• Same story, different day...........year ie more of the same fiat floods the world
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Poll: Bitcoin Reaches $10,000 or $100 first?

Does Bitcoin Move To $10,000 or $100 Next?


  • Total voters
    35

Mujahideen

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#41
The "market" is even more speculative and corrupt than the Wall Street Casino "market".
Bitcoin is just math. It’s very transparent about how it operates.

Exactly how is it a scam?
 

Joe King

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#42
Anyone that trusts something that went up 413% in 10 months is whacked.
How do you know that it isn't just finding it's natural price? Btc is something new and is currently going through a price discovery phase.


I think the author actually wanted to put $0
Ummmm, it looks like YOU are the author. Why do speak of the "author" in third person terms? I mean, it is your thread, right? Do you always speak of yourself in the third person?



Bitcoin is just math. It’s very transparent about how it operates.
Maths obviously is a very difficult topic for some people. lol
 

Area51

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#43
Bitcoin is just math. It’s very transparent about how it operates.

Exactly how is it a scam?
Imagine the outrage if the Fed suddenly proclaimed a new currency called the AmeriDollar was going to be created tomorrow and for every USDollar you'd receive an AmeriDollar.

Or if $300 MILLION suddenly vanished from random bank accounts with the only explanation being sorry about your luck but they're gone forever.

I don't know about you, but I'd hardly consider that to be "transparent".
 

Mujahideen

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#44
Imagine the outrage if the Fed suddenly proclaimed a new currency called the AmeriDollar was going to be created tomorrow and for every USDollar you'd receive an AmeriDollar.

Or if $300 MILLION suddenly vanished from random bank accounts with the only explanation being sorry about your luck but they're gone forever.

I don't know about you, but I'd hardly consider that to be "transparent".
Is that what’s going on with bitcoin?
 

solarion

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#45
So just so I understand, you're saying it's okay for incessant pumpers to pump it all day long but no one can be the voice of reason pointing out how its just a shined up turd that will be $0 soon?
Not what I said. I never said you couldn't post on the topic, you're free to express your opinion...I merely question your motivation. I mean, you don't like it...everyone gets that, but I'm curious about what motivates you(and others) to keep repeating the same things(many provably false) about a currency you plainly have no interest in and know so very little about? I mean you didn't even recognize that bitcoin cash's ticker was BCH and recently posted the wrong chart.

You call bitcoin fiat, you call it a "shined up turd that will be $0 soon". What does "soon" mean? I don't suppose you have any time frame for when 1 bitcoin will = $100 or $0? I suspect you know, as do I, that being right, but getting the timing wrong can be as costly as getting a call wrong in investing. Recently I heard Hoffman call bitcoin the best investment in the world for 7 years running...with the exception of one year. It really wouldn't surprise me a bit when you consider one btc was under a penny as recently as 2009 and last week they hit $7900. Clearly the "incessant pumpers" as you call them have been consistently right re: Bitcoin, while you've been...something else entirely.
 

90%RealMoney

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#46
Whats the difference between bitcoin, and an initial public offering? A company has an IPO to raise capital, then uses the raised capital for operations, expansion, etc. It's just a loan based on faith really. Amazon's IPO was what, almost 20 years ago? They didn't show a profit for over 10 years I think. In fact, they were in the red, year after year. As long as people believe in your idea, and don't bail on your stock, you are good to go. Most here don't believe in Keynesian economics, but the quantitative easing that was done after 2008 actually DID work, as much as I hate to admit it. Now, that doesn't mean there won't be hell to pay down the road, don't get me wrong. I think peoples attention spans are so short now, that this can go on for almost ever. Honor and Integrity have been replaced by Greed and Faith. Japanese cars were far superior to US cars back in the 80's and 90's, because the Japanese were honorable and had the utmost integrity. Now they are slipping like everyone else, because they have been westernized, and are using the same profit making tactics as the US companies. Cut corners, have parts made in China. Look at the Tanaka airbag ordeal. That would never had happened with a Japanese company decades ago. Fukashima was an issue of corruptness also. The whole world is corrupt now in my opinion, and that sums up alot of reasons why things are the way they are. Bitcoin is no different than anything else. Sign of the (end) times.
 

Joe King

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#47
Japanese cars were far superior to US cars back in the 80's and 90's,
That competition also had the effect of our car makers improving the quality of their products. Without that competition, we all still might be driving K cars or other crappy Detroit-built cars of the 80's. lol



....and @solarion, it's called sour grapes. lol
 

90%RealMoney

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#48
That competition also had the effect of our car makers improving the quality of their products. Without that competition, we all still might be driving K cars or other crappy Detroit-built cars of the 80's. lol



....and @solarion, it's called sour grapes. lol
I agree with that. But still, American profiteering wore off onto the Japanese as well. They got tired of their 20 to 30 year recession.
 

Area51

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#49
Bitcoin is no different than the USD in the sense that both are intrinsically worthless and backed by absolutely ZERO.

Would I trade 5oz of gold for one bitcoin? Bahahaha...not a chance!

But there's some degenerate speculators who would do just that - - and then sit in front of their computer staring at their "value" go up and down like a yo yo.
 

90%RealMoney

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#50
Bitcoin is no different than the USD in the sense that both are intrinsically worthless and backed by absolutely ZERO.

Would I trade 5oz of gold for one bitcoin? Bahahaha...not a chance!

But there's some degenerate speculators who would do just that - - and then sit in front of their computer staring at their "value" go up and down like a yo yo.
Exactly. I can pay my Dish Network TV bill, as well as State Farm insurance with Bitcoin, if I had any. I wouldn't trade gold for Bitcoin either. But wouldn't it be a great feeling, if you had put $100.00 into Bitcoin the day it started? You'd have about 75 million dollars worth now, and could buy gold coins all day every day with that initial $100.00 investment, and it would take along time to spend it all. Somehow, that puts the whole thing in perspective. No different than growing a cash crop, and using the proceeds to buy gold, or whatever with it. It's a commodity, like everything else.
 

Mujahideen

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#51
Bitcoin is no different than the USD in the sense that both are intrinsically worthless and backed by absolutely ZERO.

Would I trade 5oz of gold for one bitcoin? Bahahaha...not a chance!

But there's some degenerate speculators who would do just that - - and then sit in front of their computer staring at their "value" go up and down like a yo yo.
Why would you trade gold for any currency in the first place?

As long as they are being upfront about the number of bitcoins that are created, I see it as something that’s above government paper currency.

It doesn’t need to have intrinsic value to have value. Nothing of intrinsic value can exist digitally.

You can’t buy anything online with gold.
And government currency has a high level of corruption.
This is where transparent non governmental currency has its place.
 

southfork

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#52
Does anyone think .gov will allow an alternate currency to the dollar go that high, it will be bitch slapped like gold and silver
 

Joe King

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#53
Bitcoin is no different than the USD in the sense that both are intrinsically worthless and backed by absolutely ZERO.
How 'bout you put your money where your mouth is and send me all your worthless US Dollars then?

If they are worthless, you obviously won't miss them, right? I'd even be willing to pay 10cents in gold on the face Dollar amount for all you have. Surely you'll take me up on this exceedingly generous offer?
 

solarion

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#54
Does anyone think .gov will allow an alternate currency to the dollar go that high, it will be bitch slapped like gold and silver
The trouble with bitcoin(and other cryptos) is that it's tough to stop. It's decentralized and global so it's not like gumbymints can just claim "counterfeiting" and shut down bitcoin like they did liberty dollars. Like the silver and gold manipulation, the banksters are creating paper derivatives to allow them to counterfeit cryptos. That seems to me to be a tougher sell though because bitcoin is already digital. Just the same many a fool will invest in bitcoin "ETFs" and assorted other paper bitcoin "instruments" and if the value of bitcoin should one day be determined by those counterfeits rather than what another human is actually willing to pay for a real bitcoin, then the banksters will have won and will beat down bitcoin just like they do commodity money.
 

Area51

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#55
How 'bout you put your money where your mouth is and send me all your worthless US Dollars then?

If they are worthless, you obviously won't miss them, right? I'd even be willing to pay 10cents in gold on the face Dollar amount for all you have. Surely you'll take me up on this exceedingly generous offer?

That feeble "reasoning" was already put forth in Post #15 and debunked in Post #16.

Please refrain from junking up this thread with your trolling comments.
 

Area51

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#56
Why would you trade gold for any currency in the first place?

As long as they are being upfront about the number of bitcoins that are created, I see it as something that’s above government paper currency.

It doesn’t need to have intrinsic value to have value. Nothing of intrinsic value can exist digitally.

You can’t buy anything online with gold.
And government currency has a high level of corruption.
This is where transparent non governmental currency has its place.
What do you suppose the reaction would be if $300 MILLION of USD vanished overnight from people's bank accounts?

Likely a bit more than what those poor suckers who lost all their crypto currency received.
 

Joe King

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#57
That feeble "reasoning" was already put forth in Post #15 and debunked in Post #16.

Please refrain from junking up this thread with your trolling comments.
What about your trolling comments?
....and that was goldie. Now it's you saying us fiat is worthless. So why are you junking up this thread by posting crap that was already posted too? Seems goldie already covered it, but here you come repeating it. So I offered to buy your worthless fiat. If it is worthless, it has no worth, right? If so, why won't you take 10cents on face for it? I even offered gold.
....but we both know why you won't, and that's because we both know that US Dollars are in fact not worthless. Same as btc is not worthless.


I have to say though, your sour grapes make me chuckle. lol
...and me junking up the thread? @Area51 , you haven't even voted in it yet. lol lol lol
 

Area51

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#58
...we both know that US Dollars are in fact not worthless. Same as btc is not worthless.
USD can still be dumped off in exchange for tangible goods. How much longer that will be the case?

Because just as with every single intrinsically worthless currency in the history of mankind, it's inevitable the USD - - as well as crypto currencies - - will arrive back at their intrinsic value of ZERO.
 

Joe King

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#59
USD can still be dumped off in exchange for tangible goods. How much longer that will be the case?
BTC can still be dumped off in exchange for tangible goods too.
...and how much longer? I dunno, but as long we can, it's all good man. lol


Because just as with every single intrinsically worthless currency in the history of mankind, it's inevitable the USD - - as well as crypto currencies - - will arrive back at their intrinsic value of ZERO.
Ok, but until they do, why the hatred?

You spend Dollars, right? If so, why?
....and the bigger question is, why on Earth did you ever accept them? Seems strange to call something worthless when you readily accept that same worthless thing in exchange for goods and/or services.
 

Area51

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#60
BTC can still be dumped off in exchange for tangible goods too.
...and how much longer? I dunno, but as long we can, it's all good man. lol


Ok, but until they do, why the hatred?

You spend Dollars, right? If so, why?
....and the bigger question is, why on Earth did you ever accept them? Seems strange to call something worthless when you readily accept that same worthless thing in exchange for goods and/or services.
You ask the most asinine questions.

Why do I accept dollars? Gee, I don't know - - maybe because that's all some people have to give in exchanges for my goods and/or services? And I spend them as fast as possible for tangible goods because I realize the dollar's intrinsic - - and inevitable - - value is ZERO.

Believe me, I'd MUCH rather accept the equivalent in gold or silver and I barter whenever possible. Would I ever accept bitcoins or any other crypto currency as payment? Hell no. They're WAY too volatile. I could collect an invoice for $10000 in bitcoins today and only end up having $9000 by tomorrow with how wildly the speculation swings are.

You've been on this forum for a while - - have you not learned anything about intrinsically worthless currencies?

If some misinformed jackass proclaimed "the USD is the future of business!" I'd be the first one to call bullshit and eviscerate such a comical assertion. I do the same thing when someone tries to insist bitcoins or any other crypto currency is the future of business.

Just call it for what it is - - intrinsically worthless junk that's fun to speculate on.
 

Joe King

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#61
You ask the most asinine questions.
...and I think that you make the most asinine comments, so I guess we're even steven then? lol


Why do I accept dollars? Gee, I don't know - - maybe because that's all some people have to give in exchanges for my goods and/or services? And I spend them as fast as possible for tangible goods because I realize the dollar's intrinsic - - and inevitable - - value is ZERO.
Then you're bein' a good lil' consumer by doing exactly what you've been programed to do by the fed. The whole point of dollars is to spend them. In fact, it was designed to be inflationary for that very reason. To get you to spend them quicker.
....but what you are saying is that in spite of your other post, the US Dollar is not in fact "worthless", now is it?



Believe me, I'd MUCH rather accept the equivalent in gold or silver and I barter whenever possible. Would I ever accept bitcoins or any other crypto currency as payment? Hell no. They're WAY too volatile. I could collect an invoice for $10000 in bitcoins today and only end up having $9000 by tomorrow with how wildly the speculation swings are.
If you had been alive prior to the feds creation, you'd likely have made the same statement against fiat money. That you'd never accept it.
...and btc's volatility is mostly due to it being a new market. Ie: this is its price discovery phase. You shouldn't really expect any market to be stable for long periods of time until its had a chance to figure out what the price should be.



You've been on this forum for a while - - have you not learned anything about intrinsically worthless currencies?
I've learned plenty about them long before this forum or its predecessor were even so much as a thought in anyones mind.


If some misinformed jackass proclaimed "the USD is the future of business!" I'd be the first one to call bullshit and eviscerate such a comical assertion. I do the same thing when someone tries to insist bitcoins or any other crypto currency is the future of business.
Actually, I think something like btc could be a viable World reserve in that it would free up the World from having to rely on a single nations currency. It doesn't have to be btc, but it should not be able to be controlled or issued by any State actors.



Just call it for what it is - - intrinsically worthless junk that's fun to speculate on.
I've readily admitted that cryptos have no actual intrinsic value, only extrinsic value.
...but it is still a type of valuation.

You seem to be hung up on the word intrinsic. It's not really that important that money have that. It'd be nice, to be sure, but it's not a requirement.
...and if you hold PM's only because you believe someone else will pay you for them at some point, then you are only counting on the extrinsic value of your PM's. To have intrinsic value to you, it would require that you actually had a use for the material itself. Such as making gold leaf, or plating electrical contacts.


Edited to add: @Area51 , With your obvious interest in this subject, it surprises me that you still haven't voted in the poll. Goldie needs your vote, buddy. $100 is losing.
 
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solarion

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#62
It's like watching a hypothetical Friedman/Obama debate on economics...total carnage. Soon Barry would be spewing stupid crap like "facts uh...uh don't matter".
 

Joe King

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#64
Never imagined I'd see a shill for fiat currencies trolling this forum.
I'm merely pointing out that it does seem to work. That's all. I also said I'd prefer that it wasn't.
...but various types of fiat have worked throughout history and that is a fact.

People have used sticks, stones, shells, and any number of other things as "money". All it needs is to have some type of value assigned to it that most everyone using it, agrees upon. That agreement can be voluntary, such as the case with btc, or it can compulsory as in when a gov decrees that it be.
....and all I was doing was to point out the inconsistencies in your posts. In one you declare US Dollars to be worthless, but in another post you say they do in fact have worth. Which is it? Can't be both. Try to be consistent in your postys please. lol



Edited to add:....and the biggest problem with the US Dollar is not so much that it is fiat, but that it is inflationary.
 

Area51

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#65
I'm merely pointing out that it does seem to work. That's all. I also said I'd prefer that it wasn't.
...but various types of fiat have worked throughout history and that is a fact.

People have used sticks, stones, shells, and any number of other things as "money". All it needs is to have some type of value assigned to it that most everyone using it, agrees upon. That agreement can be voluntary, such as the case with btc, or it can compulsory as in when a gov decrees that it be.
....and all I was doing was to point out the inconsistencies in your posts. In one you declare US Dollars to be worthless, but in another post you say they do in fact have worth. Which is it? Can't be both. Try to be consistent in your postys please. lol



Edited to add:....and the biggest problem with the US Dollar is not so much that it is fiat, but that it is inflationary.
Fiat currencies have always failed, my friend. ways have, always will.

They're inflationary because they're backed by ZERO.

Some gullible suckers haven't figured out that currencies backed by ZERO - - such as the USD and bitcoins - - are intrinsically worthless and can be created out of thin air, as with USDs and the new bitcoin cash iteration.

Once enough of the naive saps such as yourself get a clue and finally figure it out, the currency goes Zimbabwe back to it's intrinsic value of ZERO.
 

Joe King

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#66
They're inflationary because they're backed by ZERO.
BTC isn't inflationary. If it were, two pizzas would cost 1000,000 btc today.

Some gullible suckers haven't figured out that currencies backed by ZERO - - such as the USD and bitcoins - - are intrinsically worthless and can be created out of thin air, as with USDs and the new bitcoin cash iteration.
There you go with intrinsic again. Do you not think that anything can have extrinsic value? Unless you are actually using it for something, that's all your gold has to you. Extrinsic value. Better throw it away now. lol


Once enough of the naive saps such as yourself get a clue and finally figure it out, the currency goes Zimbabwe back to it's intrinsic value of ZERO.
Yet you still gleefully use your "worthless" US fiat. Guess you must be one of the saps then too, huh?
 

Oldmansmith

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#67
Bitcoin is no different than the USD in the sense that both are intrinsically worthless and backed by absolutely ZERO.
Well, the US FRN may be worthless, but it is backed by the biggest military in the world and thousands of nuclear warheads, just ask people who tried to use an alternative currency like Ghadaffi or Saddam Hussein....oh never mind they are dead.
 

solarion

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#69
Funny you bring up Zimbabwe, Area51. I hear they are the biggest users of BTC, atm.
I dunno, the US is still pretty dominant, but you can just imagine how popular bitcoin could be amongst an "un-banked" majority population.

http://fiatleak.com/
 

Mujahideen

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#70
What do you suppose the reaction would be if $300 MILLION of USD vanished overnight from people's bank accounts?

Likely a bit more than what those poor suckers who lost all their crypto currency received.
What does this have to do with bitcoin?
 

solarion

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#71
What does this have to do with bitcoin?
Bitcoin is to blame for poorly coded Ethereum wallets...or hadn't you heard? Also bitcoin stole billions from MF Global investors...Corzine is just a patsy. Fight the powah!

Think to some of these fellers "bitcoin" is just a code word for every evil deed perpetrated by anyone having anything to do with crypto currencies. Every time a website robs itself...bitcoin. Everytime a corrupt exchange operator makes off with people's funds...again its that dastardly bitcoin that's to blame.
 
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#74
I went to a Bitcoin ATM this morning and put $20.00 cash in as an experiment. I got $17.41 in Bitcoins stored on my phone. That's 13%! It's a start. Now I am on a quest. Gotta find lower rates next.
 

solarion

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#75
According to this, average btc atm fees(December 2016) were 8.36% to buy and 5.37% to sell...which is still pretty high. Perhaps the one you were at is an outlier, or perhaps as I mentioned it was simply extracting the minimum fee to cover the transaction costs.

https://coinatmradar.com/blog/tag/fees-2/

Have you checked out localbitcoins for any sellers in your area? I've had tremendous success with that website over the years.
 
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#76
I'm searching. The ATM was in a shady area. A Western Union/checks cashed place that was open 24 hours. I'm going to try some more Bitcoin ATM's and also make a bigger purchase once I have a good feeling on all the buy and sell platforms. I'll make a bunch of wallets and make a spreadsheet to track it all with.
 

solarion

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#77

solarion

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#79
lol Really going out on a limb there x-ray homer. Anyway it's heading in the wrong direction, so it seems free bitcoin for all will have to wait.

Heck, even the poor, starving, hapless theoretical suckers that goldie was fretting about have now had ample opportunity to sell for a modest gain...despite buying into bitcoin at $6500. Good thing they bought bitcoin and not 6500 lottery tickets.