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nowon brought this re silver

nowon

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#41
Read a while ago a hedge fund guy saying that if you want a friend on Wall Street, get a dog.....

If the short squeeze on GameStop caused fireworks among a few hedge funds on Wall Street, we hate to think what a short squeeze on the global silver supply will look like as hedge funds wake up to the possibility that SLV "cannot acquire sufficient silver acceptable for delivery to the Trust".
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/silversqueeze-hits-london-slv-warns-limited-available-silver
 

Brio

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#43
The Silver Shorts’ Last Stand?
January 23, 2021

Over the past year and a half, the biggest damage to the 8 big shorts has come from gold, but more recently silver has begun to add to the loss mix. At current prices, silver accounts for as much as $3 billion of their total losses. Every $8 move higher in silver will cause that loss to increase by a further $3 billion. A move to $50 silver, commonly bandied about, would bring the 8 big shorts an additional $10 billion in losses from silver alone. What happens if the 8 big shorts move to cover and buy back their silver short positions in order to avoid catastrophic losses? Any such attempted short covering would cause the most drastic price move in history. This is the explanation for why the big shorts haven’t rushed to cover. I believe they finally grasp the extent of the bind they are in.

https://silverseek.com/article/silver-shorts-last-stand

I think it'll be really interesting what happens when futures open.
 

Zed

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#44
Certainly, watching PSLV inventory going up an average of .5m ounces a day is inspirational...now pushing 106m ounces.
At least you know that's sucking up industrial bars and really this thing blows open when industry losses faith in supply. They will be price insensitive if supply is threatened.
 

ZZZZZ

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#45
Guy from Goldman Sachs says SLV also shorts the silver price... schmucks who buy SLV wanting to go long get screwed by the same fund shorting the price. If that's not criminal then wtf

[] https://www.reddit.com/r/Wallstreetsilver/comments/ljxtzw
What possible objective could SLV possibly have for going short the investment that they are alleged to hold.

The only (absurdly) plausible explanation would be that they hold too much physical. :rotf::rotf::rotf:
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Zed

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#46
Guy from Goldman Sachs says SLV also shorts the silver price... schmucks who buy SLV wanting to go long get screwed by the same fund shorting the price. If that's not criminal then wtf

[] https://www.reddit.com/r/Wallstreetsilver/comments/ljxtzw
He's says that they short the metal that they buy, so it's a hedge, a wash, neutral. The question is why is this being done? It might be to prevent a positive price feedback loop so that price doesn't run too far ahead of the funds ability to keep up. I don't really understand why, and it is the first time I have heard that they actively short their own inventory.
 

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#47
What possible objective could SLV possibly have for going short the investment that they are alleged to hold.
They don't own (hold) it, the "authorized participants" own (hold) the silver. SLV's only responsibly is to balance share supply and demand such that the price stays in line with silver. For some reason (I don't get why yet) they are putting in place what looks like a hedge.
 

ZZZZZ

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#48
They don't own (hold) it, the "authorized participants" own (hold) the silver. SLV's only responsibly is to balance share supply and demand such that the price stays in line with silver. For some reason (I don't get why yet) they are putting in place what looks like a hedge.
I'm not following.

SLV owns the physical. The "authorized" participants can make a claim and redeem shares for the physical, but they don't own it until they claim it and withdraw it.
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ZZZZZ

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#49
He's says that they short the metal that they buy, so it's a hedge, a wash, neutral. The question is why is this being done? It might be to prevent a positive price feedback loop so that price doesn't run too far ahead of the funds ability to keep up. I don't really understand why, and it is the first time I have heard that they actively short their own inventory.
This is the first time that it has been disclosed publicly.

it makes zero sense for them to ever be short their own inventory. That is called market manipulation.
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Joe King

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#50
What possible objective could SLV possibly have for going short the investment that they are alleged to hold.
Making more money from their customer base?
 

ZZZZZ

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#51

solarion

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#53
it makes zero sense for them to ever be short their own inventory.
It makes perfect sense. JP Morgan is engaged in a zero delta enterprise. They make money by collaring silver within a range. Then they short into the crimex and make a bundle on contracts that expire worthless.

...and yeah it's manipulation. ...and fraud.
 

ZZZZZ

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#54
It makes perfect sense. JP Morgan is engaged in a zero delta enterprise. They make money by collaring silver within a range. Then they short into the crimex and make a bundle on contracts that expire worthless.

...and yeah it's manipulation. ...and fraud.
Agreed, it makes perfect sense, if you are a corrupt, incorrigible criminal enterprise,.

They've already been fined $930 million.

Time to lock 'em up, or at least revoke their banking license. (No, not holding my breath.)
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Buck

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#55
It makes perfect sense. JP Morgan is engaged in a zero delta enterprise. They make money by collaring silver within a range. Then they short into the crimex and make a bundle on contracts that expire worthless.

...and yeah it's manipulation. ...and fraud.
those are crimes, if we had crimes here, people would be in jail,

snark...


but to anyone who's going to 'make a fortune' in the markets, now is as good a time as any...
 

Zed

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#56
I'm not following. SLV owns the physical. The "authorized" participants can make a claim and redeem shares for the physical, but they don't own it until they claim it and withdraw it.
I think that the silver is viewed as an asset of the share holder and not iShares. That is to say iShares could blow up and they can't touch the silver because it isn't theirs.

When an 'authorized participant' places a basket of silver into the fund those newly created shares then need to be sold to satisfy demand and keep the SLV price lined up with silver. At that point the 'authorized participant' has essentially sold the silver.

So who is going short, SLV or the 'authorized participant' and how is the 'authorized participant' rewarded for adding silver to the fund... why would they? Is this simply selling silver into a strong price (adding baskets) and buying it back on a weak price (redeeming baskets)? Is that just a trade for them?

I dunno... I never really pondered the motivations?
 

Zed

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#57
OK.... I think I get it.

When silver is added to SLV the whole fund is essential long that new silver. Say it is added @ $20 and by the time the new shares are sold the price has fallen $2, SLV is on the hook for the $2. So when the metal is added and SLV owns the new share float it would short the silver UNTIL it has sold the new shares off thus hedging the risk for the time that SLV owns the newly issued shares.

So they'd be shorting baskets as they are added until that new float of stock is taken up.

Make any sense?
 
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Zed

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#58
it makes zero sense for them to ever be short their own inventory. That is called market manipulation.
Yeah, it does... they are just the fund mangers they don't want price exposure either way. When they add a bunch of new shares they have price exposure until those shares are sold into the market. They would have to hedge to keep the fund solvent.

Logically it is a short term position and really it should never big a noticeable thing. The only problem arises when you get a big influx of metal into SLV. Then they need to put a big hedge into place if only for a short time. When it is gradual it should not disrupt the market but a big rush does cause a bit of an issue.
 
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nowon

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#59
Just my opinion, but you're trying to justify the legality of actions against the good of the SLV trust owners, who are the shareholders, by convicted criminal like JPM. It stinks
 

ZZZZZ

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#60
Yeah, it does... they are just the fund mangers they don't want price exposure either way. When they add a bunch of new shares they have price exposure until those shares are sold into the market. They would have to hedge to keep the fund solvent.

Logically it is a short term position and really it should never big a noticeable thing. The only problem arises when you get a big influx of metal into SLV. Then they need to put a big hedge into place if only for a short time. When it is gradual it should not disrupt the market but a big rush does cause a bit of an issue.
The fund manager doesn't actually own any shares of the fund. That would be a conflict of interests.

The price of the fund "should be " be irrelevant to the fund manager. If anything, they want the highest possible price, since their compensation is based on a percentage of the assets.
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Zed

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#62
The fund manager doesn't actually own any shares of the fund. That would be a conflict of interests.
I'm not sure that is always true, it depends on how a new baskets is added to the SLV float. Price exposure is the only reason they would have to hedge by short selling so there must be price exposure. If there is no legitimate reason to sell short it would be a massive regulatory risk, enough to kill SLV if they where taken to task. The only logical explanation is price risk which infers that they are exposed to the new float until it is sold on. If they are fully hedged then there is no conflict of interest as any new shares are sold @ market without hurting the fund.

There is simply no other reason to sell short... unless you want to believe that they are openly playing their investor base. I dunno how many rules that would break but it should be quite a few!
 

WillA2

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#63
If you cannot hold it, you don't own it.
 

TAEZZAR

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#64

GOLDBRIX

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#65
I also find the gold market's response to the silver squeeze rather...unnatural. It just sits there and refuses to participate when I know from communicating with retailers that demand for physical is quite strong. It's only a matter of time...

View attachment 201797

I believe we're seeing all the suppression kung-fu tricks the banksters can muster being employed to contain PM markets...time will tell if it's going to be enough.
Well, that is simple to define. Wall Street is betting their book. Main Street sees what is happening in the market.
 

GOLDBRIX

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#66
he extra 20gw capacity is equal to all the PV installed in Europe in 2019. From a single factory.
OK what is "PV" ?
 

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#67

solarion

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#68
Looks like another ETP/V/F is getting in on the prospectus alteration action.

1613406677923.png


https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1450922/000138713121001680/sivr-424b3_020221.htm

1613406866760.png


ZOMG!!! People are buying silver ETPs to increase the price of silver!?! What complete madness!!!

100% these paper silver products exist to control the price of silver. They're long physical and short paper in quantities necessary to collar the "price of silver" within a range that they've maintained just above the cost of production for DECADES with these paper scams! Think of the billions lost by mining companies, & their miners. These banksters are soulless vampires!
 

ZZZZZ

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#69
So it's not a problem when 8 gargantuan hedge funds/Banksters collude to be short 300 million paper ounces every day of the week, but when a few thousand little guys collude to buy 5 or 10 ounces of physical a piece, that creates a crisis?

Never mind.
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WillA2

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#70
I understand, I think, what's going down. But when I do my part, I try to buy local first to take possession. Small amounts here and there off the books. I just don't see how it's anyone elses business to know what I may or may not have.

Sometimes you find good stuff through Craigslist and the like. You just have to do your own due diligence to keep from being taken for a ride.
 

gnome

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#71
Guessing he means Photo Voltaics, but what do I know. Dude said he thought I had a major league weight problem...
Look at my avatar pic, I'm in no position to comment on anyone's weight.
Yes, PV is photovoltaics.
 

ZZZZZ

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#77
Dave Kranzler nails it.

The iShares Silver “Trust” Is Likely A Fraud $SLV
February 16, 2021Financial Markets, Gold, Market Manipulation, Precious MetalsBlackRock, iShares Silver Trust, silver, SLV

Those of us who read the original filings for both GLD and SLV were shocked that the Prospectus for each was certified by the SEC. The legal loopholes embedded in the legalese were wide enough to drive a fleet of Class-8 trucks through lined-up side-by-side. For just one example out of many, see this for instance: Can We Trust The Silver ETF.

It’s been suspected by many truth-seekers since the respective inception of GLD and SLV that each Trust was set-up as a mechanism to divert institutional cash flows into the respective Trusts that might otherwise flow in actual physical gold and silver.

As has been verified by recent actions taken by the SLV sponsor, BlackRock, these trusts are nothing more than gold and silver derivatives and thus are embedded with the same risks as investing in futures and options. In the end-game, most investors in GLD and SLV will end up losing most, if not all, of their “investment” in these fraud-riddled securities.

Through the meticulous sleuthing of BullionStar’s Ronan Manly, it was revealed that SLV stealthily slipped into the the SLV prospectus “cover your ass” language that acknowledged that the shares were not fully-backed by silver bars:

“The demand for silver may temporarily exceed available supply that is acceptable for delivery to the Trust, which may adversely affect an investment in the Shares.

To the extent that demand for silver exceeds the available supply at that time, Authorized Participants may not be able to readily acquire sufficient amounts of silver necessary for the creation of a Basket.” (see page 7: SLV amended Prospectus as of February 5, 2021)

Notwithstanding all of the other issues with this disclosure in particular, and the entire set-up of the Trust generally, that particular disclosure – furtively slipped into the the Prospectus – reveals the extent to which SLV is not in any way an investment in silver or an investment in a security that indexes the price movement of silver. Rather, SLV is a rat’s nest of fraud and deception – a covert tool used in the Central Banking and bullion banking effort to control the price of silver (just like GLD).

That disclosure alone reveals the extent to which an effort is being made by the big banks – backed by the Central Banks – to prevent bona fide price discovery in the precious metals market.

The sponsor of SLV is, at best, disingenuous in its effort to manage SLV properly. If Black Rock were to issue an offer-wanted-in-comp for the amount of silver bars that it needs to back the new shares created, at a high enough price it would be able to purchase enough silver. This is how price discovery is supposed to work. SLV’s failure to embark on this price discovery exercise therefore reveals that the Trust is a total fraud.

When I traded junk bonds and we needed to find where offers in scarce bonds would come out, we would either start bidding up the price in “the Street” until offers appeared or we would issue an “offer-in-comp wanted” to accounts that held that bonds in order to draw out offers. At the very least we would be able to “discover” the real offer price for the bonds we needed.

Eventually the price containment of gold and silver will fail under its own weight. The Law of Supply and Demand dictates that imbalances in supply and demand can be fixed by price. In this case the price of silver needs to rise to a level that balances out the supply and demand for SLV shares – if SLV is truly a physical silver Trust. As such, SLV technically should be soliciting large offers-in-comp. That disclosure above – under no uncertain terms – reveals for all to see that the market price of silver is too low – that demand exceeds supply by a considerable amount.

The solution to this economic problem is for the sponsor of SLV to bid up the price of physical silver to a level that solicits enough offers to fulfill the obligation of the Trust to back the share baskets with the appropriate amount of silver bars. Anything short of this reveals SLV to be a fraud. After all, “sophisticated” investors in SLV have been led to believe that SLV is a de facto investment in silver. And now we know that SLV is an “investment” in paper securities fractionally backed by silver bars. In technical parlance, SLV is a derivative, and a fraudulent one at that.

https://investmentresearchdynamics.com/the-ishares-silver-trust-is-likely-a-fraud-slv/
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