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People That Are STILL in Denial About Bitcoin!

Goldhedge

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Goldhedge

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told a young guy who was all about bitcoin...

Me: "But you need electricity"...

Him: "Yeah, but..."

Me: "I can take a silver dime and go buy a chicken with it."
 

Mujahideen

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told a young guy who was all about bitcoin...

Me: "But you need electricity"...

Him: "Yeah, but..."

Me: "I can take a silver dime and go buy a chicken with it."

But you can’t buy internet porn (efficiency) with bullion.

unless you’re prepping, I don’t understand the argument. You can buy chicken with dollars. And in a bad enough situation no one is going to trade food for metal.
 

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In a bad enough situation there won't be any electricity - especially if they go green energy...
 

the_shootist

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Isn't Denial a river in Egypt? :summer:
 

Buck

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Casey Jones

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JP just lost me as a (sometimes) viewer.

So he's all rich with bitcoin (Greater Fools Theory of wealth). Wait until the tide turns.

Which it will. Pyramids always do. Only a fool believes something only can go up, with no underlying value.

What this all points to, is how so many people don't understand VALUE. If I buy shares of American Widget, I'm buying a percentage of the business. They MAKE WIDGETS. Sell them. If they're doing it right, they profit from the sale.

THAT is why my shares have value - because the business has value.

On another thread, someone put a link up, a Briton taking apart the Chinese real-estate bubble. It explained the Ghost Cities well - those were not cities to be lived in; real-estate was one of the few investments allowed Chinese non-Party outsiders. So apartments were built...not to live in; that was impossible without utilities, completion, infrastructure and residents. But to buy, so as to sell later for more money.

Those who've read of prisons or POW camps, knows of that kind of trading. Cans of kippers or cigarettes become trading tokens.

But since they're of mere representative value...the cans or cigarettes or unliveable apartments...the value can fall quickly, based on shifting interests. And with power disruptions or intrusive laws (coming!) bitcoin will be just a past fad, like a Pet Rock.

Yeah, yeah, blockchain. That doesn't infuse tokens with value. I'll take money that's been money since ancient Sumer, over something some autistic cooked up eight years ago.
 

nickndfl

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A lot of time people don't see the entire picture when they are in the middle of a bubble. Once it pops they get it, that sharp stinging pain in the back of the neck as described by Marcellus Wallace.
 

#48Fan

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Naysayers continue to be wrong. Good luck with that.
 

Buck

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jrog100

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Can't the government just turn off bitcoin? In principle, how is it different than fiat?
 

ErrosionOfAccord

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Gotta admit, I wish I had bought some when we first heard about it here. I was still in debt and dumping everything into a mortgage. If I remember right I could'a bought in at 25 cents. Even if I had, I would have cashed out as soon as it bought the mortgage.
 

the_shootist

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I don't give a rat's ass about BitCoin. It's fake wealth but don't listen to me....just wait a bit.
 

anywoundedduck

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I don't give a rat's ass about BitCoin. It's fake wealth but don't listen to me....just wait
We won't have long to wait, IMO.
No different than FRNs.
Fiat
Banks are in trouble.
BoA has to find 800,000,000 OZs to cover their short.
 
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Casey Jones

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Can't the government just turn off bitcoin? In principle, how is it different than fiat?
Can ban transactions.

Even if you got on the Dark Web (TOR) to do your exchanging...that bitcoin is going to have to be exchanged, either for dollars, or trade at merchants.

The Woketard Online Cancelling move, should teach us something about how eagerly obedient the Tech and Business communities are, to government demands. Now, for calling for investigation of an obviously-fraudulent election, you can be de-banked. As has Mike Lindell been. For prescribing a curative theraputic like ivermectin, that contradicts the Party Line (dictated by the CCP, and eagerly repeated endlessly by meduh) that vaccines are THE...ONLY...WAY...a physician can lose his medical license. By whim.

And patients lose their lives. As is happening as kourts refuse to order use of ivermectin.

So...does anyone think that when the worm turns, and it's time to take down bitcoin as a competitor to FedCoin...that the government is NOT going to insist that merchants NOT take bitcoin; that exchanges be blocked and banned? Does anyone think that all the fascist-minded tech firms aren't going to EAGERLY obey, as they have when government demanded data and then other forms of blocking and censoring?
 

gringott

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Hey I don't see at this point how it is a problem (for me or anybody else) if I ignore bitcon or other pretend electronic 1s and 0s.

Seeing as infrastructure and "rule of law" is collapsing around our ears, I am focused on something of actual physical value.

I'm out of the fake stock market. No "cryptos".

I favor metals like lead copper gold silver platinum in all the forms. Canned goods and ammo are another focus.

Cryptos or FRNs could become worthless while you sleep one night. "They" certainly are not going to give the plebs and serfs any advanced warning.

I am not picking up dimes in front of a steam roller.
 

solarion

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I'm still in denial about Bitcoin they make them out of nothing just like they do Federal Reserve dollars what's up with that.?
Technically true, and not entirely accurate. A bitcoin exists only intangibly...and that's why it can transfer wealth anywhere in the world near instantaneously. If it existed physically this would not be possible.

While this is like a bank credit "dollar" in some respects, it also differs from a digital debt dollar in some very important ways.

Firstly, it costs a lot of electricity to create a bitcoin...so they're not "free".

Secondly, the number of bitcoin in existence is a known quantity...unlike dollars. This quantity is expanding at a controlled rate of approximately 1 "block" every 10 mins and will continue to do this for the next 120 years.

Below, please find PRECISELY the number of bitcoin in existence...to the fraction of a coin...

Thirdly, ...and most importantly, a bitcoin in existence is nobody else's liability. It exists only as an asset.

Obviously most of the old foggies around these parts made up their mind about bitcoin long ago, so this stuff mostly just rolls right off the crowd here, but these and other reasons are why bitcoin has been the best investment in human history. Younglings do not see a world where it's bitcoin vs gold/silver. That's a false narrative anyway, bitcoin does not serve the same purpose as gold and silver specie...instead it offers new ways to protect one's wealth that PMs are unable to provide.

I know...don't care...shitcoin...blah blah. "If you can't hold it...blah blah..." "It's not REAL like a share in JP Morgue ETF silver!"
 

solarion

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Can't the government just turn off bitcoin? In principle, how is it different than fiat?
No, at least not directly...or practically. Bitcoin exists due to multiple "nodes" running simultaneously around the world. Even one of these surviving at any given time means bitcoin will continue. It is de-centralized in such a way as to make it nearly impervious to government shutdown.

The word "fiat" means "by decree". So no, bitcoin is not fiat...unless and until you're forced to pay your taxes with it.

1642421318693.png
 

Casey Jones

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Hey I don't see at this point how it is a problem (for me or anybody else) if I ignore bitcon or other pretend electronic 1s and 0s.

Seeing as infrastructure and "rule of law" is collapsing around our ears, I am focused on something of actual physical value.

I'm out of the fake stock market. No "cryptos".

I favor metals like lead copper gold silver platinum in all the forms. Canned goods and ammo are another focus.

Cryptos or FRNs could become worthless while you sleep one night. "They" certainly are not going to give the plebs and serfs any advanced warning.

I am not picking up dimes in front of a steam roller.
That's my view as well. It's not a problem for me. And if someone managed to make money (and lock it up by pulling it out of the crap game) with digital tokens, more power to them.

What set me off here, was JP - who mostly has offered the Sarcasm of Reason in his vids - starts mocking people who're unpersuaded by the tub-thumping of the bitcoin pumpers.

THAT is the WRONG kind of sales job. Present the facts? I'm interested, even if I'm not ready to put money in. Although I've seen the facts, and the fact is, there's no there there.

Insist that I "don't understand"? Well, that's right. I don't understand fanboiz. I hear them talking about TSLA (Ross Gerber, the couple of times he was on Quoth The Raven) and I hear Max Keiser with his All-Bitcoin, All-The-Time vlog.

I have become convinced that it's the average buyer, not me, who "doesn't understand." Businesses like Greyscale, who take a commission to "hold" bitcoin for customers (boy, that's a service; holding a string of code!) exist on that lack of understanding. Coinbase makes a lot of money off the lack of understanding, of how to trade it.

I see a speculative short-term investment opportunity (now passed, as we're near Peak BItcoin) for gamblers, and a pyramid scheme for others. I see that the True Believers are the ones who don't understand what a successful money is composed of, or what an investment is.

I'm not flaming anyone here...you want in, hey, have in. But save me the sales job and the derisive assertions about what I know. When guys like this video comic start mocking me for my prudence, they lose me as an audience.
 

ds_mustang

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People have been claiming we're at peak Bitcoin for over 10 years and it keeps going up in value and gaining adoption.

I can't predict exactly what's going to happen so I have PM's and several crypto. The "gold/silver only" and "bitcoin only" folks both seem to have a surety of mind I don't have.
 

Casey Jones

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Fine. Go for it. Put your money where you want.

Telling me how "stupid" I am for remembering past bubbles, based around items of no value...is tactless, pointless and annoying. No matter who it comes from.
 

wastrel

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I know these "discussions" (cough) tend towards the argumentative, but I really do like hearing the points of view from different sides on the whole digital currencies thing. It helps me rethink my own point of view.
 

nickndfl

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We won't have long to wait, IMO.
No different than FRNs.
Fiat
Banks are in trouble.
BoA has to find 800,000,000 OZs to cover their short.
I know Scorpio has half that amount stashed under his house.
 

Scald

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Is it possible that digital currencies and NFT's could be wiped out in the event of a coordinated EMP event? I wouldn't put it past TPTB to consider wiping out trillions of fiat they printed, which was converted to crypto as part of their "reset"

Disclosure: I do dabble in crypto, and have even lost some in a virtual boating accident.
 

specsaregood

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I'm not into crypto (made some money and got out of it years ago) but I only see its rise as a good thing.
Because it is getting people used to the idea of competing currencies. This can only help gold/silver/etc. in the long run.
Breaking people out of the mindset that they can only use FRNs is a good thing. And at the surface level, the govt has nothing to do with bitcoin or most of the other cryptos.

So I say: keep on keeping on crypto brothers, change people's mindset. Diversify and make your transactions in whatever asset/currency you and the other person freely choose.
 

Casey Jones

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If you need a network to give "value" to these things...then, yes, destruction of the network infrastructure will affect their value and your ability to cash in on that supposed value.
 

Nomis Elpmis

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This is why it has value: "Bitcoin is the first global, digital, non-state/non-central entity controlled, financial asset with 24/7 market-based prices."
 

anywoundedduck

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anywoundedduck

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anywoundedduck

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Is it possible that digital currencies and NFT's could be wiped out in the event of a coordinated EMP event? I wouldn't put it past TPTB to consider wiping out trillions of fiat they printed, which was converted to crypto as part of their "reset"

Disclosure: I do dabble in crypto, and have even lost some in a virtual boating accident.
Your guess is as good as mine, but I'll try.
We have been told that an EMP attack would be disastrous for all electronics. It will wipe them out. Wipe out the internet. Wipe out computers. WIPE OUT POWER GRIDS.
So, an EMP will prevent access to any cryptos you might own.
How long before power restored? I've heard 6 months to 2 years.
Whereas, the PMs I lost in a boating accident are easily retrievable.
What do you think?
 

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Duck, exactly! Fortunately, I have converted my crypto winnings to physical for that reason. Just need to learn to stay off the boats. Good thing I have Scuba equipment ;)
 

the_shootist

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Duck, exactly! Fortunately, I have converted my crypto winnings to physical for that reason. Just need to learn to stay off the boats. Good thing I have Scuba equipment ;)
Good for you! That's the way to play the game! Well played sir...well played!
 

Goldhedge

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El Salvador adopted bitcoin...

Here's how the international bankers reward such decisions to leave the plantation....

Screen Shot 2022-01-18 at 9.32.54 PM.png
 

Mujahideen

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Whereas, the PMs I lost in a boating accident are easily retrievable.

what are you going to do with PMs after an emp attack?

cryptos aren’t a prepping tool, and no one is going to trade food or bullets for metal when shtf. I don’t understand the argument.

if you want to be prepared for an emp attack you buy supplies beforehand, because you won’t be able to after. What does that have to do with currency?

I’d rather have a couple guns, a few magazines, thousands of bullets and a bunch of spam and honey, access to water and live in a likeminded community than have a few dozen monster boxes of gold when an emp attack happens.
 

Casey Jones

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what are you going to do with PMs after an emp attack?

cryptos aren’t a prepping tool, and no one is going to trade food or bullets for metal when shtf. I don’t understand the argument.

if you want to be prepared for an emp attack you buy supplies beforehand, because you won’t be able to after. What does that have to do with currency?
There will eventually be monetary-based trading after an EMP, just as before.

The question is, what money will survive.

During the chaos, there won't be trading - only looting and slaughter. What you have is all you have, unless you blow holes in strangers who have more.

But that won't last long - for obvious reasons. If nobody can plant, everyone will starve. Eventually SOME sort of order asserts itself, and those who farm are gonna trade with those who work with wood, and those who can teach children...etc...

What sort of money is going to survive this collapse?

How long will it be before the power comes back on?

Who will fix, build, sell, computers, network critical parts, IP subscriptions, when we're recovering from such chaos?

This is a crap shoot. You place your bets and see where the wheel stops.
 

Goldhedge

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This is a crap shoot. You place your bets and see where the wheel stops.
That's life, funny as it may seem. Some folks get their kicks stomping on a dream....
 

Mujahideen

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Those are all arguments for prepping and post shtf, not conducting modern commerce. In the meantime where the world didn’t end, what’s the plan?

my investments have made some good return most of the time, and they are just 1s and 0s. Whereas my bullion does nothing but hold value.
 

gringott

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Those are all arguments for prepping and post shtf, not conducting modern commerce. In the meantime where the world didn’t end, what’s the plan?

my investments have made some good return most of the time, and they are just 1s and 0s. Whereas my bullion does nothing but hold value.

Shocking as it may be, that is the exact reason I would hold PMs if I had any.
Isn't that weird? Think when or if it collapses we are going to a barter economy forever?
Nonsense.

Here in Kentucky I know a place where there was a early trading post for explorers, trappers, hunters etc, perhaps one of the earliest this far west at the time. Squire Boone lived a few miles from my dump. Guess what they found with a metal detector in the ground around that early trading post? Pieces of eight and other odd coins. Because what do you trade your furs for, beside basic supplies like salt and other staples? You are not going to trade your furs for bulky shit you have no place to store or means to transport across the wilderness. Barter of course always will be with us, but it certainly isn't the foundation of any real economy. If you read a bit about the later colonial era, America was starved for currency as in silver and gold coins. It held back the economy.

Say I have chickens. Sure I can trade eggs to you for firewood. What about all my other customers? What the fuck are they trading? Does somebody who wants my eggs guess what I would trade for them? Haul a selection of shit to my shack to see what I might take for three eggs, then off to the bacon man to try to trade something for a slab of bacon. On and on. What that really is, is waiting until stored food and fuel runs out, then it is back to hunter gatherer society or a rebuilding of a market system. That requires a form of currency. Period.