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Now even your own children will be fined by Obama’s government

Scorpio

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Now even your own children will be fined by Obama’s government under harsh new Obamacare penalties called ‘incentives’

Mike Adams

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(NaturalNews) For much of his tenure, President Obama tried to obscure, hide and flat-out lie about what his signature piece of legislation — the Affordable Care Act, a.k.a. Obamacare — would accomplish. Wheninconvenient truths about the law leaked out, however, Obama wielded his executive authority, even in contravention of the law itself and the Constitution, to delay the most damaging portions of it.

But now, with the 2014 midterm elections over and Obama unable to run for president again, there is no further reason to delay any further all of Obamacare’s provisions. Those that have been put off until now are set to take effect in just a few short weeks, and Americans by the millions are in store for some major sticker shock.

As reported by CBS News, even parents are set to be punished under the law:

With the Affordable Care Act to start enrollment for its second year on Nov. 15, some unpleasant surprises may be in store for some.

That’s because a number of low-priced Obamacare plans will raise their rates in 2015, making those options less affordable. On top of that, penalties for failing to secure a health-insurance plan will rise steeply next year, which could take a big bite out of some families’ pocketbooks.

Penalizing your kids, too

“The penalty is meant to incentivize people to get coverage,” senior analyst Laura Adams of InsuranceQuotes.com told the network. “This year, I think a lot of people are going to be in for a shock.”

This year was Obamacare’s first year, in terms of actually requiring people to sign up using federal and state insurance exchanges established under the law. For those who have thus far refused to do so, they will face a $95 tax/fee/penalty per person, or 1 percent of their income, depending on which is the higher amount. And don’t worry, Uncle Sam’s Internal Revenue Service is standing by to collect the fee by taking it out of tax refunds.

But wait, as the commercials say, there’s more. The tax/fee/penalty in 2015 is going to harsher. Any American failing to purchase mandatory health insurance coverage next year will face a penalty of $325 — more than triple the current penalty — or 2 percent of their income, whichever is higher. In addition, CBS News reports, children under 18 are going to be fined as well, at half the rate, or $162.50.

Adams told CBS News the flat rate penalties “will affect lower-income or middle-income households” (remember how many times Obama and Democrats who voted forObamacare said they cared more about “poor and middle class Americans”?) most. Also, she added, some middle-class families “may be making enough that they don’t qualify for a subsidy, so they won’t get a break if they are getting health coverage. It’s a big penalty for the middle class for not having insurance.”

Worst is coming, folks

And, say analysts, considering that the average tax refund is around $3,000, the penalty next year could take a huge bite out of it. CBS News continued:

In Obamacare’s first year, some Americans may have opted to pay the penalty rather than get insurance because it may have cost more to take out health coverage, Adams added. But with the penalty rising next year, it may spur more consumers to consider getting a plan, as well as create more grumbling.

There are some loopholes, however. People can claim a financial hardship or forego enrolling in health insurance for less than three months, Healthcare.gov notes. Also, Native Americans are exempt from paying any penalties/fines/taxes if they belong to a federally recognized tribe (now, if only Sen. Elizabeth Warren really was a Native American…).

How’s that “hope and change” working out, America?



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Natural News is a science-based natural health advocacy organization led by activist-turned-scientist Mike Adams, the Health Ranger.

The key mission of Natural News is to empower consumers with factual information about the synthetic chemicals, heavy metals, hormone disruptors and other chemicals found in foods, medicines, personal care products, children's toys and other items.

Natural News covers holistic health, nutritional therapies, consciousness and spirituality, permaculture , organics, animal rights, environmental health, food and superfoods , and performance nutrition.

The site strongly criticizes drugs-and-surgery medicine, vaccines, corporate corruption, animal testing, the use of humans for medical experiments, the chemical contamination of foods, heavy metals in consumer products, factory farming and government corruption.

Natural News also warns its readers about science gone bad and frequently cites examples of science resulting in catastrophies that it calls "crimes" against humanity. Examples of such subjects cited by Natural News include:







www.naturalnews.com

http://www.silverbearcafe.com/private/02.16/incentives.html
 

Ensoniq

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The best strategy is to have health insurance but if you can't get an exemption

If not, then at least make sure you don't get a tax refund. They can confiscate your refund but can't make you pay as if it was a fine.
 

gringott

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the average tax refund is around $3,000

What? I don't care what I make, I either own a grand or got back much less than that. Are people stupid enough to use the withholding as a savings plan?
 

the_shootist

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It's a tax.....not a fine....a tax...get it? ...a TAX...the SCOTUS said I can call it a tax....and a very small one at that...stop calling it a fine
140211140014-sot-obama-aca-employer-mandate-adjustment-00002513-horizontal-gallery.jpg
 
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Usury

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What? I don't care what I make, I either own a grand or got back much less than that. Are people stupid enough to use the withholding as a savings plan?

These days it seems everyone gets a "refundable tax credit" of some sort. It basically amounts to welfare. I regularly see returns of families with young children. If they earn less than $30k, they're probably getting back all their withholding plus another $5-$10k "credits". Happens ALL THE TIME.

Now you know why we have an entitlement problem.
 

CrimsonGuardJay

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As a self-employed broker, I've never received a refund. As far as "they can't bill you for the fine," I assure you, people get assessment letters from the IRS to pay the shared responsibility payment every day, trust me, they impose penalties.

Sad thing is, people still just haven't figured out how easy it is to exempt yourself from the obamacare penalty: let one utility bill go into collections, order the utility company to send you a notice of shut-off, then pay the bill and keep the shut-off notice in the safe.

There. Saved you 3% of your gross income.
 

solarion

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PPACA is not Constitutional and I don't care what the un-elected supreme geriatrics have to say on the matter. I can read the Constitution all by myself and the Interstate commerce clause does NOT grant CONgress creatures the authority to force me to engage in commerce on the pretense of supporting the "general welfare". KMA scumbag lawyers...I will not comply. That it's a huge steaming pile of turd for We the People that has been the subject of massive fraud and deceptions is a peripheral issue. It is simply not legal according to the Constitution.
 

Joe King

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As a self-employed broker, I've never received a refund. As far as "they can't bill you for the fine," I assure you, people get assessment letters from the IRS to pay the shared responsibility payment every day, trust me, they impose penalties.
No one said they can't send a letter asking for it. What they can't do is use power of lien/levy/seizure/garnishment in order to collect it.

However, the way out you propose is probably a better way to go for most persons.
Sad thing is, people still just haven't figured out how easy it is to exempt yourself from the obamacare penalty: let one utility bill go into collections, order the utility company to send you a notice of shut-off, then pay the bill and keep the shut-off notice in the safe.

There. Saved you 3% of your gross income.
 

Rusty Shackelford

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I am happy to comply with getting insurance on my own. Don't need .gov to tell me to buy it. Went 25 years and never had a huge bill to face out side of a annual physical. In the last 2 years have had 4 surgeries with more to come in the future. About $20K per surgery. I have not paid enough in premiums over my life to cover my expenses and have more stuff on the horizon. Everyone is healthy and doesn't need to protect their ass from huge bills until the time you are not healthy. It will happen to the vast majority of people and is a gamble you will lose. Unless you are a 7 figure a year income type of person, it is really naive to put yourself at risk of huge medical debt. I know most will say that teh bills should not be what they are and I agree, but they are that high and thats the game we have to play. Best to have the equipment to play ball under the current rules.

None of the pre mentioned ACA rules and fines were hidden. They were always there. People just did not pay attention.
 

Thecrensh

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I have been blessed to be covered by Tricare since retiring from the military. What a boondoggle the ACA is turning out to be...as engineered and predicted.
 

solarion

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I am happy to comply with getting insurance on my own. Don't need .gov to tell me to buy it.
Went 25 years and never had a huge bill to face out side of a annual physical.
In the last 2 years have had 4 surgeries with more to come in the future.About $20K per surgery.

...and there it is. THAT'S precisely why gumbymint is mandating it. Young people aren't doing their "fair share" to pay for old people's health insurance...fortunately .gov has stepped in on their behalf and will rob them for the mature folk. Further MEN aren't doing enough to pay for WOMEN'S health insurance...but again gumbymint has their back.
 

CrimsonGuardJay

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...and there it is. THAT'S precisely why gumbymint is mandating it. Young people aren't doing their "fair share" to pay for old people's health insurance...fortunately .gov has stepped in on their behalf and will rob them for the mature folk. Further MEN aren't doing enough to pay for WOMEN'S health insurance...but again gumbymint has their back.

That is correct. Statistically, there is a very very low probability you will need high-level medical care in your 20s, 30s, or even 40s. Once you hit the 50s, it begins to augur against you. Self -insuring until then is an "ok" strategy, but I must say I know many, many men in the 30s who have suffered a critical illness or accident, and have the burden of hospital bills, etc.

At the same time folks, health insurance is guaranteed issue. And even though open enrollment is only November, December and January, just as I know how to avoid the obamacare penalty, I know how to create an artificial qualifying event in order to buy during the year for most people.
 

southfork

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...and there it is. THAT'S precisely why gumbymint is mandating it. Young people aren't doing their "fair share" to pay for old people's health insurance...fortunately .gov has stepped in on their behalf and will rob them for the mature folk. Further MEN aren't doing enough to pay for WOMEN'S health insurance...but again gumbymint has their back.


Kind of like property taxes for school systems, all the apartment dwellers that have 2/4 kids don't pay their fair share of school taxes do they? If you figure a single homeowner pays well north of 1500 in school taxes and you have an apartment complex with 100 tenants with 2/4 kids the average is probably 10/15% of what a homeowner pays vs taxes paid by the complex owner.
 

gringott

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Government as Father for the singles moms, old people who didn't plan, etc. Father's job is head gangster making the collections.
He's a bag man.
 

Rusty Shackelford

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I am 41. Can't say I am old. I got smacked with 4 big bills and looking at 2-3 more in the next the next year all for something that happened internally beyond my control. One of those "it just happens" type chronic issues. It is easy to scream rape and theft in a time when it don't apply to you, but as Jay said, your time eventaully catches up with you and trust me, when it happens you can't self insure enough.

Ending guaranteed medical care would change the minds of most on the importance of getting Health Insurance.
 

solarion

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Here's the thing though...this is an emotional issue and as such people often use emotion to justify their position rather than logic or reason. Is having comprehensive health insurance a good idea? Sure. Is it a necessity? Nope. For a 20, 30, or 40 something struggling to make ends meet it likely shouldn't even be a very high priority. Of course a catastrophic illness or accident could happen...that's how life works, but it's not likely to happen and shouldn't be eating large chunks of your earnings better deployed elsewhere. Perhaps if we had a just monetary system and the price of "money" was set by free markets and not un-elected parasites people could save and pay for their own health CARE and possibly have a catastrophic only policy or an FHSA in case of emergency, but of course that wouldn't be a great opportunity for mommy & daddy gumbymint to have an excuse to reach into Peter's pocket to pay Paul while taking a steep cut would it?

It's not Constitutional and almost nobody argues otherwise. The supremes' ridiculous majority opinion on how it was supposedly Constitutional was about as credible as a 10 panel comic strip history of Omerica. At the end of the day Obozocare is just more tyrannical legitimized theft enforced at the business end of a gun. Young people cannot afford the "Affordable Care Act" and we shouldn't be teaching them that their rights don't matter and they should just submit to illegal "laws" merely because our criminal government wants to rob them of what little they have.
 

Rusty Shackelford

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Young people are told they can't afford insurance. I was told I couldn't. But I decided to DMODD and found that insurance costs for me, my wife and 2 kids was no where near the urban legend horror stories people are told. That was when I decided that most people weighing in on the insurance issue really have no idea what tgey are even talking about.

Lots of bad advice on the streets passed of as fact.
 

solarion

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Lots of bad advice on the streets passed of as fact.

...lots of bad policy(and tyranny) passed off as "law". Theft is wrong and we don't have the right to steal from our own children and our neighbors' children even if our elected "representatives" say "it's the law". We do this same crap to kids in skools. We tell them violence is wrong and you should never initiate force, and then we tell them to submit to gumbymint "authority"(violence) at every turn. WTF are we doing to our own kids? "Here kids sally forth into this failing economy with only the smoking remnants of a manufacturing sector left standing and MAKE YOUR MARK!" "Oh BTW the baby boomers are fooked, so I'm afraid we'll have to serially ROB you to pay for that too." "Oh yeah and the official federal national credit card is $19 Trillion...please pay that too. Good luck...love ya!"
 

CrimsonGuardJay

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Young people are told they can't afford insurance. I was told I couldn't. But I decided to DMODD and found that insurance costs for me, my wife and 2 kids was no where near the urban legend horror stories people are told. That was when I decided that most people weighing in on the insurance issue really have no idea what tgey are even talking about.

Lots of bad advice on the streets passed of as fact.

Family of 4, I'd wager on paper you make under 95,000 a year and qualify for a good subsidy. That's how it works. Make over 100k and that's not the case.
 

Joe King

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Best to have the equipment to play ball under the current rules.
The problem is being "forced" to play ball in a rigged game. Un-rig the ball game and people might actually want to play without being forced into it.

None of the pre mentioned ACA rules and fines were hidden. They were always there. People just did not pay attention.
What people did was believe the idiots they pay to run things. Everyone who pointed out any of the facts ahead of time was told to STFU and that they supposedly didn't know what they were talking about. People in gov said anything necessary to get it done. Same as was done with the Iraq war. No amount of truth would have been able to stop it.


A big part of the reason we have a screwed up health care system when it comes to billing is because of crap like this.

A New Jersey man says Bayonne Medial Center nicked him and his insurance company for more than $17,000 — to stitch up a 2-inch cut to his finger,according to an NBC 4 New report.

Ryan Edgerton went to hospital's emergency room last summer to get “five or six stitches” after he cut his index finger while slicing melon, according to NBC.
The outrageous bill — at $2,833 a stitch — stems from a battle between Edgerton’s insurer, United Healthcare, and CarePoint Health, which owns the hospital.

"There’s no reason a 2-inch cut should have a five-figure bill," Edgerton said.
(it shouldn't even be a 4 figure bill)

CarePoint contended United Healthcare has failed to offer a fair deal for in-network pricing, telling NBC that higher out-of-network charges are a “survival strategy” for struggling hospitals.

That's total BS. The ONLY reason they charged that much is simply because they can.

New Jersey law allows out-of-network hospitals and doctors to charge insurance companies virtually any price for their procedures.

....and then the insurance industry cries about having to raise rates due to high cost of medical care. If they had charged a reasonable rate in the first place, he could've just paid it without insurance being involved at all.

We need a health care industry that tries its best to issue as low of a bill as possible at the time services are rendered as opposed to the way it works now where they try to pad the bill as much as possible and then say, "see? this is why everyone needs insurance"

Can you say "price gouging", Rusty?

But the answer given to those who can see the BS and don't want to have anything to do with it is to just suck it up and go along with it instead of insisting it be fixed right.
Ie: the old, go along to get along crapola that's been leading us down the primrose path for several generations now.

Besides, American Idol is on tonight. We ain't got time to insist our gov does the right thing.
 

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The best part is they deceived everyone, especially the young and stupid.

Case in point: people when informed they would no longer be able to keep their older health plans, would argue "oh well, those were shitty plans that didn't cover maternity etc"

Now we all pay for it, jackasses. People can be misled by anyone.
 

southfork

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Not to wish people ill, but I hope those who voted for the muslim pos suffer the most from his policies.
 

Rusty Shackelford

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Family of 4, I'd wager on paper you make under 95,000 a year and qualify for a good subsidy. That's how it works. Make over 100k and that's not the case.

This is what pisses me off about the whole thing. We make well over $100k and don't qualify. Cost is astronomically high with ACA in place now. Prior to ACA, my family made $60k. I was able to buy a $4000 co-Mingled deductible with no co-insurance after deductible for my family of 4 for $295/month. Sure it was an underwritten policy, but I never had a problem making a claim or premium payment. This was the cheap stuff that was available that people thought was too expensive before Barry Care.
 

CrimsonGuardJay

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This is what pisses me off about the whole thing. We make well over $100k and don't qualify. Cost is astronomically high with ACA in place now. Prior to ACA, my family made $60k. I was able to buy a $4000 co-Mingled deductible with no co-insurance after deductible for my family of 4 for $295/month. Sure it was an underwritten policy, but I never had a problem making a claim or premium payment. This was the cheap stuff that was available that people thought was too expensive before Barry Care.
I thought you said you did yodd and found something cheap?

I didn't want to argue, but I know for a fact unless you qualify for a subsidy, it's a lost cause and so much more expensive than it used to be.

I sell this poison.
 

Joe King

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I sell this poison.
If you consider it poison, isn't there anything else you could sell or do besides that?
I'd feel pretty crappy if I thought I was selling poison disguised as candy to people too ignorant to tell the difference.

The sad thing in all this is that we're supposed to look out for people like that. Not prey upon them and take profit from their ignorance, like the current system is set up to do.
....and that's because we're all ignorant about some things some of the time, and if it's ok to take advantage of it, it's like saying we ourselves want to be taken advantage of whenever we find ourselves in the position of not understand something right away.


Edited to add: On the subject of helping the ignorant, in an earlier post you mentioned the following.
I know how to create an artificial qualifying event in order to buy during the year for most people.
Care to help clear up my ignorance and possibly others too by elaborating on this, please?
 
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Rusty Shackelford

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Joe King,

The example you gave was a little murky. Sounds like he went out if network, not sure though. Just cuz he thinks he should get in net work pricing at out net work facilities is ludicrous. You want in net work pricing? Stay in net work. It ain't hard.
 

nickndfl

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Family of 4, I'd wager on paper you make under 95,000 a year and qualify for a good subsidy. That's how it works. Make over 100k and that's not the case.

If you are white and make over $50k annually you are going to pay at least $450 month for insurance with huge deductibles making it virtually worthless in all but catastrophic events.
 

CrimsonGuardJay

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If you consider it poison, isn't there anything else you could sell or do besides that?
I'd feel pretty crappy if I thought I was selling poison disguised as candy to people too ignorant to tell the difference.

The sad thing in all this is that we're supposed to look out for people like that. Not prey upon them and take profit from their ignorance, like the current system is set up to do.
....and that's because we're all ignorant about some things some of the time, and if it's ok to take advantage of it, it's like saying we ourselves want to be taken advantage of whenever we find ourselves in the position of not understand something right away.

False: I do a professional service for people. And I've become nearly independently wealthy because of my skills and abilities.

I assess each customers needs and eligibility for subsidies. In the event they do not qualify for one, I continue on a non-exchange type plan.

The reality is, my friend: I've been a front-line fighter in this shit-show for the past 12 years, and if I didn't help these people, they either would be completely ignorant of how to get it, or some pathetic social climber 10 years older than me that blundered into the job last month would.

I would much prefer it was me.
 

CrimsonGuardJay

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If you are white and make over $50k annually you are going to pay at least $450 month for insurance with huge deductibles making it virtually worthless in all but catastrophic events.

You describe a white male over 45 years old.
 

Rusty Shackelford

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I thought you said you did yodd and found something cheap?

I didn't want to argue, but I know for a fact unless you qualify for a subsidy, it's a lost cause and so much more expensive than it used to be.

I sell this poison.

Yes much more expensive now. My example was pre Obama care, sorry for not being clear.

My point was back in 2006 through 2012 everyone told me how expensive private health insurance was and it was unaffordable. Everyone was told that and was a large reason so many were uninsured. I did not take the advice as gospel and actually sought out insurance. It was much cheaper then what everyone was telling me. If everyone that was told how expensive it was actually priced it out back then, it is likely the uninsured rates would have dropped and barrycare would have never seen light of day.

Like I said my premium was $295. Company got out of health insurance since ACA. But a similar policy now on market place is north of $1200 a month.

Not a fan of ACA. But am a proponent of insuring and protecting yourself in today's game.
 

solarion

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If everyone that was told how expensive it was actually priced it out back then, it is likely the uninsured rates would have dropped and barrycare would have never seen light of day.

You're kidding right? You really believe barrycare was about insuring the uninsured via illegal "color of law" mandate? ...and then of course once mandated the price rises dramatically. This is a corporate welfare scam, a whopping tax increase, and a wealth transfer mechanism. Gumbymint doesn't give a rats backside if you have insurance or access to health care...if they did they'd get out of the market entirely.
 

Joe King

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False: I do a professional service for people. And I've become nearly independently wealthy because of my skills and abilities.
I'm not blaming you personally for the problem, just was questioning how you'd be ok with selling what you yourself referred to as poison.


I assess each customers needs and eligibility for subsidies. In the event they do not qualify for one, I continue on a non-exchange type plan.

The reality is, my friend: I've been a front-line fighter in this shit-show for the past 12 years, and if I didn't help these people, they either would be completely ignorant of how to get it, or some pathetic social climber 10 years older than me that blundered into the job last month would.

I would much prefer it was me.
I guess I'm just looking at it from the point of not wanting to help people get into a bad situation at all. Seems kinda like helping people figure out what level of Dante's inferno they want to go to. I'd be more inclined to help people learn how not to take poison.
...and more importantly, how to recognize poison.
 

Joe King

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Joe King,

The example you gave was a little murky. Sounds like he went out if network, not sure though. Just cuz he thinks he should get in net work pricing at out net work facilities is ludicrous. You want in net work pricing? Stay in net work. It ain't hard.
See? That whole premise is BS. The way it works now is that you get financially raped if they can see any possible way of doing so.

There needs to be one price for all routine services that anyone who needs any particular service gets charged, no matter what their personal circumstances may be.


Think of it in the manner of how a bar of soap is priced at the store. If you me and Bill Gates go shopping and we all three buy a bar of soap, they don't charge us three different prices based upon our individual finances. No, they re-coup their cost plus a modest markup in order to cover their costs and make a reasonable profit.

If stores had no incentive to keep prices as low as possible due to competition and a third party was billed instead of the actual customer and gov mandated that you buy it, a bar of soap would end up costing $100.
...and then we'd need soap subsidies and income verification just to be able to buy a bar of soap.

The reason it would cost $100 is because a huge industry would rise up to manage soap and its costs and that system would have people at every imaginable level along the way trying to make a good living off people just wanting to buy a bar of soap.
 

Rusty Shackelford

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The store ain't gonna give you soap for free if you can't pay for it. Hospitals have to treat you and provide a service even if you can't pay. That imo is a HUGE difference and problem.
 

Joe King

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The way to fix health care costs is to make the patient directly responsible for payment. No third party billing allowed.
...and then have the patient deal with their own insurance company for reimbursement.

In fact, all insurance should work this way. That way the person actually getting a product or service has a vested interest in making sure he gets charged a reasonable price to begin with and it would put the insurance companies in the position of having to deal directly with their customers for payment.
 

Joe King

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The store ain't gonna give you soap for free if you can't pay for it. Hospitals have to treat you and provide a service even if you can't pay. That imo is a HUGE difference and problem.
They do not have to provide the same treatment, just stabilize.
...and besides, unpaid medical costs prior to Ocare was barely $40billion a year. That comes out to about $125 per person per year. In no way shape or form does that justify raising rates and deductibles the way they have increased them to supposedly cover the cost of unpaid medical bills.

Can we not find a way to do this that doesn't involve financial rape for the poor schmuck who just needs to be able to see his doctor from time to time?
 

Joe King

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Uglytruth

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What is happening to the 27 year olds that were covered as kids to 26 years old? Sticker shock?
 

GOLD DUCK

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What is happening to the 27 year olds that were covered as kids to 26 years old? Sticker shock?

QWAK,Uglytruth,Obama care means at least they will use LUBE!:thumbs up 2:

the DUCK :winks2: