• Same story, different day...........year ie more of the same fiat floods the world
  • There are no markets
  • "Spreading the ideas of freedom loving people on matters regarding high finance, politics, constructionist Constitution, and mental masturbation of all types"

No Doubt, We are being lied to, No Doubt !!

TAEZZAR

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#1
Well presented.
So who/what turned Trump around ?

 

the_shootist

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No clue but something sure seems to have changed with Trump! We elected an outsider, an anti-politician yet in three months it appears he's knuckling under just like the rest of them.. What are they seeing that forces such a profound change once they get into office? There is no saving the US of A folks.
 

BarnacleBob

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No clue but something sure seems to have changed with Trump! We elected an outsider, an anti-politician yet in three months it appears he's knuckling under just like the rest of them.. What are they seeing that forces such a profound change once they get into office? There is no saving the US of A folks.
I've said this over & over since day one, your not & cannot remain a billionaire in the billionaires club unless you ARE a competent member in good standing of the establishment.... !!! Geez whats so difficult about understanding this axiomatic fact???

The electorate was fooled again (like always) with only two choices: "bad" & "worse." Democracy was created by the El-ites so that when their politically selected agents place the boots on the throat, they can blame the voters for electing the usurper & abuser. Thus they & their hidden rulership remains hidden & w/o criticism.... Nothing ever changes thats not centrally planned & endorsed by the real rulers...

Do you really believe the nonsense that all votes are equal? These guys have been fixing federal elections for over a century... They are not about to jeopardize & risk their fortunes of millions, billions & trillions to uncontrollable unknown democratically freely elected candidates... After decades of observation, it doesnt matter whether its a Democrat or Republican that is seated... the centrally planned scheme always follows the same map... Trump is just the latest political actor bringing an illusional hopium fix for a frustrated populace rebelling against the centralized scam....

And there is "no doubt" that the U.S. is & has been acting as a proxy for Is-Ra-El ambitions in Palestine & MENA!

"Hope, the quintessential human delusion" -- The Architect

 

BarnacleBob

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Elites:

El: Hebrew for their god

Ites: From Ancient Greek -ίτης (-ítēs). Adopted in Latin as part of Greek loanwords, as -ītēs, often also as -īta. Often in Biblical tribal names. Thus either Levītēs or Levīta, plural in -ītae. In medieval Latin of religious groups, such as Marcionītae, Ebiōnītae, Monophysītae, etc.

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/-ites

suffix forming nouns

1. a native or inhabitant of
Israelite

2. a follower or advocate of; a member or supporter of a group

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/ite


El-ites / Elites = A follower or MEMBER of El & his club.
 

TAEZZAR

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Do you really believe the nonsense that all votes are equal? These guys have been fixing federal elections for over a century... They are not about to jeopardize & risk their fortunes of millions, billions & trillions to uncontrollable unknown democratically freely elected candidates... After decades of observation, it doesnt matter whether its a Democrat or Republican that is seated... the centrally planned scheme always follows the same map... Trump is just the latest political actor bringing an illusional hopium fix for a frustrated populace rebelling against the centralized scam....
Do we need to more than this ? NO !!!
 

Howdy

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No clue but something sure seems to have changed with Trump! We elected an outsider, an anti-politician yet in three months it appears he's knuckling under just like the rest of them..
No change at all. Many of us knew this is how it would pan out. How did we know? Because candidates always paint a phony picture before elections. Trump was never an outsider or anti-politician, he only pretended. As Barnacle Bob so aptly pointed out, one cannot become as rich as Trump without being cozy with the banking elite, and that means absolute loyalty to them.
 

skychief

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I am very disappointed with Trump. He has flip-flopped on nearly everything he campaigned for.

How's that WALL coming along, hmmmm?

Obamacare is still preventing me from affording Health Care insurance. My HMO dropped me.

Wheres the effing tax reform?

He said ISIS would be defeated in the first 90 days of the Presidency. Only 4 days left to get this done! - looks like this is another BIG FAT ZERO just like everything else.

I don't blame Trump. I blame myself. We all knew he wouldn't be able to deliver on his campaign promises. But we just couldn't bear the thought of having that evil _unt, Hillary as Prez. :Yuck:
 

keef

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Who is he 'cheating' with? Oh goodness, here we go...

I suspected those guys with the tablecloths on their heads/porno mustaches right off the bat.
 

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Color me duped. Trump was the last best hope in my mind. Now that he seems like all the rest there is no more hope. I treat everything and everybody with distrust and continue to plan protecting myself and my family and getting as much out of the system as possible as quickly as possible
 

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I don't blame Trump. I blame myself. We all knew he wouldn't be able to deliver on his campaign promises. But we just couldn't bear the thought of having that evil _unt, Hillary as Prez. :Yuck:
Exactly... its the major function of the ONE party TWO sided system. For almost 100 yrs in America there were numerous INDEPENDENT political parties, today its the one party political monopoly & cartel deceptivelyy pretending to be opposition to one another. By this means real voter choice is subverted & nominalized preventing the real hidden rulers & their agents from losing political powers....
 

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#11
The Foreign Agents Registration Act (FARA



The Foreign Agents Registration Act (FARA) is a United States law (22 U.S.C. § 611 et seq.) passed in 1938 requiring that agents representing the interests of foreign powers in a "political or quasi-political capacity" disclose their relationship with the foreign government and information about related activities and ...

====================================

December 9th 1945 International Organization Immunities Act relinquished every public office of the United States to the United Nations.

22 CFR 92.12-92.31 FR Heading "Foreign Relationship" states:
that an oath is required to take office.

Title 8 USC 1481 stated:
once an oath of office is taken citizenship is relinquished, thus you become a foreign entity, agency, or state. That means every public office is a foreign state, including all political subdivisions. (i.e. every single court and that courts personnel is considered a separate foreign entity)

Title 22 USC (Foreign Relations and Intercourse) Chapter 11 identifies all public officials as foreign agents.

Federal Rules of Civil Procedure (FRCP) 4j states that the Court jurisdiction and immunity fall under a foreign State.
 

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Its worth remembering that President Trump was taking a shed load of heat for being a Russian Puppet, with a single low key strike that he pre informed the Russians about, he's effectively lanced that boil and moved the agenda to North Korea knowing full well that the MSM being like some dipsy dame, will always be impressed by, and give precedence to size :)

I think I'm right in saying that even during the campaign, whilst his promises sounded good, most thought they would be hard to achieve ? So given the predictable clash with reality, and the shortness of tenure so far, its maybe a little early to give up on the guy ?
 

Mujahideen

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Its worth remembering that President Trump was taking a shed load of heat for being a Russian Puppet, with a single low key strike that he pre informed the Russians about, he's effectively lanced that boil and moved the agenda to North Korea knowing full well that the MSM being like some dipsy dame, will always be impressed by, and give precedence to size :)

I think I'm right in saying that even during the campaign, whilst his promises sounded good, most thought they would be hard to achieve ? So given the predictable clash with reality, and the shortness of tenure so far, its maybe a little early to give up on the guy ?
What was hard about not picking Goldman Sachs affiliated cabinet members?
 

Fanakapan

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What was hard about not picking Goldman Sachs affiliated cabinet members?
Like it or not, the 'Vampire Squid' has been at the centre of most big scale financing in the USA these last 100 years or so. So its a given that any competent operator in the world of finance will have probably been on the payroll at some time ? You're right, the GS name raises the hackles of most sensible people, but lets judge them on results ?
 

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Color me duped. Trump was the last best hope in my mind. Now that he seems like all the rest there is no more hope. I treat everything and everybody with distrust and continue to plan protecting myself and my family and getting as much out of the system as possible as quickly as possible
It was a long shot. Trump is now looking like a cynical exercise in gaining voter 'endorsement'... the whole exercise started with the Tea Party, they realised that public sentiment was headed off track. Like a good martial artist they stepped back harnessed the energy from the coming attack and turned it on the attacker. Trump was the vessel for this safe venting of sentiment, next time it could get ugly, maybe next time the public realises what the game is.

... still a long shot is better than no shot at all.

It's hard to lose a race when you own the only two horses in it!
 

tom baxter

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#17
Color me duped. Trump was the last best hope in my mind. Now that he seems like all the rest there is no more hope. I treat everything and everybody with distrust and continue to plan protecting myself and my family and getting as much out of the system as possible as quickly as possible
Yes, Get out as far as you can for sanity's sake. I can live happily in the system now, I only get aggravated when some government wants my name on a census or otherwise pokes its nose into my affairs.
 

917601

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#18
image.jpeg
Well presented.
So who/what turned Trump around ?

Your video is also part of a lie. A great lie to instill doubt and confusion. Facts, Saddam had many Chem weapons, used on Kurds and Iranians, bulk moved into Syria when invasion was imminent. Just ask some of our vets. My best friend blew his brains out ( PTSD) last year, after he received new hips by the Army for admitted chemically linked degenerative bone disease received in known areas where they burned / destroyed the weapons. The pain and meds took their toll. My rub is why does the Army and VA treat our vets for Chem weapon induced injury but will not disclose the weapons they found and destroyed? ....my belief, derived from Jims own words, many of the weapons were US made ( 155MM Chem shells) given to Saddam during the Iranian Iraqi war.....they gassed the $hit out of each other...that's another story I have covered well in past posts. In his honor I post his decorations, the only surviving memorium his loved ones have left ( besides a tombstone)......he served with honor and distinction, and loved every moment serving. The hands in the picture are of his mother, and we all know the truth, you sir do not and do a great disservice posting disinformation and garbage.
 
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Goldhedge

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The way I saw it is anyone would have been better than Her.


Still, you have to wonder if they have some pedofile sex tape, or some 'other goods' on these people.
 

Zed

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Still, you have to wonder if they have some pedofile sex tape, or some 'other goods' on these people.
The way this 'control system' works it seems that they have dirt on all of them. No doubt Trump has something over his head that someone one is using, even if it is as simple as, dare I say Jewish, finance with strings. I dunno but it seems to be being brought to bare now.
 
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madhu

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Exactly... its the major function of the ONE party TWO sided system. For almost 100 yrs in America there were numerous INDEPENDENT political parties, today its the one party political monopoly & cartel deceptivelyy pretending to be opposition to one another. By this means real voter choice is subverted & nominalized preventing the real hidden rulers & their agents from losing political powers....
When you guys who are the champions of democracy lament what do we Asians have left but to cover under the carpet? Democracy has degenerated into such a sham
 

Pyramid

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#23
IMHO, Trump is realizing that the Deep State is in control, and without votes from establishment Democommies and RINO CONgresscritters, nothing gets done. I don't necessarily see him as selling out and flip-flopping, but more so becoming more moderate and right-centrist in negotiations. The language and narrative coming out of the Trump administration has definitely shifted and that is troubling indeed. I'm not a Trump apologist and am not terribly impressed with the first 100 days either, but am willing to give him more time. He platformed on the extreme edge of many issues pandering to voters, yet knowing those platforms were largely unrealistic. He's signed a bunch of EO's (like Zerobama) that are potentially positive for our nation, such as elimination of the TPP. Other issues, such as Zerobamacare, ISIS, immigration, UN/NATO, etc. remain a work in progress. The globalist, corporate media are quick to claim "flip-flopping," but I'm willing to give the current administration more time to sort thing out with bipartisan support in the interest of our once-great nation. Good luck out there folks.
 

madhu

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#24
View attachment 90048

Your video is also part of a lie. A great lie to instill doubt and confusion. Facts, Saddam had many Chem weapons, used on Kurds and Iranians, bulk moved into Syria when invasion was imminent. Just ask some of our vets. My best friend blew his brains out ( PTSD) last year, after he received new hips by the Army for admitted chemically linked degenerative bone disease received in known areas where they burned / destroyed the weapons. The pain and meds took their toll. My rub is why does the Army and VA treat our vets for Chem weapon induced injury but will not disclose the weapons they found and destroyed? ....my belief, derived from Jims own words, many of the weapons were US made ( 155MM Chem shells) given to Saddam during the Iranian Iraqi war.....they gassed the $hit out of each other...that's another story I have covered well in past posts. In his honor I post his decorations, the only surviving memorium his loved ones have left ( besides a tombstone)......he served with honor and distinction, and loved every moment serving. The hands in the picture are of his mother, and we all know the truth, you sir do not and do a great disservice posting disinformation and garbage.
OMG. Very very possible. Deception at every level. All the dictators could not exist without the blessing of the major powers? Could they? Was saddam and bazuka al gas sad friends? What did saddam get out of that deal or was that another covert op?
I thought that the lie was " chemicals WMD were not found after Iraq 2.0. Well the handlers moved it to their next place of action. The lady journalist was probably truthful.
The rabbit hole keeps getting deeper. But Hezbollah, Sunni extremists are not my heroes. They are just paid mercenaries who do their bidding. Like BB quotes they will be used to get the agenda and then conveniently liquidated. Seal 6 Helicopter disaster?
 

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#25
No change at all. Many of us knew this is how it would pan out. How did we know? Because candidates always paint a phony picture before elections. Trump was never an outsider or anti-politician, he only pretended. As Barnacle Bob so aptly pointed out, one cannot become as rich as Trump without being cozy with the banking elite, and that means absolute loyalty to them.
Jimmy Carter comes to mind as an apt example of a candidate selling himself as an outsider; only to be assimilated by the Creature.
 

Aurumag

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#26
Color me duped. Trump was the last best hope in my mind. Now that he seems like all the rest there is no more hope. I treat everything and everybody with distrust and continue to plan protecting myself and my family and getting as much out of the system as possible as quickly as possible
The system of institutionalized theft, corruption, surveillance and murder has us surrounded.

The only safe space remaining is that incorruptible mindset which keeps us unfettered by earthly tyrants, their sycophants and agents.

The State of Jefferson has no geographical bounds, and the Kingdom of Heaven is eternal.
 
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Aurumag

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#27
View attachment 90048

Your video is also part of a lie. A great lie to instill doubt and confusion. Facts, Saddam had many Chem weapons, used on Kurds and Iranians, bulk moved into Syria when invasion was imminent. Just ask some of our vets. My best friend blew his brains out ( PTSD) last year, after he received new hips by the Army for admitted chemically linked degenerative bone disease received in known areas where they burned / destroyed the weapons. The pain and meds took their toll. My rub is why does the Army and VA treat our vets for Chem weapon induced injury but will not disclose the weapons they found and destroyed? ....my belief, derived from Jims own words, many of the weapons were US made ( 155MM Chem shells) given to Saddam during the Iranian Iraqi war.....they gassed the $hit out of each other...that's another story I have covered well in past posts. In his honor I post his decorations, the only surviving memorium his loved ones have left ( besides a tombstone)......he served with honor and distinction, and loved every moment serving. The hands in the picture are of his mother, and we all know the truth, you sir do not and do a great disservice posting disinformation and garbage.
Normally, I would hesitate to glorify the martial art of war, but from the time I could grasp a plastic army man, I was obsessed with guns, warfare, strategy, planning, shooting and scooting.

I had orders for P-Gulf 1 in 1991, but the "shootout" ended so quickly that I was never deployed. At one point soon after, I was sitting in the Oakland MEPS station with a recruiter friend looking at an available Ranger slot on the monochrome monitor.

I REALLY wanted that slot.

I chose my wife and kids instead.

Now in retrospect, I see that P-Gulf 1 was a logistical op engineered to pre-place weapons and delivery systems for future conflicts; like today.

My first active duty Army gig was guarding nukes and chem weapons.

Those weapons were either destroyed or deployed.

To this very day, I thank God that I missed out on that deployment, because alot of them were not destroyed.

So numbers, I salute both you and your friend, because if not for my wife and kids, my decomposing corpse might have had a tab, a CIB, and twice the ribbons I had when I went ETS in 1992.

Not for your service, but for your sacrifice.
 

Zed

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#28
When you guys who are the champions of democracy lament what do we Asians have left but to cover under the carpet? Democracy has degenerated into such a sham
... but it is not democracy. It is a corrupted form of 'representative democracy' that is closer to corporate fascism or a corporate state. China Inc and USA Inc now have more in common than separates them.

My 2c FWIW.
 

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#30
Its been a sham from the get go, or more precisely, and as defined by Churchill and his ability for succinct observation, 'Democracy is the worst system, apart from all the others'
We'd not know, we have never tried it.

Now for the first time since the last time is was tried we have the technology to try direct democracy. What are the chances of that? Low to....
 

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El-ites / Elites = A follower or MEMBER of El & his club.
I believe it comes from the french élite "choice, selection" which in turn comes from latin verb eligere, "to chose", and referred at one point to the process of electing bishops. Any connection to jews seems to me tangential at best.
 

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... but it is not democracy. It is a corrupted form of 'representative democracy' that is closer to corporate fascism or a corporate state. China Inc and USA Inc now have more in common than separates them.

My 2c FWIW.
Global fascism with real-time manipulation.
 

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#33
We'd not know, we have never tried it.

Now for the first time since the last time is was tried we have the technology to try direct democracy. What are the chances of that? Low to....
Direct Democracy ?

That'd be a sort of deal where everybody gets to vote on issues regardless of their ability to either understand the issues, or be able to make informed choices ? With a simple majority getting to pass things ?

That'd not be democracy, it'd be King mob given control :)
 

Zed

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#34
Direct Democracy ?
Yes as in the Athenian model or the original democracy.

That'd be a sort of deal where everybody gets to vote on issues regardless of their ability to either understand the issues, or be able to make informed choices ? With a simple majority getting to pass things ?
As opposed to the current model where the same said voters elect a candidate that is basically "bought and paid for" and votes the party line in a mostly unrepresentative fashion.

That'd not be democracy, it'd be King mob given control :)
All democracy IS mob rule which ever way you cut it, it needs to be a democratic republic with strong laws protecting the individual from the mob.

I have NEVER had political representation that reflects more than say 1/3rd of my views. The current system is a total failure in that regard and I am sure many, many people are in the same boat. Direct democracy would break the lobby industry and circumvent the "bought and paid for" governments that we get today, which is why it would never be allowed.

I think you are hostage to a flawed mindset, currently democracy is mostly an illusion... ask an American...LOL!

https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/...ycles/democracy-is-more-than-a-right-to-vote/
 

gnome

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#35
Direct Democracy ?

That'd be a sort of deal where everybody gets to vote on issues regardless of their ability to either understand the issues, or be able to make informed choices ? With a simple majority getting to pass things ?

That'd not be democracy, it'd be King mob given control :)
The Founding Fathers were right to fear democracy and limit it with a constitution.
Considering the approval rating of congress is around 18% on a good day, it seems representative democracy is failing as never before.
They simply do not represent the will of the people, and it's pretty obvious to everyone.
Given certain limits, direct democracy can work quite well.
The general populace may be stupid, ignorant and misguided, however they can hardly do worse than the politicians who are paid professionals at being stupid, ignorant and misguided by special interests with ulterior motives and lots of money.

California has had a long history of direct democracy through ballot measures proposed and voted on directly by the public.
Sometimes some stupid shit gets passed, but also some very good measures, such as limiting government from raising property taxes, or legalizing medical marijuana. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_ballot_proposition
However, with current technology, much better systems can be designed for identifying and voting on the best ideas that appeal to a supermajority of people.

BTW, how do you feel about Brexit? I'm fuzzy on the details, but that's at least a form of direct democracy at work.
 

Fanakapan

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#36
I have NEVER had political representation that reflects more than say 1/3rd of my views. The current system is a total failure in that regard and I am sure many, many people are in the same boat. Direct democracy would break the lobby industry and circumvent the "bought and paid for" governments that we get today, which is why it would never be allowed.
I confess to not being up to speed on the political scene in Aus, and the both of us probably have more of a handle on the American scene than many Americans, But I can assure you that the picture of lobbying you present is by no means as great as you suggest here in dear old blighty. The place is much too small for it to go unnoticed :)

You're right about a representative democracy rarely living up to what a lot of the voters were expecting. Its a useful blind that ensures that 'Das Volk' get the idea they have some input, whilst at the same time ensuring that except for the rare times that public opinion becomes unbearable, the folk calling the shots are the ones who have chips with which to play at the table. Government in all our countries does generally follow public opinion, but its slowish. But thats a good thing is it not ? The last thing that we ought to want would be effectively government by opinion poll that a direct democracy would bring, along with the frequent course changing that would be the result ?

As for 'Bought and Paid for Government', replacing the current setup might replace the persuasion of money interests with the siren song of the demagogue, to which those who imagine they should be heard, by virtue of their inclination towards the easy answer, are remarkably prone :)
 

Fanakapan

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#37
BTW, how do you feel about Brexit? I'm fuzzy on the details, but that's at least a form of direct democracy at work.
A very good example you raise :)

And a good example of how bad direct democracy would be ? The result being 51% for exit, and 49% against, was probably the worst result imaginable. Its resulted in division that I've never seen here in my life, and there have been as yet, few results from the decision showing it to be either good or bad. If as seems likely there will be negative economic effects from coming out, then things could turn nasty indeed.

On the 'Super Majority' idea, its interesting that the Brexit vote would not have passed muster in either the USA, nor Switzerland which is the favourite example of 'Democracy' used by those of an exit bent. Assuming that a Super Majority would be anything from 60 to 75%, the reality would be that it would rarely be achieved, thus leading to the newly 'Empowered' voicing the idea that a simple majority ought to be the hoop.

The Anglo Saxon democracies have evolved greatly over the last 100 or so years, and they do respond to the opinion of the masses. But the general rule still holds true that if you want get involved in the party, then you have to come with some luggage :)

Edit: Added this as I've just seen the news that the Tories want to have a General Election here. The bizzare part is that since the introduction of Fixed Term Parliaments some 6 years or so ago, any early termination of the government will require 75% of MP's to vote in favour, a Super Majority if you will. If only they'd have applied the same qualification to the Brexit referendum, I doubt we'd be paddling so fast up Sh1t Creek as we are now :)
 
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#38
A very good example you raise :)

And a good example of how bad direct democracy would be ? The result being 51% for exit, and 49% against, was probably the worst result imaginable. Its resulted in division that I've never seen here in my life, and there have been as yet, few results from the decision showing it to be either good or bad. If as seems likely there will be negative economic effects from coming out, then things could turn nasty indeed.

On the 'Super Majority' idea, its interesting that the Brexit vote would not have passed muster in either the USA, nor Switzerland which is the favourite example of 'Democracy' used by those of an exit bent. Assuming that a Super Majority would be anything from 60 to 75%, the reality would be that it would rarely be achieved, thus leading to the newly 'Empowered' voicing the idea that a simple majority ought to be the hoop.

The Anglo Saxon democracies have evolved greatly over the last 100 or so years, and they do respond to the opinion of the masses. But the general rule still holds true that if you want get involved in the party, then you have to come with some luggage :)

Edit: Added this as I've just seen the news that the Tories want to have a General Election here. The bizzare part is that since the introduction of Fixed Term Parliaments some 6 years or so ago, any early termination of the government will require 75% of MP's to vote in favour, a Super Majority if you will. If only they'd have applied the same qualification to the Brexit referendum, I doubt we'd be paddling so fast up Sh1t Creek as we are now :)
Got a question Fan, is Britain as divided socially as the US is? In the US the liberal cities and surrounding towns could not be more polarized and the divide in this country has never been more evident!
 

Zed

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#39
I confess to not being up to speed on the political scene in Aus, and the both of us probably have more of a handle on the American scene than many Americans, But I can assure you that the picture of lobbying you present is by no means as great as you suggest here in dear old blighty. The place is much too small for it to go unnoticed :)

You're right about a representative democracy rarely living up to what a lot of the voters were expecting. Its a useful blind that ensures that 'Das Volk' get the idea they have some input, whilst at the same time ensuring that except for the rare times that public opinion becomes unbearable, the folk calling the shots are the ones who have chips with which to play at the table. Government in all our countries does generally follow public opinion, but its slowish. But thats a good thing is it not ? The last thing that we ought to want would be effectively government by opinion poll that a direct democracy would bring, along with the frequent course changing that would be the result ?

As for 'Bought and Paid for Government', replacing the current setup might replace the persuasion of money interests with the siren song of the demagogue, to which those who imagine they should be heard, by virtue of their inclination towards the easy answer, are remarkably prone :)
I think that I'd actually propose a hybrid representative system where by most of the small stuff was handled by a rep and the bigger issues handed off to the voter base. Voting, even if web based and easy, more than say six times a year would get old quickly. It would need to be accompanied with MUCH better quality and more complete discussion of the issue in the public forum, something the reps would be responsible for. The current level of ignorance would need to be changed and I think that would come with the responsibility of the vote. None of this "pass it to find out what is in it" crap! Possibly the rep would have the responsibility of voting all his/her supporters votes IF they don't vote contrary. Accordingly his/her vote would have to be indicated ahead of the vote to give the public opportunity to vote contrary on the day.
 

Zed

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#40
BTW... I think that England will shine once the turmoil of Brexit is over. It probably will not even be a question by then, a good part of the EU may have folded. If it is to happen it should be quick once the right catalyst has occurred. France? PIIGS? So much potential for calamity there.