• "Spreading the ideas of freedom loving people on matters regarding metals, finance, politics, government and many other topics"

Physical or Mining shares?

Cigarlover

Midas Member
Midas Member
Midas Supporter
Joined
Dec 18, 2011
Messages
9,901
Reaction score
20,151
So a family member has made me an offer to purchase all of my physical. Price to be worked out but probably easily doable.
So 1st question.. Since premiums are so high is it not reasonable to charge whatever the going rate is on average across all the dealer site? Silver around 30-31 and gold about 1875ish.

I like my shiny stuff though. If I sold I would hang onto a few collectable pieces that I really like. I don't really need the money however, it seems like that money could work better in mining shares. If the price does decide to move up drastically would I not make more in mining shares than in physical?

For simplicities sake lets assume 1000 oz of silver. At roughly 30 an oz.
Invest that in mining shares. What do they do if silver hits 100? So physical looks ike 100k. What does a 30k mining portfolio look like?

In the past I have always felt holding metals would protect in a hyper inflationary scenario. Wouldn't the stock market do the same thing? Real estate? House and land are paid for. No debt.
An added bonus is I can go long or short with the stocks. I cant do that with physical. Although I can trade the futures but I don't have the balls to do that with gold and silver. I do trade nasdaq futures but thats enough super high volatility risk for me.

I also don't foresee a scenario where I only eat if I have a few ounces of silver in my pocket. I'm also a pepper so if need be I could get by for a very long time. In fact if I ran out of food than 99% of the population ran out and starved to death long ago. I'm also a pretty good gardener so my food supply only increases from here, canned and frozen as well as dehydrated items.

So basically it comes down to mining shares or physical and which one does better over time. Keep in mind I could care less what the market does. I can go long or short and make money either way. Deflation or inflation, doesn't matter if I am trading the markets.
 

GOLDBRIX

'SUSH, MY NEW SAFE HOUSE"
Midas Member
Midas Supporter ++
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
18,427
Reaction score
28,041
Both are manipulated so you have issues in both. My portfolio is a Chinese Menu One from column A and some from column B with a dash of CEF and PSLV.
I would not go All or NOTHING on one specific.
Best of Luck
DYODD out here.
 

solarion

Midas Member
Midas Member
Midas Supporter
Joined
Nov 25, 2013
Messages
8,979
Reaction score
15,294
If the price does decide to move up drastically would I not make more in mining shares than in physical?
No question which should do better, but one must consider other factors. Counterparty risk, tax consequences, privacy issues, etc. Yes, mining shares offer leverage if the underlying asset increases in value relative to the national currency. That is a compensation, to my mind, for the fact that you must also accept greater counterparty risk.

Metal in your hand is a sunk cost, there is no counterparty. Fiat invested stacking mining shares, likely yields more fiat over time, but that higher expected payoff comes with risks not associated with physical. Most of those risks revolve around the actions of government actors and how they'll react to a failing economy and a great economic reset. Will they implement an "unrealized capital gain" tax? Will they nationalize mines? Etc.

I wouldn't do it, no freaking way, but YMMV. Paper metals are, right this second, being beaten down while huge quantities of physical are being stacked by the elite. They're doing that for a reason.
 

Lancers32

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Site Supporter
Joined
May 10, 2020
Messages
2,861
Reaction score
3,885
Location
NC
IF Gold and Silver go up you will likely make more money in mining shares if history is any guide. Selling to a family member is never a good idea. If it goes down you not only have to deal with the fact you charged a legit premium but they might think you took advantage of them knowing it was going lower. What I would do? One third GDX SILJ and Bitcoin each.
 

nickndfl

Midas Member
Midas Member
Sr Midas Supporter +++
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
Messages
15,617
Reaction score
16,162
Location
Florida
Does this make me elite?
20210308_173747.jpg
20210308_173738.jpg
 

solarion

Midas Member
Midas Member
Midas Supporter
Joined
Nov 25, 2013
Messages
8,979
Reaction score
15,294
Queenies beast white lion. I may have lost some of those in boating accidents.
 

nickndfl

Midas Member
Midas Member
Sr Midas Supporter +++
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
Messages
15,617
Reaction score
16,162
Location
Florida
Absolutely stunning reverse. My new favorite of all time. Now I know why my wife's wedding ring cost so damn much. Platinum is the king for jewelry.
 

Voodoo

Midas Member
Midas Member
Platinum Bling
Site Supporter ++
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
4,505
Reaction score
6,956
Location
Deep Underground Bunker
Sounds like you are bailing out this family member. Ok, if that's your goal. At best I think the most I'd sell is half and that would be at market premiums or better.
 

hammerhead

Morphing
Midas Member
Midas Supporter ++
Joined
Feb 22, 2012
Messages
13,704
Reaction score
19,875
Location
USSA
You put out a lot of questions. The first thing though was do you sell at going rate. Pick three dealers off the web, find a average and that's your sale price. Do sell at paper price would be foolish and that is what he may be looking for.
 

Stop Making Cents

Silver Miner
Seeker
Joined
Apr 3, 2010
Messages
667
Reaction score
802
Location
Amongst the savages
Wouldn't it be more fair to split the difference between what it would cost for your family member to purchase per oz from dealers and what the dealers would pay you per oz to sell to them?

Also agree that i would not make a major sale like this to a family member, it's just asking for hard feelings to undermine your relationship. Even if you treat them right, they will wonder if you took advantage. Avoid this and instead just give the family member quality advice on how to purchase their own supply. You will thank me later.
 

Cigarlover

Midas Member
Midas Member
Midas Supporter
Joined
Dec 18, 2011
Messages
9,901
Reaction score
20,151
Thats pretty nice. I really should get one. LOL. See thats my p[roblem. I love the shiny stuff. :)

As for the family member 30k would be nothing to them. Their stock portfolio fluctuates more than that on a daily basis so it really is nothing to them. For me its a question of where my money will work the best.
 

Jodster

Always wrong
Silver Miner
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
1,244
Reaction score
1,240
Thats pretty nice. I really should get one. LOL. See thats my p[roblem. I love the shiny stuff. :)

As for the family member 30k would be nothing to them. Their stock portfolio fluctuates more than that on a daily basis so it really is nothing to them. For me its a question of where my money will work the best.
This very question has been in my mind for the last few weeks. I’ll post some of my mining picks tomorrow when I’m not so groggy from the pints. This thread is highly relevant.
 

Lancers32

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Site Supporter
Joined
May 10, 2020
Messages
2,861
Reaction score
3,885
Location
NC
TSHTF and keeps hitting the fan long enough and we're all in a Walking Dead movie anyway so WTF does it matter? You get a short term collapse situation metals will help tide you over but cash might work too. Small bills always small denominations. Nothing happens you're a bit hit down at the tittie bar.
 

GOLDBRIX

'SUSH, MY NEW SAFE HOUSE"
Midas Member
Midas Supporter ++
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
18,427
Reaction score
28,041

smooth

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Site Supporter ++
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
3,277
Reaction score
6,703
Ask yourself this, if I were suddenly thrust 10 years into the future what would I rather take with me. Fiat, shares of some mining stocks or physical metals (maybe ammo)?

I've built my core position of physical and it will remain in my possesion or be left to my children.... Other funds can be invested as I see fit...
 

Stop Making Cents

Silver Miner
Seeker
Joined
Apr 3, 2010
Messages
667
Reaction score
802
Location
Amongst the savages
Ask yourself this, if I were suddenly thrust 10 years into the future what would I rather take with me. Fiat, shares of some mining stocks or physical metals (maybe ammo)?

I've built my core position of physical and it will remain in my possesion or be left to my children.... Other funds can be invested as I see fit...
And which position, physical or mining stocks, can be lost in a boating accident?
 

Lancers32

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Site Supporter
Joined
May 10, 2020
Messages
2,861
Reaction score
3,885
Location
NC
And I have only been hearing this for the past 40 years.
 

Jodster

Always wrong
Silver Miner
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
1,244
Reaction score
1,240
Ask yourself this, if I were suddenly thrust 10 years into the future what would I rather take with me. Fiat, shares of some mining stocks or physical metals (maybe ammo)?

I've built my core position of physical and it will remain in my possession or be left to my children.... Other funds can be invested as I see fit...
Smooth, Your approach of having a mixed portfolio is pretty sensible. Physical is a store of wealth. Stocks are to make profit from. It's that simple.

The part of your equation we're not talking about is the "time" factor.
If i were suddenly thrust 10 years into the future, we can expect gains in the value of the physical metal.
By March 09 2031, gold may be $23,000/oz, so you would realize these gains instantly.

But add the factor of "time" with stocks, and a good trader will do equally well. I wanted to buy into BTC 5 years ago but wifey said no. Probably 5 coins @ $200 for a total investment of $1000
During the recent run-up that initial $1000 would have yielded a quarter of a million dollars.
SO in hindsight, profits can be made by working the "time" aspect. The ounce of silver I bought in 2011 is still an ounce of silver, but had it been converted into a lucrative stock, It would be worth an ounce of gold today.
 

solarion

Midas Member
Midas Member
Midas Supporter
Joined
Nov 25, 2013
Messages
8,979
Reaction score
15,294
Physical is a store of wealth. Stocks are to make profit from. It's that simple.
10 years into the future
10 years into the future, there's no telling what the US will look like. Ask yourself if you think it'll look better...or worse? Will the already out of control federal regime steal financial assets they can get their meat hooks into? ...I mean more than they already do? Mining stocks have worked out great in the past because there was significant stability in the US debt based economic system. That's no longer the case. Debt to GDP is 130% currently.

The fed is printing like mad to control the yield curve and blowing up asset bubbles to previously unseen levels. We look to Venezuela and their disastrous mess of an inflationary collapse and think, "well that can't happen here". Yet, guess which nation had the #1 performing stock market last year?

Do not forget that stock prices are measured in fiat...not ounces. Just because the numbers attached to those shares grow, doesn't make them "worth" more. You think the Dow and S & P are anywhere near all time highs just now? ...because big numbers? ...think again. Adjust for inflation, or better still measure the markets in mg/ozt of gold and you'll see an entirely different picture. As ever assessing the value of the world around you in terms of phony fiat debt dollars leads to a lot of incorrect conclusions. Don't be that guy, we're smarter than that here on Gold *IS* Money too.

What do you suppose these indices are going to look like when the criminals at the crimex are finally forced to take their jackboot off the price of gold? Consider also that both silver and platinum are both near 50% of their all time highs and will almost certainly outperform gold...probably by a significant margin. They certainly are thus far this year.

1615294461812.png


1615294534075.png
 

GOLDBRIX

'SUSH, MY NEW SAFE HOUSE"
Midas Member
Midas Supporter ++
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
18,427
Reaction score
28,041

Lancers32

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Site Supporter
Joined
May 10, 2020
Messages
2,861
Reaction score
3,885
Location
NC
Where do you think the rich will put their money if bonds go to crap? Do you think the stock market will just wither and die?
 

GOLDBRIX

'SUSH, MY NEW SAFE HOUSE"
Midas Member
Midas Supporter ++
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
18,427
Reaction score
28,041
And I have only been hearing this for the past 40 years.
There is a good chance you may hear it another 40 before it is all said and done.
 

GOLDBRIX

'SUSH, MY NEW SAFE HOUSE"
Midas Member
Midas Supporter ++
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
18,427
Reaction score
28,041
Smooth, Your approach of having a mixed portfolio is pretty sensible. Physical is a store of wealth. Stocks are to make profit from. It's that simple.

The part of your equation we're not talking about is the "time" factor.
If i were suddenly thrust 10 years into the future, we can expect gains in the value of the physical metal.
By March 09 2031, gold may be $23,000/oz, so you would realize these gains instantly.

But add the factor of "time" with stocks, and a good trader will do equally well. I wanted to buy into BTC 5 years ago but wifey said no. Probably 5 coins @ $200 for a total investment of $1000
During the recent run-up that initial $1000 would have yielded a quarter of a million dollars.
SO in hindsight, profits can be made by working the "time" aspect. The ounce of silver I bought in 2011 is still an ounce of silver, but had it been converted into a lucrative stock, It would be worth an ounce of gold today.
Or a bankrupt company.
FYI: The Dow Jones Ind. Average and the S&P500 are not the same listed companies that started those indices.

We all have seen moves where we think "Wouldas, Couldas, Shouldas, but failed to pull the trigger.
Me, I never seen how AMAZON who never listed a profit its first 10 years would be what it has become.
I had MicroSoft and let it go after years at $2.00 per share.
Timing is everything.
 

solarion

Midas Member
Midas Member
Midas Supporter
Joined
Nov 25, 2013
Messages
8,979
Reaction score
15,294
Where do you think the rich will put their money if bonds go to crap? Do you think the stock market will just wither and die?
The stock market will continue to go up, but the value represented therein will not necessarily go up accordingly. The history of equity assets during inflationary, high inflationary, hyperinflationary, and stagflationary events is well documented at this point.

Was it better to hold gold/silver or equity shares after the Nixon shock(8/71)? Stocks keep up with inflation...for a time, and then get run over by real money.
 

Lancers32

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Site Supporter
Joined
May 10, 2020
Messages
2,861
Reaction score
3,885
Location
NC
Maybe maybe not. To get back to the original question I think it depends on what % of your net worth the physical metals represents. I might be tempted to keep 75% in physical and buy leaps or long dated calls on some Silver mining stocks like CDE and HL. This way if the system collapses and there is no more stock market which is doubtful you are covered.
 

Jodster

Always wrong
Silver Miner
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
1,244
Reaction score
1,240
Maybe maybe not. To get back to the original question I think it depends on what % of your net worth the physical metals represents. I might be tempted to keep 75% in physical and buy leaps or long dated calls on some Silver mining stocks like CDE and HL. This way if the system collapses and there is no more stock market which is doubtful you are covered.
Exactly my point. Cigarlover original post asked PM's OR Stocks.
The decision should not be binary; one way or the other. Why not both?
To hold some physical while leveraging stocks backed by metals, is not a bad idea. One only has to look at PSLV, SPPP or CEF to understand you can have your cake and eat it too.
 

solarion

Midas Member
Midas Member
Midas Supporter
Joined
Nov 25, 2013
Messages
8,979
Reaction score
15,294
...or accept zero counterparty risk...including Robinette's STUPID "unrealized capital gain tax(theft)", keep your wealth in your own pond out back, guarded by your own laser armed sharks, and then buy the dow with a single ounce of gold after it craters.

1615297456150.png


The stock market is completely detached from reality just now. The economy, the real mainstreet economy, is completely fucked. Anyone disagree? The only assets clearly not in a bubble are commodities, and particularly monetary metals. No doubt it's just a coincidence...surely there's no way fed gov would be in on rigging gold and silver prices to keep their fiat ponzi scam going longer.

1615297601833.png
 

Lancers32

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Site Supporter
Joined
May 10, 2020
Messages
2,861
Reaction score
3,885
Location
NC
Exactly my point. Cigarlover original post asked PM's OR Stocks.
The decision should not be binary; one way or the other. Why not both?
To hold some physical while leveraging stocks backed by metals, is not a bad idea. One only has to look at PSLV, SPPP or CEF to understand you can have your cake and eat it too.


Those trackers aren't stocks really and won't give any more upside than the physical.
 

Lancers32

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Site Supporter
Joined
May 10, 2020
Messages
2,861
Reaction score
3,885
Location
NC
The stock market crashed last year. Odds do not favor another one any time soon. I know this time is different.
 

solarion

Midas Member
Midas Member
Midas Supporter
Joined
Nov 25, 2013
Messages
8,979
Reaction score
15,294
Guess that depends on how one defines the terms "crash" and "stock market". The nasdaq has already been thwapped for 10.54% from its highs...not quite a month ago.

1615298631137.png


Overpriced crap tends to suffer when reality comes a calling.
 

Lancers32

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Site Supporter
Joined
May 10, 2020
Messages
2,861
Reaction score
3,885
Location
NC
Up from where last March? IF you are worried about what kind of effect a stock market crash would have on mining shares take a look at Homestake Mining in the 1930's. Some might argue it was more like a utility than a miner but still.
 

Cigarlover

Midas Member
Midas Member
Midas Supporter
Joined
Dec 18, 2011
Messages
9,901
Reaction score
20,151
Lots of great comments here guys. Thank you. Lots to consider.. I may sell the gold and hang onto the silver. IMO the most upside potential. Invest the proceeds as well as add to it on a monthly basis.
 

Cigarlover

Midas Member
Midas Member
Midas Supporter
Joined
Dec 18, 2011
Messages
9,901
Reaction score
20,151
Guess that depends on how one defines the terms "crash" and "stock market". The nasdaq has already been thwapped for 10.54% from its highs...not quite a month ago.

View attachment 204085

Overpriced crap tends to suffer when reality comes a calling.
Made 15% shorting the futures yesterday morning and a couple% going long yesterday afternoon. Just scalping though, no major positions.
 

Lancers32

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Site Supporter
Joined
May 10, 2020
Messages
2,861
Reaction score
3,885
Location
NC
Lots of great comments here guys. Thank you. Lots to consider.. I may sell the gold and hang onto the silver. IMO the most upside potential. Invest the proceeds as well as add to it on a monthly basis.

The Gold is prettier. I might go the other way. You'll get a hernia carrying that crap to the UPS center.
 

solarion

Midas Member
Midas Member
Midas Supporter
Joined
Nov 25, 2013
Messages
8,979
Reaction score
15,294
You'll get a hernia carrying that crap to the UPS center.
Count me in. I had roughly my own weight, until the goofy banksters put it on sale to cover their shorts. ...I doubled up. It was awesome watching all that shiny sink to the bottom of the lake, plus I got to skip some rounds across the water.

The downside of silver, already @ 50% of its all time high? ...in 1980? lol Yeah I sleep fine.
 

Lancers32

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Site Supporter
Joined
May 10, 2020
Messages
2,861
Reaction score
3,885
Location
NC
IF I like CDE calls do you think I am bearish metals?
 

solarion

Midas Member
Midas Member
Midas Supporter
Joined
Nov 25, 2013
Messages
8,979
Reaction score
15,294
Nope. ...and I hope your mining company options do great.

To me it seems a good time to eliminate counterparty risk and get out of bankster fictions is all. YMMV.
 

stAGgering

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Site Supporter ++
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Messages
1,374
Reaction score
1,338
Moving possessed inherent value, which is out of USD form, not taxable, not traceable...
into USD redeemable forms... Hhhmmmm.
I am confused.
The risk taken for gains, in fiat currency that is approaching end of viablity.
Into a QE/Stimulus/Fed printing absorbing stock market.
To be paid in said currency when sales deemed necessary... and taxed accordingly.
I remain confused.
So invest through foreign currency/stock/commodity holdings, maybe.
Canada ? Switzerland ?
Venezuela ?

There is a very dark cloud rolling forth from our past.
Gimly said "Ah it is nothing but a cloud."
Really do what ever you ENJOY.
But peaks of everything, like bubbles in a bathtub are an illusion.
They go right down the drain.

Need to be stimulated... try meth !

Just kidding.