest proof type coins issued since 1859.

and

If the mint stops the fractional series (and they did) then the closed fractional platinum sets may be the greatest collecting opportunity seen in our lifetime and our grandparent's lifetime.

(pm for pg number)

Also the high intrinsic value minimizes any possible loss. ;)




Separately I wonder what the spouse (and the price of gold) will do the the legitmacy of the "sub-4000 mintage" term that is bantered about so freely. We guide ourselves by a book which cannot see the future of metal prices (although he does a good job trying to address it). Nevertheless, with ever higher metal prices, the mintages of some coin issues may be lower than the 4000 mark consistently. The new number may be "sub-2000" or "sub-1000" to achieve equality to past issues.
 

hernancortes

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#88
Barring some freak Mint-induced anomaly I see no spouse eclipsing the modern mintage Kings, the Burnished '06 to '08 platinum Eagles. Several of those have mintages below 3,000 with the lowest being about 2250. But that's not to say the best spouses won't trounce burnished plats since plat collectors are a very small group. Anyway in a fit of inspired geekdom I created a spreadsheet of spouse sales by week for every week they've been on sale. My work remains unfinished but the data is interesting. No unc spouse has failed to reach 1000 yet by week 3 or 2000 by week 20. Eliza unc may go off sale 2 months early (delayed release) just as Julia did but after week 9 she's only sold about 90 fewer than Julia had at that point and the element of surprise w/ the spouses is pretty much gone.
 

HistoryStudent

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#91
Barring some freak Mint-induced anomaly I see no spouse eclipsing the modern mintage Kings, the Burnished '06 to '08 platinum Eagles. Several of those have mintages below 3,000 with the lowest being about 2250. But that's not to say the best spouses won't trounce burnished plats since plat collectors are a very small group. Anyway in a fit of inspired geekdom I created a spreadsheet of spouse sales by week for every week they've been on sale. My work remains unfinished but the data is interesting. No unc spouse has failed to reach 1000 yet by week 3 or 2000 by week 20. Eliza unc may go off sale 2 months early (delayed release) just as Julia did but after week 9 she's only sold about 90 fewer than Julia had at that point and the element of surprise w/ the spouses is pretty much gone.
I am doing the same TYPE thing - for fun like watching the grass grow and waiting for sales figures.
 

HistoryStudent

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#93
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder...Oh wait, we're talking about first spouses, I forgot. Here are my votes for ugliest coins of the century.



Margie won for low mintage however...:biggrin:
 

hernancortes

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#94
This is what I have for unc sales after 8 weeks (can't guarantee it's spot-on)

E monroe 3832
L Adams 2400
Jackson 2576
Van Buren 2496
A Harrison 1983
L Tyler 1870
J Tyler 1892
S Polk 1842
A Taylor 1733
M Fillmore 2187
J Pierce 1634
Buchanan -?
MT Lincoln 2420
E Johnson 1825
J Grant - n/a
 

MoMoney

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#96
If I'm not mistaken, 2013 has 5 spouses in that years set.
 

HistoryStudent

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#97
If I'm not mistaken, 2013 has 5 spouses in that years set.
You are correct - Wilson had two wives during his time as Tyler did during his time.

Edith & Ellen Wilson to be specific.

Mo Money is one smart COOKIE!
 

NotTheOne

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#98
final sales

FIRST SPOUSE GOLD COINS ----- MS ------ PF

2007 Martha Washington --- 20,000 --- 20,000
2007 Abigail Adams -------- 20,000 --- 20,000
2007 Jefferson’s Liberty ---- 20,000 --- 20,000
2007 Dolley Madison -------- 12,541 --- 18,355
2008 Elizabeth Monroe ------- 4,519 ---- 7,933
2008 Louisa Adams ---------- 4,223 ---- 7,454
2008 Jackson’s Liberty ------- 4,754 ---- 7,806
2008 Van Buren’s Liberty ----- 4,334 ---- 7,515
2009 Anna Harrison ---------- 3,537 ---- 6,250
2009 Letitia Tyler ------------ 3,152 ---- 5,163
2009 Julia Tyler -------------- 2,861 ---- 4,830
2009 Sarah Polk -------------- 3,501 ---- 5,157
2009 Margaret Taylor --------- 3,430 ---- 4,787
2010 Abigail Fillmore ---------- 3,489 ---- 6,140
2010 Jane Pierce ------------- 3,333 ---- 4,843
2010 Buchanan’s Liberty ------ 5,384 ---- 7,304

And after a little quick math, we can see that the spouses don't play by the rules.
 
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hernancortes

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#99
OK if you are a subscriber to the Coin Dealer Newsletter (aka 'CDN' or 'greysheet') by now you've noticed there's a dealers ad on the back page, week in and week out, wanting to buy 'better date' 1/2 oz. $25 unc. gold eagles including the '86, '88-'92, '96, '01 and '07. For most of these dates he is paying a very strong premium for gems and even bigger for ms69. A quick look at the mintage table reveals nothing special at all about the extremely common '86. The others he wants have mintages 55k and below..... to be continued....
So I was thinking alright this guy is taking the long view and is playing contrarian to the die-hard attitude that gold eagles are strictly bullion. The practice of grading modern coins didnt even start until about 10 years ago. In all the time prior to that many or most of these were handled loose which ruins the gems. Of course this applies to all gold eagles not just the $25's so why is he so particular about the 1/2 ozers?
A date and mintmark set of gem $25's maybe more difficult to assemble than any other. The $5 is the most affordable to complete but is almost 5 times more common. The $50 is 6 times more common, has no real keys to drive interest save for the unc-w's and as a set is very expensive. The $10 would appear to be not a bad set w/ its interesting & scarce '99-w but $10's are still 60% more common than $25's.
A heads-up to cherrypickers with a long time horizon, this guy is probably on to something. Many a now-classic US gold coin was once viewed as nothing more than "money".
 
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HistoryStudent

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OK if you are a subscriber to the Coin Dealer Newsletter (aka 'CDN' or 'greysheet') by now you've noticed there's a dealers ad on the back page, week in and week out, wanting to buy 'better date' 1/2 oz. $25 unc. gold eagles including the '86, '88-'92, '96, '01 and '07. For most of these dates he is paying a very strong premium for gems and even bigger for ms69. A quick look at the mintage table reveals nothing special at all about the extremely common '86. The others he wants have mintages 55k and below..... to be continued....
So I was thinking alright this guy is taking the long view and is playing contrarian to the die-hard attitude that gold eagles are strictly bullion. The practice of grading modern coins didnt even start until about 10 years ago. In all the time prior to that many or most of these were handled loose which ruins the gems. Of course this applies to all gold eagles not just the $25's so why is he so particular about the 1/2 ozers?
A date and mintmark set of gem $25's maybe more difficult to assemble than any other. The $5 is the most affordable to complete but is almost 5 times more common. The $50 is 6 times more common, has no real keys to drive interest save for the unc-w's and as a set is very expensive. The $10 would appear to be not a bad set w/ its interesting & scarce '99-w but $10's are still 60% more common than $25's.
A heads-up to cherrypickers with a long time horizon, this guy is probably on to something. Many a now-classic US gold coin was once viewed as nothing more than "money".

Old HC friend and other coin friends,

His game plan might be really simple - one that I saw years ago.

SLAB SLAB SLAB SLAB modern coins and get a BIG banger....


1) Bang one you have a FLOOR with intrinsic value and it ain't going down (and can't with a 2,000 TRILLION dollar worldwide fiat system)

2) Bang two you now have a slab with a so-called population and not many of the 10000s of any modern are slabbed.

3) Bang three you also are a collector now and not of plain Jane bullion but registrable coins PCGS & NGC registries...

4) Bang four you can easily sell on Ebay or other on-line service now individually;

5) Bang five read the book and add many more BANGS to your stuff...

6) Bang six is that the new and old folks love the authentication that comes with the slabs.


Best wishes May you be Honestly Blessed,


HS


PS I've done this many times but one I will mention was that back a few years ago I bought 32 sovereigns MS raw state. I sent them in to NGC and slabbed them:

20 MS64
10 MS63
2 MS62

I paid over a hundred (probably $133 each as I remember 32 X $133 = $4256 BID war + slabbing) for them now they can slowly sell for $450 to $600 each. I hope you can do the math for the same game is available today if you pick and buy right. He's doing it so can YOU! I like the 1/4 ounce size too for in a little while they will easily be $1,000 each.
 
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Solo

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Thanks for sharing your thoughts regarding the eagles HC... On a somewhat related note, has anyone else been watching spouses and plat eagles on eBay over the last couple of months? Not only have the better coins not taken part in the rally, some of them have even come down in price. The interesting thing is that some of the premiums for pre-33 gold have really taken off (eg. MS63 $10 Indians are up nearly 50% in two months) so certain numi coins are doing well.
 

Irons

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I just got this one aug 10 before they suspended sales, my first purchase directly from the US Mint.
I'm impressed they really did a great job on these! :36_1_11:


View attachment 10038
 

HistoryStudent

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I just got this one aug 10 before they suspended sales, my first purchase directly from the US Mint.
I'm impressed they really did a great job on these! :36_1_11:


View attachment 10038
Congratulations.

My Great Uncle William James Knight as the Engineer on the GENERAL when he outran five Confederate trains.

At 80 MPH on a train cited for only 25 MPH!

Got the very first ONES from Abraham Lincoln in 1863.

I have the citation.


Here goes old friends,

HS
 

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HistoryStudent

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Below were the first ones to get the Medal of Honor from the US Congress and given by the President Abraham Lincoln.

The first EIGHT!


Grandma left the actual medal in Brooklyn, at 1935 Ocean Ave. in 1920 when they left for Shanghai, China during a depression
in NYC then. 33% were Unemployed then. That's why I study history.


Otherwise I'd have IT! Right now...
 

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HistoryStudent

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Grandfather was named Raymond James Knight, and Dad Raymond James Knight, Jr. after him...

Together we spent 120 years with my Uncle Robert F. Knight in Los Angeles law enforcement.

Hell of time from 1929 onward and sometimes working together.

The medal:

It would be worth about $50,000.00 to $75,000.00


but to me PRICELESS!
 

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Solo

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I just got this one aug 10 before they suspended sales, my first purchase directly from the US Mint.
<Hans_and_Franz_voice> Listen to me now, and believe me later Irons.</Hans_and_Franz_voice> If you only buy one more product from the mint for the rest of your life, buy this set in a couple months. Considering how much treasure you've lost at sea already, why not take a tiny chance on a semi-numi set :flute:? Worst case scenario is you can sell it to me next year for cost plus $50 :).
 

Solo

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My Great Uncle William James Knight as the Engineer on the GENERAL when he outran five Confederate trains.
Wow that's quite a story HS. I'm proud of my grandfather for being a Navy cook during WWII so I can't imagine how proud you must feel on some level to be a descendant of one of the first MOH recipients. Thanks for posting.
 

HistoryStudent

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Wow that's quite a story HS. I'm proud of my grandfather for being a Navy cook during WWII so I can't imagine how proud you must feel on some level to be a descendant of one of the first MOH recipients. Thanks for posting.
Dad hit the ISLANDS of

New Calledonia
Guadalcanal
Tulagi
Pavava
Ulithi
Okinawa

with the FIRST US Marine Division in WWII =

he lost 90% of his friends from High School.

He's still alive he retired from LAPD when I started in in 1966.

He's still alive at 87.

We talk everyday.
 

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hernancortes

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Went over to goldeneaglecoin.com and just snagged yet another modern mintage king, the '08-w unc. plat. $50 in PCGS MS69 for $290 over spot. Good news for --- whoever reads this and is serious about this stuff --- right now you can grab the '06-w unc. $50 for $200 over spot at the same site. Rarer than any spouse!
 

Solo

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Went over to goldeneaglecoin.com and just snagged yet another modern mintage king, the '08-w unc. plat. $50 in PCGS MS69 for $290 over spot.
You straight-up stole that coin HC! A PCGS MS70 just sold for $2200 on eBay two weeks back so a thousand bucks less for one grade down seems like the deal of the month to me :D.

Good news for --- whoever reads this and is serious about this stuff --- right now you can grab the '06-w unc. $50 for $200 over spot at the same site.
Thank you Sir :shakehands:! I'll be mailing the check tomorrow.

:w00t::top: :elefant:
 

HistoryStudent

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Keep looking there are still deals out there.

Even retail (right now) will look good if silver doubles soon as I THINK it will.
 

treetop123

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I had read through the thread looking for info on modern commemorative silver dollars, which I happen to collect. I had not realized these first spouse coins were .999!!!

I have want to transfer some of my gold into .999 actually. So i am curious which of these has the LEAST premium attached?

anyone willing to trade for pre33 gold? Id be especially interested in things that carry lower premiums then the pre33 gold with a pinch of silver to make up the difference. If such coins exist, and there is anyone wanting to make such a trade.
 

namwalker

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Got a question concerning the sale or purchase of commerative coins without either the box or certificate.

I have an opportunity to purchase a silver commerative dollar from either 2004 or 2005 that comes without either a box or certificate for $35, is it worth doing?

The other part of the question, if I do purchase the coin if I wanted to send it off to get it graded would I be at a disadvantage without either of these two items?

At $35 it would only be about $1 over spot. I think that it is a good deal, but was really curious about the fact that I would not be getting either of the two mentioned items and if a TPG would grade the coin.

I also have read Jordan's book and found that it was extremely informative. I still have to go back over certain parts of the book to better comprehend what he is talking about. It is a good read and contains an awful lot of information that takes awhile to sink in.

Any comments would be appreciated.
 

namwalker

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Congratulations.

My Great Uncle William James Knight as the Engineer on the GENERAL when he outran five Confederate trains.

At 80 MPH on a train cited for only 25 MPH!

Got the very first ONES from Abraham Lincoln in 1863.

I have the citation.


Here goes old friends,

HS
Congratulations on your tie in to history and family history.
 

Solo

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I had not realized these first spouse coins were .999!!! ... I have want to transfer some of my gold into .999 actually. So i am curious which of these has the LEAST premium attached?
Well the coins with the absolute lowest premiums are the 2007 coins as they made 20,000 of each type (less for D.Madison). Of these the best coin, and the only one I would buy for more than melt, is the Jefferson coin. Outside of the those coins there are a few here and there that haven't appreciated much, but I would focus more of value and potential upside rather than premium alone. Right now the best 'cheap' FS coins to pursue in order are:

MS Mary Todd Lincoln
PF Buchanan
MS Jane Pierce

Any of those at $1100 (current mint price) or less is a must buy. As for trading I've found it easier to simply sell something locally and then buy what I want. If you're looking to spend as close to melt as possible I would shop around for one of the above three for a bit, but if you don't find anything just pick up some Jeffersons. Good luck in whatever you decide to do.