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PayPal Refund Policy Change

stas3000

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#1
Not sure if it's been posted already, but earlier this month PP announced several policy/pricing changes. One of them has a potential to really hurt if you sell (on eBay, etc) and issue refunds. In the past and currently, most of the PP fee could be reversed in case of refund. Not anymore. More on PP's Web site, DoC and lots of other places. Bad news.

https://www.doctorofcredit.com/majo...-order-cancellation-affects-ebay-sellers-etc/
 

Irons

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#2
Between ebay fees paypal fees increases in package mailing fees and everybody expecting free shipping on everything (thanks amazon)
I have given up trying to sell things on ebay. You end up giving your stuff away.
We just dump everything at goodwill for the tax break.


.
 

the_shootist

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#3
When eBay takes away advantages for the sake of increasing profits they'll go the way of the dodo bird like every other business that has done the same before them
 

Irons

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#4
When eBay takes away advantages for the sake of increasing profits they'll go the way of the dodo bird like every other business that has done the same before them
My LCS guy was very active on ebay for years with a store and over 100k sales and positive feedbacks. He gave up on ebay over a year ago.
They jacked up his fees until he was lucky to break even on a sale. Greedy feckers.

.
 

stas3000

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#5
I don't have much info on the subject, but heard that eBay is slowly rolling out its own payment system which will eventually replace PayPal. I think it's all part of the deal when eBay spun off PP several years ago. Wondering how good that new service is going to be and what it will cost.

But as to this change... if you cancel a $500 eBay order because buyer made a mistake, for example, then you as a seller will be stuck with paying $15 to PP. Not end of the world I guess but what the heck?
 

glockngold

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#6
As I read it, the new paypal policy will do the most damage to sellers that suffer from a high return rate.
Chick clothing sellers will take a beating.
I sell in a low return category (tools) & have had one remorse return in the last year.
So I won't get hurt.
Iron's coin shop guy was selling on ebay where he had to compete with individual sellers that just got grandpa's coin collection & are selling to the public at melt minus 15% total fees, & are tickled to get it.
As always, you make your money when you buy.
So buy right.
 

Uglytruth

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#7
Let see....
Ebay made money when it bought pay pal.
Ebay made money when it sold off pay pal.
Ebay makes money by doing their own credit card payment.

Ever feel like a manipulated puppet?
 

stas3000

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#8
This whole thing is basically a price increase from PP without changing the face value of processing fees. So those that do suffer from a relatively high return rate, may increase prices or change return policies (like store credit vs refund). We'll see.
 

Son of Gloin

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#9
I just got a refund through PayPal. The seller never shipped my item, a DVD set. This is trivial, but instead of the money going right into my paypal account, it was diverted to my checking account, where it has yet to appear. That isn’t a problem, as long as it eventually appears back in my checking account.
 

stas3000

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#10
I just got a refund through PayPal. The seller never shipped my item, a DVD set. This is trivial, but instead of the money going right into my paypal account, it was diverted to my checking account, where it has yet to appear. That isn’t a problem, as long as it eventually appears back in my checking account.
You probably won't see anything until about 5 business days from the point refund was issued. That's been my experience with refunds for purchases made via eBay if funds were swept into seller's own checking/savings account. If the seller had PP balance then you would get funds faster. And PP refunds usually go back to the checking account, credit card or whatever form of payment you used when making the purchase. I personally prefer to use credit cards when using eBay or PayPal unless it's a Friends and Family/Gift type of deal.
 

Thecrensh

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#11
My LCS guy was very active on ebay for years with a store and over 100k sales and positive feedbacks. He gave up on ebay over a year ago.
They jacked up his fees until he was lucky to break even on a sale. Greedy feckers.

.
That policy change will cause people to seek out alternative options for conducting sale...free market processes.
 

Krag

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#12
I've done hundreds of thousands in dollars in the last few years on ebay, I have no idea how anyone could cope with returns where you would have to pay for return shipping then lose 3%! Ebay is apparently looking at alternatives to paypal; I wonder why they announced such a crappy policy.
 

hammerhead

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#13
Other than reaching a wide market area, the costs really have to get considered if you are going to sell. Been a long time since I even browsed the bay. How much are fees now?
 

Krag

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#14
Other than reaching a wide market area, the costs really have to get considered if you are going to sell. Been a long time since I even browsed the bay. How much are fees now?
Powerseller, top rated are 5.5% plus the 3% paypal. Were 1.9/2.2 a few years ago.
 

Son of Gloin

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#15
Powerseller, top rated are 5.5% plus the 3% paypal. Were 1.9/2.2 a few years ago.
Greed will kill their business. The only good thing they’ve done is to allow sellers to list fee free and only pay when and if they sell their listing. That way, they get people to be willing to list items. I am no power seller, but as a seller, I do have a perfect feedback rating, five star, 100%. It is 10% fees for me with eBay and PP, no matter what I sell. I sold an expensive collector knife several months ago for about $900. I was very surprised to see that $90 in fees. I got way over original cost, but they stuck it to me.
 

davycoppitt

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#16
As I read it, the new paypal policy will do the most damage to sellers that suffer from a high return rate.
Chick clothing sellers will take a beating.
I sell in a low return category (tools) & have had one remorse return in the last year.
So I won't get hurt.
Iron's coin shop guy was selling on ebay where he had to compete with individual sellers that just got grandpa's coin collection & are selling to the public at melt minus 15% total fees, & are tickled to get it.
As always, you make your money when you buy.
So buy right.
My state also added sales tax so it makes my buys harder. I've bought about 1/10th off eBay since then. With all that it still beats meeting freaks off craigslist.
 

Krag

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#17
I don't know how Apmex sells so cheap on ebay, especially on holiday weekends, maybe in a few days?
 

Krag

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#18
My state also added sales tax so it makes my buys harder. I've bought about 1/10th off eBay since then. With all that it still beats meeting freaks off craigslist.
I'd open some type of business account, ie a DBA with your state that would pass muster with ebay. I have to upload a copy of my numismatics business license so I won't get dinged with sales taxes which don't apply any way in CT.
 
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GOLDBRIX

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#19
When eBay takes away advantages for the sake of increasing profits they'll go the way of the dodo bird like every other business that has done the same before them
The ONLY thing I use Ebay for is for finding actual Selling Prices. I haven't bought anything through them in years.
 

ttazzman

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#20
I imagine PP will have to revise its business model somewhat when Ebay opens up direct CC payment ...........i have been getting crap weekly from them for over a year doing everything they can to coerce me into gettting their CC ........I do admit i beat them on fees regularly using the friends and family option for person to person purchases

PP without Ebay will be a weak business model i would imagine
 

Son of Gloin

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#21
The ONLY thing I use Ebay for is for finding actual Selling Prices. I haven't bought anything through them in years.
The only thing I use eBay for, to buy, is stuff that just isn’t available for sale anywhere else. Collector books, especially, collectible out of production knives, also out of print DVD’s, etc.
 

the_shootist

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#22
I use eBay to buy and Craigslist to sell. eBay is pro buyer and anti seller. Craigslist is free and easy to advertise and sell from as long as you follow a few basic guidelines.
 

the_shootist

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#23
The only thing I use eBay for, to buy, is stuff that just isn’t available for sale anywhere else. Collector books, especially, collectible out of production knives, also out of print DVD’s, etc.
eBay can be a treasure trove for a buyer and a nightmare for a seller. Think about who actually pays eBay and you realize the eBay merchants are going after their cut of the profits. Punishing a seller is like killing the golden goose. All decisions (unless thoroughly blatant) go in favor of the buyer (i.e. cash cow). No buyers, no cash flows....basic (((merchant))) principle
 

Goldhedge

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#24
Between ebay fees paypal fees increases in package mailing fees and everybody expecting free shipping on everything (thanks amazon)
AMZN isn't 'free' shipping. Costs $120/yr?? for 'free'... It's a great deal if you buy a whole bunch on AMZN and typically, the cost of the item is more than what can normally be had without Prime.

What is good is streaming videos on Firestick etc. and prepaid returns.

I cut the cord and saved $50/month which offsets the AMZn fee.
 

stas3000

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#25
By way of an update, some people have been reporting that the policy change was never implemented because of backlash. Looks to be the case! I had to issue a refund recently and everything but the $0.30 got credited back. So same as it used to be.
 

Zed

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#26
I just got a refund through PayPal. The seller never shipped my item, a DVD set. This is trivial, but instead of the money going right into my paypal account, it was diverted to my checking account, where it has yet to appear. That isn’t a problem, as long as it eventually appears back in my checking account.
It's your bank then IMO. PayPal refunds are next day on my credit card in Oz so Ican't see why you'd not get the same service.
 

Buck

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#27
4%, is that what PP charges?
 

SilverBuyer

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It's your bank then IMO. PayPal refunds are next day on my credit card in Oz so Ican't see why you'd not get the same service.
Bank refunds are usually slower for whatever reason in my experience
 

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#30

GOLDBRIX

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#31
Bank refunds are usually slower for whatever reason in my experience
It COULD be a tactic the bank(s) use to increase profits. All monies going back to accounts take time to get back to the originator (YOU). Every night the banks make money in Overnight Fees. Everyday the bank "works" the transactions that is less money the FED requires them to hold and they don't have to pay that fee to the FED for overnights.

The shear amount of reimbursements is probably at least a million + daily if not millions. Once monies get back in you account that process starts paying you if you are a big enough client, and not in a negative interest rate nation. My W.A.G.
 

Goldhedge

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#32
I recently sold a realtor lockbox on fleabay.

Explicitly stated NO RETURNS! Check with your local board to make sure it works in your area!!

The guy bought it w/o checking. Sent it out, then he wants a refund return because he didn’t check!!

Ebay locked my account until I paid $20 fee. I said I would as soon as they explained why the fee.

Today I see they requested and received from my bank the “fee”.

Now I have to “protest” it. They even gave me a link!!
 

GOLDBRIX

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#33
I recently sold a realtor lockbox on fleabay.

Explicitly stated NO RETURNS! Check with your local board to make sure it works in your area!!

The guy bought it w/o checking. Sent it out, then he wants a refund return because he didn’t check!!

Ebay locked my account until I paid $20 fee. I said I would as soon as they explained why the fee.

Today I see they requested and received from my bank the “fee”.

Now I have to “protest” it. They even gave me a link!!
That's PROGS for ya. Their mentality "It was NEVER your money in the first place. WE just let you use some of it".
 
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#35
Greed will kill their business. The only good thing they’ve done is to allow sellers to list fee free and only pay when and if they sell their listing. That way, they get people to be willing to list items. I am no power seller, but as a seller, I do have a perfect feedback rating, five star, 100%. It is 10% fees for me with eBay and PP, no matter what I sell. I sold an expensive collector knife several months ago for about $900. I was very surprised to see that $90 in fees. I got way over original cost, but they stuck it to me.
I actually think that’s not a good thing. It clogs eBay with so many garbage listings to weed through that people can just throw on there to see if some idiot bites. I bought a box of baseball cards at my local shop last weekend for $9 and tax. One seller on eBay had the same box for $234.95 plus $7.95 s/h, the other two people selling that same box wanted $47 and change plus shipping, and $54 and shipping. I routinely see Buy it now listings for $20-200 over the final bid price of the same item. I understand the idea of paying for the convenience of immediate sale and shipment, but weeding through dozens or hundreds of the same item that are only listed because free listings are great to bump eBay listing numbers to make them seem more viable to shareholders. If these folks had to pay to put stupid prices on things, it would be a lot easier to find items that people are actually trying to sell.
 

Son of Gloin

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#36
I actually think that’s not a good thing. It clogs eBay with so many garbage listings to weed through that people can just throw on there to see if some idiot bites. I bought a box of baseball cards at my local shop last weekend for $9 and tax. One seller on eBay had the same box for $234.95 plus $7.95 s/h, the other two people selling that same box wanted $47 and change plus shipping, and $54 and shipping. I routinely see Buy it now listings for $20-200 over the final bid price of the same item. I understand the idea of paying for the convenience of immediate sale and shipment, but weeding through dozens or hundreds of the same item that are only listed because free listings are great to bump eBay listing numbers to make them seem more viable to shareholders. If these folks had to pay to put stupid prices on things, it would be a lot easier to find items that people are actually trying to sell.
I suppose it depends on the kind of things you’re looking to buy, but I personally haven’t had any problems. I do know what you mean, though about people listing items for outrageous prices. Some of this stuff I look at and want to ask the seller what the hell they’re thinking. I saw an item just the other day with an unbelievable price on it. Can’t recall what it was.
 

the_shootist

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#37
I suppose it depends on the kind of things you’re looking to buy, but I personally haven’t had any problems. I do know what you mean, though about people listing items for outrageous prices. Some of this stuff I look at and want to ask the seller what the hell they’re thinking. I saw an item just the other day with an unbelievable price on it. Can’t recall what it was.
Caveat Emptor!
 

Son of Gloin

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#38
Another thing I see is a totally reasonable sale price, but they will attach a shipping fee that is entirely outrageous for something that can be shipped for well under ten bucks. Sometimes the shipping fee is astronomical. I guess they hope folks will just overlook it on a buy it now and just pay shipping without thinking. The word shyster comes to mind.