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Other tangible investments...

<SLV>

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#1
Besides gold, what else has a track record of persistent demonstrable value? Things that can be owned and possessed?

I come up with:

1. Good agricultural land. This can be leased out to make a little side cash while the land itself continues to appreciate. I bought my land in 2008 for $2,000/acre. Nowadays it is going for upwards of $5,000/acre around here! There is also the cost of owning the land (property taxes) to consider. Ag land is better than houses because land requires no maintenance (with occasional exceptions) or insurance.

2. Quality firearms. In particular, I've been thinking about stockpiling crates of AR-15 stripped lowers (Anderson). Not as liquid because the political climate might make it difficult (or impossible) to sell them in the future. Just because a previous ban grandfathered in existing firearms, doesn't mean a future one will. Also been thinking about quality handguns (S&W M&P Shield 9mm, Glock 19, etc.), but your money doesn't go as far with handguns as it would with stripped AR lowers. However, the handguns would be complete and "ready for service." To further complicate this, how many can you sell in a certain period of time without needing to be an FFL?

3. Big name Swiss watches. Rolex, Patek, Cartier, AL&S, Panerai... trickier here because you have to know what you are doing to either 1) buy the future classics or 2) buy vintage (even more risky). I think the current dark horse future classic is the Rolex Air King 116900 - about $6,500. And there is also the fondle factor -- you can wear your investment.

What other tangibles have a proven record of holding value or appreciating?
 

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<SLV>

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<SLV>

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#3
Looks like purchasing AR15 lowers is a more private process... at least here in the Midwest.
 

Usury

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#4
Livestock, lumber, rental homes...
 

davycoppitt

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#5
Might be a little late to the party, but if I were to stock guns that I wish to sell in the future I would look at quality military surplus rifles from around the world.
 

ttazzman

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#6
Looks like purchasing AR15 lowers is a more private process... at least here in the Midwest.
just discussing but it might be worth while to consider stockpiling 80% lowers

i consider name brand (colt,s&w,ruger,etc) steel and wood quality guns to be a good investment .....plastic guns certainly serve the ultimate purpose but rarely turn into a appreciating investment....(investment/protection) is dual purpose
 

Wellsburg

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#7
I agree with Tazz, 80% finished lowers. No registration, no serial numbers. Very easy to drill a couple holes to make them complete. The template only costs about $40.00 and there are several videos on YooToob how to do it.

Maybe add vodka and whiskey to your stock pile. Some guys will sell their soul for alcohol, great for trades in a pinch. We have cases of booze.

Also, lots of ammo, common calibers. Stock up on the sales. Add toilet paper and tampons too.
 

Thecrensh

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#8
Besides gold, what else has a track record of persistent demonstrable value? Things that can be owned and possessed?

I come up with:

1. Good agricultural land. This can be leased out to make a little side cash while the land itself continues to appreciate. I bought my land in 2008 for $2,000/acre. Nowadays it is going for upwards of $5,000/acre around here! There is also the cost of owning the land (property taxes) to consider. Ag land is better than houses because land requires no maintenance (with occasional exceptions) or insurance.

2. Quality firearms. In particular, I've been thinking about stockpiling crates of AR-15 stripped lowers (Anderson). Not as liquid because the political climate might make it difficult (or impossible) to sell them in the future. Just because a previous ban grandfathered in existing firearms, doesn't mean a future one will. Also been thinking about quality handguns (S&W M&P Shield 9mm, Glock 19, etc.), but your money doesn't go as far with handguns as it would with stripped AR lowers. However, the handguns would be complete and "ready for service." To further complicate this, how many can you sell in a certain period of time without needing to be an FFL?

3. Big name Swiss watches. Rolex, Patek, Cartier, AL&S, Panerai... trickier here because you have to know what you are doing to either 1) buy the future classics or 2) buy vintage (even more risky). I think the current dark horse future classic is the Rolex Air King 116900 - about $6,500. And there is also the fondle factor -- you can wear your investment.

What other tangibles have a proven record of holding value or appreciating?
You can bet your next paycheck that if the socialist-marxists gain power, they will initiate a gun grab that will make your head swim. That being said, would "quality firearms" be a really good asset in that atmosphere?
 

newmisty

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#9
Some people (one in particular, wonder how he's doing) prefer to stockpile bilge rag swill...
 

Silver

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#12
Green coffee beans - vacuumed sealed with oxygen absorbers and they stay good for many years. I roasted some beans recently that I bought 8 or 9 years ago, had them in mason jars with oxygen absorbers in a storage unit - blazing heat and freezing cold and they are still good. Coffee is one of the biggest commodities in the world and people will give up just about anything to get it. Home roasting is pretty easy, but there is definitely a learning curve to getting the roast right.

https://copantrade.com/
 

Mr Paradise

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#14
You can bet your next paycheck that if the socialist-marxists gain power, they will initiate a gun grab that will make your head swim. That being said, would "quality firearms" be a really good asset in that atmosphere?
No, nor would rental properties. Marxists have a history of coming down hard on peasants that exploit other peasants ....and good luck with keeping that farm land or vacant lakefront property.

I’m going with games & collectibles. Vintage silver age & older comics, certain vintage sports cards and some modern. Pokemon, Magic, Dungeons & Dragons, GI Joe, Hot Wheels, minty vintage board games, etc....

I’ve been playing the collectible game for years and have seen very nice appreciations on almost everything. All those nerds who played with a lot of this stuff all have six figure tech jobs now and are coming into their peak income range where they can afford to pay big bucks to repurchase the things they loved as kids.
 
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nickndfl

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#15
I agree with Tazz, 80% finished lowers. No registration, no serial numbers. Very easy to drill a couple holes to make them complete. The template only costs about $40.00 and there are several videos on YooToob how to do it.

Maybe add vodka and whiskey to your stock pile. Some guys will sell their soul for alcohol, great for trades in a pinch. We have cases of booze.

Also, lots of ammo, common calibers. Stock up on the sales. Add toilet paper and tampons too.
You cannot legally resell the finished lowers unless you are a registered gun manufacturer. You might find something more legal such as bags of pubic hair or vials of gypsy tears.
 

EO 11110

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#16
No, nor would rental properties. Marxists have a history of coming down hard on peasants that exploit other peasants ....and good luck with keeping that farm land or vacant lakefront property.

I’m going with games & collectibles. Vintage silver age & older comics, certain vintage sports cards and some modern. Pokemon, Magic, Dungeons & Dragons, GI Joe, Hot Wheels, minty vintage board games, etc....

I’ve been playing the collectible game for years and have seen very nice appreciations on almost everything. All those nerds who played with a lot of this stuff all have six figure tech jobs now and are coming into their peak income range where they can afford to pay big bucks to repurchase the things they loved as kids.
I like the pokeMAN idea :)

I have some old electronics that have done well
 

hammerhead

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#17
Green coffee beans - vacuumed sealed with oxygen absorbers and they stay good for many years. I roasted some beans recently that I bought 8 or 9 years ago, had them in mason jars with oxygen absorbers in a storage unit - blazing heat and freezing cold and they are still good. Coffee is one of the biggest commodities in the world and people will give up just about anything to get it. Home roasting is pretty easy, but there is definitely a learning curve to getting the roast right.

https://copantrade.com/
Nickless has that market cornered
 

ttazzman

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#18
You cannot legally resell the finished lowers unless you are a registered gun manufacturer. You might find something more legal such as bags of pubic hair or vials of gypsy tears.
your totally missing the whole concept of 80% lowers.........they are nothing but a piece of metal or polymer before finished.....and as such are subject to the same restrictions or taxes as any other piece of metal or polymer....they are shippable...no regulations...etc....i dont think they are going to start regulating or confiscating metal and polymer soon

they only become a "firearm" after the recipient uses the jig they come with to do the final drilling/machining to make them a viable AR lower.......if i were intrested in this concept i would sell the 80% lower as such...or ...sell the 80% lower and allow them for a additional fee to use my equipment and expertize to complete the lower themselves for their own use....or in my case i would just take them to my BIL who is a registered manufacturer and have him do the finish work and sell.

it is perfectly legal to make your own firearm for your own use without being a "manufacturer" ....its only when you try to sell it to someone else it requires serialization etc.

i can see a world where the libs try to ban/regulate/tax all AR15 style guns/lowers ...with a supply of 80% lowers that could survive a ban-etc i can see where the ability to rearm with untraceable firearms after such a ban would be EXTREMELY lucrative and desirable.....
 
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nickndfl

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#19
Right on, but you cannot finish it to resell as an investment. You can stack 80s all day, but I would not consider them investment grade. Milsup firearms was mentioned above. Whatever happened to good old silver and gold?
 

ttazzman

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#20
Whatever happened to good old silver and gold?
LOL....read the first line of the OPs post .....its the premis of the whole thread :)

i was responding directly to the OPs #2 item in the first post :)
 

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#21
It depends. What is your objective?
Value increase (profits)?
Value maintenance?
SHTF survival?
Price increase protection?
Getting filthy rich?
Different strokes for different pokes

BF
 

mtnman

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#22
Right on, but you cannot finish it to resell as an investment. You can stack 80s all day, but I would not consider them investment grade. Milsup firearms was mentioned above. Whatever happened to good old silver and gold?
If SHTF then laws are out the window.
 

<SLV>

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#25
It depends. What is your objective?
Value increase (profits)?
Value maintenance?
SHTF survival?
Price increase protection?
Getting filthy rich?
Different strokes for different pokes

BF
Strictly tangibles that beat inflation. Not SHTF.
 

hoarder

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#26
Ag land is better than houses because land requires no maintenance (with occasional exceptions) or insurance.
I'm not saying Ag land isn't a good investment. But it depends on why you buy insurance. I buy auto liability because our rulers mandate it. I buy Homeowners insurance to protect myself from lawyers. I do not enter into the insurance lottery to protect myself from fire, hail, tornadoes etc. It's a waste of money and insurance companies would go broke if it wasn't.
If your Ag land is uninsured, you are sticking your neck out that some fool might injure himself and lawyer the tar out of you.

I would stay away from collectibles that only baby boomers would buy. When they die off who will buy them?
 

mtnman

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#27
I've been told that a Mortuary is an inflation proof business... Quality Whisky will always be in demand.
 

hammerhead

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I'm not saying Ag land isn't a good investment. But it depends on why you buy insurance. I buy auto liability because our rulers mandate it. I buy Homeowners insurance to protect myself from lawyers. I do not enter into the insurance lottery to protect myself from fire, hail, tornadoes etc. It's a waste of money and insurance companies would go broke if it wasn't.
If your Ag land is uninsured, you are sticking your neck out that some fool might injure himself and lawyer the tar out of you.

I would stay away from collectibles that only baby boomers would buy. When they die off who will buy them?
There will not be a collectible Walmart or Ikea furniture piece. Along those lines when my son was looking to furnish his new digs, I told him he should shop at some of the antique stores in the area. Fine, quality wooden furniture and it's really inexpensive. He wanted no part of that and I went with him to an IKEA store where he purchased his bed, dressers, night stand and table. The all came in flat boxes that were very heavy. He had to disassemble one piece when he went to move it to a different location and was not able to reinstall all the pieces. I have 2 of my father's bedroom set. They have been with me for 30 plus years. I will part with them when I perish and hopefully some family member will want them.
 

arminius

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#30
Quality Whisky will always be in demand.
When the SHTF, any whisky will be in demand.

Other than that, beans, bullets and bandaids.

Land is fine, but key is available water. None of it is worth spit without mechanically drawn up water, or lake/stream on the property.
 
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<SLV>

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#31
Land is fine, but key is available water. None of it is worth spit without mechanically drawn up water, or lake/stream on the property.
Depends where you live. Here in Wisconsin we generally don't irrigate.
 

<SLV>

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#32
How about value density? That is one reason gold is better than silver. You can cram more gold into a small space.

SHTF stockpiling to sell it later is speculating, not investing. What I'm looking for are highly liquid tangible assets that are in constant demand. The type that meet or beat inflation.

It's hard to beat quality firearms as a store of value. Complete firearms are probably more liquid than stripped lowers because they are ready to go. Looks like a complete AR can built for about $500. 9mm pistols also should be exceptionally liquid. Glocks at the $500 level, and MP9 Shields at the $250 level. But then you have to worry about the feds tracking your buy/sell and running afoul of FFL regulations. The BATF always wins in court. Also, what if a crime is committed with a serial number that tracks back to you? Best to accumulate FTF with cash transactions.

80% lowers are fine, but the market is pretty small.
 

ttazzman

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#33
80% lowers are fine, but the market is pretty small.
the 80% market advantage is in its ease of transporting,secrecy,regulation,transfer costs, legal to own, etc...........as opposed to buying complete lowers in bulk that trigger law enforcement inquiry's, have individual transfer fees, future regulation risks, etc...

80% lowers in most cases cost the same or more than finished lowers.....its also interesting that there are also 80% Glock pistol kits

but the current market is certainly niche....not at all touting 80% kits just stating it is a interesting viable option

in my opinion 22lr or 12ga ammo/guns is about as universal as it gets ....22lr ammo is certainly fairly high density (ammo can be difficult to ship)

gold is certainly the most value dense, best liquidity, storage stable item a person could hold in a normal world (not shtf)

i do think you need to add a third criteria to your matrix..... "storage stability"
 

Silver

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#34
How about value density? That is one reason gold is better than silver. You can cram more gold into a small space.

SHTF stockpiling to sell it later is speculating, not investing. What I'm looking for are highly liquid tangible assets that are in constant demand. The type that meet or beat inflation.

It's hard to beat quality firearms as a store of value. Complete firearms are probably more liquid than stripped lowers because they are ready to go. Looks like a complete AR can built for about $500. 9mm pistols also should be exceptionally liquid. Glocks at the $500 level, and MP9 Shields at the $250 level. But then you have to worry about the feds tracking your buy/sell and running afoul of FFL regulations. The BATF always wins in court. Also, what if a crime is committed with a serial number that tracks back to you? Best to accumulate FTF with cash transactions.

80% lowers are fine, but the market is pretty small.
Most wealthy people invest in Tax-free municipal bonds (school bonds) and corporate bonds - they beat inflation and quality bonds have increased in value over the past decades. So, if you're not expecting SHTF, and you have money to invest, what good do tangibles do?
 

FunnyMoney

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#35
Trying to keep up with Inflation?
That depends on YOUR inflration rate.

A very rich person buying cars and paintings for thier home is going to experience a different level of inflation than the average American.

Average people, over the long haul, see a much higher inflation rate due to their expenses mostly in food, medicine/medical, housing, transportation and utilities (see shadowstats.com for true inflation rates for these people).

So if you are the average worker of the world, you will find it quite difficult to both diversify and keep up with inflation. Real Estate can do the trick but that really depends on a number of factors beyond just carrying costs and exit/ entry points. Taxes are a concern and in a SHTF situation, who knows high how the taxes could go when it comes time for you to sell.

When you go through the list of non-business related tangible assets, over the very long run (several decades), there's really not much that works out so well unless you're able to pick entry and exit inflexion points. The typically mentioned things have already been mentioned above.

But RE can also become a business; a business is not typically considered a "liquid tangible asset with inflation hedging characteristics" but it is probably the best of all worlds when it comes to that kind of future protection - unless again, the dreaded SHTF scenario arrives.

On this thread, you said "other," so I figure you mean things other than PMs. But all those other things come with disclaimers and difficulties which one may find a problem (or not) under many possible future scenarios which PMs have a history of overcoming.

For opinions about the future, my thinking is Gold for SHTF situations and Silver for the largest range of possible future scenarios (good and bad).

Over the next few years and decades, as long as a really dire SHTF situation doesn't arrive, I expect silver to outperform the majority of assets with gold not too far behind.
Those things are very portable and have a giant marketplace both above board and below. No other monetary or investment grade asset has the same number of extensive inflation hedge, portability, market liquidity and entry/exit advantages.

.
 

hoarder

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#36
if you're not expecting SHTF, and you have money to invest, what good do tangibles do?
We're living in the age of rampant corruption and manipulation in the US. I prefer to invest in assets that are most difficult for TPTB to manipulate and that's tangible assets. Any paper can go to zero.
 

Thecrensh

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#37
We're living in the age of rampant corruption and manipulation in the US. I prefer to invest in assets that are most difficult for TPTB to manipulate and that's tangible assets. Any paper can go to zero.
While we're on that, TPTB can also make PMs illegal to privately own, or convert everything to electronic currency (most likely). The wanna-be Marxists posing as "Democratic Socialists" in the US have a relatively large base of support with Millenials - IF they gain power, they'll try to outlaw anything resembling "wealth" until everything is in their control. That's a TSHTF scenario that few of us can prepare for.
 

gnome

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#38
Nut trees, cheap to get started and yield increases year after year.
Walnuts, pecans, hazelnuts, chestnut, almonds, macadamia if you have the climate.
Beautiful hard wood for woodworking, or fancy kindling for your stove.

Chestnuts can be a staple crop and grow relatively true from seed, probably 3-4 years from seedling to yield.
So buy a couple of trees and replant your first crop. You'll have an abundant chestnut grove before you know it.
 

hoarder

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#39
While we're on that, TPTB can also make PMs illegal to privately own, or convert everything to electronic currency (most likely). The wanna-be Marxists posing as "Democratic Socialists" in the US have a relatively large base of support with Millenials - IF they gain power, they'll try to outlaw anything resembling "wealth" until everything is in their control. That's a TSHTF scenario that few of us can prepare for.
Sure, TPTB can confiscate all our guns tomorrow and put us all in camps......if they have that much power. But they don't.